Telvar Stones Losses Need Adjusted

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

No amount matter with teams Parma camping the gates to the sewers

Forestd16b14_ESO

No no it isn't you loosing 80% of your stones to zergs is a bit much. Like if you died to 1 or 2 players then yea 80% makes sense but loosing 80% to a blob of player enemies not so much.

Kartalin

Our group had 6-12 people in it over the course of the 4 hours I played, and I ended up with 3k stones over that period. Some of it we were in the sewers killing the bosses, other times we were doing quests in the city and also taking on any EP or DC that we ran into.

Would have finished with more stones but we ran into a guild of shadows zerg at one point in the sewers :P
.

ElfFromSpace

Are there any "elite PVPers" willing to boast about how many TV stones they can get in a few hours of play?

Given how many I know my group was finding and how many we were losing and how few the enemy players we were killing usually had, it's my theory that MOST of the players in the city (i understand that the sewers are better for farming the stones) had only 200 average at best. Given the numbers that were being lost to normal battle encounters there should have been a LOT more floating around. I don't have enough data to do the math, but I'd guess that the ones who were ganking and running without dying must have been gaining thousands an hour from the other players.

And I don't mind losses, it's part of the fun. I am just asking that the slope be less steep, and better balanced.

tcgoetzub17_ESO

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I played tonight with a group of 8-20 and played for over 3 hours and came out of it with less than 50 Telvar Stones.

I'm confused about your results. I've played about four hours in IC. All solo. I ended up with ~ 3200 stones. I'm not a top tier player.

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I propose a sliding scale....

but I agree that a sliding scale would be more fair

olemanwinter

Docmandu wrote: »

The trick to gaining Tel Var stones is AVOIDING PvP.

Nice concept for a PvP-oriented patch, isn't it. It also teaches people that were already afraid of PvP to be terrified of PvP now.

If you're terrified of a game....it's not the fault of the game. :-/

MsPtibiscuit

Docmandu wrote: »

The trick to gaining Tel Var stones is AVOIDING PvP.

Nice concept for a PvP-oriented patch, isn't it. It also teaches people that were already afraid of PvP to be terrified of PvP now.

If everybody do PvE content, then people will carry more stones, and there will be more PvPers.
On the other hand, if there's too many PvPers, some of them will stop trying to hunt players and do PvE.

That's what is cool with player-based mechanics, they generally tend to balance themselves.

olemanwinter

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

1. it was my very first time in IC. So my experience was the same as that of every single player who isn't sure about PVP and decides to try it for the first time.

This is like saying every bicycle should be sold with training wheels because every person will be nervous the first time they get on a bike.

Except every bike isn't made for a new rider. And every PvP isn't made for a new player.

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

However I have yet to see anyone put up any solid argument why NOT to change the loss rates.

For the same reason they sell bikes without training wheels. Because once you know how to ride, it's MORE FUN!

Shuichi

This would ruin exactly what this entire system is based upon. 80% is too low, you should lose all of them.

TheBull

I disagree. I'm having a great time taking stones from farmers.

TheBull

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

Are there any "elite PVPers" willing to boast about how many TV stones they can get in a few hours of play?

Given how many I know my group was finding and how many we were losing and how few the enemy players we were killing usually had, it's my theory that MOST of the players in the city (i understand that the sewers are better for farming the stones) had only 200 average at best. Given the numbers that were being lost to normal battle encounters there should have been a LOT more floating around. I don't have enough data to do the math, but I'd guess that the ones who were ganking and running without dying must have been gaining thousands an hour from the other players.

And I don't mind losses, it's part of the fun. I am just asking that the slope be less steep, and better balanced.

I'm sitting around 9k now. Solo, duo, and today trio.

edit - Want it balanced? Stop zerging around and stop dying. You have all the control.

Lord Xanhorn

I suppose if you really want stones, you go to the campaign your faction is dominating....Im AD and I got destroyed in thorn by all the EP. Essentially you cant get any distance from your base without a huge zerg wiping the floor taking 80% of your loots.

Acrolas

A think a better solution is to come out with a Thief's Redemption armor set, where the full five-piece passive is you have a 20% chance to keep 25% additional Stones upon death.

It would be far from the best PVP armor, but mitigating some risk is a fair trade-off.

Selique

olemanwinter wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I played tonight with a group of 8-20 and played for over 3 hours and came out of it with less than 50 Telvar Stones.

That's absurd! Leave your group....go kill 1 single group of mobs and you'd have more than that. I mean, that's so pathetically low....and with 20 people no less, you can't possibly blame that level of production on the system or other players.

Seriously, Why are you grouping with 8-20 people if your goal is to get stones? That's the entire problem with your results.

I also played about 3 hours with 1 other person and got 2000 stones. Then played another 2 hours with 2 other players and got 1500 more.

This is a 100% L2P issue, but I'll be happy to actually help you L2P. Here goes:

In the imperial city where most stones come from other players, and it's more intense PvP, I bank every time I get 200 stones. I carry virtually none.

In the imperial sewers I always start by carrying 100 stones for the modifier and return to bank when I get several hundred more, never exceeding 1000.

However, if you want to make some quick stones, start with 1000 and just make very tight rounds next to your base killing mobs. You can make 1000 stones an hour without much effort at all, SOLO.

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

The real problem is the 80% loss to PVPers.

Nonsense. If I can gain thousands of stones solo and with 1 or 2 players, while having to content with the same players and elements, then you should certainly be able to survive with 8-20. lol

The problem is you're taking Zerg-bad tactics that have carried you through existing PvP and applying them to an entirely different PvP experience.

In traditional PvP you and your 20 friends who frankly aren't very good, ball up, run over 4 enemies, feel good about yourself, and repeat until you finally come across 20 enemies...then you wipe....look at the AP you gained and feel pleased.

But in Imperial City, your group of 20 friends gets to divide very few stones from rolling over those 4 enemies, getting very few per person...and then when your zerg eventually wipes....you give it all back....end up with 50 stones and start QQing on the forums.

STEPS TO ACQUIRING STONES:

1) Run in small groups or solo

2) Understand the modifiers and embrace the "risk vs reward" to know how much to carry and when.

3) Kill mobs

4) AVOID large enemy groups.

5) Bank stones

6) Stop QQing.


EDIT: If you are DC alliance, hit me up in game and I'll run with you for 1 hour and blow your mind as far as Tel Var stone production. I don't say this mean at all, but it's so absurdly easy to amass thousands of stones that this can be nothing other than a L2P issue.

Quoted for truth.

Xendyn

You already got a nerf to this. Enough already.

You want to be able to farm stones? Let's get back to access the way it was intended. This "everyone has to have access 24/7" was obviously going to be the worst case for having huge groups roaming the city.
The access system worked in DAOC and it will work here if people would stop thinking they know better and you will be able to get your stones more easily.

Screwing things up even more isn't going to help.

ewhite106b16_ESO

Stop playing in a zerg - 13+ in IC is definitely a zerg. You created your own problem, being in a large group gets minimal TV stones because the # of stones is divided so many ways. IMO the gain of stones for large groups should be even LESS then it is now.

ElfFromSpace

Xendyn wrote: »

The access system worked in DAOC and it will work here if people would stop thinking they know better and you will be able to get your stones more easily.

What is DAOC and how does your proposed access system work?

I've yet to see a single responds explaining how the current system is better balanced aside from the obvious, greed based, "I want it all" logic. The staff said they wanted players to fear dying.. do they think players would voluntarily give up even 30% of their stones willingly? Currently players are LESS afraid of dying, in fact the suiciding on NPCs is going rampant as the best way to keep your stones.

I lose respect for players who will only pick on the ones weaker than themselves and are afraid of the challenge that they'd only get a really big haul of stones by actually fighting others of the top players. Is it REALLY necessary for some players to be able to get 9000 stones an hour (or did that take a few hours) while others get 100? If you can't bring in 90 times as much as other players it's not broken enough? If you're that good, even with the change you'll easily pull down 5-10 times the stones of less experienced players.

ElfFromSpace

ewhite106b16_ESO wrote: »

Stop playing in a zerg - 13+ in IC is definitely a zerg. You created your own problem, being in a large group gets minimal TV stones because the # of stones is divided so many ways. IMO the gain of stones for large groups should be even LESS then it is now.

We were actually trying to do the quests. The quests require killing bosses that cannot be killed with 1-2 players. Yes, I am fully aware that we could have farmed more stones if we'd stayed in the sewers, right next to our home base, and boringly farmed the same 3 bosses that spawn there. I HATE grinding. I do not expect to get the same rewards as a grinder, nor the same rewards as someone who specializes, but can anyone explain how the proposed changes would not make the system overall better? Making it so players are rewarded appropriately for their efforts.

Dyride

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

ewhite106b16_ESO wrote: »

Stop playing in a zerg - 13+ in IC is definitely a zerg. You created your own problem, being in a large group gets minimal TV stones because the # of stones is divided so many ways. IMO the gain of stones for large groups should be even LESS then it is now.

We were actually trying to do the quests. The quests require killing bosses that cannot be killed with 1-2 players. Yes, I am fully aware that we could have farmed more stones if we'd stayed in the sewers, right next to our home base, and boringly farmed the same 3 bosses that spawn there. I HATE grinding. I do not expect to get the same rewards as a grinder, nor the same rewards as someone who specializes, but can anyone explain how the proposed changes would not make the system overall better? Making it so players are rewarded appropriately for their efforts.

If you are only there for the quests, whats the problem with losing some stones every now and then?

This is obviously the first somewhat real penalty for death in ESO so I understand how it is different for some people but I feel like the risk versus reward needs to remain in place.

Otherwise it is just get 200 stones and bank. Repeat ad nauseam.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yep just like I said since they announced the stupid idea to lose these to players it was a bad idea. Going to be a LOT of people demanding refunds. Hey tho the pvp gank squads got their "love" finally from a developer.

Aunatar

How could average players be competitive if not running a big group? They wiuld obviously lose to group with same numbers, but more skills. I think everyone that disagrees with the OP is above the average regarding skills. We have to consider this game is not only for high skilled players, even casuals would like to enjoy winning and having v16 gear before Orsinium.
I have to admit i played a bit in a duo with a guildie of mines, in a sorc duo. Made like 3/4k Tel Var stones in a couple of hours, between mobs and other players. But not everybody is above average, not everybody is Nb or Sorc, think about it.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yep just like I said since they announced the stupid idea to lose these to players it was a bad idea. Going to be a LOT of people demanding refunds. Hey tho the pvp gank squads got their "love" finally from a developer.

As a ganking, I will say true ganking is dead now it's gank armies and that's just skilled. I will be calling first thing in the morning for a refund. Not in the Imperial City is worth zerging or farming for hours for, I wanted new content not new grinds.

You run with a 8-10 group don't get much, 3 men get hit by the other 8-10 groups solo get like 400 stones really fast and get jumped as you get to the sewer down that and the fact that deconstruction gets you one damn piece of materials when you need 110 to make one single piece of VR16 gear it's just not worth it.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

They do need to adjust the losses. There is no reason why someone should lose all their stones just because a 20+ man zerg is camping their home base and such.

Yeah I've already got a blacklist of guilds now because they just swarmed up and ran to enemy bases in the sewers and camped.them.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

Also to 25% ->100% loot scale using the multipler system purposed during PTS would be good.

AshTal

I wonder where the winners are I was in imperial city for approx. 3 hours (after the 3 hour queue to get in) and I suspect there are some organised groups rolling in stones but the average player probably isn't. Most of the groups I encountered didn;t give a crap about killing mobs or quests they just wanted to gank other groups quickly and easily. Due to the respawn points even if killed they were back in the fight within seconds.

I am not sure what the idea of the IC was but I am guessing a mindless meat grinder wasn't the idea.

nimander99

All I know is I have less than half the pvp strength I had pre patch as a magica Templar... I am literally getting romped in IC. My mag doesn't regen my skills do slightly less than half the damage they did on the 30th... so this was the plan for Templars?

I am extremely confused.

Sanct16

Dear PvE players:

This is an PvP content update. Get *** shrekt.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

nimander99 wrote: »

All I know is I have less than half the pvp strength I had pre patch as a magica Templar... I am literally getting romped in IC. My mag doesn't regen my skills do slightly less than half the damage they did on the 30th... so this was the plan for Templars?

I am extremely confused.

And Stamina Nightblades my power hits like a damn wet noodle. Power builds are meaningless had far more kills gap closing with Invasion and feared if the blocked it and healing debuffs high damage and critical is worthless just stack max resources and regeneration and run them out of stamina this is just sad.

I don't even fear lone gankers anymore play your way is a damned joke now.

Personofsecrets

not a fan of the loss rate.

It is way to much of a loss for dying in a 1vX situation

Personofsecrets

Sanct16 wrote: »

Dear PvE players:

This is an PvP content update. Get *** shrekt.

It is actually advertised as pve and pvp.