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New unique recipes: unbalanced ingredient requirements for stamina players
code65536
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The new recipes that combine max health with resource regen make use of alchemy ingredients.
For max health and magicka regen, the alchemy ingredient is Clear Water, which on NA/PC has an average guild market value of about 3g.
For max health and stamina regen, the alchemy ingredient is Columbine, which on NA/PC has an average guild market value of about 300g. In contrast, Frost Mirriam used for purple foods has an average guild market value of around 100g.
This seems a bit unfair for stamina users.
Suggestion: Change the ingredient to Blessed Thistle or Dragonthorn (or even Mountain Flower). Each of these ingredients, like Columbine, have the stamina restoration alchemical property, but they are all much less expensive and will make the cost of crafting the health/stam recipe much, much closer to that of the health/magicka recipe.
For max health and magicka regen, the alchemy ingredient is Clear Water, which on NA/PC has an average guild market value of about 3g.
For max health and stamina regen, the alchemy ingredient is Columbine, which on NA/PC has an average guild market value of about 300g. In contrast, Frost Mirriam used for purple foods has an average guild market value of around 100g.
This seems a bit unfair for stamina users.
Suggestion: Change the ingredient to Blessed Thistle or Dragonthorn (or even Mountain Flower). Each of these ingredients, like Columbine, have the stamina restoration alchemical property, but they are all much less expensive and will make the cost of crafting the health/stam recipe much, much closer to that of the health/magicka recipe.
Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:
Personal best scores:
Dungeon trifectas:
- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:
- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― Raidificator
Other Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information
12
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ryanmjmcevoy_ESO✭✭✭Agreed, Columbine is super valuable vs clear water which no one gives a crap about3 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭You craft four food portions out of one of each ingredients, including the flower, that last 1 hour, while potion lasts only ~45 seconds.
So, for example, that's just 4 additional flowers for 4 hours of food-buffed gameplay, but only 3 minutes of potion-stacking. Now, seriously, tell me how "expensive" that is and that you will be even able notice the difference at all...
LOL button, please!
Edited by F7sus4 on October 27, 2015 8:31PM8 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno , can you please make it so that perfect roe and columbine isn't part of the new recipes. It will make those recipes far to inhibitively expensive.
I propose instead that those ingredients are replace by mushroom that aren't Namiras Rot. Those other mushrooms are abundant and need a good use.4 -
Weberda✭✭✭✭✭
✭Personofsecrets wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno , can you please make it so that perfect roe and columbine isn't part of the new recipes. It will make those recipes far to inhibitively expensive.
I propose instead that those ingredients are replace by mushroom that aren't Namiras Rot. Those other mushrooms are abundant and need a good use.
Disagree entirely. These are "ultimate-type" recipes (i.e. stacking food and beverage buffs). Their components should be expensive or hard to get. Never mind that ZOS fed us a big line months ago when they said they didn't want to allow stacking because of some vague imbalance issues. They knew all along they were going to come out with these and didn't want to let it out.
Fernwood, EP Haderus NA
Lo Behold, AD Thornblade NA (formerly Haderus, inactive)2 -
SonofThunder✭✭✭This doesn't change the point that the OP makes at all. It's about relative cost, not absolute cost.You craft four food portions out of one of each ingredients, including the flower, that lasts 1 hour, while potion lasts only[ b]~45 seconds[/b].
So, for example, that's just 4 additional flowers for 4 hours of food-buffed gameplay, but only 3 minutes of potion-stacking. Now, seriously, tell me how "expensive" that is and that you will be even able notice the difference at all...
LOL button, please!
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Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno , can you please make it so that perfect roe and columbine isn't part of the new recipes. It will make those recipes far to inhibitively expensive.
I propose instead that those ingredients are replace by mushroom that aren't Namiras Rot. Those other mushrooms are abundant and need a good use.
Disagree entirely. These are "ultimate-type" recipes (i.e. stacking food and beverage buffs). Their components should be expensive or hard to get. Never mind that ZOS fed us a big line months ago when they said they didn't want to allow stacking because of some vague imbalance issues. They knew all along they were going to come out with these and didn't want to let it out.
The only thing they will be the ultimate of is not being used. Their components should be easily available to everyone.2 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭The point is that the cost is negligible.
Edited by F7sus4 on October 29, 2015 8:48AM2 -
Weberda✭✭✭✭✭
✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno , can you please make it so that perfect roe and columbine isn't part of the new recipes. It will make those recipes far to inhibitively expensive.
I propose instead that those ingredients are replace by mushroom that aren't Namiras Rot. Those other mushrooms are abundant and need a good use.
Disagree entirely. These are "ultimate-type" recipes (i.e. stacking food and beverage buffs). Their components should be expensive or hard to get. Never mind that ZOS fed us a big line months ago when they said they didn't want to allow stacking because of some vague imbalance issues. They knew all along they were going to come out with these and didn't want to let it out.
The only thing they will be the ultimate of is not being used. Their components should be easily available to everyone.
They are easily available. Go outside and pick some flowers, enjoy the scenery, and then do a little fishing. In others words get off that couch and do something for a change instead of looking for a handout.
Fernwood, EP Haderus NA
Lo Behold, AD Thornblade NA (formerly Haderus, inactive)3 -
Vanzen✭✭✭✭✭The new recipes that combine max health with resource regen make use of alchemy ingredients.
For max health and magicka regen, the alchemy ingredient is Clear Water, which on NA/PC has an average guild market value of about 3g.
For max health and stamina regen, the alchemy ingredient is Columbine, which on NA/PC has an average guild market value of about 300g. In contrast, Frost Mirriam used for purple foods has an average guild market value of around 100g.
This seems a bit unfair for stamina users.
Suggestion: Change the ingredient to Blessed Thistle or Dragonthorn (or even Mountain Flower). Each of these ingredients, like Columbine, have the stamina restoration alchemical property, but they are all much less expensive and will make the cost of crafting the health/stam recipe much, much closer to that of the health/magicka recipe.
Dont think clear Water will cost 3g for long still. Well ... Me and my 5k stack hope not
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NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't mind the Gold ingredient for the Gold recipe; it matches the Psijic Ambrosia and gives you something else to do with Perfect Roe.
But the Triple Trifle recipe is definitely out of whack with the others, ingredient-wise.0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You craft four food portions out of one of each ingredients, including the flower, that lasts 1 hour, while potion lasts only ~45 seconds.
So, for example, that's just 4 additional flowers for 4 hours of food-buffed gameplay, but only 3 minutes of potion-stacking. Now, seriously, tell me how "expensive" that is and that you will be even able notice the difference at all...
LOL button, please!
Yes, I agree, compared to the cost of potions, it's cheap. So what? Why are you comparing food/drink with potions? That's an irrelevant red herring.
It doesn't change the fact that it costs much more than all other non-gold food or drink in the game or that it costs a couple orders of magnitudes more than its health/magicka counterpart.Edited by code65536 on October 27, 2015 5:56PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information2 -
Jayne_Doe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How about the Magicka one uses Bugloss and the Stamina one uses Mountain Flower. That makes more sense than Clear Water.
Or, Lady's Smock/Cornflower and Blessed Thistle/Dragonthorn.1 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This would also drive up the price of potions that use columbine and ambrosia2 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
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It is relevant. As much as saying Columbine is "cheap" or "expensive". Or as much as discussing whether it is a problem or not. For me, it's another let's-find-something-to-complain-about topic.Yes, I agree, compared to the cost of potions, it's cheap. So what? Why are you comparing food/drink with potions? That's an irrelevant red herring.
It doesn't change the fact that it costs much more than all other non-gold food or drink in the game or that it costs a couple orders of magnitudes more than its health/magicka counterpart.1 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
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Columbine is significantly more expensive than clear water.
It is relevant. As much as saying Columbine is "cheap" or "expensive". Or as much as discussing whether it is a problem or not. For me, it's another let's-find-something-to-complain-about topic.Yes, I agree, compared to the cost of potions, it's cheap. So what? Why are you comparing food/drink with potions? That's an irrelevant red herring.
It doesn't change the fact that it costs much more than all other non-gold food or drink in the game or that it costs a couple orders of magnitudes more than its health/magicka counterpart.
In result, stamina meal is going to be significantly more expensive than magicka meal.
Potions are not a substitute for meals. They're used together. Columbine is in demand for both crafts.
Do you understand now?Edited by Rosveen on October 27, 2015 8:49PM5 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
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It's not me who does not understand.Do you understand now?
25 Columbines is 100 hours of blue food buff.
25 Columbines is 200 hours of purple food buff.
25 Columbines is ~18 minutes of constant VR10 potion buff.
25 Columbines is ~19,8 minutes of constant VR15 potion buff.
"Cheap vs expensive" here is not about the ingredients you spend to craft the same amount consumables, but the overall time your consumables will last (therefore, how much ingredients-per-time you'll use to keep yourself buffed).
For example:
20 potions is average potion consumption per 1 Trials raid (~15 minutes).
1 blue food is enough to do 4 raids.- Ratio: 1 food per 80 potions, in practice.
- Assuming 1 Columbine is 300 gold then it's 1500 gold for potions and 18,75 gold for food.
Edited by F7sus4 on October 29, 2015 9:22AM0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭And 0 Columbine are required for blue food magicka version... that is the OPs point. Columbine is valuable for multiple purposes, clear water is used for far fewer (esp at level cap). Thus there is a mismatch and hence zos should be informed because this is testing. Zos can then decide what to do about it - probably change the clear water to another ingredient.1 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What they should really do is redo the potion-to-flower paradigm so that desired potions are evenly distributed across the flower spectrum.
Or perhaps add additional alchemical recipes that provide the same type of effect but, say, vary in strength by a couple of percent.
Potions are way to powerful to be as farming intensive as they are. Someone that can pop potions nonstop has a huge advantage over someone who cannot, either by opening up quickbar slots or giving huge stat replensihments.
Farming flowers or gold to buy potions is the most irritating part of my ESO play.0
