ZOS Fix The Imperial City Dungeon Drop Rates.

Francescolg

TotterTates wrote: »

There are things in game that require dedicated groups (yes an abundance of free time helps, but it is not necessary). This is why people join guilds - which could also explain your statement about the decline of zone chat groups.

I'm sorry but I disagree. I've also played since release of the game and in the open beta. NO patch before 1.7 made adjusting that hard. Most random-groups I ran with were made ouf very nice guys and we have always (!before 1.7), really always been able to adapt to the new content after a patch. This time everything is different!

Beside this, there has always been a gap for the hardcore-pve-guys in ESO: you went Craglorn, while the randoms went for silver&gold pledges. At the moment, there is no such alternative! Remind my words, this will have a hard impact on the game, no matter (!) if casual players like me join a guild or not!

I am very aware of the possibility to join a guild, nonetheless I believe in the random-approach, meaning that everybody can play with everybody. This is what makes out a good game, not just the guild-only way to play; not just the "stem group" only play. The margin, when a game gets too difficult, is a very slim margin. I think ESO has become (and the market is already full of them) this type of heavy PvE/grinding games. Much more than a year ago, where really everybody could succeed at ESO. 1.7 stopped this!

THIS patch is and feels not right for me. Lets stop this discussion and see what they want ESO to be.

Nifty2g

Well you guys can be happy now they are nerfing the Veteran mode damage output
I suppose the hardcore players never get challenging content, oh wells

Derra

NPK Daniel wrote: »

I'm sorry Nifty but you're just wrong on the difficulty level. It is too hard. And really not worth the effort given the problems you've explained with the drop rate.

My team isn't the best, but I'd say we're at least in the top 1-5% of ALL players. We were beating vDSA in ~50-60min easily. Most other players cannot do that, or come close to it.

And my team still cannot beat vWGT. I'm sure we'll get it and make it look easy with a little more practice. But if our team isn't able to beat it after several attempts, that tells me most teams will NEVER beat this as it is now.

edit: And the 95-99% who will never beat it are the life-line of this game. They pay the bills.

We never beat vet dsa with our pvp grp - we only tried one time though.

It took us about 2 hours to beat vWGT when it was vet daily on sunday. Didn´t do the hardmode though bc we were in with melee dds which are really handicapped by the whole dungeons mechanics imho. Really bad design.

I´d like to get sets from this dungeon and while i think the difficulty is fine i think the droprate is not. You should either get several pieces of gear per run (i mean it´s rng on which set you get out of 6 and rng on the trait - even if you´d get 2 to 3 pieces a run it would take weeks to get an optimal set) or the difficulty has to be adjusted down.
Personally i´d like more drops and keep the difficulty as is.

CN_Daniel

Nifty2g wrote: »

NPK Daniel wrote: »

And to give comparison: vWGT is maybe 5-10x harder than vCOA.

So I have a question, if you are unable to beat VWGT, have you tried the normal mode to learn the mechanics of the fights? Because they are all the same, veteran just increases the difficulty purely for the players who want harder content...

We destroy normal. No deaths, probably 20-30min tops to clear.

Edit: And we'll get vet too, and we'll make it look easy eventually. My point is -- If my group is having trouble, what does that mean for the other 90%? It means they will never finish it as is. Never ever ever.

CN_Daniel

Nifty2g wrote: »

Well you guys can be happy now they are nerfing the Veteran mode damage output
I suppose the hardcore players never get challenging content, oh wells

Be happy buddy. No casual players = no game.


They can't put armor people want behind a wall only the top .1% can get.

especially when they're asking everyone to pay for it...

Derra

Francescolg wrote: »

TotterTates wrote: »

There are things in game that require dedicated groups (yes an abundance of free time helps, but it is not necessary). This is why people join guilds - which could also explain your statement about the decline of zone chat groups.

I'm sorry but I disagree. I've also played since release of the game and in the open beta. NO patch before 1.7 made adjusting that hard. Most random-groups I ran with were made ouf very nice guys and we have always (!before 1.7), really always been able to adapt to the new content after a patch. This time everything is different!

Beside this, there has always been a gap for the hardcore-pve-guys in ESO: you went Craglorn, while the randoms went for silver&gold pledges. At the moment, there is no such alternative! Remind my words, this will have a hard impact on the game, no matter (!) if casual players like me join a guild or not!

I am very aware of the possibility to join a guild, nonetheless I believe in the random-approach, meaning that everybody can play with everybody. This is what makes out a good game, not just the guild-only way to play; not just the "stem group" only play. The margin, when a game gets too difficult, is a very slim margin. I think ESO has become (and the market is already full of them) this type of heavy PvE/grinding games. Much more than a year ago, where really everybody could succeed at ESO. 1.7 stopped this!

THIS patch is and feels not right for me. Lets stop this discussion and see what they want ESO to be.

I think most people have not completed their v16 gear yet. The difference between v14 and v16 gear is SIGNIFICANT. You most likely had gold v14 gear at the end of 1.6. Dungeons were manageable then.

Now with complete v16 gear the dailys are actually easier than they were before the patch - atleast for my grp.

Personofsecrets

Nifty2g wrote: »

NPK Daniel wrote: »

And to give comparison: vWGT is maybe 5-10x harder than vCOA.

So I have a question, if you are unable to beat VWGT, have you tried the normal mode to learn the mechanics of the fights? Because they are all the same, veteran just increases the difficulty purely for the players who want harder content...

Or for the players that want v16 gear.

Gilliamtherogue

NPK Daniel wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Well you guys can be happy now they are nerfing the Veteran mode damage output
I suppose the hardcore players never get challenging content, oh wells

Be happy buddy. No casual players = no game.


They can't put armor people want behind a wall only the top .1% can get.

especially when they're asking everyone to pay for it...

You get the same gear doing normal. The only difference is you get slightly weaker stats, a casual doesn't care about 5 more weapon damage per set bonus, so why cater to them in content that's so much harder? It's a terrible choice to nerf content that was intended for more skilled players. If you cater only to casuals then you cut off 90% of actual positive feedback, because we're the people who take the time to wade through the bull sh*t and send in detailed reports. This logic about random groups being able to clear the end game content is total nonsense. Why kill all sense of achievement from doing content by letting anyone complete it? There needs to be a disparity between the people who put in countless hours at honing their skills from those who play "just for fun". I'm not saying it needs to be huge, but you should be able to look at someone and say, "Woah, that guy is really good. He's decked out in the top gear and he's clearly earned it because that content is really challenging!" Instead it's turning into, "Oh hey, another person who spent 10 minutes doing the dungeon and he's fully geared."

Leonis

This thread is about drop rates

Ps: i'm agree that the new veteran dungeons are really too hard compared to the normal mode.

But i think it's more the normal mode is too easy....

They should have introduce an easy mode and make the normal mode harder than current normal one.

Joy_Division

Murmeltier wrote: »

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

Difficulty of new dungeons is just right where it should be. Strat is very important part of puzzle. Strat puzzle known to public knowledge will be completed soon and than more and more people will complete it. Therefore completing dungs on vet will become more and more regular thing. ZOS can do whatever they want but shouldnt touch difficulty of new dungeons . Drop rates should be increased by large margin.

No it isnt, i explained why. End of the Story. "That was one Minute too much in this Thread, i answer this while i pass the Door, to slam it from the Outside".

What a rotten attitude. Just because you bold face your points, doesn't make your opinions absolute truths and everywho disagrees with you wrong.

newtinmpls

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Just because you disagree doesn't mean you're right.

You made this comment - and I wanted to start with it since I do disagree with something else you said.

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Back in 1.6 content was extremely easy to burn and everyone was able to breeze through some of the content, or at least skate by without many problems.

I have to disagree here. There are a few undaunteds (vet Banished cells comes immidiately to mind) that I and the group I most regularly play with (range of vet 2 - vet 14) have never made it through. We can usually manage to learn from our mistakes and improve - but that one seems to have us beat. Just can't kill the "waves" fast enough.

My point is that if such and so content is good for you - it's not necessarily good or easy or even possible for everyone. I'm not even saying that it should be. I'm just saying that when you chastize someone for making sweeping presumptions - well - maybe we all do that from time to time.

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Go work hard for your gear and take pride in your achievements once you've earned them.

This I can totally get behind. The first time we actually finished Jumping Ship/Blackheart Haven we cheered and generally partied down for at least half an hour.

And to get back on topic, I added a lovely long edit about my frustrating seeking for the silks of the sun set.

It's been a week of looking, getting drops for other sets, and finding only pauldrons/robe/staff as drops, in stores and so on.

This is why I tend to stay away from dropped sets - they are just too darn irritating.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

Murmeltier wrote: »

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

Difficulty of new dungeons is just right where it should be. Strat is very important part of puzzle. Strat puzzle known to public knowledge will be completed soon and than more and more people will complete it. Therefore completing dungs on vet will become more and more regular thing. ZOS can do whatever they want but shouldnt touch difficulty of new dungeons . Drop rates should be increased by large margin.

No it isnt, i explained why. End of the Story. "That was one Minute too much in this Thread, i answer this while i pass the Door, to slam it from the Outside".

I am glad that he got out of this discussion coz obviously he thinks that fact he paid for DLC guarantees him to finish content. First u play and than u see what is outcome. If he really thinks that his money should buy him completion perhaps he should play some other game where it is possible to do so.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

NPK Daniel wrote: »

Specifically what needs to be nerfed is the DOT on the planer guy. If you don't have the deeps to burst him in 2 (3) max cycles it just goes to hell.

No u are wrong . Its not about dps at all . U just have to have magica harness on, u have to be prompt on sigil . U have to have 4 people in rotation on sigil . On red phases stand ground /fight and on blue phases kite . None except sigil user should be near sigil position. This is my point - it is difficult but certainly doable if u know how to do it. Best thing is that at this day and age u cant outdps mechanics.

newtinmpls

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

No u are wrong . Its not about dps at all . U just have to have magica harness on, u have to be prompt on sigil . U have to have 4 people in rotation on sigil . On red phases stand ground and fight on blue phases kite . None except sigil user should be near sigil position. This is my point - it is difficult but certainly doable if u know how to do it. Best thing is that at this day and age u cant outdps mechanics.

I have no idea what you just said.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

TotterTates wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

I can confirm that, most casual players I run with are realizing that many PvE-dungeons were made too hard after this patch. The "zone chat group market" is going down significantly and I see less and less players "LFG/LFM".

I never did VDSA, AA, etc. I was one of this players who used to run gold & silver after work with random groups. It was fun and for 'us' it even was HARD (after and before 1.6) . Many times we did wipe in City of Ash, etc. ALL this happened before the latest patch!
Now, we are seeing no land! Yesterday I was two hours in City of Ash, no chance. We were really nice players, we did not enrage, no one flamed, no one quit the group and everybody started to discuss: what could be done and we tried and we re-tried to adapt all night long!
The problem is, was and will be, that my time in life I can put into such a game is strictly limited and I can only commit to a certain degree to such games. I do not play in guilds, I am ok with 1-2 random group runs every night, even if we don't use teamspeak and even if there's the random probability to have a 100% nuub with us.

At the current state of the game, I am going to quit 100%, as I feel "under-represented". Apparantly, most players can manage the new gold difficulty level. I, and I think I am a representative of a certain part of ESO-gamers, have no longer a place in this game, as there's simply nothing to do outside IC-PvP and gold&silver, which has been made too hard. Good bye ESO!

I commend your bravery for this post... however, every content patch thus far has presented seemingly mind blowing changes that set everyone back. You can't expect to roll into vet content with a group who lacks familiar synergy and complete it, especially less than one month after patch release.

Take me for example. I consider myself a pretty good tank. I've been playing as a tank since the November closed beta. For a time, I was tanking things that shouldn't have been possible... then 1.6 happened and I struggled for a bit as everything I knew about tanking shifted. Sure, I whined a little bit about the effects the patch had on tanking, but then I got to work on improving my character and my personal skill (I would actually go into dungeons solo and practice tanking groups until I knew every enemy mechanic and strategies to counter them).

Eventually I was back at the top of the tanking sphere... then 2.1 happened. blah blah theorycraft, practice, blah. Now I'm back on top.

There are things in game that require dedicated groups (yes an abundance of free time helps, but it is not necessary). This is why people join guilds - which could also explain your statement about the decline of zone chat groups.

It's your choice to drop the game, just don't blame the game if you are unwilling to take advantage of what it offers.

Advantage of guild is that information inside guild spread really fast . Most important thing is that people in tight organisation sooner or later come to same level of understanding of that particular fight and mechanics and that is most important thing.
Within guild u would get supported with gear, know how and finally u would have chance to train with same people. Doing pve with random people is challenging sometimes even for top players coz u need team in order to win. Basically this is team effort and team sport.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

newtinmpls wrote: »

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

No u are wrong . Its not about dps at all . U just have to have magica harness on, u have to be prompt on sigil . U have to have 4 people in rotation on sigil . On red phases stand ground and fight on blue phases kite . None except sigil user should be near sigil position. This is my point - it is difficult but certainly doable if u know how to do it. Best thing is that at this day and age u cant outdps mechanics.

I have no idea what you just said.

I thought u said that u should have very high dps in 3rd boss WGT vet in order to clear him before dots kill u.
I just gave u idea how to reduce dots received and how to handle damage when u get it.

newtinmpls

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

I thought u said that u should have very high dps in 3rd boss WGT vet in order to clear him before dots kill u.
I just gave u idea how to reduce dots received and how to handle damage when u get it.

I get that you are advising someone on how to deal with a particular dungeon/boss.

Your comments are so full of slang/abbreviations that I can't follow them - although to be fair I don't know what area/dungeon you are talking about - if I was familiar with it, I might be able to understand more.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

newtinmpls wrote: »

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

I thought u said that u should have very high dps in 3rd boss WGT vet in order to clear him before dots kill u.
I just gave u idea how to reduce dots received and how to handle damage when u get it.

I get that you are advising someone on how to deal with a particular dungeon/boss.

Your comments are so full of slang/abbreviations that I can't follow them - although to be fair I don't know what area/dungeon you are talking about - if I was familiar with it, I might be able to understand more.

Murmeltier

The Damage is scaled down, in WGT and IP on Veteran Mode. Great Descision Zos, no Elitist Contest that blocks a whole PvE Equipment Line on VR16 for the other good playing Players, without perfect Groupsupport.

We dont need to discuss this anymore, the Response from many many Players speaks clear Words, more Fun for all and not for a Handfull.

I am sure, that the most of the "Handfull" cant see it so, but it is only an egostic Behaviour. Think about it, and you will see, it is the right Way.

In the Future, with the Start of Orsinium, you will get some Trials with a Hardmode, i am sure. There you can do, whatever you want to do. And the other Player can do, whatever they want to do, without asking the Handfull for their Permission.

So, i am out, i was only here to Close the File.

Personofsecrets

Murmeltier wrote: »

The Damage is scaled down, in WGT and IP on Veteran Mode. Great Descision Zos, no Elitist Contest that blocks a whole PvE Equipment Line on VR16 for the other good playing Players, without perfect Groupsupport.

We dont need to discuss this anymore, the Response from many many Players speaks clear Words, more Fun for all and not for a Handfull.

I am sure, that the most of the "Handfull" cant see it so, but it is only an egostic Behaviour. Think about it, and you will see, it is the right Way.

In the Future, with the Start of Orsinium, you will get some Trials with a Hardmode, i am sure. There you can do, whatever you want to do. And the other Player can do, whatever they want to do, without asking the Handfull for their Permission.

So, i am out, i was only here to Close the File.

Source please.

Gilliamtherogue

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Murmeltier wrote: »

The Damage is scaled down, in WGT and IP on Veteran Mode. Great Descision Zos, no Elitist Contest that blocks a whole PvE Equipment Line on VR16 for the other good playing Players, without perfect Groupsupport.

We dont need to discuss this anymore, the Response from many many Players speaks clear Words, more Fun for all and not for a Handfull.

I am sure, that the most of the "Handfull" cant see it so, but it is only an egostic Behaviour. Think about it, and you will see, it is the right Way.

In the Future, with the Start of Orsinium, you will get some Trials with a Hardmode, i am sure. There you can do, whatever you want to do. And the other Player can do, whatever they want to do, without asking the Handfull for their Permission.

So, i am out, i was only here to Close the File.

Source please.

Was in the ESO live from yesterday, vet dungeons are getting their damage scaled down. Two people on this topic said it needed nerfs, while a flood of response said no. Yet who posted the most? Why, the complainers of course. This is my only qualm with Dev's that listen to their audience more. They're so often mistaken into thinking that problems exist, when it's just a small fraction of people who are speaking over everyone else because they're so entitled to having their opinion. This was honestly a mistake ZOS, this is the fourth time you've released content and labeled it "for the toughest of challenges". First it was vDSA, which got nerfed a week after release. Then it was Sanctum Ophidia, which took almost a month, but inevitably got nerfed to the ground. Then it was Serpent Hardmode, that got its mechanics slowed down, despite guilds already completing it. And now here we are again with vWGT, and vICP. You keep trying to make content for your players who have played the longest and love your game, but then you end up ripping that away from us and giving it to all of these whiners who don't give content more than a few days before they give up and have a massive melt down on the forums how things are too OP. Mark my words, you're going to do the same thing with Orsinium's trials and arena. I truly hope I am proven wrong when the time comes, but this is becoming ridiculous. I know this thread has been derailed from its original topic but as new posters keep coming in here to throw their two cents in we seem to always return to this issue. What ever happened to adjusting changes slowly overtime so you could gather information and actually test if things were the way people said? Instead you've moved to drastic changes that completely alter the game as we know it, and as of late, being in the utmost negative of ways. I have nothing but respect for you and your team's work ethic @ZOS_RichLambert , but please start to reconsider how much and quickly you act on changes when it comes into subjective terms like nerfs and game play adjustments. Cheers.

Ishammael

newtinmpls wrote: »

I have to disagree here. There are a few undaunteds (vet Banished cells comes immidiately to mind) that I and the group I most regularly play with (range of vet 2 - vet 14) have never made it through. We can usually manage to learn from our mistakes and improve - but that one seems to have us beat. Just can't kill the "waves" fast enough.

The veteran dungeons pre-1.7 were face-to-keyboard easy, exception being VDSA and VCOA. Y'all weren't geared correctly.

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Was in the ESO live from yesterday, vet dungeons are getting their damage scaled down. Two people on this topic said it needed nerfs, while a flood of response said no. Yet who posted the most? Why, the complainers of course. This is my only qualm with Dev's that listen to their audience more. They're so often mistaken into thinking that problems exist, when it's just a small fraction of people who are speaking over everyone else because they're so entitled to having their opinion. This was honestly a mistake ZOS, this is the fourth time you've released content and labeled it "for the toughest of challenges". First it was vDSA, which got nerfed a week after release. Then it was Sanctum Ophidia, which took almost a month, but inevitably got nerfed to the ground. Then it was Serpent Hardmode, that got its mechanics slowed down, despite guilds already completing it. And now here we are again with vWGT, and vICP. You keep trying to make content for your players who have played the longest and love your game, but then you end up ripping that away from us and giving it to all of these whiners who don't give content more than a few days before they give up and have a massive melt down on the forums how things are too OP. Mark my words, you're going to do the same thing with Orsinium's trials and arena. I truly hope I am proven wrong when the time comes, but this is becoming ridiculous. I know this thread has been derailed from its original topic but as new posters keep coming in here to throw their two cents in we seem to always return to this issue. What ever happened to adjusting changes slowly overtime so you could gather information and actually test if things were the way people said? Instead you've moved to drastic changes that completely alter the game as we know it, and as of late, being in the utmost negative of ways. I have nothing but respect for you and your team's work ethic @ZOS_RichLambert , but please start to reconsider how much and quickly you act on changes when it comes into subjective terms like nerfs and game play adjustments. Cheers.

Agreed, and I'm not much of a PvEer. They should have left the dungeons up for at least a month before even considering adjusting anything. The stats gap between v14 and v16 gear is large. In another month, players will have the mechanics down and be close to v16 gear and it will be the same as pre-1.7 dungeons: super easy.

Duukar

I was soo excited to get into my 1st bloody claw vault.

Then I walked out with a Inferno Staff of Agility.

I dont even recall the trait its so incredibly useless.

Is this a damn joke!????????

Duuk

PS: next trip yielded me an impenetrable shield of agility.. Yay!!

The teeth and claws are WAY harder to get than ether and bone shards. With RNG BULLSHIV like this Im pretty upset at how much farming ive had to do. Im a mid level committed gamer mostly focussed on PvP. I grind hard at first to get my set built then i have fun. Too much grinding in this city..

newtinmpls

Ishammael wrote: »

The veteran dungeons pre-1.7 were face-to-keyboard easy, exception being VDSA and VCOA. Y'all weren't geared correctly.

So ... just insults as a response. No suggestions.

phbell

Well, I have to agree with the majority of what I read in this thread. I am A PvE player for the most part. I do some PvP, but that is a different world with a whole different skill set. PvP players are a particularly committed group with special builds and although I consider myself above average in PvE I am only cannon fodder for PvP players. I have nothing bad to say about it because I rather admire the level of dedication - except for the cheaters, like the Templar i went up against that repeatedly drank invisibility potions with no cool down, that just isn't fair.

My feelings are as follows:

• The IC is a for PvP players and holds little for me and my type of gaming.
• The ability to take another persons Telvar Stones encourages ganking and rewards aspects of human nature I find so regrettable. It is another reason to skip the new content.
• The WGT and IP are very difficult to beat. My guild and I took 3.5 hours to complete WGT on non-vet V15 level and we (3 VR16 and 1 VR 15) got thumped on vet level WGT. Plenty hard enough.
• The opening post was right. The drops are HORRIBLE and not worth the pain.

I do not know who "pays the bills" for Zenimax - PvP or PvE - but my guess is PvP because all the new content and character skill changes are driven by PvP. As a subscriber this cuts deeply into the enjoyment i get from the game. I will wait for Orsinium. If it is as disappointing I will move on.

nun_nonrb19_ESO

Guess the devs that were lurking on this thread got derailed from the original issue brought out by the OP and nowhere in the patch notes for today's patch is it mentioned that the drop rates on the IC dungeons got fixed. That was a real bummer as I don't intend to return to those dungeons unless I have the higher hope to get a drop from the set I'm after.
It's lame to have such a miserable drop rate since there are a few different sets that will drop there so even if a piece drops you'll need to get lucky to get a piece from a set you want and that you still don't have and if you're really really lucky you'll get it with the trait that doesn't stink.

Nebthet78

Yes I have to agree the drop rates of the new weapons and armor in the 2 dungeons is terrible. They need to double it, or make the sets you get in there BoE.

Regis_Filius

Ok, let it be BoP but do more honestly drop system:
- Each boss drops one set item to random player.
- Last boss drops one mask to random player and for one set item to each other players.
- Vaults have only good traits.

Seriously, more than 15 runs vWGT with no mask and only one good item set, all other items are trash. And other guy from my team get mask 3 times, wow.

Nifty2g

I'm kind've upset

Items

Increased the drop chance of the Monstrous Tooth, Mark of the Legion, and Bloody Claw Trophy Vault items.
Increased the chance you can receive a piece of jewelry from the caches in Imperial City.

How come we haven't seen an increased drop rate but we get drop rates on those? I mean, those are very common and extremely easy to farm. And please give dungeon chests more loot, it's double the needed trophies of district vaults and they are bound, I dont need anything from white gold tower and i can't trade or sell them, I dont understand

plssss @ZOS_RichLambert can you make the trophies able to be traded or update us on this

DisgracefulMind

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'm kind've upset

Items

Increased the drop chance of the Monstrous Tooth, Mark of the Legion, and Bloody Claw Trophy Vault items.
Increased the chance you can receive a piece of jewelry from the caches in Imperial City.

How come we haven't seen an increased drop rate but we get drop rates on those? I mean, those are very common and extremely easy to farm. And please give dungeon chests more loot, it's double the needed trophies of district vaults and they are bound, I dont need anything from white gold tower and i can't trade or sell them, I dont understand

plssss @ZOS_RichLambert can you make the trophies able to be traded or update us on this

It just boggles me that they don't seem to care about the droprates in these dungeons. Like Nifty, I'm a dedicated player, and have run these dungeons over and over and barely have anything to show for it. Sure, I've got some set pieces, but most of them are awful traits (well-fitted). After, what was it, two vaults worth of vWGT running yesterday (12 runs or so), I got two set pieces from the actual dungeon (both jolting well-fitted pieces), and then ALL of the loot I pulled from the chest was pretty much well-fitted; I did pull 2 of the SAME item at one time, and saw two of my group members suffer in the same way. Why is it even possible that you can pull two of the same item from the same chest...it's like a slap in the face. It's discouraging. Let's say you just so happen to have a pretty good group and can pull out 30 minute runs per vWGT. That's still 3 hours of farming for a possible one set piece during those runs, and then perhaps nothing useful at all from the chests. But let's take into account that not everyone has that luck and ends up in hour long runs. That becomes 6 or so hours of vWGT for 1 chest, and most likely 1 set piece to drop in the dungeon runs since the rate is SO LOW. How is the average, casual player ever going to get this gear? I know I'll get mine eventually, I'm determined and run with some excellent players, but if I'm discouraged, how do others feel? Most likely even moreso. These droprates DISCOURAGE the average player from doing the content, ZoS, don't you see this? No reward for these dungeons. And vWGT is the easy one to farm! What about the people running Prison? Average groups are definitely in there for a long, long time. For what? A possible drop every 10 runs. Just LOL. Yet people who run in huge zerg farming raids get an increased drop rate for items that are BoE. It's just slapping us in the face. Many players have been extremely vocal in how bad these droprates are, yet droprates are increased for easy to farm vaults. Good job.