The Akaviri Swords Motif.

lathbury

lore friendly or not ZOS has missed the mark here the katana style is rightly or wrongly associated with akavir and really desirable to some players. It should be the final tier for the akaviri motif as there are many standard longsword designs to choose from.

kkampaseb17_ESO

Very bad decision from ZoS...and there are also plenty of threads about it both on PTS and General discussion. But you guessed correctly....no official response on this matter. @ZOS_GinaBruno

elias.stormneb18_ESO

lathbury wrote: »

lore friendly or not ZOS has missed the mark here the katana style is rightly or wrongly associated with akavir and really desirable to some players. It should be the final tier for the akaviri motif as there are many standard longsword designs to choose from.

The third tier Akaviri swords are not simple longswords, but rather a type of leaf-bladed sword (wich there are not that many examples of in this game).

elias.stormneb18_ESO

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Very bad decision from ZoS...and there are also plenty of threads about it both on PTS and General discussion. But you guessed correctly....no official response on this matter. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Why would they change the appearance of a style that has been in the game since beta NOW?

Kuroinu

Ok, I'll try to be brief. When you mentioned the different races of Akavir I immediately thought "Why weren't they more specific with this motif?" because it's not like we have "Racial Motifs: Tamrielic" to encompass all the races of Tamriel. But I know the TES games are centered around Tamriel and are probably more diverse in terms of armour and weapons compared to the other continents that we know less about.

It would have been much more clear to have separate motifs per Akaviri race. This would most likely clear all the confusion this has caused, at least for me. So for example the current Motif could stay as it is, but incorporate my suggestion in my original post into the style. But the other races of Akavir could have their own racial motifs, since like you said they have different styles. Akaviri armour and weapons to me have always been the Samurai-style armour and swords. The other races however, I know little about in terms of weapons and armour.

But if it's true that they were trying to incorporate multiple Akaviri races in this one motif, then for me that is a mistake and they should have been separate just like the blue tiered motifs we can find. In future though, I do hope it will be possible to create Akaviri Katanas/Dai-katanas no matter the level of material used or improvement quality.

elias.stormneb18_ESO

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Ok, I'll try to be brief. When you mentioned the different races of Akavir I immediately thought "Why weren't they more specific with this motif?" because it's not like we have "Racial Motifs: Tamrielic" to encompass all the races of Tamriel. But I know the TES games are centered around Tamriel and are probably more diverse in terms of armour and weapons compared to the other continents that we know less about.

It would have been much more clear to have separate motifs per Akaviri race. This would most likely clear all the confusion this has caused, at least for me. So for example the current Motif could stay as it is, but incorporate my suggestion in my original post into the style. But the other races of Akavir could have their own racial motifs, since like you said they have different styles. Akaviri armour and weapons to me have always been the Samurai-style armour and swords. The other races however, I know little about in terms of weapons and armour.

But if it's true that they were trying to incorporate multiple Akaviri races in this one motif, then for me that is a mistake and they should have been separate just like the blue tiered motifs we can find. In future though, I do hope it will be possible to create Akaviri Katanas/Dai-katanas no matter the level of material used or improvement quality.

It would have made more sense, yes. But ZOS would then have to design new armour and weapons for at least four races. Todd Howard 'n Company probably would't be so happy with ZOS spoiling to much about Akavir either. The Akaviri Motif we have now has been in the game since Beta (and likely even before that) and was probably mainly added as a Motif because a lot of people were asking for it. It is pretty clear that the style was not originally intended to be a motif.

Jura23

I like the 1h sword. Reminds me of Roman gladius. I want this one to stay in the game. I don't care under which style though.

Kuroinu

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Ok, I'll try to be brief. When you mentioned the different races of Akavir I immediately thought "Why weren't they more specific with this motif?" because it's not like we have "Racial Motifs: Tamrielic" to encompass all the races of Tamriel. But I know the TES games are centered around Tamriel and are probably more diverse in terms of armour and weapons compared to the other continents that we know less about.

It would have been much more clear to have separate motifs per Akaviri race. This would most likely clear all the confusion this has caused, at least for me. So for example the current Motif could stay as it is, but incorporate my suggestion in my original post into the style. But the other races of Akavir could have their own racial motifs, since like you said they have different styles. Akaviri armour and weapons to me have always been the Samurai-style armour and swords. The other races however, I know little about in terms of weapons and armour.

But if it's true that they were trying to incorporate multiple Akaviri races in this one motif, then for me that is a mistake and they should have been separate just like the blue tiered motifs we can find. In future though, I do hope it will be possible to create Akaviri Katanas/Dai-katanas no matter the level of material used or improvement quality.

It would have made more sense, yes. But Zenimax would then have to design new armour and weapons for at least four races. Todd Howard 'n Company probably would't be so happy with Zenimax spoiling to much about Akavir either. The Akaviri Motif we have now has been in the game since Beta (and likely even before that) anf was probably mainly added as a Motif because a lot of people were asking for it. It is pretty clear that the style was not originally intended to be a motif.

They could have added the other race motifs in future, whenever it felt right as to not spoil any possible new single player experience. The race that wore the armour in this motif is heavily influenced by Japanese culture and so I feel it would be right to make the swords in this motif consistent with that. Later the other styles can come, if possible, but for now it would have been best that they had been consistent and more specific with this motif.

elias.stormneb18_ESO

Jura23 wrote: »

I like the 1h sword. Reminds me of Roman gladius. I want this one to stay in the game. I don't care under which style though.

Don't worry about it being removed ZOS would be stupid to do so. The Prismatic Longsword still has that appearance, if that where to happen.

elias.stormneb18_ESO

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Ok, I'll try to be brief. When you mentioned the different races of Akavir I immediately thought "Why weren't they more specific with this motif?" because it's not like we have "Racial Motifs: Tamrielic" to encompass all the races of Tamriel. But I know the TES games are centered around Tamriel and are probably more diverse in terms of armour and weapons compared to the other continents that we know less about.

It would have been much more clear to have separate motifs per Akaviri race. This would most likely clear all the confusion this has caused, at least for me. So for example the current Motif could stay as it is, but incorporate my suggestion in my original post into the style. But the other races of Akavir could have their own racial motifs, since like you said they have different styles. Akaviri armour and weapons to me have always been the Samurai-style armour and swords. The other races however, I know little about in terms of weapons and armour.

But if it's true that they were trying to incorporate multiple Akaviri races in this one motif, then for me that is a mistake and they should have been separate just like the blue tiered motifs we can find. In future though, I do hope it will be possible to create Akaviri Katanas/Dai-katanas no matter the level of material used or improvement quality.

It would have made more sense, yes. But Zenimax would then have to design new armour and weapons for at least four races. Todd Howard 'n Company probably would't be so happy with Zenimax spoiling to much about Akavir either. The Akaviri Motif we have now has been in the game since Beta (and likely even before that) anf was probably mainly added as a Motif because a lot of people were asking for it. It is pretty clear that the style was not originally intended to be a motif.

They could have added the other race motifs in future, whenever it felt right as to not spoil any possible new single player experience. The race that wore the armour in this motif is heavily influenced by Japanese culture and so I feel it would be right to make the swords in this motif consistent with that. Later the other styles can come, if possible, but for now it would have been best that they had been consistent and more specific with this motif.

I kind of agree. If you have any more questions ask them fast because I really have to go soon.

Kuroinu

Lol no, it's fine mate. You can be free of me now!

elias.stormneb18_ESO

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Lol no, it's fine mate. You can be free of me now!

*Dissapears as dust in the wind, silently whispering "Thank... You..."*

elias.stormneb18_ESO

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Lol no, it's fine mate. You can be free of me now!

You just promoted me to level 3! Awesome! Oh, wait...

kkampaseb17_ESO

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Very bad decision from ZoS...and there are also plenty of threads about it both on PTS and General discussion. But you guessed correctly....no official response on this matter. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Why would they change the appearance of a style that has been in the game since beta NOW?

What do you mean? The PvP armors are exactly the Akaviri motif. And the PvP 1h sword is a katana, also known as the Potentates set. THAT is the akaviri motif for 1h sword. On the other hand the 2h PvP sword is exactly this leaf look double bladed sword. So they actually shrunk that motif down to 1h instead of giving us the katana....

So what you are saying is not accurate.

Zaldan

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

ZOS_RiedL wrote: »

Hello there,

Please keep in mind that, per our Community Code of Conduct, it is never acceptable to insult other members of the community, and that even heated discussions should remain constructive and civil.
We would like to keep this discussion open, so we encourage everyone to please be respectful of one another’s opinions

Damn it ReidL, you got me excited for a moment lol. But thanks for posting this!

lol yeah they need to give mods an M instead of a Z or something

Nighn_9

seeing as how the game will be in japan soon, swords that look like katanas would be a excellent idea.

Sheezabeast

Man I really wanted a 2H Katana, it would be so awesome My initial response to hearing about the Motif was yay finally, but then I remembered Zos couldn't even get Glass armor to hit the mark

Twilix01

I have a proposal for a solution. Why not have a new motif just for the Blades? I've only played as far back as Oblivion but I have never seen any indication of the akaviri swords in oblivion being actual akaviri weapons, likely just one of the possibly many styles used in Akavir. The sword even is just called a "Blades Sword" in Skyrim, and in both games the armor is just "Blades Armor" so why not have a Blades motif separate from the Akaviri motif? ZOS can give people their katanas and not have to reskin a style that's been in since beta and possible crown store revenue from it, because you can bet your rear-end people will buy that for sure from the demand.

Kuroinu

Twilix01 wrote: »

I have a proposal for a solution. Why not have a new motif just for the Blades? I've only played as far back as Oblivion but I have never seen any indication of the akaviri swords in oblivion being actual akaviri weapons, likely just one of the possibly many styles used in Akavir. The sword even is just called a "Blades Sword" in Skyrim, and in both games the armor is just "Blades Armor" so why not have a Blades motif separate from the Akaviri motif? ZOS can give people their katanas and not have to reskin a style that's been in since beta and possible crown store revenue from it, because you can bet your rear-end people will buy that for sure from the demand.

This would also be a good alternative, but I'm not sure many players would agree with other players running around in Blades Armour, since it's unique and iconic to a faction, the weapons however would be fine in my opinion. I personally wouldn't have a problem with the Armour either, but apparently in this Era the Blades have disbanded, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

My suggestion for adding an additional motif specific to Akaviri Katanas is similar to what you are suggesting though.

Twilix01

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Twilix01 wrote: »

I have a proposal for a solution. Why not have a new motif just for the Blades? I've only played as far back as Oblivion but I have never seen any indication of the akaviri swords in oblivion being actual akaviri weapons, likely just one of the possibly many styles used in Akavir. The sword even is just called a "Blades Sword" in Skyrim, and in both games the armor is just "Blades Armor" so why not have a Blades motif separate from the Akaviri motif? ZOS can give people their katanas and not have to reskin a style that's been in since beta and possible crown store revenue from it, because you can bet your rear-end people will buy that for sure from the demand.

This would also be a good alternative, but I'm not sure many players would agree with other players running around in Blades Armour, since it's unique and iconic to a faction, the weapons however would be fine in my opinion. I personally wouldn't have a problem with the Armour either, but apparently in this Era the Blades have disbanded, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

My suggestion for adding an additional motif specific to Akaviri Katanas is similar to what you are suggesting though.

Would hardly be different than running around in Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Undaunted, etc. armor as far as wearing something specific to a faction. As for the blades themselves I think you might be correct that they disbanded, but maybe I'm wrong too. Either way we've also got dark seducer and golden saint armor as costumes, along with an imperial chancellor outfit and even the ability to look like an actual soul shriven, so it shouldn't be that much of a stretch to believe people could at least emulate the style of the blades and sell that.

ShirleyShine

I want 'Blades' swords.
Closest I can come to the 'feeling' is the Red guard swords, they are the only ones that to me look like the Akaviri katanas I loved so much in Oblivion.
I may be wrong, but I am sure I found the remnants of the stronghold in Cyrodiil and some reference to the last of the Blades.
I've loved exploring Cyro and finding the 'old' locations and familiar names.

Korah_Eaglecry

Jura23 wrote: »

I like the 1h sword. Reminds me of Roman gladius. I want this one to stay in the game. I don't care under which style though.

Imperial maybe?

I do wish they would go back and introduce Racial Alternative Styles at some point. Most of the current Racial Styles are underwhelming in my opinion. Just take the Nord style (Heavy) as an example. Even at higher tiers the metal looks poorly crafted with pock marks and indentations from when it would of been on the anvil. And is scratched up to the point youd think it was used. I know they want the Nords to look like theyre always fighting. But the Armor looks old and worn in. And that is just disappointing when youre in the VRs and putting the armor on for the first time after crafting it. Same goes for all the other Armors at higher tiers with their dents. When Im a level 50 Blacksmith Crafter. I shouldnt be struggling to produce finely crafted Armor. Especially once I pass that VR1 threshold.

But back on topic. The Katana is synonymous with Japanese Culture. So is the Samauri and their Armor. The Akaviri Style we're getting is based on the Samauri...So where is the Katana that would naturally go with this set?

As for the comment that the Katana is at lower levels. Im gonna call shenanigans. Armor and weapons do evolve over the course of leveling. But weapons become more intricate and thats about it. They dont change visual styles. Where are the pictures of these katanas at lower levels? Until you can provide pictures to back up such a claim. Its nonsense. How ridiculous would ZOS look for introducing Katanas at lower levels only for players looking to continue to use Katanas 'out level' the visual style and find themselves forced to use another style of sword?

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Potentates Sword, it is Akaviri, max VR level is VR10, look at the handle and the Tsuba guard..









So sad that they could not just use these models for the one handed versions..

I just want to craft these, how hard could it be for them to add them....

elias.stormneb18_ESO

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Potentates Sword, it is Akaviri, max VR level is VR10, look at the handle and the Tsuba guard..









So sad that they could not just use these models for the one handed versions..

I just want to craft these, how hard could it be for them to add them....

It is part of the Akaviri Motif and perfectly craftable. It is the second tier Akaviri sword, as I have already stated twice. There is no Tsuba Guard on that sword.

elias.stormneb18_ESO

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Twilix01 wrote: »

I have a proposal for a solution. Why not have a new motif just for the Blades? I've only played as far back as Oblivion but I have never seen any indication of the akaviri swords in oblivion being actual akaviri weapons, likely just one of the possibly many styles used in Akavir. The sword even is just called a "Blades Sword" in Skyrim, and in both games the armor is just "Blades Armor" so why not have a Blades motif separate from the Akaviri motif? ZOS can give people their katanas and not have to reskin a style that's been in since beta and possible crown store revenue from it, because you can bet your rear-end people will buy that for sure from the demand.

This would also be a good alternative, but I'm not sure many players would agree with other players running around in Blades Armour, since it's unique and iconic to a faction, the weapons however would be fine in my opinion. I personally wouldn't have a problem with the Armour either, but apparently in this Era the Blades have disbanded, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

My suggestion for adding an additional motif specific to Akaviri Katanas is similar to what you are suggesting though.

The Blades haven't yet been founded and won't be for several hundred years. The Blades will begin as a splinter fation of the Dragonguard after the rise of Tiber Septim. The Dragonguard appear in ESO, the Drake of Blades is one and Sai Sahan was one. The Dragonguard wear Akaviri armour because of their Tsaesci origin and so would the blades after them. Even if there were Blades in this game their gear would be no different from the Akaviri style we have now.

Kuroinu

Elias, like I also said before. Even if we can craft these Akaviri style weapons in one of these tiers. The fact that they were not consistent with the style in that the final tier is a different style altogether, is a flaw and I cannot say this is "perfectly" craftable. Do you craft your own weapons? Make your own sets? Can you not see this isn't acceptable to have it as only a single tier and not the final? If it was the final tier for every weapon, then this would be absolutely no problem for me.

Some players are likely to buy this assuming they are getting what the majority of players understand to be Akaviri swords and they are likely to be disappointed when they spend whatever amount of time, gold and AP to craft and improve to legendary and then realise that the sword is not what they expected in the final tier. Even many informed players now will not care much about this motif, sure they may still acquire it, but it's still not what they were expecting in the end.

At the very least they should switch around the tiers so that the katana style will be the final tier of all Akaviri styled swords.

Kuroinu

I've taken some information from UESPWiki, since it always helps to be more informed. I've highlighted in bold the parts that are the most relevant.

The Tsaesci once invaded Tamriel in 1E 2703, but were driven back by the forces of Emperor Reman I. Surviving Tsaesci in Cyrodiil served as mercenaries and personal guards of nobles. They left many influences on the Imperials, such as the doctrines of the Legion and its equipment (such as the Dai-katana, Blades and Dragonscale armor), and a high society that revered all things Akaviri. The Interregnum cemented the significance of the dragon as a symbol of the Empire. Several Tsaesci even served as Potentate, acting in place of the Emperor when the Reman dynasty ended. The first Potentate, Versidue-Shaie, ushered the Empire into the Second Era, an era of chaos and upheaval. He, and his heir, ruled Tamriel for four hundred years as Akaviri Potentates, until the assassinations that ended their reign in 2E 430.

You can find the page related to this here.

Additionally the Akaviri Potentate talked about above also assisted in forming the Fighters Guild, and this is why we see some Fighters Guild members wearing and wielding Akaviri armour and weapons. The book that explains this can be found in ESO, but I'll give a link to it here.

I've taken 2 screenshots and placed them in a spoiler for a visual reference of the Fighters Guild armour and weapons in ESO.

You'll notice that they are very similar to the upcoming Akaviri motif armour and weapons, essentially the Fighters Guild armour and weapons have been reskinned for this motif and there is nothing wrong with reskinning the armour and most of the weapons, since we haven't had them as a craftable style yet.

But this brings me to my point. Since they have chosen to reskin the Fighters Guild version of the Akaviri armour and weapons, they have also mistakenly(?) carried over and reskinned the Sword and Greatsword which make sense for the Fighters Guild, but not for this Akaviri specific motif. I can see this being an oversight and possibly an easy mistake to make in the design process.

I'd honestly like to hear from any community representative or developer on if this can ever be resolved.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JasonLeavey @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert

The listing of many "tags" may seem rude or inappropriate , but it's with the best intentions.

Robbmrp

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

I won't speak for everyone, only myself. But for some the feeling may be mutual.

Back when I first found out about the Akaviri Motif, I was looking forward to acquiring it no matter what the grind entailed. It was relevant to my interests to create the Akaviri armour style and match it up with both the one-handed and two-handed sword types, to create the Samurai-look that the Akaviri in TES are heavily influenced by.

However, only recently due to people joining the PTS and playing around in Orsinium did I find out that the Akaviri swords that we can craft are not Katanas or Dai-katanas. They are modeled to look like every other sword and greatsword currently in ESO. For me this has significantly dropped my motivation to work towards this motif and I was surprised at how much disappointment I felt because I honestly did not even think that this motif would not include Katana style weapons.

For visual a reference, I've taken 2 images posted by @Crown in his thread in the crafting section. They are rather large, so I've placed them in a spoiler.

Before I get into my suggestion to remedy this, I'm aware that we may not know what's planned in future for other styles and that Katanas may show up eventually. But I guess this is why I'm posting this thread, due to a lack of info. about why this motif doesn't include the katana style swords and in truth I never expected to have to make a thread about this. Perhaps there was miscommunication during the design process? Who knows and that doesn't matter now. What does matter is making developers aware of when something has perhaps been misinterpreted and looks wrong as a result.

So anyway, I'm aware that in the past the Orc and Redguard armour styles were redesigned and this brings me to my suggestion. We could offer that they redesign these swords to properly fit the Akaviri style and of course I'd love that. But instead of taking away the sword styles as they are now, they could be left in and alternatively they could create in addition "Crafting Motifs 18, Chapter 15: Akaviri Katanas" to encompass the Katana(1h) and Dai-katana(2h) style we were expecting. It could also be implemented to be a separate Gold Motif and be a lot rarer or more expensive, but I'll just stick with seeing if we can get any developer feedback on the design first.

Again I was surprised at how strongly I felt about the katana style being omitted from the Akaviri Motif and I hope this can be resolved in future, thanks for reading!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Edit: Providing a link to another detailed post I have made within this thread.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/2379961/#Comment_2379961

I'm not sure who designed those in game Swords but nothing about them says "Katana".....

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Potentates Sword, it is Akaviri, max VR level is VR10, look at the handle and the Tsuba guard..









So sad that they could not just use these models for the one handed versions..

I just want to craft these, how hard could it be for them to add them....

It is part of the Akaviri Motif and perfectly craftable. It is the second tier Akaviri sword, as I have already stated twice. There is no Tsuba Guard on that sword.

Yeah, it should be the last tier as the Akaviri sword is based on the Katana not a European sword (full stop) and the Tsuba is the Akaviri type guard before the blade, really, are you telling me you cannot see that..

A tsuba is a guard, it doesn't matter if it is square or round, or molded, etc...

if a Katana type sword has no Tsuba it looks like this,



it is then called a SHIRASAYA.

What people want is this type of sword/blade for the end tier,



We are waiting..

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Elias, like I also said before. Even if we can craft these Akaviri style weapons in one of these tiers. The fact that they were not consistent with the style in that the final tier is a different style altogether, is a flaw and I cannot say this is "perfectly" craftable. Do you craft your own weapons? Make your own sets? Can you not see this isn't acceptable to have it as only a single tier and not the final? If it was the final tier for every weapon, then this would be absolutely no problem for me.

Some players are likely to buy this assuming they are getting what the majority of players understand to be Akaviri swords and they are likely to be disappointed when they spend whatever amount of time, gold and AP to craft and improve to legendary and then realise that the sword is not what they expected in the final tier. Even many informed players now will not care much about this motif, sure they may still acquire it, but it's still not what they were expecting in the end.

At the very least they should switch around the tiers so that the katana style will be the final tier of all Akaviri styled swords.

Totally agree with you here...