Obligitory KEEP THE 100% LOSS thread.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

Seriously though, with so many ways to SECURE the Tel-Var stones as is, there needs to be some element of risk reward and some incentive for people to seek out PvP and make it interesting.

If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people won't be attracted to PvPing within the imperial city.
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people will continually grind Imperial City for hours on end with reckless abandon.
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then there will be no incentive to do the quests (the secure boxes of Tel-Var stones).
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then EVERYONE will be running around with a 4x multiplier on their pickups and it will TRIVIALIZE end game gearing.

That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you have to be cautious.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you'll maybe seek out less popular locations for safety sake.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means you'll think twice about diving in to fight that stinky Elf who thought that boss was theirs to fight.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means the satisfaction of making it back to safety with a big haul is so much greater.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that when you turn around and kill that 'ganking troll' and pick up 20k Tel-Var stones because he got cocky and didn't bank them you'll know he won't be there quite as often from now on in.

This is a great mechanic that adds far more to your experience than it takes. Step away from your need for instant gratification and enjoy the roller-coaster of emotions that this will provide you with instead of whining until it's nerfed to another mindless unemotional grind.

VincentBlanquin

in theory, if you have strong character strong class it can works. but game isnt only for hardcores. wait until see bigger picture

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

in theory, if you have strong character strong class it can works. but game isnt only for hardcores. wait until see bigger picture

Casuals can just join 20man zergsquads like they do in overworld cyro SAFETY IN NUMBERS BRAH.

Thalmont

Honestly if you want no risk go to a PvP campaign that your alliance absolutely dominates. On Xbox NA Azura's Star is absolutely dominated by AD, I assume There are some PvP campaigns on PC and PS4 that are similar.
So I'll do all that content from the safety of Azura's Star. If I want more risk I'll go to another Campaign. I'm big into Dark Souls so I love the risk of losing everything, chances are I'll likely switch campaigns from Azura's Star for the added risk. Once I'm tired of losing everything I'll go back to Azura's Star.

VincentBlanquin

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

in theory, if you have strong character strong class it can works. but game isnt only for hardcores. wait until see bigger picture

Casuals can just join 20man zergsquads like they do in overworld cyro SAFETY IN NUMBERS BRAH.

i think you know very well that most casuals rather quit than join zergsquad

snackrat

If this were an ideal world where everyone had the same resources maybe that would make sense.

But it isn't, and we don't. Someone who's based in Australia or New Zealand is operating at a significant disadvantage compared to an American in the same state as the US server. Someone using broadband is at a disadvantage over someone using fibre. These differences will be highlighted come the patch, because of the efforts to reduce PvP burst.

Should PvPers be rewarded for killing other players? Yes, absolutely. But connecting one players loss to another players gain directly makes every act in PvP no long 'just a game'. It's personal. You are actively and deliberately preventing their progression for the sake of your own enjoyment.

Rosveen

To keep the game going, both sides need to have fun. If you lower the number to 50% (or something else, discuss), winners keep their rewards and thrill of the kill, but losers don't feel like their effort was completely wasted. Do you think it would be better than 100%?

Anhedonie

You don't drop AP, yet people are attracted to PVPing in Cyro

DDuke

snackrat wrote: »

If this were an ideal world where everyone had the same resources maybe that would make sense.

But it isn't, and we don't. Someone who's based in Australia or New Zealand is operating at a significant disadvantage compared to an American in the same state as the US server. Someone using broadband is at a disadvantage over someone using fibre. These differences will be highlighted come the patch, because of the efforts to reduce PvP burst.

Should PvPers be rewarded for killing other players? Yes, absolutely. But connecting one players loss to another players gain directly makes every act in PvP no long 'just a game'. It's personal. You are actively and deliberately preventing their progression for the sake of your own enjoyment.

If you don't want that, you're free to continue PvP in the zero risk environment of Fort Ash/Nikels, or whatever you're zerging at the moment.

However, there are people who do enjoy the danger & excitement of high risk/reward gameplay.
Let them enjoy their thing without demanding everything to be catered for people like you.

Anhedonie wrote: »

You don't drop AP, yet people are attracted to PVPing in Cyro

As a long time PvPer, I have close to zero interest in the current repetitive & boring PvP where you do the same thing over & over again for little reward and absolutely no risk (well, if you have KillCounter your KDR can go down ).

The fun is gone, only thing left is grinding PvP ranks & achievements while waiting for something interesting (which we are getting).

Emma_Overload

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Seriously though, with so many ways to SECURE the Tel-Var stones as is, there needs to be some element of risk reward and some incentive for people to seek out PvP and make it interesting.

If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people won't be attracted to PvPing within the imperial city.
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people will continually grind Imperial City for hours on end with reckless abandon.
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then there will be no incentive to do the quests (the secure boxes of Tel-Var stones).
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then EVERYONE will be running around with a 4x multiplier on their pickups and it will TRIVIALIZE end game gearing.

That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you have to be cautious.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you'll maybe seek out less popular locations for safety sake.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means you'll think twice about diving in to fight that stinky Elf who thought that boss was theirs to fight.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means the satisfaction of making it back to safety with a big haul is so much greater.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that when you turn around and kill that 'ganking troll' and pick up 20k Tel-Var stones because he got cocky and didn't bank them you'll know he won't be there quite as often from now on in.

This is a great mechanic that adds far more to your experience than it takes. Step away from your need for instant gratification and enjoy the roller-coaster of emotions that this will provide you with instead of whining until it's nerfed to another mindless unemotional grind.

"If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people won't be attracted to PvPing within the imperial city."

If PvPers don't want to PvP without the "reward" of making other players miserable, then maybe it's time to admit that PvP is boring and pointless.

"If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people will continually grind Imperial City for hours on end with reckless abandon."

So what? Some people like grinding... it's very relaxing!

"If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then there will be no incentive to do the quests (the secure boxes of Tel-Var stones)."

So what? The only point of these so-called "quests" is to try to trick PvEers into buying the IC DLC. I can guarantee you that you are NOT going to be able to earn a worthwhile amount of TV stones by doing quests that can only be done ONCE a day.

"If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then EVERYONE will be running around with a 4x multiplier on their pickups and it will TRIVIALIZE end game gearing."

LOL, then the devs can get rid of the multiplier that no one asked for. Problem solved.

"That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you have to be cautious."

I'm already cautious. What you really mean is that players will be nerve-racked with anxiety.

"That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you'll maybe seek out less popular locations for safety sake."

Impossible to say until we get to explore the IC ourselves.

"That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means you'll think twice about diving in to fight that stinky Elf who thought that boss was theirs to fight."

Think twice? I'd rather not think about fighting stink elves at all. We should be helping each other, instead!

"That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means the satisfaction of making it back to safety with a big haul is so much greater."

This will NEVER offset the humiliation of being robbed by a human player.

"That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that when you turn around and kill that 'ganking troll' and pick up 20k Tel-Var stones because he got cocky and didn't bank them you'll know he won't be there quite as often from now on in. "

No, I seriously doubt that will be how it plays out. Ganking trolls will carry NO TV stones until they hit a big score, and then they will use their Imperial Sigil to port out.

"This is a great mechanic that adds far more to your experience than it takes. Step away from your need for instant gratification and enjoy the roller-coaster of emotions that this will provide you with instead of whining until it's nerfed to another mindless unemotional grind."

I have no desire whatsoever for a roller-coaster of emotions. I just want to grind away for gold and gear as I listen to music and think happy thoughts

DDuke

Rosveen wrote: »

To keep the game going, both sides need to have fun. If you lower the number to 50% (or something else, discuss), winners keep their rewards and thrill of the kill, but losers don't feel like their effort was completely wasted. Do you think it would be better than 100%?

They could have a special campaign rule in one of the campaigns: earn only 50% of Tel Var stones, but lose only 50% of them as well.

Farorin

snackrat wrote: »

If this were an ideal world where everyone had the same resources maybe that would make sense.

But it isn't, and we don't. Someone who's based in Australia or New Zealand is operating at a significant disadvantage compared to an American in the same state as the US server. Someone using broadband is at a disadvantage over someone using fibre. These differences will be highlighted come the patch, because of the efforts to reduce PvP burst.

Should PvPers be rewarded for killing other players? Yes, absolutely. But connecting one players loss to another players gain directly makes every act in PvP no long 'just a game'. It's personal. You are actively and deliberately preventing their progression for the sake of your own enjoyment.

I am from aus, have terrible connection, often get lag, and yet am super excited for this. Lag problems are lag problems and will be a problem regardless of the systems. So what is your point?

Phinix1

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

in theory, if you have strong character strong class it can works. but game isnt only for hardcores. wait until see bigger picture

Casuals can just join 20man zergsquads like they do in overworld cyro SAFETY IN NUMBERS BRAH.

An easy assumption for someone that has made up their mind.

VincentBlanquin speaks with wisdom, yet you dismiss him out of hand saying "yeah well if people that don't share my play style don't like it they can just go zerg or something."

Locking paid PVE content behind a griefer PVP wall is a psychotic business decision and the reason, along with the lack of caps and catch-ups on the CP system, that I am done with ESO for the foreseeable future.

Have fun looting stones off non-existent players.

leepalmer95

lol, looting = zerg = gankers = boring pvp.

JD2013

I'm all for it and I'm not at all the best at PVP.

Something with some level of tactics and difficulty is needed. And this is definitely a good move. They also said things may change depending upon feedback from the PTS. So, if you don't like this, download the PTS and make yourself heard rather than having endless complaint threads here.

Phinix1

JD2013 wrote: »

I'm all for it and I'm not at all the best at PVP.

Something with some level of tactics and difficulty is needed. And this is definitely a good move. They also said things may change depending upon feedback from the PTS. So, if you don't like this, download the PTS and make yourself heard rather than having endless complaint threads here.

Honestly, I gave up trying to make myself heard with the whole CP issue. People still grinding, people still botting, still no caps, still way to catch up. It is pay to win by any other name, but who cares.

Forcing PVE players to PVP to access paid content shouldn't need an internet campaign. The universally bad-idea-ness of it should be self evident.

Merlight

snackrat wrote: »

Should PvPers be rewarded for killing other players? Yes, absolutely. But connecting one players loss to another players gain directly makes every act in PvP no long 'just a game'. It's personal. You are actively and deliberately preventing their progression for the sake of your own enjoyment.

That's the nature of competition. I read about people running trials with all their 8 characters, filling the leaderboards and thus preventing other players' progression (if by progression you mean gear rewards).

People who can't stand being killed simply won't be satisfied, it's irrelevant how many stones they gain or lose, they will only go there to do their chore, and leave as soon as possible.

All of those people scared of losing their rewards tend to think that reducing the loot to 50% will somehow improve their situation. It will not. Look, the guy who just killed you and robbed you of all your stones, can now lose them to someone else. If you reduced the loot to 50%, he would have 25% of your stones safe in his pocket, because his killer would only take 50% of his loot. So in effect, reducing loot to 50% gives the ganker a guaranteed reward for killing you. A system with lower risk will attract more gankers, not less.

ZakuBeta

I think that all cameras in IC should be locked to First Person. That will make the content more fun. More risk. No seeing behind yourself. More immersion/realistic for a city fight.

Hunting opponents is a bit more difficult when you can't see a large area. I don't mind it in a battles area, but for this........

Sithisvoid

All it does is accentuate the gap between players. With all the backlash about vet ranks and CP all this will do is give even more Bad PR and go a long way to ending the franchise. No matter what pvp players say TES will ALWAYS be a pve game and pve needs to be first.

Selique

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Seriously though, with so many ways to SECURE the Tel-Var stones as is, there needs to be some element of risk reward and some incentive for people to seek out PvP and make it interesting.

If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people won't be attracted to PvPing within the imperial city.
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people will continually grind Imperial City for hours on end with reckless abandon.
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then there will be no incentive to do the quests (the secure boxes of Tel-Var stones).
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then EVERYONE will be running around with a 4x multiplier on their pickups and it will TRIVIALIZE end game gearing.

That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you have to be cautious.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you'll maybe seek out less popular locations for safety sake.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means you'll think twice about diving in to fight that stinky Elf who thought that boss was theirs to fight.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means the satisfaction of making it back to safety with a big haul is so much greater.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that when you turn around and kill that 'ganking troll' and pick up 20k Tel-Var stones because he got cocky and didn't bank them you'll know he won't be there quite as often from now on in.

This is a great mechanic that adds far more to your experience than it takes. Step away from your need for instant gratification and enjoy the roller-coaster of emotions that this will provide you with instead of whining until it's nerfed to another mindless unemotional grind.

My thoughts exactly. Risk makes the reward so much sweeter. And the fact that I can kill people and get a reward!? What sort of crazy idea is that!? Rewarding me for my hard earned kills!

Sausage

100% is too harsh if you get disconnected. I get DC every 1-2 hour or so in Cyrodil atm.

Sithisvoid

Sausage wrote: »

100% is too harsh if you get disconnected. I get DC every 1-2 hour or so in Cyrodil atm.

Right? And it's going to make everyone run in stealth zergs and exploit loading screens more than they are now. Prepare for constant lag

technohic

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

in theory, if you have strong character strong class it can works. but game isnt only for hardcores. wait until see bigger picture

Casuals can just join 20man zergsquads like they do in overworld cyro SAFETY IN NUMBERS BRAH.

i think you know very well that most casuals rather quit than join zergsquad

This is just being unreasonable. You have options here but you want the game to be tailor made completely to your preference?

Your options are:

1. Don't go into the PvP zone at all. You can buy whatever the stones can buy and while gear might be nice, maybe its is very PvP oriented or at least you have tons of others sets of gear you can use in stead. you still have the tower and prison that can be ported directly to that have no PvP in it at all for content.

2. Do just the daily, risk some PvP, but get reward boxes that cannot be looted until you open them. Slight risk you get killed but you get to keep your stones.

3. Venture in the sewers very near to your safe zone in a campaign dominated by your alliance and where a lot of people from your alliance are. You can bank 50 each time you get it, which should be after 13 mobs at most and have minimal risk. You will not be worth the time it takes a ganker to set up and avoid traffic for what could be a piddly amount they can earn themselves in just 10 minutes.

4. Little bit of 3 but maybe you group up and zerg around in your numbers. Theres bound to be some serious PvPers with you and you can just fly around melting mobs and just collecting the stones as you get your credit and you make yourself a very hard target for a ganker by sticking close to crown. You will risk a bit more, though; as zergs attract other zergs, but in a faction dominated campaign you are probably as safe as safe can be.

technohic

Sithisvoid wrote: »

All it does is accentuate the gap between players. With all the backlash about vet ranks and CP all this will do is give even more Bad PR and go a long way to ending the franchise. No matter what pvp players say TES will ALWAYS be a pve game and pve needs to be first.

This is something I can earn just as fast as the better players. Probably by grouping with some of them. CPs are a time gate. Thats the difference.

Sithisvoid

technohic wrote: »

Sithisvoid wrote: »

All it does is accentuate the gap between players. With all the backlash about vet ranks and CP all this will do is give even more Bad PR and go a long way to ending the franchise. No matter what pvp players say TES will ALWAYS be a pve game and pve needs to be first.

This is something I can earn just as fast as the better players. Probably by grouping with some of them. CPs are a time gate. Thats the difference.

No what i mean is the guys with the high number of CP? Yeah they took all your stuff. They are going to sit on top and wreck anyone who tries to do anything. I mean it's whatever. I'm grinding CP all day so it's gonna be me, I just feel bad for the rest of the players.

Pangnirtung

Both PVPers and PVEers need spaces in the game where they can independently get the same rewards, armor, experience, etc.

For all that I care, the Imperial City could be strictly PVP and 100% loss on death of EVERYTHING not just the stones.

Just the same, give me places in the game where I can enjoy the game with the same cool armor and weapons that the Imperial CIty offers without being forced to PVP to get it.

Yinmaigao

Good thing"disagree" button is coming back

technohic

Sithisvoid wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Sithisvoid wrote: »

All it does is accentuate the gap between players. With all the backlash about vet ranks and CP all this will do is give even more Bad PR and go a long way to ending the franchise. No matter what pvp players say TES will ALWAYS be a pve game and pve needs to be first.

This is something I can earn just as fast as the better players. Probably by grouping with some of them. CPs are a time gate. Thats the difference.

No what i mean is the guys with the high number of CP? Yeah they took all your stuff. They are going to sit on top and wreck anyone who tries to do anything. I mean it's whatever. I'm grinding CP all day so it's gonna be me, I just feel bad for the rest of the players.

That is a discussion for another thread that has nothing to do with TV Stones. Balance is a separate issue. That said; in its current form, I just wouldn't plan on 1v1ing someone like that. If you are not one of the elite, don't try going around playing like one.

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Both PVPers and PVEers need spaces in the game where they can independently get the same rewards, armor, experience, etc.

For all that I care, the Imperial City could be strictly PVP and 100% loss on death of EVERYTHING not just the stones.

Just the same, give me places in the game where I can enjoy the game with the same cool armor and weapons that the Imperial CIty offers without being forced to PVP to get it.

Things never work like that directly. I cannot get monster helms PvPing. You already can't get gear that comes from the PvP vendor PvEing. Lucky for you, indirectly you still can buy just about every piece of PvP gear with gold you earn PvEing. Same can't be said for PvE gear.

dday3six

I'd think something like 70-50% for player death and 35-25% for monster death. At 100 for player and 10 for monster seems like players would just rabbit for the nearest pack and let it kill them.

Attorneyatlawl

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Seriously though, with so many ways to SECURE the Tel-Var stones as is, there needs to be some element of risk reward and some incentive for people to seek out PvP and make it interesting.

If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people won't be attracted to PvPing within the imperial city.
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then people will continually grind Imperial City for hours on end with reckless abandon.
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then there will be no incentive to do the quests (the secure boxes of Tel-Var stones).
If you don't drop your Tel-Var stones on death then EVERYONE will be running around with a 4x multiplier on their pickups and it will TRIVIALIZE end game gearing.

That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you have to be cautious.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that you'll maybe seek out less popular locations for safety sake.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means you'll think twice about diving in to fight that stinky Elf who thought that boss was theirs to fight.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means the satisfaction of making it back to safety with a big haul is so much greater.
That you do drop your Tel-Var stones on death means that when you turn around and kill that 'ganking troll' and pick up 20k Tel-Var stones because he got cocky and didn't bank them you'll know he won't be there quite as often from now on in.

This is a great mechanic that adds far more to your experience than it takes. Step away from your need for instant gratification and enjoy the roller-coaster of emotions that this will provide you with instead of whining until it's nerfed to another mindless unemotional grind.

Nothing else needs be said in my opinion .

CP5

I hope more people will see the major flaw in this system, least one of the major flaws I noticed. Pve builds are good at killing mobs, and mobs drop a lot of stones. Pvp builds can't kill mobs that well, but can easily kill poorly prepared players. If two players run into eachother, one with a pvp build and one with a pve build, but both with equal skill, who would win? This system is designed for players to farm each other, nothing more. Pve players simply loose all their progress and pvp players don't get the fair and engaging fights they are looking for.