IC dungeons too difficult in VET mode for casual players !!!!

G0ku

Nifty2g wrote: »

Normal was made for you
Veteran is veteran mode for harder content
Definition of Veteran

a person who has had long experience in a particular field.

In other words if you're casual then this harder content mode is probably not the choice for you as it was designed to fit the players who have been around for awhile

Always thought it´s veteran mode like in veteran ranks.

Not talking about you right now but the arrogance of some posts is just annoying.

I have a set group for doing stuff like this and if the members are there everything is fine. As soon as one of us got no time (you know real life and boring stuff like that) it gets difficult.

Again my suggestions:

- raise difficulty of normal mode and of the other vet dungeons so people get used to the level. Nothing in the game right now is difficult but these 2 vetmodes.

- after raising difficulty in normal mode let bosses drop half of the trophies you would get for veteran mode so also these people can enter the vault to get their hands on the sets. So no nerfs needed.


I still run these in crafted gear as I got not more than 3 parts of any new set after dozens of runs. I get the same parts over and over and over again. Which gear is used on your speedruns? Maybe some more players will make it with the new sets?

G0ku

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I insist that groups that I know of who cannot complete vWGT and vICP are good, organized, coordinated and teamspeaked.

And you said "there's not much of a difference between VR15 and VR16 gear" ? Of course there is. Don't tell lies. Look at the stats. Try them.

Well, then they should just craft VR16 gear and use it. That´s how we done it. If they are good, organized, coordinated and teamspeaked and use crafted VR16 gear they will make it after some practice.

I am against nerfing it, but all for giving players who can´t compete right now some possibility to get their hands on the new stuff.

Francescolg

I agree up on the veteran dungeon level being too hard, not just the new dungeons! Imo, also the difficulty level of "old" veteran dungeons has been risen.

The plain arrogance of answers, which can be summarized as "L2P" and often comes in an offending voice, is disturbing.

And it's not just casual gamers, who find these dungeons too difficult, them is just a part.

I'm normally a polite person but given the factors: ZOS as game developer + a raging mob of oh-so-skilled gamers, I see no other solution than to drop this game, as all factors (many unmentioned by me) all point to the future of this game, which seems to be: a constant rise in difficulty and grinding and nothing else!

Also the future plan, that we'll be seing an update every ~quarter, does not sound at all promising for me, as I (and maybe a lot of other players) already struggle a lot with the absurd difficulty level. The time, we've got in between the updates, that time is not long enough for me to succeed in the new content. Making me question, why I should spend money for content which I can't fullfill, or compete at. The last point that comes with, is the disparity in PvP, which will grow and grow (given constant new items/sets, which are far beyond my reach!) Why spend money on this? :'(

No need to quote / or / to offensively counter speach / This is just one opinion, if you think the game will succeed, than enjoy! I think WoW & final fantasy offer more "difficulty" for the "large masses" of players, who like that type of games..

FENGRUSH

If you need help completing the veteran WGT its mostly mechanics. There isnt a DPS race at any portion of this dungeon actually. So if you "cant do it", its because youre making mistakes.

Im not trying to be mean, but just helpful. Check my stream out if you want to see how its done. We can 3 man vWGT in 30mins. Its a mechanics battle.

Content is easy enough as it is. That isnt to say it was easy for us the first times we went through, it was not. We learned it, we mastered it, now we have to farm it endlessly for drops that never come.

G0ku

FENGRUSH wrote: »

If you need help completing the veteran WGT its mostly mechanics. There isnt a DPS race at any portion of this dungeon actually. So if you "cant do it", its because youre making mistakes.

Im not trying to be mean, but just helpful. Check my stream out if you want to see how its done. We can 3 man vWGT in 30mins. Its a mechanics battle.

Content is easy enough as it is. That isnt to say it was easy for us the first times we went through, it was not. We learned it, we mastered it, now we have to farm it endlessly for drops that never come.

But there is a dps race at the flesh sculptor in prison (atronarch enrage). Or did I miss something about the mechanics there?

@Francescolg : the difficulty of the old dungeons has been clearly lowered, it´s just that your char has been nerfed if you still wear your pre-patch stuff...

Francescolg

G0ku wrote: »

the difficulty of the old dungeons has been clearly lowered, it´s just that your char has been nerfed if you still wear your pre-patch stuff...

Than something has been done wrong, as I've compared many vr 14 to vr 15 set pieces and (exept the enchantments, which are just a little bit stronger but not enough too make a huge difference) I saw no major difference in armor value, etc., exept the nurf to weapon/spell damage, which doesn't bother me at all. I am sorry but there is no major difference in vr 14 and vr15 gear.
I will not post pictures, but just compare them and see yourself.. The same applies to weapons. So I don't see your point!

Soulshine

Wow. This escalated quickly! Jeez people. Why do labels always have to get thrown around every time this comes up?

The issue here is a distinction of what one player thinks is "fun." Most players I know actually like getting their behinds handed to them, lol! They consider that part of the fun of learning the content and do not like to just waltz through a vet mode any more than some of you who say normal mode is too easy.

In an ideal world where MMOs could function like a single player game, the content could be scaled on a slider to account for differing skill levels, but that is not the case with this game unfortunately. So some are asking for a more tiered system.

There are other MMOs which do offer this, and no I am not just talking about WoW. It would be nice to have here and there is nothing wrong with asking for it -- especially if it will help stop the incessant and infernal QQing and nerf demands and accusations that vet mode is too hard, for Pete's sake - so frankly I for one would be in favor of this being added to the game at some point down the road since I do not want vet modes nerfed any more than they already have been.

That being said, in the absence of such an addition however, the only options people have are to keep practicing so as to get better, and meet the content's demand. If that makes some people angry I understand, but it is the reality of the game we have.

Screaming for a reduction in difficulty is not a reasonable demand. If you have to scale these things down from v16 to v5-8 to get them done, that says a lot about what the real issue actually is, and it is not a question of comparable difficulty, it indicative of builds that still need work - which is not a bad thing.

Artis

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Where does this entitlement come from? It's not even like normal and vet COA which have different stories and bosses. Vet and normal ICP and WGT are completely the same, it's just that vet version are a little more challenging. Don't ruin it please. What's your problem? Do normals. I can't understand you. Can anyone please have a dialogue with me till the point when I understand?

"entitlement"... fashion word of the year. Forget it.

If you had read the entire thread and my posts, and understood them (yes might take a bit of effort, understanding others...)... you wouldn't tell me to "do normal".
BECAUSE NORMAL IS TOO EASY.

There's a gap of difficulty between normal and vet versions of these two dungeons that's too big and that gap should be filled.
I'm not saying "remove top 2% elite difficulty level", I say "add something in between for us".

I insist that groups that I know of who cannot complete vWGT and vICP are good, organized, coordinated and teamspeaked.

And you said "there's not much of a difference between VR15 and VR16 gear" ? Of course there is. Don't tell lies. Look at the stats. Try them.

NB : We're not whiners. We're normal people expressing an opinion.

NB2 : "don't ruin it for us, please". Well, your tone doesn't make one want to please you, and secondly, YOU are ruining it for us by wanting your "elite-level" preserved. I don't even want to take it from you. And we are JUST AS content starved as YOU ARE.

Lol I know. that word xD

I did read your posts. So let me get it straight. You want something not as easy as normals but vets are too hard for you? So ask for new mode. Or ask to make normal harder!!!! If the problem is that they are too hard...Don't ask to nerf vets because they are not TOO hard. Some groups beat them, I beat them and I'm no elite.
And no, you don't ask anything new. Here's a quote...

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

IC vet dungeons are TOO HARD, I say it out and loud (even if I completed them myself. I'm not selfish enough to measure everything by my own standards). Please nerf... OR provide an intermediate level of difficulty that drops the VR16 sets and trophies.

You ask to nerf them or just hand gear to you.

I did try them, I don't remember a lot of difference. Maybe in weapons, but weapons are usually crafted or you get them for trophies.. Unfortunately, I'm at a conference now and can't check (my computer with ESO is at home), but please feel free to post some numbers. I really don't think there's significant difference between armor sets.

In addition, and follow me carefully here... You do NOT need vr16 sets. This gear is not required anywhere. You can clear all the existing content WITHOUT vr16 gear. It's not like WoW where you needed new pieces to progress, no. This gear really is only needed by "elite" players who care about a few % of dps and such. My group completed new vet dungeons in vr14 gear mostly. No new sets as it was the first or second week and no one looted much yet (besides, yeah, it was our first-second time in that dungeons, of course we didn't have new v16 sets duh).
So answer 2 questions:
1) Why do you say the new sets are required and have to be vr16?

2) Why do you feel entitlement to have it? What's wrong if there's some gear that can only be obtained by groups that can complete some challenge? According to YOUR logic, it's only 2% of players anyways, so this gear is definitely not required and won't skew balance to the point where you must have so groups take you. And again only 2% => not a lot of people in PvP will have it.

Regarding the tone... Are you humanities major or something? The tone doesn't matter, you need to read the content and the thought that I'm trying to express. Don't expect a foreigner to know how to find approach to you personally and what words to use. My words make sense, that's all you want from a discussion - the infomation/thoughts exchange.

And no matter how it sounds to you... You can insists those groups are good.. But we have a result = they can't complete vet wgt/icp, so the only conclusion here is that they are not as good as they think. I never said my group was good, but I completed it. WGT is all about mechanics. In ICP that dps race on Ibomez is not that difficult if your DPS is decent: with the help of flesh grenades and the occasional help of the 2nd dps and ultis of your healer, you should be able to kill that add. If you can't, how about you ask for an advice about that instead of asking to nerf the place? We (community) can help you to finish that fight. I for one have some things to share if you truly want to complete some challenging content, not just make it easy so you get all the loot without really putting effort like others did..

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

Would you be ok if zos just removed veteran modes? (and send us secret invites, so that only the ones who want challenging content can actually see the dungeons in game. Because once they add something, everyone and their mom want to complete it and you nerf it.)

Thinking of it, actually, YES.
I'd love it if ZOS could take all of you top 2% elitists to a separate server and live your own life there, instead of forcing things, skills and content all the time because you're always pushing the game's mechanics to their edge.
So please, everyone with 20k+ DPS or10K scoring VDSA, please just all go to separate elite server and let us play.

I am by no means elite. My dps is rather low and when I tanked.. let's say, your elitists would not go to vet dsa with me. I spent weeks looking for people in one of my guilds that had a lot of people on leaderboards and no.. However, I have some good players in my friend list, we are no geniuses but teamspeak+teamwork worked for us. We just wanted it a lot, so we spent hours pursuing our goal.. Maybe if your group used teamspeak and didn't disband after 1-2(-3?) hours of wipes, you would complete it?
Because that's how it is. You don't get to complete everything just because you came there and because you completed all old content...
And if there's only 2% elitists, how do they not let you play??? There's ABSOLUTELY no effect on YOUR performance because someone else has 20k dps. Your run is independent and you can have 10 or 30k dps, it does not depend on others... See my point?
And I didn't mean a separate server. Just imagine that vet ICP and WGT are NOT in game and are only accessible to those who want that challenge and don't ask to nerf anything. So you basically don't see it.. so don't ask to nerf it please.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Soulshine wrote: »

That being said, in the absence of such an addition however, the only options people have are to keep practicing so as to get better, and meet the content's demand. If that makes some people angry I understand, but it is the reality of the game we have.

Of course there is another option. Stop playing ! Forever, or just for now. Come back in a couple of weeks when things are nerfed.

Because frankly, you truly believe that 75% of players achieving "Boethia's Scythe" (VDSA achievement) is because they've all practiced and progressed to reach it ? DSA, VDSA, CoH, CoA, Shada's tear, etc. , all these originally hard dungeons, all dungeons in fact, have been progressively nerfed, openly or behind the curtains, to give players a (artificial) sense of progression.

Whether we speak for (or against) nerfing may impact how soon or late they will be nerfed, but they will be nerfed no matter what.

This is a game, it's for fun. I don't mind practicing for progression but it shouldn't be like *work*. So yes I'll probably play less or stop playing or play something else or go for a walk until these dungeons are finally doable. Fun is the delicate path between frustration and boredom (that's a quote from Todd Howard), and at the moment in ESO's dungeons we have the choice between frustration and boredom only.

Problem is, if a player leaves a game, even temporarily, you're never sure he'll be back. And if too many players do the same, the game will have a problem...

Soulshine wrote: »

If you have to scale these things down from v16 to v5-8 to get them done, that says a lot about what the real issue actually is, and it is not a question of comparable difficulty, it indicative of builds that still need work - which is not a bad thing.

Care to explain this assertion please ? Makes no sense to me. IF a boss has less HP, less resistances and deals less damage, we can concentrate more on the mechanics and the entire fight is more forgiving for mistakes. I don't see what anything in that has to do with "builds".

thelordoffelines

Maybe they should just make other vet dungeons as hard as icp and wgt so that way casuals wont expect to complete what was meant for the hardcore.

Soulshine

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

That being said, in the absence of such an addition however, the only options people have are to keep practicing so as to get better, and meet the content's demand. If that makes some people angry I understand, but it is the reality of the game we have.

Of course there is another option. Stop playing ! Forever, or just for now. Come back in a couple of weeks when things are nerfed.

Because frankly, you truly believe that 75% of players achieving "Boethia's Scythe" (VDSA achievement) is because they've all practiced and progressed to reach it ? DSA, VDSA, CoH, CoA, Shada's tear, etc. , all these originally hard dungeons, all dungeons in fact, have been progressively nerfed, openly or behind the curtains, to give players a (artificial) sense of progression.

Whether we speak for (or against) nerfing may impact how soon or late they will be nerfed, but they will be nerfed no matter what.

This is a game, it's for fun. I don't mind practicing for progression but it shouldn't be like *work*. So yes I'll probably play less or stop playing or play something else or go for a walk until these dungeons are finally doable. Fun is the delicate path between frustration and boredom (that's a quote from Todd Howard), and at the moment in ESO's dungeons we have the choice between frustration and boredom only.

Problem is, if a player leaves a game, even temporarily, you're never sure he'll be back. And if too many players do the same, the game will have a problem...

Soulshine wrote: »

If you have to scale these things down from v16 to v5-8 to get them done, that says a lot about what the real issue actually is, and it is not a question of comparable difficulty, it indicative of builds that still need work - which is not a bad thing.

Care to explain this assertion please ? Makes no sense to me. IF a boss has less HP, less resistances and deals less damage, we can concentrate more on the mechanics and the entire fight is more forgiving for mistakes. I don't see what anything in that has to do with "builds".

Well, again - everyone's idea of fun will vary. What you call work, we see a normal part of what is supposed to happen until we get our feet wet. And when I say "we," bear in mind I speak only for myself and every player that I have been with in the game, not 75% of the game population. As is, I highly doubt there are even that many as 75% interested in vet mode dungeons to begin with, given the constant threads about not wanting group content at all...

That said, I get that it is not fun for you. If you want to stop playing, that is of course your or anyone's choice, but it sounds like you don't want to stop so why do it when there is always other things to do like get better at the content?

And by the way, just to put this in perspective a little, Shada's Tear was just a group zone quest in Craglorn which many got done well before the nerf to world VR content. As is, it's just not even comparable to something like vet CoA or DSA, let alone vWGT now. Much of the content achievements by top guilds, of which there are many, pre-date patch notes indicating nerf to bosses and/or mobs. All you have to do is look at leaderboard scores and player achievement dates in their character panels. Making it sound like nobody gets this stuff done unless it is nerfed over time is not exactly being truthful nor fair to all the people that did and have been completing the content without issues.

As for your last question, I'd say it is fairly clear that you already answered it for yourself. But to indulge, your statement seems to imply that simply because the damage you are taking is so much higher, there is an inability to concentrate on mechanics? Why is that? Knowing what the mechanics are from running it on lower levels completed successfully should by definition make you more than prepared for what needs to happen and when. All that is needed by vet cap is to be on level with the mobs for starters, and a decent build to make sure you have sufficient mitigation and HPs. Next comes DPS output on par with the mobs at hand, and adequate tanking and heals - assuming some people will be "standing in stupid" now and then during an panic moment, lol - the rest is about skill at using what you know and communicating with each other.

Leon119

Frankly WGT and ICP were hard the 1st week. After 1 week when we learned the mechanics we finished all achievements besides no death. Then they nerfed them and we got no death too.
We actually ran WGT in 1st person view today for extra challenge... it got boring waaaaay fast. But the drop rates are so low we have to keep spamming it
definetly doesnt feel like 10%....

Slayyer-AUS

Vet dungeons are not to hard learn how to play the game before coming on the forums and whining that it's to hard. There are a lot of builds you can try on the Internet. These dungeons have already been nerfed to the ground it would be sad to see it get nerfed any more.

Justice31st

Don't worry, once the champion points become capped next month. In the future, dungeon difficulties will become a lot more balanced.

Mojmir

Justice31st wrote: »

The game difficulty gap between normal and veteran is too large, ZOS should lower veteran dungeons difficulty and there should be 3 difficulties for ESO dungeons. Normal, Veteran, and Hardcore.

Normal gives normal item drop %, veteran gives veteran items with normal drop %, and hardcore gives increased veteran item drop %.

Problem solved.

Leave the difficulty for this,rename it insanity mode.

Shad0wfire99

Bottom line is, they need to do something with them if they want people to play their new content. When either WGT or Prison comes up as the daily, most people (on console) just skip the daily that day. Good luck finding a group.

sagitter

Bosses and mobs in both normal and veteran version of these 2 new dungs are the same, i could understand maybe it was 2 completly different dungeons, but just difficult changes. So it's ok that veteran version must be harder than normal versione , like arena.

sagitter

statisticalanomaly13ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bottom line is, they need to do something with them if they want people to play their new content. When either WGT or Prison comes up as the daily, most people (on console) just skip the daily that day. Good luck finding a group.

Even if these dungs are vet dailies, you can still do it normal mode version and you'll get the silver key, better than nothing silver has the chance to give you an undaunted piece, yesterday gave it molag keena divine shoulders to me.

Nifty2g

DenMoria wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Normal was made for you
Veteran is veteran mode for harder content

Definition of Veteran

a person who has had long experience in a particular field.

In other words if you're casual then this harder content mode is probably not the choice for you as it was designed to fit the players who have been around for awhile

Or for players that play obsessively (not meant negatively - just meaning they play every day, all day and dedicate themselves to it).

We casuals just have to deal with it. Sure it might take me 20 years to get to anywhere near the level that's needed to even attempt most of those high level dungeons and campaigns, but, hey, at least it's a goal. The problem is that they'll keep raising the bar so I'll never catch up.

Hey! Maybe that's the point! Keep moving the carrot a little higher and we'll keep coming back! Now that's a good business model.

Point of an MMO is to keep both parties happy which is why they made Veteran and Normal. Asking one part of the party to match the other doesn't work.
Sorry but that's just not fair if you ask me

What isn't fair? I used to think that it wasn't fair that I couldn't be as powerful as some of the more hardcore players and that they had an unfair advantage, but, I've gotten over that. Most of the truly high level (v10-v16) players have been at it a long time and put a lot of work in to it. Sure, I probably will never catch up with them in my lifetime, but, then again, I am extremely casual.

Most of the game is far to hard for me (but then again, I'm a pretty bad player), but that doesn't really change my enjoyment. I've come to the conclusion that there are just better players (and often they have some great tips!) and that I should just play to enjoy. When it gets to the point where I'm so frustrated that I want to throw my controller out the window, I take a break.

I'm not an MMO fan, myself, being a misanthrope and anti-social with my gaming, but, ESO, in my opinion, has done a pretty good job at this. Sure there are issues, but, it is a huge game and keeping everybody happy must be something else.

You can't see why it isn't fair that the top players can't have a challenge and are forced to faceroll everything because of the players who are unable to complete content which is clearly labeled to be the hardest content in the game? That seems fair to you? If content is too hard for you which you are admitting it's too hard for you, and others are able to complete it then that's a problem on your end not others. Simply learn your class and what does the highest damage, it honestly isn't hard there are many guides on TamrielFoundry.

Belidos

I'm a fairly casual player and I've no problem with veteran dungeons being too hard. They're meant to be hard, they're for the hard core players to challenge themselves in.

The issue for me is that what we have at the moment is "easy mode" and "hard mode", although it's called normal mode it's really an easy mode, what we need is for normal dungeons to be renamed as easy dungeons and a third set of dungeons half way between the difficulty of the two existing to be added in between and called normal dungeons.

Nifty2g

If anything, ZOS should buff the normal version of the dungeons, slightly increasing damage and health

DerpyShadowz

Nifty2g wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Point of an MMO is to keep both parties happy which is why they made Veteran and Normal. Asking one part of the party to match the other doesn't work.
Sorry but that's just not fair if you ask me

Agree. Still look at how incredibly easy normal mode is, and how difficult the vet version is ? There's something missing in between for the "normal-good-though-not-excellent-player".

SO either ZOS adds another difficulty level to choose from and leave the current vet level labeled "hardcore", or they nerf the current vet level to something more reachable by the top 30% players (and not only the top 2%).

I suggested a Nightmare Mode for the top 2% of players but probably wont come in for awhile honestly if at all.

Id love this nightmare mode, But the same problem will arise, Casual players complaining its too hard

Xantaria

The title already gives an answer.

Are you a Veteran if you are a casual? NO!

Heathenpride

Forget the Vet Dungeons, it's the bosses in IC that hit me for 50k damage that I have a problem with... Honestly, I can't imagine ever getting that much health (V11 shortly) and being able to sustain that sort of damage lol

Maybe a 3rd dungeon levelling option of "you'll need mad skillz for this one bro's" could be implemented and that can cater to those folks who like getting rogered by bosses on the regular

anitajoneb17_ESO

I Highlander l wrote: »

Id love this nightmare mode, But the same problem will arise, Casual players complaining its too hard

No, because they would have the "vet non-nightmare" version.
Nobody ever complained that the HM versions of trials were "too hard". Because it did not prevent the average crowd from completing the non-HM versions and access the gear (admittedly in purple and not in gold like in the weekly rewards, but everyone can live with that).

The current "normal" version is not an alternative because it is too easy and doesn't drop the gear and trophies.

Xantaria wrote: »

Are you a Veteran if you are a casual? NO!

Since when is "veteran" a synonym for "hardcore", or "elite", or "very good", or "experienced" ? (In the context of this game).

I have this problem with my guildies, you see. How often do I hear "but I just got my templar to VR16 with VR16 gear, thus I can do that content"... and I have to (painfully-carefully) explain "No, you can't. Part of your character's performance does depend on you as a player and not on its stats, and you're not good enough yet. If we take you the whole group will wipe. Let's practice something easier... ".
Then more often than not the person insists "But I did Spindleclutch at VR16 no problem !! It's a VR16 vet dungeon too ! you just want to exclude me ! blah blah..."

So, to summarize :
- There is a huge gap between normal ICP/WGT and vetICP/vetWGT that leaves a whole portion of players (not casual, not bad, pretty good, just not excellent) completely left out.
- There is nothing to enjoy between boredom and frustration
- There is a huge gap between VR16 vet dungeons like Spindleclutch and VR16 vICP /vWGT even though they're all officially "labelled" identically in terms of level required.

I don't want to take anything away from elite players. I just want something adequately calibrated for the level "just below" (NOT "casual", whatever that means).

This problem is currently tearing entire guilds apart !

@ZOS_RichLambert , please read and consider. This is not a small issue.

TayDibiase

Why do casual players feel like they should be able to complete the same content as hardcore players? With anything in life, those that practice more, spend more time on the task, tend to do better. That applies to academics, athletics, singing, acting, even playing games. There are those who are naturally gifted and dont need to practice as much but for the most part practice makes perfect. So instead of ruining the difficulty for hardcore players by asking for a nerf to appease your challenge level, how about asking for a medium difficulty level to be added. And i haven't made it passed the planar in vet white gold yet, but i welcome the challenge.

anitajoneb17_ESO

TayDibiase wrote: »

Why do casual players feel like they should be able to complete the same content as hardcore players? With anything in life, those that practice more, spend more time on the task, tend to do better. That applies to academics, athletics, singing, acting, even playing games. There are those who are naturally gifted and dont need to practice as much but for the most part practice makes perfect. So instead of ruining the difficulty for hardcore players by asking for a nerf to appease your challenge level, how about asking for a medium difficulty level to be added.

How about reading the entire thread before jumping to conclusions as to people's intentions and be rude to them ?

Asking for a medium level is exactly what we are doing.

You can enjoy athletics without having to be olympics level and still participate in a national competition.

TayDibiase

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

TayDibiase wrote: »

Why do casual players feel like they should be able to complete the same content as hardcore players? With anything in life, those that practice more, spend more time on the task, tend to do better. That applies to academics, athletics, singing, acting, even playing games. There are those who are naturally gifted and dont need to practice as much but for the most part practice makes perfect. So instead of ruining the difficulty for hardcore players by asking for a nerf to appease your challenge level, how about asking for a medium difficulty level to be added.

How about reading the entire thread before jumping to conclusions as to people's intentions and be rude to them ?

Asking for a medium level is exactly what we are doing.

You can enjoy athletics without having to be olympics level and still participate in a national competition.

Please enlighten me. What was rude about my post?

anitajoneb17_ESO

TayDibiase wrote: »

Please enlighten me. What was rude about my post?

If you can't be sensitive enough to see it for yourself, I can't help you much, and I don't want to lead this thread off-topic.
Just read thread and don't accuse people of not suggesting things that they actually ARE suggesting.

Spearshard

The biggest problems with the difficulty of ICP and WGT is that 1: there is necessary gear gated behind them, and 2:they are in the pledge rotation. For those who CAN complete them on vet, that's fantastic that you get 2 gold keys. But for the majority of players they are screwed out of a chance to get the gear to GET them to the level to complete these dungeons. The rng is abysmal enough on undaunted chests, but to forgo the chance at it is even worse. And the argument "well you still get a silver key" is not a valid argument. The chance at any given shoulder piece on gold is bad enoufh, let alone the one you actually want, but on silver it's next to useless.
It's a badly designed system. It's not the casual''s fsult, nor the hard core player''s fault. Each deserves the opportunity to obtain gear, and the hardcore deserve a challenge. The argument, we'll normal gets you v15 gear, that's ok....no offense we all know v15 is pointless. It has almost no added power, and the v16 is necessary to run these pledges.
I'm a casual, I have maybe 2 hours about every other day to play. However I am familiar with game mexhamocs, I have a v16 character that is 1 piece away from a full v16 geared character. I also can pull 14-19k single target damage on most mobs. So here''s the thing. ICP and WGT are dps checks, but not only that, champion point checks. I've run each several times and always after we leave ask, "what's your dps, and what's your cp number." I always get the same answer. The same situation that happens to me. My dps drops from that 14-19k to 4-8k in the new dungeons. Why? I simply don't have enough cp allocated to get extra passives and armor pen.
I've studied the vids as have many of the people I've run it with. We understand the mechanics. And as we don't have the punch to get bosses down, or adds down we end up wiping. And to those who say, it's not a dps race, EVERY encounter is. The longer a fight goes the greater the chance a mistake will happen. I'm not saying nerf the dungeons, I complete every pledge except these two, and after the catchup mechanoc, and I have more cp''s I'll go back and get these too. I just think that the hardcore players need to understand the situation and not ridicule casuals with the usual l2p mentality, especially since most of you probably have gotten so used to the power your cp''s give you, you don't have to worry. If someone can post a video, or point to one that shows a group who has done this with 80-100 cp''s I'll happily admit I'm wrong. But I really don't think it's just a l2p thing