How about a slight change to Tel Var stones looting off other players?

rfennell_ESO

Just use the Tel Var stone modifier to set the % of stones taken.

1-25%
2-50%
3-75%
4-100%

I just feel the fact you can run around with all your stones banked and take all the stones you currently get to take is a bit of a joke.

This would add some risk versus the reward.

jelliedsoup

Need to have an opt in option~ percentages won't work,

SahrotRein

I think that's a good idea as people usually carry x2 - x3 worth of TVS for the multiplier and there have been complains about the 90% percentage lost when dying to a player. This would reduce it to 50% - 75%.

But ofcourse gankers will always disagree.

Spliffo

Ah no sorry. It should be 100% loss

Legedric

No, just no. Hell no!

As a PvP player I am already forced to PvE the hell out of this PvE DLC called Imperial City to get the new VR 16 gear.
Killing other players to get stones instead of mind numbing mob grinding is the only thing for me to get progress from actual PvP in the Imperial City.

Dare you ZOS to comfort the whiners and PvE carebears again.

If anything, change it this way:
1-80%
2-85%
3-90%
4-100%

mhasanbulli

Legedric wrote: »

No, just no. Hell no!

As a PvP player I am already forced to PvE the hell out of this PvE DLC called Imperial City to get the new VR 16 gear.
Killing other players to get stones instead of mind numbing mob grinding is the only thing for me to get progress from actual PvP in the Imperial City.

Dare you ZOS to comfort the whiners and PvE carebears again.

If anything, change it this way:
1-80%
2-85%
3-90%
4-100%

What's up with you PVP guys calling PVE people carebears? Jesus. Relax. OP is making a suggestion.

Legedric

And I am posting my opinion about it so what's up with you?

ContraTempo

Legedric wrote: »

No, just no. Hell no!

As a PvP player I am already forced to PvE the hell out of this PvE DLC called Imperial City to get the new VR 16 gear.
Killing other players to get stones instead of mind numbing mob grinding is the only thing for me to get progress from actual PvP in the Imperial City.

Dare you ZOS to comfort the whiners and PvE carebears again.

If anything, change it this way:
1-80%
2-85%
3-90%
4-100%

Uhm, you do know that *somebody* still has to do that "mind numbing mob grinding" you speak of to get those stones, right? Plus more of it once you take their stones. I don't suppose that matters to you. But wait; it turns out there are more of them than there are of you. So if we were voting -- or if ZoS is just looking out for their own financial best interest -- they take care of the "carebears" first so they keep getting lots of nice juicy subscriptions and crown store buys.

At least that's what happens if ZoS has to make a choice. OR maybe it's better to find solutions that work for everyone.

Artis

Legedric wrote: »

No, just no. Hell no!

As a PvP player I am already forced to PvE the hell out of this PvE DLC called Imperial City to get the new VR 16 gear.
Killing other players to get stones instead of mind numbing mob grinding is the only thing for me to get progress from actual PvP in the Imperial City.

And pve players are not happy with losing everything because they just can't pvp.
And don't lie to yourself, IC(the city+sewers) is not pve, it's just grind. It doesn't have interesting fights/mechanics and you are not forced to grind WGT or ICP. So.. There should be a compromise.

So far it's unfair and you are at advantage, actually. The difference is that you CAN grind you just don't want to. The majority of players CAN'T pvp. They can only get stones grinding and then players like you take them. And since there're still no duels/arenas/battlegrounds it is really problematic to train and learn to pvp for us. You won't learn anything if you just get steamrolled by a zerg or a group or even 1 player who's experienced.

Legedric

Oh I never said that IC is an exciting DLC with new mechanics etc.

In fact, as a PvP palyer I am very much disappointed of this DLC as I have to go grind mobs to get TV stones safely, grind mobs to get VR16 gear drops I may salvage to get crafting mats, grind mobs to get trophies for VR16 jewelry, grind dailies to get new VR16 undaunted pieces.

Well, I think you understand where my upset mood has its source, right?

I enjoyed Cyrodiil so much pre IC but now it's more or less dead on most campaigns and in addition... I don't have the tiniest chance to advance in progress (gear) doing PvP other than killing players and hoping for Tel Var stones.
Even TV stones only provide very limited progress if you completed your set or got all mats for your new gear.
So I am already forced to grind PvE. As a Stamina based user it hits me even harder due to the bad drop rates of trophies for Stamina jewelry but that's another story.

So PvP is providng most fun for me (and many other PvP players) in ESO and the TV stones from players are a "bonus" to get at least some reward from PvP to advance our gear (as AP are useless now). Take or nerf this down for us and we are forced to do even more PvE which may lead to give up on this game as we are forced to do things that are less fun for us.

I know the majority of ESO players may be PvE related and the PvE players always benefited in the past in ESO as they were never forced to do active PvP to get any progress (and you still aren't). They were even able to buy PvP/AP gear from a guild store opposing to the fact that us PvP players were driven to do PvE to get undaunted sets.

PvE players are still not forced into PvP with IC (and that's ok for me). You can still farm TV stones pretty safely, go bank them often, use some certain skills (like radiant mage light - helps a ton against NB let me tell you that!) and be on your toes to bail at any time and you are pretty much golden for most of the time.
If you are too risky with your stones, you deserve to get them taken away or better be moderate at PvP to defend them. Don't take the little fun and reward we got from IC away from us, pelase!

Getting TV stones from PvP is actually the only progress orientated benefit the PvP players get from their preferred part of the game after this "PvP" DLC which is more like a PvE grind fest than anything else.

I mean, how would the oh so many PvE players react if you would be forced to do PvP to get new VR16 gear, etc. and someone makes a proposal that shrinks your PvE progress even more on top of that?

Firerock2

Legedric wrote: »

No, just no. Hell no!

As a PvP player I am already forced to PvE the hell out of this PvE DLC called Imperial City to get the new VR 16 gear.
Killing other players to get stones instead of mind numbing mob grinding is the only thing for me to get progress from actual PvP in the Imperial City.

Dare you ZOS to comfort the whiners and PvE carebears again.

If anything, change it this way:
1-80%
2-85%
3-90%
4-100%

As a PvP player I have to agree with the OP. It's incredibly stupid that there is no risk for gankers. If you want to get stones from other players then you should have to carry them as well. This supports the risk vs reward playstyle of PvP.


Your idea for 80%-1 personally to me sounds like the dumbest idea ever. That is completely unfair to those who will actually be doing the grinding. PvP needs risk and right now there really isn't much since you can just jump any PvE grinder and steal almost all their stones. BTW nobody likes grinding, but mostly everyone is being forced to with this update.

Your attitude offends me and I find it most foul

Farorin

The only changes to TV stone loss from PVP that I support are increasing the loss rate.

Firerock2

Farorin wrote: »

The only changes to TV stone loss from PVP that I support are increasing the loss rate.

Then what is the risk for PvP players who can go and get tons of stones without carrying any of their own?

Legedric

The risk is loosing the stones they got from players as well?

And on a side note: My proposal wasn't serious... The loss rate was by the way at 100% on PTS iirc and they already reduced it to 80% after many players complained...

Firerock2

Legedric wrote: »

The risk is loosing the stones they got from players as well?

And on a side note: My proposal wasn't serious... The loss rate was by the way at 100% on PTS iirc and they already reduced it to 80% after many players complained...

There is no initial risk for the ganker. If you want to gain something then you should have to risk something for that gain. Say some NB jumps a farmer and gets 2k stones when he set out with nothing. If he loses them before teleporting back to base then he will have gained nothing but also lost nothing. If he is forced to at least get 100 stones before PvPing to get a x2 bonus then he would at least have to risk his own stones in order to get a significant amount from somebody else.

In a risk vs reward system losing the reward isn't counted as the risk because you wouldn't actually be losing anything. You would be right back where you started, no gain but also no loss. This is the problem with current IC PvP

Legedric

Well, my opinion is the initial risk of the ganker is making his/her way to the enemy, probably spending hours/wasting time without getting a single kill that carries stones just because the ganker wants to use IC what it was announced for: PvP.

So the risk for a PvP player is wasting time and going home with nothing while trying to play the game he/she likes it most.
Same for PvE player. A PvE player is spending time grinding stones and trophies and has the risk to go home just with trophies (which is even more as the PvP player gets) when he risks too much with his TV in his bags.

Yes, you may be right that my opinion is a bit off but that's my individual opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

silky_soft

Change it back to 100 and whoever does most damage. Non of this last hit by a mob bizo.

lathbury

I agree the ganker should need to have some stones to gain some.

rfennell_ESO

For what it's worth I have tons of stones in bank and I've bought about 12 greater tel var lockboxes and like 3 sets of gear.

I don't grind stones. I take them.

I just think me banking every big haul and going back out to take some more is really NOT the best way of distribution.

My opinion is that to get the bulk of stones off someone I should have to not be carrying zero due the fact that their is no real risk on my part.

For whatever reason I happened to look at the multiplier and thought, that might be a good way of balancing it a little.

Spliffo

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

For what it's worth I have tons of stones in bank and I've bought about 12 greater tel var lockboxes and like 3 sets of gear.

I don't grind stones. I take them.

I just think me banking every big haul and going back out to take some more is really NOT the best way of distribution.

My opinion is that to get the bulk of stones off someone I should have to not be carrying zero due the fact that their is no real risk on my part.

For whatever reason I happened to look at the multiplier and thought, that might be a good way of balancing it a little.

Your sir are not a ganker

TX12001rwb17_ESO

How about have it so if you kill an enemy player or they kill you the defeated only loses 10% of there stones just like NPCs, I do wonder though why if I lose hundreds of Tel Var stones to a single NPC why do I not get all of them back when I get up and kill them?

byrom101b16_ESO

Why do the hardcore PvP players insist on calling this mixed PvE/PvP expansion a pure PvP expansion? ZOS designed it as a mixed expansion and even call it that on their website ('PvP in a PvE environment') but because someone on a webcast said it was a PvP expansion (flying in the face of all the evidence to the contrary) they go on and on about how it's 'theirs'.

Presumably because that's all they care about and all they can see after voluntarily putting on their PvP blinkers.

It is remarkably difficult to respect or constructively engage with an argument that only ever attempts to see the issue from one side.

As for PK looting of TV Stones, the idea that such high reward should be available from zero risk is a joke. Many PvP'ers on these forums make a big noise about how it's all 'skill based', but neglect to admit they are sitting in IC zerging (zero skill) or camping spawn points (zero skill) with no stones on them.

They then have the hypocrisy to wail about PvE carebears whose activities they nevertheless gleefully exploit as their main source of TV Stones.

FACT Players only generate TV Stones from Mob kills, and PK'ers only get these if the other player is carrying them.

OF COURSE TV Stones carried should determine the amount you get from a PK!

Anyone suggesting otherwise is entirely self-serving and wants to exploit a badly designed system, and no amount of stating otherwise changes the fact.

If you don't risk, you shouldn't receive.

If you are too much of a wimp to do that, if you camp spawn points without TV Stones on you or zerg small PvE'ing groups in the sewers, jump people using chests (just as the chest becomes unlocked) or ambush people just after a boss kill, then don't bother complaining that PvE'ers are ruining 'your' expansion - you are exploiting them plenty already and getting risk-free benefits.

If you wanted a real challenge you'd go to the Memorial District et al and skirmish... but then as it's the most popular area for PURE PvP - you know damn well you'll hardly get any TV Stones don't ya!?

We've heard enough doubletalk from the lot of you...

Spliffo

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Why do the hardcore PvP players insist on calling this mixed PvE/PvP expansion a pure PvP expansion? ZOS designed it as a mixed expansion and even call it that on their website ('PvP in a PvE environment') but because someone on a webcast said it was a PvP expansion (flying in the face of all the evidence to the contrary) they go on and on about how it's 'theirs'.

Presumably because that's all they care about and all they can see after voluntarily putting on their PvP blinkers.

It is remarkably difficult to respect or constructively engage with an argument that only ever attempts to see the issue from one side.

As for PK looting of TV Stones, the idea that such high reward should be available from zero risk is a joke. Many PvP'ers on these forums make a big noise about how it's all 'skill based', but neglect to admit they are sitting in IC zerging (zero skill) or camping spawn points (zero skill) with no stones on them.

They then have the hypocrisy to wail about PvE carebears whose activities they nevertheless gleefully exploit as their main source of TV Stones.

FACT Players only generate TV Stones from Mob kills, and PK'ers only get these if the other player is carrying them.

OF COURSE TV Stones carried should determine the amount you get from a PK!

Anyone suggesting otherwise is entirely self-serving and wants to exploit a badly designed system, and no amount of stating otherwise changes the fact.

If you don't risk, you shouldn't receive.

If you are too much of a wimp to do that, if you camp spawn points without TV Stones on you or zerg small PvE'ing groups in the sewers, jump people using chests (just as the chest becomes unlocked) or ambush people just after a boss kill, then don't bother complaining that PvE'ers are ruining 'your' expansion - you are exploiting them plenty already and getting risk-free benefits.

If you wanted a real challenge you'd go to the Memorial District et al and skirmish... but then as it's the most popular area for PURE PvP - you know damn well you'll hardly get any TV Stones don't ya!?

We've heard enough doubletalk from the lot of you...

Not getting any bro? You need to look away from the screen for a minute and take a few deep calming breaths.
It's ok you will get more stones, the person that took yours won't be there every time

Sausage

lathbury wrote: »

I agree the ganker should need to have some stones to gain some.

Same here. I was thinking they should make limit how many stone you can loot from player per day, but this is much better. Ganking is currently riskless, but hard to say how many would gank if there was a risk. Ultimately this is L2P issue, its not so hard to check if theres ganker around.

Zanfire

I feel the actual Stones gain from PVP kills is a bit weird.

I think it works very well when thinking about very few players, like one or two nightblades stalking around and killing few enemies here and there while both farm mobs.

But it become a bit silly when bigger groups fight other groups, as, in the end, the overall result comes usually to be a complete loss of stones for both sides, especially in the outside IC enviroment (not sewers), where those very near faction spawning points allows for a continuos respawn/kill/die mechanic. The stealthed group member that throw an arrow here and there without dying once is perhaps able to accumulate any Stone.

I think adjustment should be done to this phenomenon, perhaps handling enemies players somehow like a mob, allowing for the killers to gain stones even if he don't have any on them (i.e.: a killed enemy player always rewards 1 stone, obviusly divided among killer as it actually is, and not rewarding any stone if repeatedly killed, as is for AP).

Anyway, I agree with who suggest to modify the stones loss based on the actual amount of stones a character is carrying. I think the more you have, the more you should loose if you're pvp killed: if you take a bigger risk, you suffer bigger consequence. On the opposed side, I think the cautious player, who go back to base to depost stones, should be rewarded.

So, my % are more like this, as I agree with the OP ones:

x1: 30% (0-99 stones)
x2: 55% (100-999 stones)
x3: 80% (1000-9999 stones)
x4: 100% (or 99%) (10000+ stones)

Legedric

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Why do the hardcore PvP players insist on calling this mixed PvE/PvP expansion a pure PvP expansion? ZOS designed it as a mixed expansion and even call it that on their website ('PvP in a PvE environment') but because someone on a webcast said it was a PvP expansion (flying in the face of all the evidence to the contrary) they go on and on about how it's 'theirs'.

Presumably because that's all they care about and all they can see after voluntarily putting on their PvP blinkers.

Because the IC was meant for PvP in the first place (after they decided to redesign it) and because it was meant to be the first ever addition to PvP in ESO.

ESO had several additions to PvE for 1.5 years and nothing for PvP, that's why many PvP players desperately try to wrap their fingers aroudn everything that's putting PvP (players) in an advantageous position over PvE.

Might be hard to understand for some others but when you wait for so long for anything to happen to PvP and then see this DLC go nearly full PvE you want to hold on everything that's tied to PvP in IC.

With TV stones being the only thing pulling PvE players somewhat out of their comfort zone and the loss factor already been reduced from 100% to 80% due to excessive complaints you can't really tell us PvP players that WE are the ones being selfish here when we try to keep this TV system how it is to benefit from it. This is the somewhat last thing that doesn't fully enforce PvP players to grind repetative PvE but let others grind for us instead and kill them on a somewhat random occasion.

############################

Ok, let's say I agree to the OP, go for it and change the multiplicator system as it has been proposed.

But my proposal would then be, to add trophies to it at least in the same way. Yes. I want to get trophies from player kills on the same basis as TV stones. Maybe even only half way to limit the complaints and overall whining.

So to make it clear, that's what I am talking about:
1-25% of TV stones and 10% of trophies (random from trophies in your bag)
2-50% of TV stones and 25% of trophies
3-75% of TV stones and 35% of trophies
4-100% of TV stones and 50% of trophies

TV stones count towards the multiplicator as they do today, trophies count *10 so 1 trophy counts for 10 TV stones.

Example:
Player A carries 250 TV stones and 76 trophies of any kind
His multiplicator is at "3" because the 76 trophies count as much as 760 TV stones resulting in a total of 1010 points for the multiplicator.

Yes, I know, the system would be way more complex to develop and somewhat weird but I am locing ESO's PvP as much as I hate some of the PvE parts of it and the IC DLC is 90% PvE having the 10% for TV stones from PK.

byrom101b16_ESO

Spliffo wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Why do the hardcore PvP players insist on calling this mixed PvE/PvP expansion a pure PvP expansion? ZOS designed it as a mixed expansion and even call it that on their website ('PvP in a PvE environment') but because someone on a webcast said it was a PvP expansion (flying in the face of all the evidence to the contrary) they go on and on about how it's 'theirs'.

Presumably because that's all they care about and all they can see after voluntarily putting on their PvP blinkers.

It is remarkably difficult to respect or constructively engage with an argument that only ever attempts to see the issue from one side.

As for PK looting of TV Stones, the idea that such high reward should be available from zero risk is a joke. Many PvP'ers on these forums make a big noise about how it's all 'skill based', but neglect to admit they are sitting in IC zerging (zero skill) or camping spawn points (zero skill) with no stones on them.

They then have the hypocrisy to wail about PvE carebears whose activities they nevertheless gleefully exploit as their main source of TV Stones.

FACT Players only generate TV Stones from Mob kills, and PK'ers only get these if the other player is carrying them.

OF COURSE TV Stones carried should determine the amount you get from a PK!

Anyone suggesting otherwise is entirely self-serving and wants to exploit a badly designed system, and no amount of stating otherwise changes the fact.

If you don't risk, you shouldn't receive.

If you are too much of a wimp to do that, if you camp spawn points without TV Stones on you or zerg small PvE'ing groups in the sewers, jump people using chests (just as the chest becomes unlocked) or ambush people just after a boss kill, then don't bother complaining that PvE'ers are ruining 'your' expansion - you are exploiting them plenty already and getting risk-free benefits.

If you wanted a real challenge you'd go to the Memorial District et al and skirmish... but then as it's the most popular area for PURE PvP - you know damn well you'll hardly get any TV Stones don't ya!?

We've heard enough doubletalk from the lot of you...

Not getting any bro? You need to look away from the screen for a minute and take a few deep calming breaths.
It's ok you will get more stones, the person that took yours won't be there every time

I am not your 'bro', nor I suspect would I choose to be.

More to the point - I have for some time now attained all the vet 16 gear I require, all enchanted just the way I want, and everything of use to me that TV Stones will ever buy me. I have my full neck/rings gear. Any TV Stones I get now are no more than a way of buying stuff to sell for gold...

... and I can't think of anything important I need extra gold for either.

So in future, might I suggest that you try to add to the debate instead of posting useless supposition in support of a 'school playground' attempt at a put-down.

Spliffo

Ok so you have no need for stones at all so why are you making comments about how they should be acquired, it seems to that you have progressed past this part of content.

Back on topic, those who are asking for the 80% loss to be reduced let me remind you that this was announced as a pvp update with 100% loss from PK. ZOS gave in the pressure from the PVE community and reduced it. If you do not wish to risk stones simply go into a buff campaign.

As for gankers well majority of them spend 99% of their time in a pvp zone and have little wish to farm npcs to be able gather a so called pvp currency so why force them to by making them first gain a multiplier

JoffyToffy69

They shouldn't have added a new currency. Simple. Leave it at AP. Make AP still relevant. Then there wouldn't be the loss, complaints etc.
As a pvper, it has died off since IC.
I used to run down to the gate and have reds try and get through. It was fun and simple. Plenty of action and it was a good challenge.
Now it is dead. I don't want to gank. I'm a mage. I run around in full view and i don't get attacked. Even in IC.
So as soon as I find someone I hunt them down. I feel bad, but thats what pvp is now.

Legedric

Indeed, AP are useless now as the gear didn't get pushed to VR16 and there are no new items you can buy for AP at all.

I do understand why they didn't want to buy us gear from AP when there are players sitting at 10+ milion AP right now being able to insta-buy everything but they could have put some more thought into it and give AP at least some use in IC other than port stones that you don't even need when you know how to switch a campaign...

code65536

Legedric wrote: »

No, just no. Hell no!

As a PvP player I am already forced to PvE the hell out of this PvE DLC called Imperial City to get the new VR 16 gear.
Killing other players to get stones instead of mind numbing mob grinding is the only thing for me to get progress from actual PvP in the Imperial City.

Dare you ZOS to comfort the whiners and PvE carebears again.

If anything, change it this way:
1-80%
2-85%
3-90%
4-100%

So, instead, have someone else do the mind-numbing grind, and then take their stones? You make it sound like PvE players actually like this grind. Nobody does. You just want your easy ticket out. Well, fine, if you want that easy ticket, then pony up and carry enough stones for a 4x multiplier.

And as someone who does a bit of PvP as well, I prefer sportsmanship in PvP. Yes, I'm one of those nightblades who cloak through the city, but I never attack anyone if I see that all they're doing is PvE. Now, if they're a PvPer, I have no qualms with fighting them, but I don't get any fun out of fighting someone who doesn't know how to PvP and didn't want to PvP, because that isn't real PvP--that would just be me being a d-bag.