Telvar Stones Losses Need Adjusted

apostate9

wraith808 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Dear PvE players:

This is an PvP content update. Get *** shrekt.

It is actually advertised as pve and pvp.

Not PvE and PvP... but rather PvP/PvE, i.e.

From the IC Copy:

A brand new PvP/PvE space that includes six Imperial City Districts

... meaning combined. Cannot be split. Merged. One and the same.

Yes. This.

apostate9

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

How could average players be competitive if not running a big group? They wiuld obviously lose to group with same numbers, but more skills. I think everyone that disagrees with the OP is above the average regarding skills. We have to consider this game is not only for high skilled players, even casuals would like to enjoy winning and having v16 gear before Orsinium.
I have to admit i played a bit in a duo with a guildie of mines, in a sorc duo. Made like 3/4k Tel Var stones in a couple of hours, between mobs and other players. But not everybody is above average, not everybody is Nb or Sorc, think about it.

I'm a below average player when I am playing 1v1. I went to IC with a group, and proud to say I actually banked 140 stones. I died often.

With that being said, I disagree with "everyone that disagrees with the OP is above average".

This game is crazy:

- Players don't want to learn traits for crafting because it takes to long.
- Players want fast mounts but don't want to train/feed their mounts everyday.
- Players don't play pvp because someone hit them once and they died.
- Players yell nerf when they feel a class has a special skill that prevents them from being killed.
- Players can't kill someone and blame it on CP
-Players don't want to lose their telvar stones after dying in IC

I play PvP 95% of the time, only quest when i have too. Everyday in pvp I die often, get back on my mount and travel to the fight. Sometimes when i get there i get attacked by a large group and have to get back on my mount and try it again. If I am not dying, then more than likely I am crashing. The worst part is when i think i am winning a fight and then crash and log back in just to find my character laying there dead.

No matter how many times I die I get up and try again and I don't want everything to be nerfed, I want action, power, and fun. IC is part of PvP, its about fighting each other and getting rewarded.

I think if you die you should lose all of your stones and even gold you have on hand.

The real problem is reward I dismissed the whole city it's a zergs safe haven VR 16 gear when Decon is just one when normal Decon is 1-9 mats the stones can but sets at VR15 for 1k and 8k for a small upgrade not needed the small change is not worth the work and the new sets drop rates are so low that a week in and I have yet to get so much as one so I don't care what they do with the city not much risk and Zerg warfare with little and in my case for the dropped sets no reward their is really no point if you don't spend hours farming mobs and I'm not that kind of gamer

Maybe punctuation would have made that blurb readable?

nimander99

So I've just come to terms with grinding Irrigation Tunnels ad nauseam for TV Stones and deco gear, occasionally I'll head to the surface and try to do the quests. But as far as enjoying the content...

I mean, It could be any-city/dungeon/anywhere there's no chance to soak up the atmosphere so I ask myself, why did the devs even bother creating storyline and atmosphere... just stick pvpers in a huge maze give 100% gear and currency loss and skull thrones and goblets filled with their slain enemies tears and everyone would be happy.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

apostate9 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

How could average players be competitive if not running a big group? They wiuld obviously lose to group with same numbers, but more skills. I think everyone that disagrees with the OP is above the average regarding skills. We have to consider this game is not only for high skilled players, even casuals would like to enjoy winning and having v16 gear before Orsinium.
I have to admit i played a bit in a duo with a guildie of mines, in a sorc duo. Made like 3/4k Tel Var stones in a couple of hours, between mobs and other players. But not everybody is above average, not everybody is Nb or Sorc, think about it.

I'm a below average player when I am playing 1v1. I went to IC with a group, and proud to say I actually banked 140 stones. I died often.

With that being said, I disagree with "everyone that disagrees with the OP is above average".

This game is crazy:

- Players don't want to learn traits for crafting because it takes to long.
- Players want fast mounts but don't want to train/feed their mounts everyday.
- Players don't play pvp because someone hit them once and they died.
- Players yell nerf when they feel a class has a special skill that prevents them from being killed.
- Players can't kill someone and blame it on CP
-Players don't want to lose their telvar stones after dying in IC

I play PvP 95% of the time, only quest when i have too. Everyday in pvp I die often, get back on my mount and travel to the fight. Sometimes when i get there i get attacked by a large group and have to get back on my mount and try it again. If I am not dying, then more than likely I am crashing. The worst part is when i think i am winning a fight and then crash and log back in just to find my character laying there dead.

No matter how many times I die I get up and try again and I don't want everything to be nerfed, I want action, power, and fun. IC is part of PvP, its about fighting each other and getting rewarded.

I think if you die you should lose all of your stones and even gold you have on hand.

The real problem is reward I dismissed the whole city it's a zergs safe haven VR 16 gear when Decon is just one when normal Decon is 1-9 mats the stones can but sets at VR15 for 1k and 8k for a small upgrade not needed the small change is not worth the work and the new sets drop rates are so low that a week in and I have yet to get so much as one so I don't care what they do with the city not much risk and Zerg warfare with little and in my case for the dropped sets no reward their is really no point if you don't spend hours farming mobs and I'm not that kind of gamer

Maybe punctuation would have made that blurb readable?

The real problem is the "reward" it's a whole lot of farming and grinding with next to nothing for the time spent. I dismissed the whole city it's a zerg's safe haven friends and foe all you see is a empty District or a Zerg. VR 16 gear when it's deconned is drops just one mat, when normal decon gear drop is 1-9 mats and you need 130 per VR16 piece. So grind some more for a small difference in a set value.

The stones can buy sets at VR15 for 1k and VR16 for 8k for a small upgrade that is not really needed the small change is not worth the time. The new sets drop rates are so low that a week in The City and the only sets I have from there are the ones I got with stones. As I have yet to get so much as one so I don't care what they do with the city too much risk and Zerg warfare with little and in my case for the dropped sets no reward their is really no point if you don't spend hours farming mobs and I'm not that kind of gamer

Used Siri to type while I was driving hands free work most of the time

Reznique

With the amount of zerg trains stomping through the IC, farming stones is a million times easier than finding some good PVP interactions.

k2blader

nimander99 wrote: »

So I've just come to terms with grinding Irrigation Tunnels ad nauseam for TV Stones and deco gear, occasionally I'll head to the surface and try to do the quests. But as far as enjoying the content...

I mean, It could be any-city/dungeon/anywhere there's no chance to soak up the atmosphere so I ask myself, why did the devs even bother creating storyline and atmosphere... just stick pvpers in a huge maze give 100% gear and currency loss and skull thrones and goblets filled with their slain enemies tears and everyone would be happy.

Yes I think that'd be great for many of these "PVPers". lol

Make the TV stone loss go negative for them too.

NewBlacksmurf

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

The access system worked in DAOC and it will work here if people would stop thinking they know better and you will be able to get your stones more easily.

What is DAOC and how does your proposed access system work?

I've yet to see a single responds explaining how the current system is better balanced aside from the obvious, greed based, "I want it all" logic. The staff said they wanted players to fear dying.. do they think players would voluntarily give up even 30% of their stones willingly? Currently players are LESS afraid of dying, in fact the suiciding on NPCs is going rampant as the best way to keep your stones.

I lose respect for players who will only pick on the ones weaker than themselves and are afraid of the challenge that they'd only get a really big haul of stones by actually fighting others of the top players. Is it REALLY necessary for some players to be able to get 9000 stones an hour (or did that take a few hours) while others get 100? If you can't bring in 90 times as much as other players it's not broken enough? If you're that good, even with the change you'll easily pull down 5-10 times the stones of less experienced players.

DAoC (Dark Age of Camelot) is an older game that is eerily similar to this in a ton of ways.
In that game the equivalent of Imperial City was called Darkness Falls

In that game access was obtained by owning x amounts of keeps in the Frontier which is comparable to Cyrodil.

TBois

Yeah they need limited access. The Imperial City was designed as a reward for the faction that can hold the keeps necessary for entry. Now that it became a paid DLC and many people wanted open access, Imperial City is no longer the reward. It's a necessity for everyone trying to get the new gear which is now the reward. This makes the Imperial City a quite boring grind house for anyone wanting endgame gear.

Pangnirtung

I found this thread interesting and informative.

As a PVE'er who has no interest in PVP I was tempted to use my credit crowns that were for months subscribed to purchase the IC.

The ONLY reason that I even considered the IC was to get better gear. After reading through the posts it seems that it isn't worth my while as I can just as easily purchase what I want through guild stores.

Thanks all for the info and opinions.

Nebthet78

sixuponthelot wrote: »

Yeah they need limited access. The Imperial City was designed as a reward for the faction that can hold the keeps necessary for entry. Now that it became a paid DLC and many people wanted open access, Imperial City is no longer the reward. It's a necessity for everyone trying to get the new gear which is now the reward. This makes the Imperial City a quite boring grind house for anyone wanting endgame gear.

Pangnirtung wrote: »

I found this thread interesting and informative.

As a PVE'er who has no interest in PVP I was tempted to use my credit crowns that were for months subscribed to purchase the IC.

The ONLY reason that I even considered the IC was to get better gear. After reading through the posts it seems that it isn't worth my while as I can just as easily purchase what I want through guild stores.

Thanks all for the info and opinions.

Exactly on both counts.. heck, I would be willing to pay ZOS 5000 crowns for a PVE only version of IC with no stone multiplier!!

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO

Hopefully they won't bring more PvP content that affects PvE. It totally sucks for Non-PvPers

It should simply be accepted that people have preferences and that it is their good right to like or dislike doing certain game content.
Some prefer Ego Shooter, some prefer RPG... others prefer Fantasy and others Sci Fi... same with PvE and PvP.

I know there are those uber mega epic badass PvP guys (that invested bazillions of game time into PvP) who would love to see PvEler for some dumb reason smashed in the dirt. That is just some silly childish notion.

It's completely clear that an experienced PvP person can easily smash an experienced PvE player. No challenge there.
Different play styles, mostly different use of equipment and skills.

So it's torture for many PvE player having to waste time in PvP zones to get VR16 gear... why should we learn how to do PvP if we do not want to play PvP? Why? What for?

Live and let live. Simply accept that there are people who do not like PvP and try to avoid it. It is their damn good right and their free time and not anyone else's.

I can say for myself - if they offer this new DLC as a PvE version, I would buy it despite the fact that I am still paying my sub (which I consider to cancel until we get new PvE only content). It also probably would have far less issues with lags and latency.

My 2cents

ElfFromSpace

Well after a week's playing I have to say.. i've gotten A LOT better at staying alive. Using more shields and invisibility pots. I've now been netting 500-1000 TV stones in a session of a 1-3 hours of play, plus a small pile of decon gear that can't be stolen.

However I still find that the mechanic discourages some amount of teamwork. I am the healer. If someone in my party is struggling in the back, I try to hang back a bit and heal til they can catch up. I often find myself having to abandon my teammates to preserve myself ;( I don't like what that does to people. In a decent group, the good players can stay alive easily, but I feel bad that we tend to sacrifice the players who are either less experienced, or who are more prone to standing their ground, and the rest of us often escape while they are killed.

I also have found that initially it's frustrating getting off the ground, but that with experience people get a lot more confident carrying a lot more stones.

I'd like to revise the proposal to

1-100 stones: 50% loss
100-3000 stones: 65% loss
3000+ 80% loss

We also NEED buffer zones. Even if (hopefully when) they fix the insane load screens there needs to be a small buffer at the top and bottom of the sewer entrances, just like there is at the doors in and out of each district. The same sort of buffer is needed in a small circle around the entrances to IC so that players cannot stand there and AEO spam making it impossible for players to sneak into the city without a small group to fight the gankers. That is just plain poor spirited griefing.

sekou_trayvond

I disagree with OP.

I'm not a good PvPer but I'm learning and getting better. The update has noticeasbly helped my characters.

Be that as it may, nothing in ESO has approached the thrilling nature of running the sewers and feeling the weight of each and every Tel Var stone as u venture further inward, all the while hoping to not get separated from your group and keeping your head on a swivel for baddies. (Jeepers. What a long sentence.)

Example: yesterday I was north of 1000 stones and running with a small zerg. In attempting to navigate our way back we were set upon by AD who lured a bunch of us into their Banner Man battle. I held my ground in the hallway only to see 2-3 AD hare off from that battle and beeline for me. My anxiety increased exponentially has I hit Rapids and tried to find safety back in a previous room. A red ring from the Banner Man befalls me and now I'm easy pickings. My health is under half, I'm alternating between Rally and Jabs but to no real avail- I see my health cascade toward single digits. I resign myself to being a big coup for a cursed AD. But then, something happens.

A potion or something got my health back up to a modest level but better, the AD retreated. (Tu'Whacca found favor upon me, I suppose.)

So now I'm alone. Or so I think. In saunters Banner Man having, apparently throttled all comers in the other room. I crouch. I crouch like I've never crouched before. I want to hide inside the wall- not just in the corner.

And then I remember I have safety scroll. Duh! I wait out Banner Man. He moves on. Relieved, I pop my scroll. I turn into a beacon that screams "I haz the stones!". I sweat some more. And curse. I wait. A bloody hoarvor respawns right next to me! No! I will not be done in by a damn tick! I yell for the port to finish. Fade...

Back at base! My stash of stones intact and a gaming moment sealed.

TL; DR Just play. It's fun.

Derra

Why is there no 1000000 stones aquired on one character achievement

SeptimusDova

I saw nothing wrong with my suggestion of a 200 percent stone loss compounded with a 24.5 percent daily late fee until the negative balance was repaid.

If debt is security then surely that would make the IC safe.

jkemmery

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

The access system worked in DAOC and it will work here if people would stop thinking they know better and you will be able to get your stones more easily.

What is DAOC and how does your proposed access system work?

I've yet to see a single responds explaining how the current system is better balanced aside from the obvious, greed based, "I want it all" logic. The staff said they wanted players to fear dying.. do they think players would voluntarily give up even 30% of their stones willingly? Currently players are LESS afraid of dying, in fact the suiciding on NPCs is going rampant as the best way to keep your stones.

I lose respect for players who will only pick on the ones weaker than themselves and are afraid of the challenge that they'd only get a really big haul of stones by actually fighting others of the top players. Is it REALLY necessary for some players to be able to get 9000 stones an hour (or did that take a few hours) while others get 100? If you can't bring in 90 times as much as other players it's not broken enough? If you're that good, even with the change you'll easily pull down 5-10 times the stones of less experienced players.

DAoC (Dark Age of Camelot) is an older game that is eerily similar to this in a ton of ways.
In that game the equivalent of Imperial City was called Darkness Falls

In that game access was obtained by owning x amounts of keeps in the Frontier which is comparable to Cyrodil.

The reason they are eerily similar is because they were both created by Matt Firor.