1.8 Battle Leveling

Mystikkal

what is 1.8? They never released it

mcurley

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

The changes to battle level basically turned Blackwater into the same 2-shot nonsense as veteran PvP. A lot of us don't like that, and so we stuck to Blackwater, which was has always been more balanced because player stats were normalized. If we wanted to play vet-like pvp, we could just go on veteran servers.

The new battle level is absolutely the worst thing to ever happen to pvp, in my opinion. The one option I had for balanced pvp is now gone. The only option now is pvp with a super low time-to-kill. There is no room for longer fights against evenly-matched opponents, where actual skill comes into play. It's all about the cheap shot. Screw 1.8 battle level. If you wanna play that way, go on vet servers. Please give us Blackwater back.

"2-shot nonsense" seems a bit over dramatic. I was able to hold off 3 gankers last night on my DK for about 5 minutes before reinforcements showed up and we wiped them. Keep in mind I've only played him for about 3 hours total in PvP so far so I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination. He is wearing blue quality everything and I have a whopping 60 CP now. I even got dangerously close to wiping them myself but they all had heals.

I think you might need to rethink your build/strategy if you are getting 2-shotted. Even my NB doesn't get 2-shotted and he's in full light armor.

vamp_emily

PvP might be having other issues as well:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/228698/ressources-issues-with-the-last-patch#latest

Alucardo

mcurley wrote: »

"2-shot nonsense" seems a bit over dramatic. I was able to hold off 3 gankers last night on my DK for about 5 minutes before reinforcements showed up and we wiped them. Keep in mind I've only played him for about 3 hours total in PvP so far so I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination. He is wearing blue quality everything and I have a whopping 60 CP now. I even got dangerously close to wiping them myself but they all had heals.

I think you might need to rethink your build/strategy if you are getting 2-shotted. Even my NB doesn't get 2-shotted and he's in full light armor.

He's actually not too far off the mark. My sorc runs all light armour and has near enough no defence with the lack of hardened ward. If I'm in a group, Healing Ward will almost never work on me, it'll bubble some random guy with full health.
I received a 9k heavy attack and 11k wrecking blow which 2 hit me while trying to defend a scroll.
I go back there to get feared, unable to break it, and within the duration of fear I was obliterated in one quick burst. The whole ordeal took about 1.5 seconds. I was literally dead before I could even think "wtf just happened".
I've taken my sorc out of BwB because it's just not viable with all the stam builds popping up since the update, and insane amount of DKs with flappy wings I've been seeing.
At first I was excited about this change. After playing it for a while, I'm not so sure it's a good thing on Blackwater.

mcurley

Alucardo wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

"2-shot nonsense" seems a bit over dramatic. I was able to hold off 3 gankers last night on my DK for about 5 minutes before reinforcements showed up and we wiped them. Keep in mind I've only played him for about 3 hours total in PvP so far so I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination. He is wearing blue quality everything and I have a whopping 60 CP now. I even got dangerously close to wiping them myself but they all had heals.

I think you might need to rethink your build/strategy if you are getting 2-shotted. Even my NB doesn't get 2-shotted and he's in full light armor.

He's actually not too far off the mark. My sorc runs all light armour and has near enough no defence with the lack of hardened ward. If I'm in a group, Healing Ward will almost never work on me, it'll bubble some random guy with full health.
I received a 9k heavy attack and 11k wrecking blow which 2 hit me while trying to defend a scroll.
I go back there to get feared, unable to break it, and within the duration of fear I was obliterated in one quick burst. The whole ordeal took about 1.5 seconds. I was literally dead before I could even think "wtf just happened".
I've taken my sorc out of BwB because it's just not viable with all the stam builds popping up since the update, and insane amount of DKs with flappy wings I've been seeing.
At first I was excited about this change. After playing it for a while, I'm not so sure it's a good thing on Blackwater.

Hopefully I don't feel the same way after I spend more time in there. I'm loving the magicka DK right now and his ability to survive has been awesome... so far. Maybe going full light armor is something you'll have to reconsider as a sorc without hardened ward. Dark Cloak makes it (7L) seem pretty viable as a magicka NB from the limited time I've spent on it.

It hasn't even been a week. Time will give us a better idea of what does and does not work well with these changes. Being able to actually make builds has been wonderful though.

mcurley

vamp_emily wrote: »

PvP might be having other issues as well:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/228698/ressources-issues-with-the-last-patch#latest

I have noticed that my magicka drains muuuch faster on my NB than it did pre-patch... even though I have tons more of it and even more regen. My low lvl DK sustains resources like a boss somehow... maybe the cost of skills isn't scaling right or something.

Cody

vamp_emily wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

This is not WoW where a max level player can one shot low level people and camp the quest hubs, making it impossible for lower level players to play, everyone has a fair shot in this game; that is not a bad thing.

I never said it was WoW; I have never played that game. But I still believe what I stated; someone new should have a chance but not have everything given to them.

So I am guessing you don't believe in progression, and think we should remove leveling, remove cp, remove gold and just see who is the best button pusher?

and I am guessing you are a close minded judgmental extremist who thinks that the poor should be allowed to starve while the rich profit off of it?

Hurt didn't it?

You have never played WoW? let me explain what I said.

In WoW, there is open world PvP, meaning you can gank near quest hubs. a Max level player is allowed to fight a low level player in woWs open world PvP. when such an instance occurs, the low level player cannot do quests or progress, meaning they cannot play, meaning the game is not fun. I cited WoW as an example of what I was trying to say. You want to see what PvP without battle leveling would be like? go play WoW for a week ro two. Once the quest area you are in gets camped by a max level player that literally one shots you and whom you cant even hit and stand no chance against, you will understand. thankfully though, you can turn it off, so its not hopeless, but it takes time to flip off, meaning you will end up sitting there bored for X amount of time just to be able to play.

That is almost exactly what would happen to new people in ESO if battle leveling was removed. ITs not as bad here because they would have Pve to be forced into as a sort of fall back; but not everyone wants to play PvE, and should not be forced to do so because of the existence of max level players

I am not saying a low level character should get everything. I said they should have a shot, no matter how small. there is nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. You as a max level player will still have better gear and far more experience. It will not kill you for your low level opponents to receive some help.

Well, the patch for me has made me want to go get some CP, and definitely look at my build.

But for the record I am not closed minded; and I do have experience in PvP. One character went from level 10-50, other character I am currently playing went from level 10-46, and I have a new character that went from level 10-14 all just by playing PvP.

So when people say there is an unfair advantage its hard for me to agree. I don't concentrate on 1v1, I just help my alliance and work as a team. In most battles in BwB, not all players are going to be level 49, so levels really balances out in group fights.

I will adapt the the changes, but it is kind of hard for me to agree with the changes when some level 11 can beat me down in 5 hits even when i am wearing all purple/crafted/enchanted gear at level 47. To me that's like fighting Molag Bal at level 11 and winning.

I have no idea how a level 11 can be killing you in 5 hits with level 47 gear. I am not criticizing your skill, simply expressing curiosity.

frozywozy

vamp_emily wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

This is not WoW where a max level player can one shot low level people and camp the quest hubs, making it impossible for lower level players to play, everyone has a fair shot in this game; that is not a bad thing.

I never said it was WoW; I have never played that game. But I still believe what I stated; someone new should have a chance but not have everything given to them.

So I am guessing you don't believe in progression, and think we should remove leveling, remove cp, remove gold and just see who is the best button pusher?

and I am guessing you are a close minded judgmental extremist who thinks that the poor should be allowed to starve while the rich profit off of it?

Hurt didn't it?

You have never played WoW? let me explain what I said.

In WoW, there is open world PvP, meaning you can gank near quest hubs. a Max level player is allowed to fight a low level player in woWs open world PvP. when such an instance occurs, the low level player cannot do quests or progress, meaning they cannot play, meaning the game is not fun. I cited WoW as an example of what I was trying to say. You want to see what PvP without battle leveling would be like? go play WoW for a week ro two. Once the quest area you are in gets camped by a max level player that literally one shots you and whom you cant even hit and stand no chance against, you will understand. thankfully though, you can turn it off, so its not hopeless, but it takes time to flip off, meaning you will end up sitting there bored for X amount of time just to be able to play.

That is almost exactly what would happen to new people in ESO if battle leveling was removed. ITs not as bad here because they would have Pve to be forced into as a sort of fall back; but not everyone wants to play PvE, and should not be forced to do so because of the existence of max level players

I am not saying a low level character should get everything. I said they should have a shot, no matter how small. there is nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. You as a max level player will still have better gear and far more experience. It will not kill you for your low level opponents to receive some help.

Well, the patch for me has made me want to go get some CP, and definitely look at my build.

But for the record I am not closed minded; and I do have experience in PvP. One character went from level 10-50, other character I am currently playing went from level 10-46, and I have a new character that went from level 10-14 all just by playing PvP.

So when people say there is an unfair advantage its hard for me to agree. I don't concentrate on 1v1, I just help my alliance and work as a team. In most battles in BwB, not all players are going to be level 49, so levels really balances out in group fights.

I will adapt the the changes, but it is kind of hard for me to agree with the changes when some level 11 can beat me down in 5 hits even when i am wearing all purple/crafted/enchanted gear at level 47. To me that's like fighting Molag Bal at level 11 and winning.

With the new champion cap, it is a pretty big nerf already to low levels who used to be godmode if they had excessive amount of CPs. I am pretty satisfied with that nerf to be honest.

Alucardo wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

"2-shot nonsense" seems a bit over dramatic. I was able to hold off 3 gankers last night on my DK for about 5 minutes before reinforcements showed up and we wiped them. Keep in mind I've only played him for about 3 hours total in PvP so far so I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination. He is wearing blue quality everything and I have a whopping 60 CP now. I even got dangerously close to wiping them myself but they all had heals.

I think you might need to rethink your build/strategy if you are getting 2-shotted. Even my NB doesn't get 2-shotted and he's in full light armor.

He's actually not too far off the mark. My sorc runs all light armour and has near enough no defence with the lack of hardened ward. If I'm in a group, Healing Ward will almost never work on me, it'll bubble some random guy with full health.
I received a 9k heavy attack and 11k wrecking blow which 2 hit me while trying to defend a scroll.
I go back there to get feared, unable to break it, and within the duration of fear I was obliterated in one quick burst. The whole ordeal took about 1.5 seconds. I was literally dead before I could even think "wtf just happened".
I've taken my sorc out of BwB because it's just not viable with all the stam builds popping up since the update, and insane amount of DKs with flappy wings I've been seeing.
At first I was excited about this change. After playing it for a while, I'm not so sure it's a good thing on Blackwater.

The heavy attack + wrecking blow combo is a known bug. I see alot of people using it from stealth landing 2 hits at once. It's very cheesy and I hope they fix it soon. I don't use it though.

Gunphu

Its a bad thing when you feel punished for hitting VR14 because the battle leveled stats are unachievable as VR14 (which is what its based on). You are weaker because you progressed. The HP is way too high for battle leveled toons!

As an example nearly all my STA sorcs stats stayed the same but HP dropped by 14k by hitting VR14. Sure My sta went up by 4k but thats a *** trade off.

Sublime

I'm not sure how you guys play, but if you run a squishy build expect to get twoshot. Personally I can tank a v16 sniper on my v5 templar for quite some time, and the lower the attacker's level the easier it gets. Yes I can't kill anybody, but that's not what I'm supposed to do as a tank. I guess something in-between would be ideal for lower characters.

LegendaryChef

Thought I'd add a personal experience from the new battle level. Was grinding the sewers on my v4 Templar the other night when I was in the middle of the mobs and 2 seconds later a v16 EP Nightblade jumped on me. I pooped myself as usual and immediately focused most of my the Nb. The fight went on for maybe a minute or so and after killing the mobs I had pulled and sweeping up the poor NBs body I returned back to base in one piece with his 3k stones in my back pocket.

Battle levelling OP.
Or Templar, I'm not sure.

josh.lackey_ESO

Sublime wrote: »

I'm not sure how you guys play, but if you run a squishy build expect to get twoshot. Personally I can tank a v16 sniper on my v5 templar for quite some time, and the lower the attacker's level the easier it gets. Yes I can't kill anybody, but that's not what I'm supposed to do as a tank. I guess something in-between would be ideal for lower characters.

Blackwater hasn't worked that way in 1.6 or 1.7. I am not sure about 1.5 and before. But this is radically different from the way it's been the past 8 months. I don't agree with you that anyone should "expect" to get two-shot unless they make a tank.

They added 50% to everyone's damage and took 50% from everyone's health. Fights in general are just way too short at the moment. They went from absurdly long in 1.7 to absurdly short in 1.8. Can we get something in the middle, please?

The main issue I have is with gear scaling. To be competitive now, you have to have fully-enchanted set gear, and you have to replace it every few levels. It's honestly too much work to try and get a new armor set every other day because you level past your old one. Sure, you can save it for another toon, but inventory management is already hard enough without needed to come up with another 100+ slots for level-up pvp gear. If you just do normal questing, whatever random gear you put together is usually sufficient. Everyone's stats used to be normalized and gear didn't matter so much. It was less about how twinked out you were and more about how good you were. We complained about CP imbalance before, but the gear scaling has made it twice as bad.

It also makes the end-of-campaign rewards kindof useless. A Master weapon that is decent for a a couple days, then you level past it... what's the point, even? Gear level used to scale up, what gives? They made food and drink scale up, but now gear doesn't?

My main complaint is that blackwater play just like veteran pvp. If I wanted low time-to-kill fights, I could always go play vet. Blackwater was another option for what many thought was more balanced pvp. Now that's totally rekt. It's really personal preference, but now there is only the one option. Those of us who liked Blackwater because it was different gameplay now have NO option. I know that's a minority of players, but the number of folks who reroll non-vets to play in Blackwater is definitely not trivial. We don't like vet pvp gameplay. So what do we do now?

Johngo0036

I have my magicka NB lvl 22 now on BWB,

I have 37k Magicka
19.5k health
12k stam,
3k magicka regen
2.1k spell dmg,
40% spell crit,

I am running
5 pce warlock
5 pce julianos

I am gonna change my enchants on jewelry to spelldmg today and see what a difference it will make,

Master kas,
Think i ran into you and your homies yesterday.... your char name is Kas if i am right....
the 3 of you rekt me..

lol..

Sublime

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

I'm not sure how you guys play, but if you run a squishy build expect to get twoshot. Personally I can tank a v16 sniper on my v5 templar for quite some time, and the lower the attacker's level the easier it gets. Yes I can't kill anybody, but that's not what I'm supposed to do as a tank. I guess something in-between would be ideal for lower characters.

Blackwater hasn't worked that way in 1.6 or 1.7. I am not sure about 1.5 and before. But this is radically different from the way it's been the past 8 months. I don't agree with you that anyone should "expect" to get two-shot unless they make a tank.

They added 50% to everyone's damage and took 50% from everyone's health. Fights in general are just way too short at the moment. They went from absurdly long in 1.7 to absurdly short in 1.8. Can we get something in the middle, please?

The main issue I have is with gear scaling. To be competitive now, you have to have fully-enchanted set gear, and you have to replace it every few levels. It's honestly too much work to try and get a new armor set every other day because you level past your old one. Sure, you can save it for another toon, but inventory management is already hard enough without needed to come up with another 100+ slots for level-up pvp gear. If you just do normal questing, whatever random gear you put together is usually sufficient. Everyone's stats used to be normalized and gear didn't matter so much. It was less about how twinked out you were and more about how good you were. We complained about CP imbalance before, but the gear scaling has made it twice as bad.

It also makes the end-of-campaign rewards kindof useless. A Master weapon that is decent for a a couple days, then you level past it... what's the point, even? Gear level used to scale up, what gives? They made food and drink scale up, but now gear doesn't?

My main complaint is that blackwater play just like veteran pvp. If I wanted low time-to-kill fights, I could always go play vet. Blackwater was another option for what many thought was more balanced pvp. Now that's totally rekt. It's really personal preference, but now there is only the one option. Those of us who liked Blackwater because it was different gameplay now have NO option. I know that's a minority of players, but the number of folks who reroll non-vets to play in Blackwater is definitely not trivial. We don't like vet pvp gameplay. So what do we do now?

I agree that the can be TTK way to short with certain setups, but that's not a problem of Battle Level, but rather of PvP in general.

Scyantific

My lvl 40 Imperial Stamina Sorcerer is pretty much a murder machine now.

21k Health
33k Stamina
11k Magicka

3.3k Weapon Damage
2.2k Stamina Recovery

vamp_emily

Since the update I am no longer enjoying PvP, I used to spend 4 hours a night in PvP, since Monday I have only spent like 2 hours there total. Not fun at all.

Sad.. just Sad.

mcurley

So 4 nights in now, playing a couple hours a night and I have still not been murdered in any way that I felt was way too fast as other people are saying is happening to them. I'm still waiting for that 2-hit wombo-combo out of nowhere that I've seen talked about, but it hasn't come.

I did get smacked pretty hard with a WB that took about 1/3 of my NBs health while I was stealthed waiting for resource regeneration but the guy tried a second WB in a row so I just walked through it and melted him with one skill rotation.

Cloak ---> Concealed Weapon ---> Cloak ---> heavy attack + Incapacitating Strike ---> Cloak ---> heavy attack + Impale... dead. Apparently he didn't know how to block either.

I also had a different stam NB try to gank my DK. I guess he wasn't paying attention or something because he started his assault right after I had finished a defensive skill rotation (which is glaringly obvious on a DK, right?) so I was fully buffed and his initial attack barely got past my Igneous Shield. He also died in a timely fashion while trying to WB spam me over and over...

Maybe I'm only finding scrubs to fight. =/

vamp_emily

mcurley wrote: »

So 4 nights in now, playing a couple hours a night and I have still not been murdered in any way that I felt was way too fast as other people are saying is happening to them. I'm still waiting for that 2-hit wombo-combo out of nowhere that I've seen talked about, but it hasn't come.

I did get smacked pretty hard with a WB that took about 1/3 of my NBs health while I was stealthed waiting for resource regeneration but the guy tried a second WB in a row so I just walked through it and melted him with one skill rotation.

Cloak ---> Concealed Weapon ---> Cloak ---> heavy attack + Incapacitating Strike ---> Cloak ---> heavy attack + Impale... dead. Apparently he didn't know how to block either.

I also had a different stam NB try to gank my DK. I guess he wasn't paying attention or something because he started his assault right after I had finished a defensive skill rotation (which is glaringly obvious on a DK, right?) so I was fully buffed and his initial attack barely got past my Igneous Shield. He also died in a timely fashion while trying to WB spam me over and over...

Maybe I'm only finding scrubs to fight. =/

Curious what level are you playing?

Edit:
And do you have any CP?

mcurley

vamp_emily wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

So 4 nights in now, playing a couple hours a night and I have still not been murdered in any way that I felt was way too fast as other people are saying is happening to them. I'm still waiting for that 2-hit wombo-combo out of nowhere that I've seen talked about, but it hasn't come.

I did get smacked pretty hard with a WB that took about 1/3 of my NBs health while I was stealthed waiting for resource regeneration but the guy tried a second WB in a row so I just walked through it and melted him with one skill rotation.

Cloak ---> Concealed Weapon ---> Cloak ---> heavy attack + Incapacitating Strike ---> Cloak ---> heavy attack + Impale... dead. Apparently he didn't know how to block either.

I also had a different stam NB try to gank my DK. I guess he wasn't paying attention or something because he started his assault right after I had finished a defensive skill rotation (which is glaringly obvious on a DK, right?) so I was fully buffed and his initial attack barely got past my Igneous Shield. He also died in a timely fashion while trying to WB spam me over and over...

Maybe I'm only finding scrubs to fight. =/

Curious what level are you playing?

Edit:
And do you have any CP?

I laid out both of my builds on page one of this thread.

I have 60 CP.


I don't play for hours at a time so it is entirely possible that I've just been lucky (or unlucky imo) with my encounters

vamp_emily

Me: Rank 13 ( DC Sergeant Grade 1 ) and Level 48

Everyone has the right to their own opinion. You can assume that I don't know how to play or whatever. I have no problems fighting bosses outside of Cyro. I am good in teams and i think i am an exceptional player.

I have really never complained about difficulty in this game before and i can handle most stuff but these new changes really really suck bad ( non-vet PvP ), and is making me want to quit the game.

I don't know what the problem is. I think it might be characters that have High CP and are low level that get some kind of battle leveling buff plus a 50% damage reduction. I don't know. But I am getting killed by low rank players. The last fight before I began writing this lasted 4 seconds and the person who killed me was level 15.

All my magic and stam are drained so fast It never really comes back unless i sit it out.. which is too late when you are in a fight.

I have all purple armor on (whitestrake and Hundington), purple weapons. 2 pieces of Nirnhoned, and the rest are Impenetrable.

The only solution I can think of is, go out and grind 500CP and then come back and play and see how it is. But right now, this sucks bad.

Yes this is a crying post. Ugh, back to the game to get my tush hurt.

DezIsDead

Cody wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

This is not WoW where a max level player can one shot low level people and camp the quest hubs, making it impossible for lower level players to play, everyone has a fair shot in this game; that is not a bad thing.

I never said it was WoW; I have never played that game. But I still believe what I stated; someone new should have a chance but not have everything given to them.

So I am guessing you don't believe in progression, and think we should remove leveling, remove cp, remove gold and just see who is the best button pusher?

and I am guessing you are a close minded judgmental extremist who thinks that the poor should be allowed to starve while the rich profit off of it?

Hurt didn't it?

You have never played WoW? let me explain what I said.

In WoW, there is open world PvP, meaning you can gank near quest hubs. a Max level player is allowed to fight a low level player in woWs open world PvP. when such an instance occurs, the low level player cannot do quests or progress, meaning they cannot play, meaning the game is not fun. I cited WoW as an example of what I was trying to say. You want to see what PvP without battle leveling would be like? go play WoW for a week ro two. Once the quest area you are in gets camped by a max level player that literally one shots you and whom you cant even hit and stand no chance against, you will understand. thankfully though, you can turn it off, so its not hopeless, but it takes time to flip off, meaning you will end up sitting there bored for X amount of time just to be able to play.

That is almost exactly what would happen to new people in ESO if battle leveling was removed. ITs not as bad here because they would have Pve to be forced into as a sort of fall back; but not everyone wants to play PvE, and should not be forced to do so because of the existence of max level players

I am not saying a low level character should get everything. I said they should have a shot, no matter how small. there is nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. You as a max level player will still have better gear and far more experience. It will not kill you for your low level opponents to receive some help.

i love games like that tho, i remember on my sith sorc in SWTOR i would sit and wait for people coming to gank lvl 35 questers, and i would destroy them. was boring but it passed the time as i folded my laundry.

JaJaLuka

Sublime wrote: »

xskinzcity wrote: »

Battle level can screw off. The weak should stay weak and the strong should stay strong.

Ever played as a level 10 in Cyrodiil without Battle Leveling?

Yes lol

Sublime

JaJaLuka wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

xskinzcity wrote: »

Battle level can screw off. The weak should stay weak and the strong should stay strong.

Ever played as a level 10 in Cyrodiil without Battle Leveling?

Yes lol

How was it?