Mercenary Motif - Hope your crafter is ready to run dungeons...

Glory

So my crafters are not my main characters. They have rank 9 in Blacksmithing, Woodworking, Clothing, etc. I was unhappy that I needed to teach my main characters the mercenary motif so I'd have a chance at obtaining bound laurels (style item), but figured the 50% chance they assured us would make this okay.

Now I am finding that my main character(s) cannot even learn the motif, so I'm stuck not being able to have any chance of obtaining laurels unless I grind my main character's crafting? Is this really a thing?

Glory

To refer to their comments on this:

MSchroeder wrote: »

Finally, we’ve seen lots of talk about how the Laurels will only drop for characters who know at least one chapter of the style. One thing we didn’t mention in the patch notes, however, is that this is not a simple 0%-100% scale – while knowing zero chapters of the style does mean you won’t ever see a Laurel, having just one chapter means that final bosses from Veteran Dungeon will have a 50% chance to drop a Laurel for you. From there, it scales up linearly to 100% (approx. +4% per chapter). Note that the drop rate of Laurels from final bosses in Normal Dungeons Laurel is always 1/4th of their Veteran counterparts.

If you’re concerned that you now have to get your crafting character suited up and ready for dungeons, consider this: With just one chapter under your belt – likely obtained after only a day’s worth of Pledges – your most Undaunted character will be getting a Laurel about every other run through a Veteran Dungeon.

@MSchroeder I am fine with having my most undaunted character having a 50% chance to get a Laurel, but I can't even use the motifs!!

MissBizz

Why can you not learn the motif? Do you need rank 10? If so, why not just do some decon and raise ONE craft to rank 10, then learn the page?

Nestor

MissBizz wrote: »

Why can you not learn the motif? Do you need rank 10? If so, why not just do some decon and raise ONE craft to rank 10, then learn the page?

I think they need to be L50 in the craft in order to set a material level to 10. So it's not just a little decon that needs to be done if they ignored crafting on their undaunted character or dungeon runners.

MissBizz

Nestor wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Why can you not learn the motif? Do you need rank 10? If so, why not just do some decon and raise ONE craft to rank 10, then learn the page?

I think they need to be L50 in the craft in order to set a material level to 10. So it's not just a little decon that needs to be done if they ignored crafting on their undaunted character or dungeon runners.

Ack, I may have misunderstood. I thought that you had rank 9 on your mains but rank 10 on crafters. Sorry if your case is as Nestor thinks. That is rough. I had been levelling up my main for some time in all crafts in preparation for something like this (I just never put ANY skill points into it - until now) so I understand how you are completely frustrated. My crafter DEFINITELY isn't in any shape to be running a vet dungeon...

Glory

Nestor wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Why can you not learn the motif? Do you need rank 10? If so, why not just do some decon and raise ONE craft to rank 10, then learn the page?

I think they need to be L50 in the craft in order to set a material level to 10. So it's not just a little decon that needs to be done if they ignored crafting on their undaunted character or dungeon runners.

Yeah, this is pretty much my frustration. I have everyone at 32 (for hirelings) but most of my leveled characters are at 32 and not 50.

Quite annoying.

Jura23

Has anybody pics of this motif?

Lithium Flower

Can we please raise the profile of the motif problems?

It is like they have decided to shaft everyone who has alts of any kind in every conceivable way with these drops and for no discernible reason.

If you don't craft but like to farm- you're screwed because laurels are BoP and you can't sell them.
If you do craft but don't run pledges - you're screwed because you can't buy laurels for your trade.
If you do craft but have alts you'd rather play - you're screwed because you can't get laurels.

The only person who is left is someone who has only one character and also likes to craft.

Mercenary pages should simply be an rare drop from daily chests and laurels from vet bosses. Sell the motif on the crownstore for people who prefer to buy it there. Done. No Problems of any kind. Lots of happy people running pledges for valuable loot.

Laurels have to be BoP to be compatible with crownstore? Why not just make a unique BoP 'Crown Laurel' item instead of this convoluted, clumsy and unrewarding mechanic?

mike.eso

Anyone have a pics of the motif yet? Lets see if its even worth putting up with the nonsense collectible mechanic or if we should just wait for the crowns tore release.

Scyantific

Heavy Mercenary looks like Dawnguard Armor from Skyrim so it's pretty cool in my book already.

Evandus

Sorry if I'm not understanding the problem correctly in advance...

But if the items are BoP, couldn't you just transfer them to your crafter to use through your bank?

MissBizz

Evandus wrote: »

Sorry if I'm not understanding the problem correctly in advance...

But if the items are BoP, couldn't you just transfer them to your crafter to use through your bank?

@Evandus yes, that is true - although that's not where the problem lies.

Main Character: Dungeon Runner. No/low crafting. With knowing NO motifs you have a slim chance to find the stone needed to craft the motif. Sure, learning just one page will shoot your chances way up - BUT you are unable to learn the page because you never levelled crafting on that character.

Crafter: Can easily learn the pages and therefore would have a high chance of getting the stone drop... but this character is not well geared nor are they likely very stong because all your SP are into crafting (if your plan for this character was JUST crafter all along, you probably never levelled them higher than you needed to - JUST enough to have enough SP to cover crafting)

Not everyone has this set up for sure. Although I am someone who does. Fortunately I thought awhile ago I should probably level my main's crafting skills just in case, but lots of people haven't bothered. So you're kind of stuck. You either need to level that crafter and start running dungeons, or level up your main's crafting so you can learn pages (which are mostly useless - since you probably haven't been researching traits) just to get the stone to drop more.

As I mentioned, obviously LOTS of people have crafting splits between characters and such so this won't be an issue for them, but if someone had a dedicated crafter, it's a bit of a bummer.

[EDIT] So now I'm preparing for the future, and planning to go into Orsinium tomorrow with my WEAK crafter (I can count how many passives I have unlocked on my VR2 on one hand) just to level her up (and because she has a chance to find VR15/16 mats)... and to future proof.

Evandus

MissBizz wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

Sorry if I'm not understanding the problem correctly in advance...

But if the items are BoP, couldn't you just transfer them to your crafter to use through your bank?

@Evandus yes, that is true - although that's not where the problem lies.

Main Character: Dungeon Runner. No/low crafting. With knowing NO motifs you have a slim chance to find the stone needed to craft the motif. Sure, learning just one page will shoot your chances way up - BUT you are unable to learn the page because you never levelled crafting on that character.

Crafter: Can easily learn the pages and therefore would have a high chance of getting the stone drop... but this character is not well geared nor are they likely very stong because all your SP are into crafting (if your plan for this character was JUST crafter all along, you probably never levelled them higher than you needed to - JUST enough to have enough SP to cover crafting)

Not everyone has this set up for sure. Although I am someone who does. Fortunately I thought awhile ago I should probably level my main's crafting skills just in case, but lots of people haven't bothered. So you're kind of stuck. You either need to level that crafter and start running dungeons, or level up your main's crafting so you can learn pages (which are mostly useless - since you probably haven't been researching traits) just to get the stone to drop more.

As I mentioned, obviously LOTS of people have crafting splits between characters and such so this won't be an issue for them, but if someone had a dedicated crafter, it's a bit of a bummer.

Understood.

I have one character that does all of my crafting, except provisioning. My main, a tank, has that maxxed out. I can see where things would be problematic though. Seems like decon items are about to become a lot more valuable to resell...

MissBizz

Evandus wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

Sorry if I'm not understanding the problem correctly in advance...

But if the items are BoP, couldn't you just transfer them to your crafter to use through your bank?

@Evandus yes, that is true - although that's not where the problem lies.

Main Character: Dungeon Runner. No/low crafting. With knowing NO motifs you have a slim chance to find the stone needed to craft the motif. Sure, learning just one page will shoot your chances way up - BUT you are unable to learn the page because you never levelled crafting on that character.

Crafter: Can easily learn the pages and therefore would have a high chance of getting the stone drop... but this character is not well geared nor are they likely very stong because all your SP are into crafting (if your plan for this character was JUST crafter all along, you probably never levelled them higher than you needed to - JUST enough to have enough SP to cover crafting)

Not everyone has this set up for sure. Although I am someone who does. Fortunately I thought awhile ago I should probably level my main's crafting skills just in case, but lots of people haven't bothered. So you're kind of stuck. You either need to level that crafter and start running dungeons, or level up your main's crafting so you can learn pages (which are mostly useless - since you probably haven't been researching traits) just to get the stone to drop more.

As I mentioned, obviously LOTS of people have crafting splits between characters and such so this won't be an issue for them, but if someone had a dedicated crafter, it's a bit of a bummer.

Understood.

I have one character that does all of my crafting, except provisioning. My main, a tank, has that maxxed out. I can see where things would be problematic though. Seems like decon items are about to become a lot more valuable to resell...

@Evandus is the style stone available to be deconned from somewhere? I honestly don't know. I know the ancient orc one has items you can decon for the stone - but haven't heard for mercenary. As far as I have seen the mercenary motif style stone (laurels) are bound.. therefore you can't sell or buy them. I could be totally wrong though.

Evandus

MissBizz wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

Sorry if I'm not understanding the problem correctly in advance...

But if the items are BoP, couldn't you just transfer them to your crafter to use through your bank?

@Evandus yes, that is true - although that's not where the problem lies.

Main Character: Dungeon Runner. No/low crafting. With knowing NO motifs you have a slim chance to find the stone needed to craft the motif. Sure, learning just one page will shoot your chances way up - BUT you are unable to learn the page because you never levelled crafting on that character.

Crafter: Can easily learn the pages and therefore would have a high chance of getting the stone drop... but this character is not well geared nor are they likely very stong because all your SP are into crafting (if your plan for this character was JUST crafter all along, you probably never levelled them higher than you needed to - JUST enough to have enough SP to cover crafting)

Not everyone has this set up for sure. Although I am someone who does. Fortunately I thought awhile ago I should probably level my main's crafting skills just in case, but lots of people haven't bothered. So you're kind of stuck. You either need to level that crafter and start running dungeons, or level up your main's crafting so you can learn pages (which are mostly useless - since you probably haven't been researching traits) just to get the stone to drop more.

As I mentioned, obviously LOTS of people have crafting splits between characters and such so this won't be an issue for them, but if someone had a dedicated crafter, it's a bit of a bummer.

Understood.

I have one character that does all of my crafting, except provisioning. My main, a tank, has that maxxed out. I can see where things would be problematic though. Seems like decon items are about to become a lot more valuable to resell...

@Evandus is the style stone available to be deconned from somewhere? I honestly don't know. I know the ancient orc one has items you can decon for the stone - but haven't heard for mercenary. As far as I have seen the mercenary motif style stone (laurels) are bound.. therefore you can't sell or buy them. I could be totally wrong though.

If there is, I haven't yet heard or read about it yet.

My apologies, I was referring moreso to an anticipated rush to decon items to level their crafting ranks actually.

Love_Chunks

Yup both of my crafters are ready. Good thing i planned ahead and fully fleshed them out.

Turelus

Still a dumb idea on how to set up crafting IMO, there was plenty of feedback about how/why this was bad on the PTS but ZOS didn't listen/care.

Guess I should just be glad I craft on my main in all crafts, shame I have to spend all that SP there though.

Palidon

ZOS the way you have set this up is bull. The Laurels should be readily available from merchants like the Orc, Altmer, Imperial etc. All that should be needed to use the laurels is the knowledge of the style and any character should be able to acquire them whether they know the style or not. Why should a player be forced into completing the undaunted pledges over and over again to get the laurels? I for one am sick and tired of doing the undaunted pledges. The loot that drops from completing them are a joke most times and and after doing them god knows how many times I know what is around the corner in every delve and the challenge is gone.

With the introduction of Craglorn you have went 100 degrees in a different direction when it comes to acquiring crafting materials and their respective motifs and laurels which in my opinion and many others is totally way out of line. All you want folks to do is repeat the same content over and over again in hopes of finding what they need and the chances are slim to none. Why introduce new armor and weapons motifs then make it almost impossible to acquire everything you need. Another example is the new Akivari style armor and weapons. Some of the motif pages cost 500,000 alliance points others 250,000. The mats cost 5000 alliance points each and you need 10 to make one laurel.

Wake up and smell the roses you are destroying your game with the ridiculous way you are having players acquire the materials and you are not making your game fun to play. You should of provided another option for players to choose in acquiring the motifs and respective laurels to craft the pieces.

The ZOS brain child that dreamed this one up needs his or her head examined.

Have a nice day

Nestor

I have become resigned that there are Motifs I will never learn. Dwemer was bad enough, but the last two or three motifs are just too much of a bother to learn. Or to get style materials for.

Weberda

MissBizz wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

Sorry if I'm not understanding the problem correctly in advance...

But if the items are BoP, couldn't you just transfer them to your crafter to use through your bank?

@Evandus yes, that is true - although that's not where the problem lies.

Main Character: Dungeon Runner. No/low crafting. With knowing NO motifs you have a slim chance to find the stone needed to craft the motif. Sure, learning just one page will shoot your chances way up - BUT you are unable to learn the page because you never levelled crafting on that character.

Crafter: Can easily learn the pages and therefore would have a high chance of getting the stone drop... but this character is not well geared nor are they likely very stong because all your SP are into crafting (if your plan for this character was JUST crafter all along, you probably never levelled them higher than you needed to - JUST enough to have enough SP to cover crafting)

Not everyone has this set up for sure. Although I am someone who does. Fortunately I thought awhile ago I should probably level my main's crafting skills just in case, but lots of people haven't bothered. So you're kind of stuck. You either need to level that crafter and start running dungeons, or level up your main's crafting so you can learn pages (which are mostly useless - since you probably haven't been researching traits) just to get the stone to drop more.

As I mentioned, obviously LOTS of people have crafting splits between characters and such so this won't be an issue for them, but if someone had a dedicated crafter, it's a bit of a bummer.

Understood.

I have one character that does all of my crafting, except provisioning. My main, a tank, has that maxxed out. I can see where things would be problematic though. Seems like decon items are about to become a lot more valuable to resell...

@Evandus is the style stone available to be deconned from somewhere? I honestly don't know. I know the ancient orc one has items you can decon for the stone - but haven't heard for mercenary. As far as I have seen the mercenary motif style stone (laurels) are bound.. therefore you can't sell or buy them. I could be totally wrong though.

The only thing that could a laurel from a decon would be a piece of Mercenary armor and I doubt they would drop anyway even if they exist. I have deconned tons of armor since Wrothgar dropped and not seen any. On the German forum ZOS basically admitted that the entire mechanic was designed to facilitate the selling of the style mat in the Crown Store. That obviously wouldn't work if they dropped from multiple sources.

Tholian1

Orsinium is a solo zone, yet we are forced into group dungeon runs for a crafting style material. Why is crafting now being tied to group play?

Weberda

Tholian1 wrote: »

Orsinium is a solo zone, yet we are forced into group dungeon runs for a crafting style material. Why is crafting now being tied to group play?

A group is not necessary for those dungeons but you do need to be a fairly competent player to get through them All of the bosses including the events can be complete solo.

code65536

Tholian1 wrote: »

Orsinium is a solo zone, yet we are forced into group dungeon runs for a crafting style material. Why is crafting now being tied to group play?

Mercenary and Akaviri were part of the base game update. They are not part of the Orsinium DLC, and they're available in-game to anyone, regardless of whether they have Orsinium. It just so happens that they were added alongside Orsinium, but they're not a part of it.

In any case, there were three styles added. Akaviri, which requires PvP to get, Mercenary, which requires PvE group content to get, and Ancient Orc, which is part of Orsinium. Looks like they added one style of each style of play.

I think this is entirely fair. Plus, it's ridiculously easy to get Mercenary chapters and style mats (much easier than any of the other chapter-split styles); I had learned all 14 chapters on the first day, and acquired 26 laurels over the first week. No other chaptered crafting style--not even Dwemer--comes remotely close to that kind of ease.

Tholian1

code65536 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Orsinium is a solo zone, yet we are forced into group dungeon runs for a crafting style material. Why is crafting now being tied to group play?

Mercenary and Akaviri were part of the base game update. They are not part of the Orsinium DLC, and they're available in-game to anyone, regardless of whether they have Orsinium. It just so happens that they were added alongside Orsinium, but they're not a part of it.

In any case, there were three styles added. Akaviri, which requires PvP to get, Mercenary, which requires PvE group content to get, and Ancient Orc, which is part of Orsinium. Looks like they added one style of each style of play.

I think this is entirely fair. Plus, it's ridiculously easy to get Mercenary chapters and style mats (much easier than any of the other chapter-split styles); I had learned all 14 chapters on the first day, and acquired 26 laurels over the first week. No other chaptered crafting style--not even Dwemer--comes remotely close to that kind of ease.

How am I supposed to get the style mats without being forced to group for dungeon runs? I didn't put all my skill points into crafting so I could run dungeons.

Please rush this crap to the Crown Store, ZOS. My wallet awaits, just like you want.

gbsteve

I think that's why skyshards were incorporated into the game. So you can just go get more skill points if you're lacking. Too many people want the easy button.

Kwivur

I've been junking Laurels... I don't think they should be bound.

Tholian1

gbsteve wrote: »

I think that's why skyshards were incorporated into the game. So you can just go get more skill points if you're lacking. Too many people want the easy button.

It has nothing to do with wanting an easy button. I invested a lot of time working on my crafting skills. It is about forcing a certain style of gameplay on people. I despise running dungeons. I enjoy crafting, which is why I invested so heavily in it.

Really beginning to hate all the decisions coming out of ZOS lately.

Lithium Flower

I have a crafter in DC where I first started playing with 90% of his considerable skill points invested into Crafting and 9 traits learned as well as all motifs and recipes. I also had 4 v16s of every flavour in EP where all my current group of friends play. I enjoyed being able to craft for myself and my friends. We ran several pledges every night, played in IC sewers and PvPed when it wasn't too laggy. I was happy.

I resolved to level my crafter up to be able to run dungeons through cross-faction grouping when I heard about it. More pledge runs - yay! I was excited to be able to run pledges regularly with my friends on even more characters or so I thought. I was looking forward to playing more. I leveled up the crafter fully, the skills I might need, acquired more skill points, I invested in the DLC when it launched, now I have yet another v16 and my options for playing have never been more limited.

I haven't taken 'shortcuts' (whatever that means). I haven't 'cheated'. I've done Cadwell Silver and Gold and spent hundreds of hours in the company of NPCs instead of real people I care about.

Two weeks into Orsinium, I have only 1 laurel to show for my effort. Playing cross-faction through the grouping tool is so incredibly random and inconvenient that we've barely managed to group together once and the incremental update has made it even worse (tired of the randomness, I had a pre-made group of my alts that I had set up through a lot of effort so I could log into an EP character, invite my friends, log back into my DC character for a dungeon. The new update inexplicably dissolved the group. Do I need to apologise for 'exploiting' grouping mechanics to play dungeons with my friends instead of randoms? I'm incredibly sorry. Truly I am.).

Why introduce cross-faction play in such a ridiculously convoluted way that it destroys any incentive to try to play together?

I like the mercenary style. My friends like the style. I want to craft for myself and for them. I know 100% of the motif. I run multiple pIedges every night. I haven't been able to craft a single item for anyone.

Why aren't laurels tradeable so if someone wants me to craft for them, I can ask them to provide me the material? Even a refining system like shards and dwemer scrap would be better than this.

If they must be bound, why can't they drop for all characters like every other single BoP item in the game? I could play on my normal dungeon running characters with my friends and my guild and continue to be able to craft stuff for people like I've been doing for two years.

I can't even learn duplicate motifs on my 'most undaunted' characters because I require 9 levels in a craft. What a coincidence that crown store bought motifs conveniently don't have these requirements.

And no I'm not going to grind up and duplicate crafting skills on all my other characters because it's redundant busywork and I've already done enough 'grinding'. I want to play and spend time with friends during my evenings, not clicking 'deconstruct' for several hours to circumvent a horrible game design.

What kind of a policy so severely disadvantages a player who has put in as much effort and investment into this game than I have. I've subbed since launch. I've spent hundreds of dollars in the crown store on top of that.

I've leveled up 6 v16 characters, I've done every single quest, I've learned every single trait, leveled up every single crafting skill line. I have farmed for every single motif and recipe and yet, it's not enough. And for what? Where is my effort and commitment to crafting ( I have 9 traits in everything) and dungeoneering (each one of my characters is Undaunted 9) lacking that I am not entitled to this?

Much less appreciating people that have invested the most time, this update seems to be a slap in the face for being an active player. I wouldn't have this issue had I spent 1 hour every weekend and had 1 character instead of several hours a day and having more.

Brrrofski

Just learn something rubbish like boots on your main. Farm shard to get to 10 in one craft.

Put material in bank for crafter to make.

Easy

Scyantific

God forbid people do group-based content in a Massively Multiplayer Online game

Go back to Skyrim if you want to do everything on one toon.

gbsteve

I craft and run grouped dungeons on one character....novel concept I know.