Telvar Stones Losses Need Adjusted

Avenias

I hope zos changes loss rate to 100%. Pvp is not meant for new/casual players. Learn how to play or dont bother complaining.

CP5

Avenias wrote: »

I hope zos changes loss rate to 100%. Pvp is not meant for new/casual players. Learn how to play or dont bother complaining.

Great way to incentivize more players to join pvp, people who are different and may do something other than zerg everywhere.

Honestly to the drop rate, why not set it low (20-25%) and then get multiplied by the tel var stone multiplyer. Risk vs reward people, they didn't add in the need to loot players but with this you would need stones to loose stones, and you would need a lot to get a lot with the risk of loosing more.

Sausage

Just what I said earlier that high loss is too much for mainstream game. I thikn if they are gonna make changes, let cowards use APs in order to reduce down the loss. 500k ap for 10% or so, you can bring it down to 40-50% or so.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Sausage wrote: »

Just what I said earlier that high loss is too much for mainstream game. I thikn if they are gonna make changes, let cowards use APs in order to reduce down the loss. 500k ap for 10% or so, you can bring it down to 40-50% or so.

Just farm gold and buy the gear/mats, if you're so afraid.

k2blader

tcgoetzub17_ESO wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I played tonight with a group of 8-20 and played for over 3 hours and came out of it with less than 50 Telvar Stones.

I'm confused about your results. I've played about four hours in IC. All solo. I ended up with ~ 3200 stones. I'm not a top tier player.

Can I ask how you did that, and what faction and class/build are you playing?

Leeric

Avenias wrote: »

I hope zos changes loss rate to 100%. Pvp is not meant for new/casual players. Learn how to play or dont bother complaining.

Except there is PVE in PVP....
Nice try on that one, but you failed.

k2blader

Some so-called PvPers on this thread are so stupid. Just because you can't compete IRL doesn't mean you should attempt to compensate in a computer game.

I don't blame PvEers for thinking IC is crap. It is crap. It's not PvP. It's zerg or cloak to get much done. lol

Callous2208

k2blader wrote: »

Some so-called PvPers on this thread are so stupid. Just because you can't compete IRL doesn't mean you should attempt to compensate in a computer game.

I don't blame PvEers for thinking IC is crap. It is crap. It's not PvP. It's zerg or cloak to get much done. lol

I'm a pver, I think IC is great. Seems pretty pvp to me. More 1v1's and small scale fights than I ever had in Cyrodiil. There are some zergs occasionally. I feel like people are just repeating stuff they heard in other complaint threads, without ever stepping foot into the city.

But thanks for letting me know that pvpers are stupid and can't compete in real life, so they compensate here. I mean sheesh, bunch of losers playing the content as it was intended, get a life.

zornyan

I've said it before, but they should have kept the gated access, there wouldn't be any zergs running around then.

People will get bored of zerging soon, as far as people showing on these threads have put together, your average soloer/2-4 man group is earning 50-80k in a day.

Your average 20 man zerg is earning around 5-10k a day each.

When they realise they could literially earn 5-6 the mats in half the time they will calm down. It's new, give it time...

k2blader

Callous2208 wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Some so-called PvPers on this thread are so stupid. Just because you can't compete IRL doesn't mean you should attempt to compensate in a computer game.

I don't blame PvEers for thinking IC is crap. It is crap. It's not PvP. It's zerg or cloak to get much done. lol

I'm a pver, I think IC is great. Seems pretty pvp to me. More 1v1's and small scale fights than I ever had in Cyrodiil. There are some zergs occasionally. I feel like people are just repeating stuff they heard in other complaint threads, without ever stepping foot into the city.

But thanks for letting me know that pvpers are stupid and can't compete in real life, so they compensate here. I mean sheesh, bunch of losers playing the content as it was intended, get a life.

Lol, touched a nerve on ya. And you sound like a mixed PvP-PvEer to me. I was talking about the people who only want to PvE who think IC sucks. I don't blame them, though I posted on another thread how it's not as bad for them as I thought and what I think they can do.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

However I have yet to see anyone put up any solid argument why NOT to change the loss rates.

Here is 8 pages on why the loss rate should be 100%

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196997/obligitory-keep-the-100-loss-thread/p1

Plenty of solid arguments in there.

CP5

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

However I have yet to see anyone put up any solid argument why NOT to change the loss rates.

Here is 8 pages on why the loss rate should be 100%

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196997/obligitory-keep-the-100-loss-thread/p1

Plenty of solid arguments in there.

Spit-balling points form the op of that thread -

If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people won't be attracted to PvPing within the imperial city. People ONLY pvp so they can loot their stones?
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people will continually grind Imperial City for hours on end with reckless abandon. Or they'll just group up (zerg) to make sure they can stay active farming for longer
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then there will be no incentive to do the quests (the secure boxes of Tel-Var stones). Quest still give more stones, so do quest while killing mobs/players, its more stones
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then EVERYONE will be running around with a 4x multiplier on their pickups and it will TRIVIALIZE end game gearing. Fair point, unless the drop rate for stones went up with the multiplier

That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you have to be cautious. If it weren't for the fact that this system "encourages" people to group, and group some more, and with the damage changes group a bit more after that
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you'll maybe seek out less popular locations for safety sake. Again fair comment, found a safe location and now wish where I saw it, will make the city more evenly populated
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means you'll think twice about diving in to fight that stinky Elf who thought that boss was theirs to fight. Double checking yourself if you should join a fight, good idea but if its an ally and you don't want to risk stones to help them that to me is counter productive, and if its an enemy, just poke them and get everything for little work, great idea
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means the satisfaction of making it back to safety with a big haul is so much greater. Good point again, if it weren't for the gank "groups"
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that when you turn around and kill that 'ganking troll' and pick up 20k Tel-Var stones because he got cocky and didn't bank them you'll know he won't be there quite as often from now on in. Doubt someone with that many stones on them wouldn't have already banked them, unless they are real 'confident' in their skillz, its more likely pve players will have a lot of stones for multipliers for more stones since those multipliers don't help pvp'ers and those pvp gankers would probably not have that many on them

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

CP5 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

However I have yet to see anyone put up any solid argument why NOT to change the loss rates.

Here is 8 pages on why the loss rate should be 100%

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196997/obligitory-keep-the-100-loss-thread/p1

Plenty of solid arguments in there.

Spit-balling points form the op of that thread -

If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people won't be attracted to PvPing within the imperial city. People ONLY pvp so they can loot their stones?
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people will continually grind Imperial City for hours on end with reckless abandon. Or they'll just group up (zerg) to make sure they can stay active farming for longer
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then there will be no incentive to do the quests (the secure boxes of Tel-Var stones). Quest still give more stones, so do quest while killing mobs/players, its more stones
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then EVERYONE will be running around with a 4x multiplier on their pickups and it will TRIVIALIZE end game gearing. Fair point, unless the drop rate for stones went up with the multiplier

That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you have to be cautious. If it weren't for the fact that this system "encourages" people to group, and group some more, and with the damage changes group a bit more after that
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you'll maybe seek out less popular locations for safety sake. Again fair comment, found a safe location and now wish where I saw it, will make the city more evenly populated
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means you'll think twice about diving in to fight that stinky Elf who thought that boss was theirs to fight. Double checking yourself if you should join a fight, good idea but if its an ally and you don't want to risk stones to help them that to me is counter productive, and if its an enemy, just poke them and get everything for little work, great idea
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means the satisfaction of making it back to safety with a big haul is so much greater. Good point again, if it weren't for the gank "groups"
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that when you turn around and kill that 'ganking troll' and pick up 20k Tel-Var stones because he got cocky and didn't bank them you'll know he won't be there quite as often from now on in. Doubt someone with that many stones on them wouldn't have already banked them, unless they are real 'confident' in their skillz, its more likely pve players will have a lot of stones for multipliers for more stones since those multipliers don't help pvp'ers and those pvp gankers would probably not have that many on them

Said boldly by a Sorc that can stay sit behind two shield and take zero points damages Sorcs are still Curse > hardening ward > Healing Ward Stamina build have strong penalties for blocking or rolling incoming damage. Now the damage and damage shields were nerfed to the same point but stamina lack good heals unless you run both Rally and Vigor.

Losing 80% of your stones to Sorcs that shield up spam Crushing shock to interrupt all cast time attacks and stand in their Daedic Mines is just ***. Sorcs and Templars run the city and everyone was crying about cloak getting fixed and listen to the silence on OP Nightblades now.

CP5

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

However I have yet to see anyone put up any solid argument why NOT to change the loss rates.

Here is 8 pages on why the loss rate should be 100%

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196997/obligitory-keep-the-100-loss-thread/p1

Plenty of solid arguments in there.

Spit-balling points form the op of that thread -

If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people won't be attracted to PvPing within the imperial city. People ONLY pvp so they can loot their stones?
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people will continually grind Imperial City for hours on end with reckless abandon. Or they'll just group up (zerg) to make sure they can stay active farming for longer
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then there will be no incentive to do the quests (the secure boxes of Tel-Var stones). Quest still give more stones, so do quest while killing mobs/players, its more stones
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then EVERYONE will be running around with a 4x multiplier on their pickups and it will TRIVIALIZE end game gearing. Fair point, unless the drop rate for stones went up with the multiplier

That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you have to be cautious. If it weren't for the fact that this system "encourages" people to group, and group some more, and with the damage changes group a bit more after that
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you'll maybe seek out less popular locations for safety sake. Again fair comment, found a safe location and now wish where I saw it, will make the city more evenly populated
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means you'll think twice about diving in to fight that stinky Elf who thought that boss was theirs to fight. Double checking yourself if you should join a fight, good idea but if its an ally and you don't want to risk stones to help them that to me is counter productive, and if its an enemy, just poke them and get everything for little work, great idea
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means the satisfaction of making it back to safety with a big haul is so much greater. Good point again, if it weren't for the gank "groups"
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that when you turn around and kill that 'ganking troll' and pick up 20k Tel-Var stones because he got cocky and didn't bank them you'll know he won't be there quite as often from now on in. Doubt someone with that many stones on them wouldn't have already banked them, unless they are real 'confident' in their skillz, its more likely pve players will have a lot of stones for multipliers for more stones since those multipliers don't help pvp'ers and those pvp gankers would probably not have that many on them

Said boldly by a Sorc that can stay sit behind two shield and take zero points damages Sorcs are still Curse > hardening ward > Healing Ward Stamina build have strong penalties for blocking or rolling incoming damage. Now the damage and damage shields were nerfed to the same point but stamina lack good heals unless you run both Rally and Vigor.

Losing 80% of your stones to Sorcs that shield up spam Crushing shock to interrupt all cast time attacks and stand in their Daedic Mines is just ***. Sorcs and Templars run the city and everyone was crying about cloak getting fixed and listen to the silence on OP Nightblades now.

1.) I don't have a shield stacking mine camping sorc, I have a stamina sorc and one who has no shield and doesn't even have mines yet.

2.) If the sorc is stationary in a ring of mines you control if they stay there or not in the IC most of the time.

3.) How are templars running the IC with sorcs?

4.) NB i've found is the easiest class to run in the IC since they can sneak past groups of mobs at all times making it easy to get around

5.) I was just outlining my first thoughts on another threads topics, where did this "sorcs are op" reply come from?

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

Me as a PvE player find losing 80 % of the stones too much.
PVP as it is now with all its lag and bugs does not really entertain me. It feels more like a shore. Especially when Ultimates do not fire up or stop working in the middle (storm ulti)

The only reason I am doing this PvP crap (and the question is for how long because this game pisses me off more and more) is to get the PvE gear for PvE Raids.
PvP is not why I play this game and I wish PvP would be totally separated from PvE (skill and gear-wise)... that PvE people do not need anything from PvP and PVP People need nothing from PvE to do their thing.

Sallington

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO wrote: »

Me as a PvE player find losing 80 % of the stones too much.
PVP as it is now with all its lag and bugs does not really entertain me. It feels more like a shore. Especially when Ultimates do not fire up or stop working in the middle (storm ulti)

The only reason I am doing this PvP crap (and the question is for how long because this game pisses me off more and more) is to get the PvE gear for PvE Raids.
PvP is not why I play this game and I wish PvP would be totally separated from PvE (skill and gear-wise)... that PvE people do not need anything from PvP and PVP People need nothing from PvE to do their thing.

There's not 1 set from Tel Var stones is that is better than crafted gear for PvE content.

If you mean Willpower/Agility/Endurance gear, those trophies and gear can be bought from guild traders, and are not lost upon death if you decided to farm them.

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

.

Sallington wrote: »

There's not 1 set from Tel Var stones is that is better than crafted gear for PvE content.

If you mean Willpower/Agility/Endurance gear, those trophies and gear can be bought from guild traders, and are not lost upon death if you decided to farm them.

I buy from those Tel Var Stones the VR16 Runes and missing mats for my crafting.
I never have seen any VR16/Glyphs runes drop, only the VR15 ones.

Evergnar

Idk, I love the sense of danger that it currently has. I don't care if Zos makes some adjustments to curb the QQ but I hope that element of danger doesn't go away.

apostate9

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I know that the developers watched the accumulation rate of stones on the PTS and found it to be reasonable. What I am sure was not accounted for were that most players who go to PTS are well above average skill. These players are able to accumulate them faster than an average player. Also they are able to stay alive longer in PVP. The PTS would have had fewer players so fewer mobs to run in to.

I played tonight with a group of 8-20 and played for over 3 hours and came out of it with less than 50 Telvar Stones. I'm sure it will get better with experience, but it was bad enough that it will make a lot of people on the fence about IC just walk away.

The real problem is the 80% loss to PVPers. You have hugely and horrendously stacked the odds in favor of those PVP veterans who know how to make super tanky builds, are good at escaping from combat without dying when things turn bad. But this is only a small percentage of your player base. By making 80% of the stones go to the victors on each kill you're basically turning the average players into farm source to give more Telvar stones to that small minority who have the skills and experience to make it through an average gaming session in hot PVP without dying. You've made it so that the new content and new materials are only found through PVP which upsets many PVEers but you're going to upset those PVE players even more as they get increasingly frustrated about the inability to accumulate rewards.

Adding to the problem is the lag.... Many players were repeatedly caught in crazy lag spikes and often got ganked while helpless. So my group were pretty much forced to forget about multipliers and deposit our stones as often as humanly possible. Even if our group took out an enemy group, some of us still died, and the tanky members of the enemies ran away at the end with all of the stones.

I propose a sliding scale.... the fewer stones you have the lower percentage is lost. IE under 1000 stones you only lose 20%, 1000-3000 you lose 50% and over 3000 when you get the best multiplier you lose the 80%. That would mean that you'd still have increased risk for the increased reward, but the players who struggle to scrape up a few hundred wouldn't be constantly knocked down to double and single digits. It would also make the PVP more fun. Our group got very restless by the discipline needed to minimize the risks. We could have collected a LOT more stones if we'd simply moved faster, taken a few more risks, but the risks weren't worth it because the losses were too high. I WANT to go to a PVP area to get in combat, but if I did so I not only usually lost all my stones, but often caused the others in my group to lose theirs. People will work just as hard to avoid losing 50% of their stones after they get their first multiplier. The enemy players will still seek that kill just as much, but it would greatly reduce the potential frustration and to level the playing field.

Uh....I'm not Sypher and I get FPS drops too, but I can get 50 TVS in like...3 minutes. Alone. You're doing it wrong.

Sallington

apostate9 wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I know that the developers watched the accumulation rate of stones on the PTS and found it to be reasonable. What I am sure was not accounted for were that most players who go to PTS are well above average skill. These players are able to accumulate them faster than an average player. Also they are able to stay alive longer in PVP. The PTS would have had fewer players so fewer mobs to run in to.

I played tonight with a group of 8-20 and played for over 3 hours and came out of it with less than 50 Telvar Stones. I'm sure it will get better with experience, but it was bad enough that it will make a lot of people on the fence about IC just walk away.

The real problem is the 80% loss to PVPers. You have hugely and horrendously stacked the odds in favor of those PVP veterans who know how to make super tanky builds, are good at escaping from combat without dying when things turn bad. But this is only a small percentage of your player base. By making 80% of the stones go to the victors on each kill you're basically turning the average players into farm source to give more Telvar stones to that small minority who have the skills and experience to make it through an average gaming session in hot PVP without dying. You've made it so that the new content and new materials are only found through PVP which upsets many PVEers but you're going to upset those PVE players even more as they get increasingly frustrated about the inability to accumulate rewards.

Adding to the problem is the lag.... Many players were repeatedly caught in crazy lag spikes and often got ganked while helpless. So my group were pretty much forced to forget about multipliers and deposit our stones as often as humanly possible. Even if our group took out an enemy group, some of us still died, and the tanky members of the enemies ran away at the end with all of the stones.

I propose a sliding scale.... the fewer stones you have the lower percentage is lost. IE under 1000 stones you only lose 20%, 1000-3000 you lose 50% and over 3000 when you get the best multiplier you lose the 80%. That would mean that you'd still have increased risk for the increased reward, but the players who struggle to scrape up a few hundred wouldn't be constantly knocked down to double and single digits. It would also make the PVP more fun. Our group got very restless by the discipline needed to minimize the risks. We could have collected a LOT more stones if we'd simply moved faster, taken a few more risks, but the risks weren't worth it because the losses were too high. I WANT to go to a PVP area to get in combat, but if I did so I not only usually lost all my stones, but often caused the others in my group to lose theirs. People will work just as hard to avoid losing 50% of their stones after they get their first multiplier. The enemy players will still seek that kill just as much, but it would greatly reduce the potential frustration and to level the playing field.

Uh....I'm not Sypher and I get FPS drops too, but I can get 50 TVS in like...3 minutes. Alone. You're doing it wrong.

I just killed about 5 pulls worth of mobs and got 120+ stones with the 2x bonus. Took about 2-3 minutes. Do like 10 pulls and bank your stones. Rinse and repeat. You can farm 1000+ stones very quickly, and relatively safely unless someone is ganking near you sewer entrance.

Nebthet78

Yes, they really need to put the Stone loss down to 50%, or less.

apostate9

Personofsecrets wrote: »

not a fan of the loss rate.

It is way to much of a loss for dying in a 1vX situation

Don't fight 1vX battles you can't win. Or find a guild. Or get better. Or sneak. Or bank your rocks. Pick one.

Nebthet78

apostate9 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

not a fan of the loss rate.

It is way to much of a loss for dying in a 1vX situation

Don't fight 1vX battles you can't win. Or find a guild. Or get better. Or sneak. Or bank your rocks. Pick one.

It wouldn't be so bad if ZOS created a small little safe area close to each Alliances home base so those not wanting to, nor comfortable with PVP can farm monsters and a few stones without worrying about loosing what little they can get to a zerg of other players rushing through the area.

If people want more actual risk, then go further out into the sewers and get a multiplier. Most pve people are not going to risk carrying more than 100-200 stones on them.

When I go to do the daily quests.. I carry none and ensure I carry as few as I can. I will also jump down from the sanctuary over and over and over again and let the other alliance waste their time killing me over and over again.... eventually the leave me alone.

kaithuzar

I agree they should adjust the numbers. If you die you should lose all your stones & the other player should be able to loot your corpse for armor & gold.

apostate9

Nope. PVP zone. Get better or get rekt. Not trying to be mean, or dismissive, but this won't happen, and ZOS has been very clear about their intent. IC is a PVP area. Dot.

vamp_emily

Aunatar wrote: »

How could average players be competitive if not running a big group? They wiuld obviously lose to group with same numbers, but more skills. I think everyone that disagrees with the OP is above the average regarding skills. We have to consider this game is not only for high skilled players, even casuals would like to enjoy winning and having v16 gear before Orsinium.
I have to admit i played a bit in a duo with a guildie of mines, in a sorc duo. Made like 3/4k Tel Var stones in a couple of hours, between mobs and other players. But not everybody is above average, not everybody is Nb or Sorc, think about it.

I'm a below average player when I am playing 1v1. I went to IC with a group, and proud to say I actually banked 140 stones. I died often.

With that being said, I disagree with "everyone that disagrees with the OP is above average".

This game is crazy:

- Players don't want to learn traits for crafting because it takes to long.
- Players want fast mounts but don't want to train/feed their mounts everyday.
- Players don't play pvp because someone hit them once and they died.
- Players yell nerf when they feel a class has a special skill that prevents them from being killed.
- Players can't kill someone and blame it on CP
-Players don't want to lose their telvar stones after dying in IC

I play PvP 95% of the time, only quest when i have too. Everyday in pvp I die often, get back on my mount and travel to the fight. Sometimes when i get there i get attacked by a large group and have to get back on my mount and try it again. If I am not dying, then more than likely I am crashing. The worst part is when i think i am winning a fight and then crash and log back in just to find my character laying there dead.

No matter how many times I die I get up and try again and I don't want everything to be nerfed, I want action, power, and fun. IC is part of PvP, its about fighting each other and getting rewarded.

I think if you die you should lose all of your stones and even gold you have on hand.

Stikato

80% is about perfect. Enough that the loss hurts, and the gain is good. But at least you get to keep some stones.

I could see maybe going as low as 60-70, but it seems pretty good where it is.

Mr_Nobody

I think they are all fine.


Yikas & Niko duo collects thousands of stones within seconds from killing confused enemy soldiers in the depths of the abandoned capital.

wraith808

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Dear PvE players:

This is an PvP content update. Get *** shrekt.

It is actually advertised as pve and pvp.

Not PvE and PvP... but rather PvP/PvE, i.e.

From the IC Copy:

A brand new PvP/PvE space that includes six Imperial City Districts

... meaning combined. Cannot be split. Merged. One and the same.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

vamp_emily wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

How could average players be competitive if not running a big group? They wiuld obviously lose to group with same numbers, but more skills. I think everyone that disagrees with the OP is above the average regarding skills. We have to consider this game is not only for high skilled players, even casuals would like to enjoy winning and having v16 gear before Orsinium.
I have to admit i played a bit in a duo with a guildie of mines, in a sorc duo. Made like 3/4k Tel Var stones in a couple of hours, between mobs and other players. But not everybody is above average, not everybody is Nb or Sorc, think about it.

I'm a below average player when I am playing 1v1. I went to IC with a group, and proud to say I actually banked 140 stones. I died often.

With that being said, I disagree with "everyone that disagrees with the OP is above average".

This game is crazy:

- Players don't want to learn traits for crafting because it takes to long.
- Players want fast mounts but don't want to train/feed their mounts everyday.
- Players don't play pvp because someone hit them once and they died.
- Players yell nerf when they feel a class has a special skill that prevents them from being killed.
- Players can't kill someone and blame it on CP
-Players don't want to lose their telvar stones after dying in IC

I play PvP 95% of the time, only quest when i have too. Everyday in pvp I die often, get back on my mount and travel to the fight. Sometimes when i get there i get attacked by a large group and have to get back on my mount and try it again. If I am not dying, then more than likely I am crashing. The worst part is when i think i am winning a fight and then crash and log back in just to find my character laying there dead.

No matter how many times I die I get up and try again and I don't want everything to be nerfed, I want action, power, and fun. IC is part of PvP, its about fighting each other and getting rewarded.

I think if you die you should lose all of your stones and even gold you have on hand.

The real problem is reward I dismissed the whole city it's a zergs safe haven VR 16 gear when Decon is just one when normal Decon is 1-9 mats the stones can but sets at VR15 for 1k and 8k for a small upgrade not needed the small change is not worth the work and the new sets drop rates are so low that a week in and I have yet to get so much as one so I don't care what they do with the city not much risk and Zerg warfare with little and in my case for the dropped sets no reward their is really no point if you don't spend hours farming mobs and I'm not that kind of gamer