Do you think the destruction staff needs a buff?

Stannum

Dracane wrote: »

Heavy attacks don't restore 10% Magicka and are not fast, they are very VERY slow. Restoration staff heavy attack is much faster and restores more, but both is a DPS killer.

Can you read?
Destro full heavy is 10% faster via passive. So if you are empty you'll get a new portion of magika 10% faster then any other weapon. Restro regain MORE magika with full heavy, so it's faster in avarage. But full heavy destro still faster on one use.

Nadestepper

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

exellent passives:
1 penetrating magic = free enemy resist debuf for destro damage which can stack with other debuffs
2 elemental force = free effects/DotS without non-boss immunities (2H or DW can apply bleed but undead mobs are immune)
3 destro expert = totaly OP passive as it returns really tons of magika
4 and if you managed to run out of magika (it's really very difficult with destro) you can recharge with full heavy 10% faster then eny jther weapon.
good actives:
1 touch distant instant attack + DoT + CC
2 forse shock - may be the best 28m spam
3 weakness to elements - either endless debuff or returning magika debuf
4 elemental ring - still one of the best AoE with destro passives (lots of effect proc + magika return)

Penetrating magic is the only passive I agree with you on. It allows you to bypass 10% of spell resistance, but this is not useful if there is not a destruction staff move that does very much damage. Elemental force would be good if DoTs were effective in PvP. Destro Expert only works if you do a heavy weave and hit a target, so your best bet would be to use a lighting staff for this, because fire and ice are easily dodgeable. A full weave is also easily interruptable and does not do enough damage compared to medium weaves to make it worthwhile to do. Destructive Touch has a DoT, which is easy to get rid of. There are many ways to get rid of most DoTs like sorc barrier, purge, nb cloak, etc. It is pretty widely acknowledged that DoTs are not as good as they need to be in PvP. Force Shocks damage is just bad. I don't think I have seen a 2k hit with it post IC patch in my damage reports. Weakness to Elements is a good skill no complaints there. Elemental ring is not useable in pvp due to low damage and again DoTs are basically worthless. I think your post might be leaning more towards PvE while I am talking more about PvP.

SturgeHammer

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

Yes. I feel like the Champ System has made elemental damage from abilities like force shock hit about as hard as silly string in pvp.

tennotsukai87

I agree with the buff but isn't it possible to light/medium weave with staff through range attacks? Wouldn't the additional damage from said method produce more damage than 2 swords, since staff attacks are based on magicka and would be giving you easier obtained ultimate? I'm only saying this because I'm not the best expert out there on staves or the game for that matter and would like to be corrected.

Stannum

Nadestepper wrote: »

Destro Expert only works if you do a heavy weave and hit a target, so your best bet would be to use a lighting staff for this, because fire and ice are easily dodgeable. A full weave is also easily interruptable and does not do enough damage compared to medium weaves to make it worthwhile to do.

Destro expert returns you magika for any destro skill kill not only for light/heavy. It' s perfect in PvE with swarms of mobs the more mobs you kill the more magika you get.

Dracane

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Heavy attacks don't restore 10% Magicka and are not fast, they are very VERY slow. Restoration staff heavy attack is much faster and restores more, but both is a DPS killer.

Can you read?
Destro full heavy is 10% faster via passive. So if you are empty you'll get a new portion of magika 10% faster then any other weapon. Restro regain MORE magika with full heavy, so it's faster in avarage. But full heavy destro still faster on one use.

Right.

But it is NOT faster. It is slower in fact, the passive does nothing.
Don't look at writing, test it in game and wisdom will find you. Compare restoration heavy and destruction heavy and tell me what you see

Joy_Division

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

dsalter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Even the passives aren't very good. People don't care about fully charged heavy attacks.

actually i use shock based ones on my storm sorc in pvp clusters, makes a mess

Well, you probably will be disappointed to know that the lighting heavy attack ability, which the PTS patch notes claimed was supposed to hit up to 6 adjacent targets with a heavy attack, is in fact hitting zero.

Nadestepper

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Destro expert returns you magika for any destro skill kill not only for light/heavy. It' s perfect in PvE with swarms of mobs the more mobs you kill the more magika you get.

Yeah that is right I was thinking about the resto passive. This is a good skill for PvE, but not for PvP and I am more focused on the PvP aspect. You also have to get the killing blow I believe.

Joy_Division

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Nadestepper wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

There's no right option in the poll to choose.

Really bug when 2H\DW adds spell dmg (and even more then staves) should be fixed.
Destro now has good set of active skills and exelent passives.

Which active skills do you think are good? Which passives do you think are excellent? How and what destruction staff skills are on par with other weapon skills? Please be more detailed with your responses. I also don't think that the spell damage is a bug. Spell damage comes directly from the damage stat from the weapon, same as physical damage. Currently a two handed weapon will give the user over 200 more spell power than the staff without counting certain spell power percent increases given by passives in things like the mages guild tree and class trees.

exellent passives:
1 penetrating magic = free enemy resist debuf for destro damage which can stack with other debuffs
2 elemental force = free effects/DotS without non-boss immunities (2H or DW can apply bleed but undead mobs are immune)
3 destro expert = totaly OP passive as it returns really tons of magika
4 and if you managed to run out of magika (it's really very difficult with destro) you can recharge with full heavy 10% faster then eny jther weapon.
good actives:
1 touch distant instant attack + DoT + CC
2 forse shock - may be the best 28m spam
3 weakness to elements - either endless debuff or returning magika debuf
4 elemental ring - still one of the best AoE with destro passives (lots of effect proc + magika return)

I question the use of the words "excellent" and "good."

Your Penetrating magic only works with staff skills. My sword(s) affect all my damage.
Your elemental force passive isn't nearly as good as it one was because the proc rate for burning/chilled/concus was heavily nerfed. Did you know Wall of elelemts has a 1% chance of inflicting that status effect? 100% of that is 2%. Not very excellent.
Your destro expert passive is certainly not totally OP in when it is possible to have 3000 spellpower and 2000 regenration.

Your touch skill does not CC me or put a DoT because I use damage shields.
Force shock is the only 28 m spam
weakness to elements: this is the only good skill on the weapon
Elemental ring is Rekt by steel tornado

Stannum

Joy_Division wrote: »

I question the use of the words "excellent" and "good."

Your Penetrating magic only works with staff skills. My sword(s) affect all my damage.

That is why stamina weapon buff for spell dmg should be nerfed. It's obvious game mechanics bug.

Elemental ring is Rekt by steel tornado

We're talking about magika build isn't it?

Nadestepper

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

Joy_Division wrote: »

I question the use of the words "excellent" and "good."

Your Penetrating magic only works with staff skills. My sword(s) affect all my damage.
Your elemental force passive isn't nearly as good as it one was because the proc rate for burning/chilled/concus was heavily nerfed. Did you know Wall of elelemts has a 1% chance of inflicting that status effect? 100% of that is 2%. Not very excellent.
Your destro expert passive is certainly not totally OP in when it is possible to have 3000 spellpower and 2000 regenration.

Your touch skill does not CC me or put a DoT because I use damage shields.
Force shock is the only 28 m spam
weakness to elements: this is the only good skill on the weapon
Elemental ring is Rekt by steel tornado

When you say damage shield do you mean hardened ward? I am pretty sure it still does a knockback. The only thing that I can think of that destructive touch would not work against is something like reflective scale or any other reflection/projectile absorbing spell.

Emma_Overload

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

I agree with the OP and most of the comments in this thread.

The disparity in range and damage between Impulse and Steel Tornado is so massive that I have to use Bolt just to make sure I'm way out in front of any fellow grinders who are Dual Wielding... if I don't get to the mobs first, they'll be dead before I can even land a hit with Impulse!

RinOkumara

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

I think they should just increase the spell damage it gives you by alot!! I agree i am tired of having to use duel wield to be a viable build.

Makkir

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

Crushing Shock is the ONLY reason any majicka casters take Destro for PvP. The knockback from Clench is cool but not worth giving up one of your other 4 slots for it.

Resipsa131

Destruction Staff is fine the way it is.

I don't think any change should be in order but if one were to change something perhaps a change to the passives of destro staff to increase spell power. If your spell power is roughly the same it would solve a bunch of problems and allow you weave in light attacks.

Flaminir

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I question the use of the words "excellent" and "good."

Your Penetrating magic only works with staff skills. My sword(s) affect all my damage.

That is why stamina weapon buff for spell dmg should be nerfed. It's obvious game mechanics bug.

Elemental ring is Rekt by steel tornado

We're talking about magika build isn't it?

1. Not a bug i'm afraid.... ZoS said its by design as melee is closer in and therefore more at risk.... higher dps was their payback for this.
2. Not just magicka no... that's why the vast vast majority are saying destro needs a buff. Its the only magicka based damage weapon and is useless in comparison with all its stamina counterparts. EG the comparisons between Steel Tornado & Impulse.

angelyn

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

I found it quite telling, that when the devs did an IC dungeon livestream, their sorcerer used no destruction skills at all

Personal opinion
-Towards higher levels, most people only use crushing shock/force shock: Used because people don't have a spammable damage ability/used for interrupts or whatever it's called in PVP (from what I hear).
-Impulse used to feel amazing...ive switched to shattering prison/lightning flood combination.
-Elemental drain mainly slotted in group situations.

On my main sorcerer:
-Solo play: I never use destruction abilities
-Group play: Used to use 1 skill ( crushing/force shock). May still use that 1 skill post IC.
-PVP: Almost never use destruction abilities ( I'm new to PVP though, but even builds I've seen, that use destro only slot 1 skill))

Although there the reason for magicka users slotting a 2H/daggers is because you get more spell damage than a staff ( ZOS logic, what does that say about the destruction staff:

It is so useful, that magicka users(including devs on a livestream) are willing to completely drop their ONLY dps weapon option and all its associated skills. Or if they do use it, they don't use most of the skills.

I would love to have more magical weapon options, or better yet - buff destruction staff I see that there are much more skilled players than me asking for a buff, so listen to them if my average Joe opinion doesn't count for much

Stamina weapon skills vs magicka weapon skills equivalent:
Just reading some comments above.. Ive levelled up steel tornado and Impulse on my sorc. A very valid point raised - why does a melee weapon ability(Steel tornado) have a larger range than the equivalent ranged weapon skill ( impulse) ?

Perhaps ZOS is doing the "melee must do more damage than range, because range is safer".( A longstanding debate but I won't go into that) So they make the melee weapon ability (steel tornado) have more range and damage than the destro eqivalent (Impulse)?

And then, why is does the stamina ranged weapon(bow) skills seem so much more powerful than the magicka ranged weapon ( destruction staff) ? ( I've not fully levelled bow so this is just my feel for it).

How many weapon skill trees can be accessed:
Also makes me wonder if originally they intended to offer us separate skill lines for fire staff , shock staff and frost staff and then ran out of time(I might put this in the ask us anything):

Currently:
Stamina have access to 4 weapon skill trees
Magicka have access to 2 weapon skill trees

If fire/frost/shock were separate weapon skill lines:
Stamina would have access to 4 weapon skill trees
Magicka would have access to 4 weapon skill trees

TLDR
It just doesn't seem quite right to me that the ONLY magical DPS weapon skill line seems underwhelming when compared to the 4 stamina weapon options available ( 1 ranged- bow , 3 melee - DW, 2H, 1H/S). If you are only going to offer us 1 weapon skill line, it better be good. I'm not advocating nerfs, just buff destro, since it's the only magical DPS weapon available, or give us those skill trees that were left out

EDIT: headings , so not wall of text

Nadestepper

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

angelyn wrote: »

It just doesn't seem quite right to me that the ONLY magical DPS weapon seems underwhelming when compared to the 4 stamina weapon options available ( 1 ranged- bow , 3 melee - DW, 2H, 1H/S).

I would like to see more magic weapons like a wand and a focus or something like that. Currently the only dps magic weapon is the destruction staff, which is currently underwhelming, and that is the only tree to pick from for offensive magic abilities. Stamina builds can use sword and shield, two handed, bow, and dual wield.

Nadestepper

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

Resipsa131 wrote: »

I don't think any change should be in order but if one were to change something perhaps a change to the passives of destro staff to increase spell power. If your spell power is roughly the same it would solve a bunch of problems and allow you weave in light attacks.

I think adding a passive to increase spell power would be considered a buff. Also, I have no clue what you are trying to say about weaving light attacks.

Resipsa131

Destruction Staff is fine the way it is.

Nadestepper wrote: »

Resipsa131 wrote: »

I don't think any change should be in order but if one were to change something perhaps a change to the passives of destro staff to increase spell power. If your spell power is roughly the same it would solve a bunch of problems and allow you weave in light attacks.

I think adding a passive to increase spell power would be considered a buff. Also, I have no clue what you are trying to say about weaving light attacks.

I don't know how I could say it to be any clearer, " I don't think any change is warranted but if one were done I'd like to see it be a change in passives. "
If you are using DW for spellpower you aren't weaving light attacks as they'd be a dps loss, this is also hard on your sustain. Using a destro staff and alternating attacks with say something ranged like funnel health is easier on sustain and is not a dps loss.

byrom101b16_ESO

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

On the issue of Impulse/Elemental Ring and Steel Tornado and how ZOS 'balance' stamina damage output and magicka...

If being in melee range with all of its associated risks is, as they say, the justification for higher damage, then PBAOE and Wall of Elements (which cannot be 'thrown') should have comparative damage output. Both put you in harm's way no less risky than Steel Tornado, and with far less area coverage.

The Tri passive after the baseline % meganerf are now utter garbage and a waste of points. I only have them due to having 23 spare points frankly...

... as for the damage code of this 2 handed weapon - it should match a 2 handed sword, or be competitive with dual wielding... but the whole weapon boosts on some 2 handers and dual wield is all borked anyway - unbalanced rubbish, and needs fixing.

Until a magicka user in mainly/all LA with a stick is doing competitive magicka damage, the system just isn't right.

GreenSoup2HoT

Destruction Staff is fine the way it is.

D staff has range. Lower damage is fine because of the abilitiy to generate ultimate with much more ease. also heavy weaves.

Brrrofski

I find it OK.

Spellweaving with force pulse and medium attacks gets a decent chunk of damage done.

It build up ultimates pretty quick too.

Maybe more useful skills? There's one useful skill.

Armitas

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

Dracane wrote: »

But it is NOT faster. It is slower in fact, the passive does nothing.
Don't look at writing, test it in game and wisdom will find you. Compare restoration heavy and destruction heavy and tell me what you see

I get the feeling that ZOS's test department is addon free. As a Nord that suffered from a racial that increased the damage done to me for months I am so tired of their inability to produce abilities and passives that do what they are intended to do.

wrathofrraath

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

I think spell crafting needs a buff

Lioso

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

The fact that you get more spell power when when using Dual wield or Two hand has always seemed weird to me. The biggest use for the Destro line for me (as a Sorc) is to have a decent spammable ability. Ideally I would like to keep my Force Pulse and not be shooting myself in the foot in terms of raw spell damage. Whether this means removing the spell damage buff from 2h and dual wield, buffing destro staff, or some combination I don't know.

Stannum

Flaminir wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I question the use of the words "excellent" and "good."

Your Penetrating magic only works with staff skills. My sword(s) affect all my damage.

That is why stamina weapon buff for spell dmg should be nerfed. It's obvious game mechanics bug.

Elemental ring is Rekt by steel tornado

We're talking about magika build isn't it?

1. Not a bug i'm afraid.... ZoS said its by design as melee is closer in and therefore more at risk.... higher dps was their payback for this.

Seems you do not understand what i mean.
I didn't mean that stamina weapon dmg should be nerfed. I ment that stamina weapon dmg should not affect spell dmg (at least in 1:1 proportion). Now the situation is that if you take 2H or DW you have higher spell dmg then if you take staff.

Nadestepper

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

D staff has range. Lower damage is fine because of the abilitiy to generate ultimate with much more ease. also heavy weaves.

The bow has range as well. Are you saying that the bows damage should be lower then? You can also generate ultimate with the bow. Heavy weaves really aren't any good. They are easily dodgeable/blockable/interruptable in pvp making it a waste of time. The difference between heavy weave and medium weave damage is not good enough to make it viable.

Joy_Division

Destruction Staff needs a buff.

Nadestepper wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I question the use of the words "excellent" and "good."

Your Penetrating magic only works with staff skills. My sword(s) affect all my damage.
Your elemental force passive isn't nearly as good as it one was because the proc rate for burning/chilled/concus was heavily nerfed. Did you know Wall of elelemts has a 1% chance of inflicting that status effect? 100% of that is 2%. Not very excellent.
Your destro expert passive is certainly not totally OP in when it is possible to have 3000 spellpower and 2000 regenration.

Your touch skill does not CC me or put a DoT because I use damage shields.
Force shock is the only 28 m spam
weakness to elements: this is the only good skill on the weapon
Elemental ring is Rekt by steel tornado

When you say damage shield do you mean hardened ward? I am pretty sure it still does a knockback. The only thing that I can think of that destructive touch would not work against is something like reflective scale or any other reflection/projectile absorbing spell.

Nope. One of the many undocumented features of damage shields.

Stannum

Nadestepper wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

D staff has range. Lower damage is fine because of the abilitiy to generate ultimate with much more ease. also heavy weaves.

The bow has range as well. Are you saying that the bows damage should be lower then?

Bows allready have lower damage.