Personofsecrets wrote: »There is also a distinction between challenging in a good and in a bad way.
its like they don't like tanks but want tanky DPS
@ZOS_GinaBruno
What happened with the Veteran Maelstrom Arena leaderboards this patch? I don't see anything about it in the patch notes, but the scoring system has changed tremendously from the previous patch.
My best on the last version was a time of 1h3m14s with 2 deaths and that gave me a score of roughly 629,000.
Now I just completed another run which was much better than that run. I completed it in 59 minutes with also 2 deaths, identical sigil use (but the penalty for using sigils should be less now, anyways) and I only got a score of roughly 303,000.
What gives?
Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
What happened with the Veteran Maelstrom Arena leaderboards this patch? I don't see anything about it in the patch notes, but the scoring system has changed tremendously from the previous patch.
My best on the last version was a time of 1h3m14s with 2 deaths and that gave me a score of roughly 629,000.
Now I just completed another run which was much better than that run. I completed it in 59 minutes with also 2 deaths, identical sigil use (but the penalty for using sigils should be less now, anyways) and I only got a score of roughly 303,000.
What gives?
From the patch notes, highlighted NOT:
Decreased the amount of points awarded for not taking power ups during Veteran Maelstrom Arena.
Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
What happened with the Veteran Maelstrom Arena leaderboards this patch? I don't see anything about it in the patch notes, but the scoring system has changed tremendously from the previous patch.
My best on the last version was a time of 1h3m14s with 2 deaths and that gave me a score of roughly 629,000.
Now I just completed another run which was much better than that run. I completed it in 59 minutes with also 2 deaths, identical sigil use (but the penalty for using sigils should be less now, anyways) and I only got a score of roughly 303,000.
What gives?
From the patch notes, highlighted NOT:
Decreased the amount of points awarded for not taking power ups during Veteran Maelstrom Arena.
Yes, that's what I said. The penalty for using sigils is less now. What was your point, again? Or do you mean to say that all those sigils I never used gave me a bonus of 300k points?
Personofsecrets wrote: »There is also a distinction between challenging in a good and in a bad way.
its like they don't like tanks but want tanky DPS
You hating on my leeching set ? >(
DisgracefulMind wrote: »I just really don't understand why the new dungeons are getting nerfed again. They were at a perfect spot. Many, many players were finally starting to get them down and complete them, and you nerf them again. It's unnecessary. This is why people have no clue how to play this game. Eck.
DisgracefulMind wrote: »I just really don't understand why the new dungeons are getting nerfed again. They were at a perfect spot. Many, many players were finally starting to get them down and complete them, and you nerf them again. It's unnecessary. This is why people have no clue how to play this game. Eck.
timidobserver wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »I just really don't understand why the new dungeons are getting nerfed again. They were at a perfect spot. Many, many players were finally starting to get them down and complete them, and you nerf them again. It's unnecessary. This is why people have no clue how to play this game. Eck.
I agree. Both of the dungeons are at a point where completing them is relatively easy, even in less than the best gear, if you understand and do the mechanics. This nerf is probably going to put them at a point where doing the mechanics is optional.
Personofsecrets wrote: »Well, take the Flesh Sculptor for instance. People have shown not to want to perform mechanics.
As much as it is good and dandy if players can burn through the Flesh Sculptor, the last 3 separate groups I've been a part of failed against him and really only wanted to do the burn strategy. This reminded me quite a bit why I hate Hel-Ra now. Groups got to the point where they didn't want to perform hard mode mechanics, but a result of this was performing a riskier strategy that had to be attempted over and over. For as much as people clamor for mechanics, I really don't see the respect for said mechanics that have finally been made.
Really, I don't blame people for not wanting to perform mechanics. Now that mechanics are tied to interacting with objects, fights became very clunky at times. There are also cases of mechanics just being, in my opinion, poorly designed.
Look at the Adjudicator. I greatly dislike how the boss can turn around, aggro free, and have a decent chance at killing another player while I am tanking. Now look at the Harvester that spawns during the Overfiend fight. That Harvester has a lethal attack, but can be interrupted to prevent said attack. Both harvesters have mechanics that keep players on their toes, but the Adjudicator is far more punishing, doesn't give as much of a chance to prevent damage, and introduces RNG to the fight because of how it's attack bounces off walls and back towards players. I just don't get the vision behind this aggro free attack.
The Adjudicator is an easy fight as well, but because of being easy it better highlights poor design choices. The last time I was teleported into one of that bosses cages, I couldn't use the synergy to open up the lock picking mini-game. I stood there like an idiot until a friend came over who then claimed to be out of lock picks. The boss isn't threatening except for when it's mechanics don't work.
Seriously, what were they thinking when they made these botched up mechanics? I have the same thoughts with Ibomez, the Planar Inhibitor, and now Maelstrom Arena rounds. Maybe mechanics have an important part in this game (they do), but why are we getting so many clunky mechanics?
Personofsecrets wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno , can you have some developers look into Ibomez's tenderizing mechanic.
I've had an issue tanking that boss where, after Ibomez tenderizes a player, they attack that player, and Ibomez seems to do this attack despite my taunt being on him. This interactions seems to be for real and is frustrating or, at the very least, not something that I fully understand.
Personofsecrets wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno , can you have some developers look into Ibomez's tenderizing mechanic.
I've had an issue tanking that boss where, after Ibomez tenderizes a player, they attack that player, and Ibomez seems to do this attack despite my taunt being on him. This interactions seems to be for real and is frustrating or, at the very least, not something that I fully understand.
Ibomez resets his aggro after he tenderizes some one. Doesn't matter if your addon says you have aggro.
timidobserver wrote: »Is it really that big of an issue that at certain intervals the adjudicator shoots an attack at players that they can just move out of the way of or block? Without that mechanic, players would literally just stand in place and dps while occasionally opening a cage.
Harvesting
Potency Runes found in Wrothgar and Cyrodiil will now rarely produce the Veteran Rank 16 potency runestones Repora and Itade. These will only appear if you possess the skills required to craft with them.
timidobserver wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Well, take the Flesh Sculptor for instance. People have shown not to want to perform mechanics.
As much as it is good and dandy if players can burn through the Flesh Sculptor, the last 3 separate groups I've been a part of failed against him and really only wanted to do the burn strategy. This reminded me quite a bit why I hate Hel-Ra now. Groups got to the point where they didn't want to perform hard mode mechanics, but a result of this was performing a riskier strategy that had to be attempted over and over. For as much as people clamor for mechanics, I really don't see the respect for said mechanics that have finally been made.
Really, I don't blame people for not wanting to perform mechanics. Now that mechanics are tied to interacting with objects, fights became very clunky at times. There are also cases of mechanics just being, in my opinion, poorly designed.
Look at the Adjudicator. I greatly dislike how the boss can turn around, aggro free, and have a decent chance at killing another player while I am tanking. Now look at the Harvester that spawns during the Overfiend fight. That Harvester has a lethal attack, but can be interrupted to prevent said attack. Both harvesters have mechanics that keep players on their toes, but the Adjudicator is far more punishing, doesn't give as much of a chance to prevent damage, and introduces RNG to the fight because of how it's attack bounces off walls and back towards players. I just don't get the vision behind this aggro free attack.
The Adjudicator is an easy fight as well, but because of being easy it better highlights poor design choices. The last time I was teleported into one of that bosses cages, I couldn't use the synergy to open up the lock picking mini-game. I stood there like an idiot until a friend came over who then claimed to be out of lock picks. The boss isn't threatening except for when it's mechanics don't work.
Seriously, what were they thinking when they made these botched up mechanics? I have the same thoughts with Ibomez, the Planar Inhibitor, and now Maelstrom Arena rounds. Maybe mechanics have an important part in this game (they do), but why are we getting so many clunky mechanics?
In HelRa it makes sense to push the mechanics because you get an awesome leadboard score if you get a good time. In Imperial City Prison, you potentially waste a ton of time and get a one time achievement, which can be achieved without doing the burn strat. The hilarious part is that doing the mechanics is so much easier once you learn them.
People not wanting to do the flesh sculptor mechanics is not a good reason to make the mechanics optional. If people want to find alternate ways to get around the mechanics they can do that, but the developers should not actively make it easier for them to do that. All of that said, a lot of people seem to have issues with this fight, so I could live with a nerf specifically to this encounter. However, I don't really see the need to apply an across the board difficulty nerf to entirety of both dungeons.
I've seen enough of your posts to know how you feel about wanting to "tank" everything. Is it really that big of an issue that at certain intervals the adjudicator shoots an attack at players that they can just move out of the way of or block? Without that mechanic, players would literally just stand in place and dps while occasionally opening a cage. I don't really understand your point in bringing up bugs with the cages being bugged. If there are bugs they should be fixed, but that doesn't justify nerfs. I also don't get having an issue with the planar inhibitor. It can be summed up as: Hit the pinion at the appropriate intervals, kill your portals when your screen changes color, and apply mild to vigorous dps to the boss.
Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
What happened with the Veteran Maelstrom Arena leaderboards this patch? I don't see anything about it in the patch notes, but the scoring system has changed tremendously from the previous patch.
My best on the last version was a time of 1h3m14s with 2 deaths and that gave me a score of roughly 629,000.
Now I just completed another run which was much better than that run. I completed it in 59 minutes with also 2 deaths, identical sigil use (but the penalty for using sigils should be less now, anyways) and I only got a score of roughly 303,000.
What gives?
From the patch notes, highlighted NOT:
Decreased the amount of points awarded for not taking power ups during Veteran Maelstrom Arena.
Yes, that's what I said. The penalty for using sigils is less now. What was your point, again? Or do you mean to say that all those sigils I never used gave me a bonus of 300k points?
Decreased the amount of points for NOT using sigils.
Is not the same as
Decreased the amount of penalty for using sigils.
If you used the same number of sigils, you receive less points per round than before the patch.
Personofsecrets wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Well, take the Flesh Sculptor for instance. People have shown not to want to perform mechanics.
As much as it is good and dandy if players can burn through the Flesh Sculptor, the last 3 separate groups I've been a part of failed against him and really only wanted to do the burn strategy. This reminded me quite a bit why I hate Hel-Ra now. Groups got to the point where they didn't want to perform hard mode mechanics, but a result of this was performing a riskier strategy that had to be attempted over and over. For as much as people clamor for mechanics, I really don't see the respect for said mechanics that have finally been made.
Really, I don't blame people for not wanting to perform mechanics. Now that mechanics are tied to interacting with objects, fights became very clunky at times. There are also cases of mechanics just being, in my opinion, poorly designed.
Look at the Adjudicator. I greatly dislike how the boss can turn around, aggro free, and have a decent chance at killing another player while I am tanking. Now look at the Harvester that spawns during the Overfiend fight. That Harvester has a lethal attack, but can be interrupted to prevent said attack. Both harvesters have mechanics that keep players on their toes, but the Adjudicator is far more punishing, doesn't give as much of a chance to prevent damage, and introduces RNG to the fight because of how it's attack bounces off walls and back towards players. I just don't get the vision behind this aggro free attack.
The Adjudicator is an easy fight as well, but because of being easy it better highlights poor design choices. The last time I was teleported into one of that bosses cages, I couldn't use the synergy to open up the lock picking mini-game. I stood there like an idiot until a friend came over who then claimed to be out of lock picks. The boss isn't threatening except for when it's mechanics don't work.
Seriously, what were they thinking when they made these botched up mechanics? I have the same thoughts with Ibomez, the Planar Inhibitor, and now Maelstrom Arena rounds. Maybe mechanics have an important part in this game (they do), but why are we getting so many clunky mechanics?
In HelRa it makes sense to push the mechanics because you get an awesome leadboard score if you get a good time. In Imperial City Prison, you potentially waste a ton of time and get a one time achievement, which can be achieved without doing the burn strat. The hilarious part is that doing the mechanics is so much easier once you learn them.
People not wanting to do the flesh sculptor mechanics is not a good reason to make the mechanics optional. If people want to find alternate ways to get around the mechanics they can do that, but the developers should not actively make it easier for them to do that. All of that said, a lot of people seem to have issues with this fight, so I could live with a nerf specifically to this encounter. However, I don't really see the need to apply an across the board difficulty nerf to entirety of both dungeons.
I've seen enough of your posts to know how you feel about wanting to "tank" everything. Is it really that big of an issue that at certain intervals the adjudicator shoots an attack at players that they can just move out of the way of or block? Without that mechanic, players would literally just stand in place and dps while occasionally opening a cage. I don't really understand your point in bringing up bugs with the cages being bugged. If there are bugs they should be fixed, but that doesn't justify nerfs. I also don't get having an issue with the planar inhibitor. It can be summed up as: Hit the pinion at the appropriate intervals, kill your portals when your screen changes color, and apply mild to vigorous dps to the boss.
Hey @timidobserver , thank you for taking the time to respond.
I agree that getting rid of mechanics just because people don't want to do them isn't necessarily the correct thing to do. There is some more nuance though to this issue though. It doesn't just stop at people not wanting to do mechanics. There is a reason that people don't want to do mechanics and I think it is because, in particular with the button press mechanics, that they aren't super responsive or fun.
I certainly do want to tank everything and even if the Adjudicator isn't a big issue, which it is not, the direction with aggro free abilities can lead to fights not being enjoyable. Just look at my discussion in this thread about one of the Flesh Sculptors aggro free abilities - it drives me a bit wild that his tenderize is sort of broken from a tanking perspective.
Yes, if the Adjudicators attack which we are discussing was not aggro free, then players would just stand still for most of the fight. That being said, just because the Adjudicator has this mechanic doesn't mean that it couldn't have been a more compelling one, and also doesn't really say much about what tanks are to do during the fight. Maybe the DPS have to slightly move now, but a tank really isn't needed against the Adjudicator at all. Besides, the one mechanic in question, this boss really doesn't have high damaging attacks for the tank to care about. That is part of my problem with the Planar Inhibitor fight as well - a tank just isn't super valuable or able to contribute that much to the boss encounter.
Certainly bugs should be fixed and what I mean to say by bringing them up is that this specific type button press mechanic is prone to causing frustration because it is inherently buggy. I've had players that claim to have issues with the Flesh Sculptor goo balls as well; they can't pick them up, can't aim them, and get really frustrated. I wish that I could contribute more to throwing those goo balls, but this button press also causes me to drop block for a split second and has caused my death on more than one occasion.
DisgracefulMind wrote: »I just really don't understand why the new dungeons are getting nerfed again. They were at a perfect spot. Many, many players were finally starting to get them down and complete them, and you nerf them again. It's unnecessary. This is why people have no clue how to play this game. Eck.
Gelassenheit wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »I just really don't understand why the new dungeons are getting nerfed again. They were at a perfect spot. Many, many players were finally starting to get them down and complete them, and you nerf them again. It's unnecessary. This is why people have no clue how to play this game. Eck.
I completely agree with this! The first boss of vWGT is nearly soloable, even with sub-optimal gear. Hell, even the entirety of vWGT can be heal-tanked in a mix of V1, V12, and V15 purple gear with 3 DPS pulling ~12k, all in under 30 minutes. Getting a mix of lower level gear at the purple quality is incredibly easy to do -- if you play the game for a solid afternoon you can get all the required materials (or money) to craft (or buy) it. Pulling ~12k DPS isn't super high either. There are tons of builds out there that can get those numbers, and they don't require much in the way of gear.
I really believe that there is no reason to nerf these dungeons even more, by any amount.
Gelassenheit wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »I just really don't understand why the new dungeons are getting nerfed again. They were at a perfect spot. Many, many players were finally starting to get them down and complete them, and you nerf them again. It's unnecessary. This is why people have no clue how to play this game. Eck.
I completely agree with this! The first boss of vWGT is nearly soloable, even with sub-optimal gear. Hell, even the entirety of vWGT can be heal-tanked in a mix of V1, V12, and V15 purple gear with 3 DPS pulling ~12k, all in under 30 minutes. Getting a mix of lower level gear at the purple quality is incredibly easy to do -- if you play the game for a solid afternoon you can get all the required materials (or money) to craft (or buy) it. Pulling ~12k DPS isn't super high either. There are tons of builds out there that can get those numbers, and they don't require much in the way of gear.
I really believe that there is no reason to nerf these dungeons even more, by any amount.
are you lying? exploiting? or what? o.o I've spent hours trying to get past the first bosses in these dungeons, and hundreds of thousands of gold. 20+ attempts with various groups... Me and my friend are always the last to die, and we both pull 14-27k dps over the entire duration. unless EVERY group we've tried has been incompetent vr 16's with green level 40 gear I just don't see how u can be saying this...
Heaven.ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »The sword bonus no longer grants a percent bonus to Weapon Damage and Spell Damage (a change that was made for the Imperial City update). It once again modifies all damage as a direct bonus.
Anyone have an idea what this means for magicka builds that use dual wield?
Gelassenheit wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »I just really don't understand why the new dungeons are getting nerfed again. They were at a perfect spot. Many, many players were finally starting to get them down and complete them, and you nerf them again. It's unnecessary. This is why people have no clue how to play this game. Eck.
I completely agree with this! The first boss of vWGT is nearly soloable, even with sub-optimal gear. Hell, even the entirety of vWGT can be heal-tanked in a mix of V1, V12, and V15 purple gear with 3 DPS pulling ~12k, all in under 30 minutes. Getting a mix of lower level gear at the purple quality is incredibly easy to do -- if you play the game for a solid afternoon you can get all the required materials (or money) to craft (or buy) it. Pulling ~12k DPS isn't super high either. There are tons of builds out there that can get those numbers, and they don't require much in the way of gear.
I really believe that there is no reason to nerf these dungeons even more, by any amount.
are you lying? exploiting? or what? o.o I've spent hours trying to get past the first bosses in these dungeons, and hundreds of thousands of gold. 20+ attempts with various groups... Me and my friend are always the last to die, and we both pull 14-27k dps over the entire duration. unless EVERY group we've tried has been incompetent vr 16's with green level 40 gear I just don't see how u can be saying this...
Heaven.ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »The sword bonus no longer grants a percent bonus to Weapon Damage and Spell Damage (a change that was made for the Imperial City update). It once again modifies all damage as a direct bonus.
Anyone have an idea what this means for magicka builds that use dual wield?
Septimus_Magna wrote: »Heaven.ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »The sword bonus no longer grants a percent bonus to Weapon Damage and Spell Damage (a change that was made for the Imperial City update). It once again modifies all damage as a direct bonus.
Anyone have an idea what this means for magicka builds that use dual wield?
You need to use flurry to proc the extra (387 x 2=) 774 weapon and spell dmg, this will put a big drain on your stamina pool as a magicka build because you need to cast Flurry every 4 seconds to get the buff.
It will be very very strong for stam builds with Flurry and Steel Tornado, not looking forward to this set in pvp..
timidobserver wrote: »Seriously, you are nerfing Imperial Prison and WGT again? Didn't you already nerf it once? Why do you keep nerfing it?
When he fears he purifys himself of all Damage over Time effects and etc on him, including taunts. It seems like an intended mechanic, it's not just taunt that gets thrown off of himPersonofsecrets wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno , can you have some developers look into Ibomez's tenderizing mechanic.
I've had an issue tanking that boss where, after Ibomez tenderizes a player, they attack that player, and Ibomez seems to do this attack despite my taunt being on him. This interactions seems to be for real and is frustrating or, at the very least, not something that I fully understand.