Wrecking Blow Spammers

EnOeZ

Soris wrote: »

WB spam is cheesy atm. Sure you can cancel it by moving left and right but keep in mind, in update 6, its cast time was reduced by .5 seconds and they made it cannot be interrupted by any other action other than CC.
So it became an easy mode kill button in my eyes. Before that, it was a solid skill, required high amount of situational awareness and such things to successfully hitting your opponent. It was like risk and reward. But not anymore.

Sorry, but in live (1.6.x) it's a 1sec cast.
Used to be 0.5 (not 100%sure) then 0.8 then 1sec as it was at launch.

Aimelin

EnOeZ wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

WB spam is cheesy atm. Sure you can cancel it by moving left and right but keep in mind, in update 6, its cast time was reduced by .5 seconds and they made it cannot be interrupted by any other action other than CC.
So it became an easy mode kill button in my eyes. Before that, it was a solid skill, required high amount of situational awareness and such things to successfully hitting your opponent. It was like risk and reward. But not anymore.

Sorry, but in live (1.6.x) it's a 1sec cast.
Used to be 0.5 (not 100%sure) then 0.8 then 1sec as it was at launch.

it used to be longer, not shorter.

also to those people saying it's not as easy to land, please, for a MELEE skill it has a 7m range ....

Ishammael

Darnathian wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

Even with 5k weapon damage using Unstable Flame is a joke because one damage shield and the damage-over-time is completely nullified.

This isn't true now. The DK fire DoTs are ticking on shields. Unstable Flame is now a MONSTER -- with ~2.3k Weapon damage, the tooltip is nearly 13k. Unstable + Fossilize --> WB is really nice now.

What? Dots on shields now. That is a nice change

I didn't do anything exhaustive. But engulfing and burning are ticking for sure.

Maulkin

Darnathian wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

Even with 5k weapon damage using Unstable Flame is a joke because one damage shield and the damage-over-time is completely nullified.

This isn't true now. The DK fire DoTs are ticking on shields. Unstable Flame is now a MONSTER -- with ~2.3k Weapon damage, the tooltip is nearly 13k. Unstable + Fossilize --> WB is really nice now.

What? Dots on shields now. That is a nice change

Some DoTs always worked on shields. Unstable Flame is one of them.

Edit: I think only Templar DoT has a problem. And bleeds ofc, they are designed to not work on shields.

Joy_Division

Secondary DoTs (for ex. Destructive touch) do not apply on damage shields. DoTs that are just dots, such as unstable flame, do.

Wrecking Blow is a nightmare for magicka DKs and templars because they don't not have the stamina pool to block / dodge these or can simply streak out of the way. It's nice for yous stamina folks to keep saying WB is fine, and perhaps it is for you since your attribute distributions will always allow you to defend against it. That this skill cannot be interrupted is a joke and when 2.1 comes out and makes everyone's defense costs prohibitive, perhaps more people will appreciate this.

Ezareth

Joy_Division wrote: »

Secondary DoTs (for ex. Destructive touch) do not apply on damage shields. DoTs that are just dots, such as unstable flame, do.

Wrecking Blow is a nightmare for magicka DKs and templars because they don't not have the stamina pool to block / dodge these or can simply streak out of the way. It's nice for yous stamina folks to keep saying WB is fine, and perhaps it is for you since your attribute distributions will always allow you to defend against it. That this skill cannot be interrupted is a joke and when 2.1 comes out and makes everyone's defense costs prohibitive, perhaps more people will appreciate this.

Don't blame Wrecking blow, Blame the poor decision to make all the natural defenses to it cost prohibitive.

Tdroid

Joy_Division wrote: »

Secondary DoTs (for ex. Destructive touch) do not apply on damage shields. DoTs that are just dots, such as unstable flame, do.

Wrecking Blow is a nightmare for magicka DKs and templars because they don't not have the stamina pool to block / dodge these or can simply streak out of the way. It's nice for yous stamina folks to keep saying WB is fine, and perhaps it is for you since your attribute distributions will always allow you to defend against it. That this skill cannot be interrupted is a joke and when 2.1 comes out and makes everyone's defense costs prohibitive, perhaps more people will appreciate this.

Personally, with the nerfs to stamina in general in Update 7, to the point where it might have become unviable in general, having 1 reliable skill to use against magicka builds(or at least some) is hardly unfair.

And, honestly, I would like an Uppercut morph(say, switching out the, as far as I can tell, never-used Dizzying Swing) with an instant-cast version that does comparable damage to Surprise Attack, but without Empower or Maim.

EnOeZ

Aimelin wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

WB spam is cheesy atm. Sure you can cancel it by moving left and right but keep in mind, in update 6, its cast time was reduced by .5 seconds and they made it cannot be interrupted by any other action other than CC.
So it became an easy mode kill button in my eyes. Before that, it was a solid skill, required high amount of situational awareness and such things to successfully hitting your opponent. It was like risk and reward. But not anymore.

Sorry, but in live (1.6.x) it's a 1sec cast.
Used to be 0.5 (not 100%sure) then 0.8 then 1sec as it was at launch.

it used to be longer, not shorter.

also to those people saying it's not as easy to land, please, for a MELEE skill it has a 7m range ....

It is not easy to land, but if you have difficulties avoiding it, you are just biased. Perhaps you are always fleeing, which is in fact best case scenario for the WB user:

• time your roll dodge
• get behind the caster
• instant stun/fear him...
• outrun him
• have great combat awareness
• etc...

Any one of us that uses it hardly ever get fully hit by wrecking blow, if we cannot avoid it because of root or being outnumbered we just block if stamina allows.

Ahzek

Sooo can anyone explain to me why WB is the much more dominant morph for uppercut ?
I found dizzying swig to be quite useful on PTS so far.
For stam Dks I can understand the need to WB -> leap, but for other classes I just dont see the benefit.

Simply by weaving light attacks with Dizzying Swing I pretty much get the same damage as unweaved WBs, but the 15% damage dealt debuff comes in handy on top. Especially with the berfed healing/damage from 1.7 the damage reduction seems so much more important, since most battles are decided wether or not you can consistently outheal your opponents damage, while applying pressure yourself.

Sarousse

1 - 1h + Shield can apply the same -15% debuff.

2 - Dizzying Swimg is good for duels. Unfortunately, it's not a duel game. When acting as a dps in a team, you NEED the +20% damage buff.

Soris

EnOeZ wrote: »

Aimelin wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

WB spam is cheesy atm. Sure you can cancel it by moving left and right but keep in mind, in update 6, its cast time was reduced by .5 seconds and they made it cannot be interrupted by any other action other than CC.
So it became an easy mode kill button in my eyes. Before that, it was a solid skill, required high amount of situational awareness and such things to successfully hitting your opponent. It was like risk and reward. But not anymore.

Sorry, but in live (1.6.x) it's a 1sec cast.
Used to be 0.5 (not 100%sure) then 0.8 then 1sec as it was at launch.

it used to be longer, not shorter.

also to those people saying it's not as easy to land, please, for a MELEE skill it has a 7m range ....

It is not easy to land, but if you have difficulties avoiding it, you are just biased. Perhaps you are always fleeing, which is in fact best case scenario for the WB user:

• time your roll dodge
• get behind the caster
• instant stun/fear him...
• outrun him
• have great combat awareness
• etc...

Any one of us that uses it hardly ever get fully hit by wrecking blow, if we cannot avoid it because of root or being outnumbered we just block if stamina allows.

Well I use WB since like 1.4. It isn't that hard to hit your opponent. You just simply move the opposite direction from your opponent, in example, running in circles around him, and it hits 100% of time. It is definitely not hard at all.
The only time I had difficulties to landing it, is when my opponent is moving TOWARDS me. It is extremely risky move but good counter, though not many do that.
And it used to be longer cast, not shorter.

From my point of view, if you reduce cast time and remove chance to interrupt from a nuke, then it becomes easy mode kill button. No one(or very small group of ppl) has used WB back then 1.5/1.4. It used to be high risk/high reward skill and you had to train for it to become successful with it. Since it has 8 meter range, you had to know how far you should stay from your opponent to eliminate the bash rupt and any unmitigated inc damage and things like that..
But it wasn't bad at all, it was in fact the best nuke in game with some risk factor.

Then 1.6 came into live, they removed the interrupt and reduced cast time and made it it buffs itself through empower WITHOUT altering the damage, everyone suddenly used it and became masters of it in one day.
Just like snipe buff and ulti generation nerfs, it is good example of Zeni babysitting skilless, one button spam play.

I still use it and I love it though. But I can't deny, it is indeed ezy mode one button spam and requires little to no skill. All the myth about how hard to land it, is just a lie if you know what to do.

Farorin

It's not overpowered, it is simply one of the more viable damaging moves.

I personally use it only sometimes though.

Sarousse

If Zenimax gave to 2h and dual wield an instant and efficient damage melee skill (and even on class stamina morph skills), you wouldn't see that much Wrecking Blow spammers. It's the only efficient dps melee skill (not counting 1h+board skills).

Blame them.

Zsymon

It's incredibly easy to block it, and with the low PvP damage, it's hardly a problem anymore.

The reason stamina builds use it all the time is because they have no more defensive options at all, their only option is to spam their strongest skill and hope they don't die before their target.

More people would use the Dizzying Swing morph if they knew the Empower buff doesn't increase the actual damage of the next attack by 20%, only your weapon/spell damage. The actual damage increase is around 5-6% on the next attack. Giving your target a -15% actual damage debuff sounds quite good compared to that, that's like lowering their weapon/spell damage by 30-35%.

xylena

the roll dodge nerf has made it considerably easier to land wrecking blows

and yeah it's baffling that the 1h/s line has the next best spammable dps (puncture and low slash) for pvp next to the wrecking blow...

Armitas

Ahzek wrote: »

Sooo can anyone explain to me why WB is the much more dominant morph for uppercut ?

@Ahzek Wrecking blow gives you empower, and due to the 2hander passive a Heavy Attack will buff your next attack by 10%. When you weave WB with Heavy attack you buff each attack continually by 20% and 10%. You can also charge your heavy attack underneath the WB channel. At least in 1.6 you could rely on dodge and nirn for defense so the maim wasn't needed that much.

Zsymon

Armitas wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Sooo can anyone explain to me why WB is the much more dominant morph for uppercut ?

@Ahzek Wrecking blow gives you empower, and due to the 2hander passive a Heavy Attack will buff your next attack by 10%. When you weave WB with Heavy attack you buff each attack continually by 20% and 10%. You can also charge your heavy attack underneath the WB channel. At least in 1.6 you could rely on dodge and nirn for defense so the maim wasn't needed that much.

Like I said, the Empower buff from Wrecking Blow does NOT increase your next attack by 20%, only your weapon power. Which means the actual damage increase is around 6%.

Ahzek

@Armitas I know about the Empower buff, as well as the "Follow up" passive, however I dont see how you charge your heavy attack during the WB.
My thought process was that when using WB you dont weave at all, since you would loose the empower buff on the light/medium attacks. Thus the DPS loss between a spammed WB and an anim cancelled DS would be quite minor.

Ahzek

@Zysmon WB grants you "empower" and that increases all damage done by the next attack by 20%. It works just like entropy in that regard.

Tdroid

Zsymon wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Sooo can anyone explain to me why WB is the much more dominant morph for uppercut ?

@Ahzek Wrecking blow gives you empower, and due to the 2hander passive a Heavy Attack will buff your next attack by 10%. When you weave WB with Heavy attack you buff each attack continually by 20% and 10%. You can also charge your heavy attack underneath the WB channel. At least in 1.6 you could rely on dodge and nirn for defense so the maim wasn't needed that much.

Like I said, the Empower buff from Wrecking Blow does NOT increase your next attack by 20%, only your weapon power. Which means the actual damage increase is around 6%.

My theory on why it is more common in general is that very few characters are purely PvP and most who use Wrecking Blow play the role of a Stamina DPS in PvE. Having 6% more damage in PvE is generally worth it, since you play in groups and there is usually someone else to inflict maim. And since it is expensive to constantly reassign morphs, it is easier to just stick with Wrecking Blow.

Armitas

Ahzek wrote: »

@Armitas I know about the Empower buff, as well as the "Follow up" passive, however I dont see how you charge your heavy attack during the WB.
My thought process was that when using WB you dont weave at all, since you would loose the empower buff on the light/medium attacks. Thus the DPS loss between a spammed WB and an anim cancelled DS would be quite minor.

It works a lot like rapid strikes and heavy attack. If you pop rapid strikes, you can charge up a Full heavy attack underneath it, invisibly. The same thing happens with WB only it's a bit more tricky. Heavy, 2 handed attacks do a lot of damage, especially if you are a DK using molten armaments. The heavy attack would be 41% more heavy attack damage, 20% Empowered from WB and execute damage if in execute range. If the first WB hit hard enough you might be in execute range. Sergeant Set will take that even higher.

Ezareth

Zsymon wrote: »

It's incredibly easy to block it, and with the low PvP damage, it's hardly a problem anymore.

The reason stamina builds use it all the time is because they have no more defensive options at all, their only option is to spam their strongest skill and hope they don't die before their target.

More people would use the Dizzying Swing morph if they knew the Empower buff doesn't increase the actual damage of the next attack by 20%, only your weapon/spell damage. The actual damage increase is around 5-6% on the next attack. Giving your target a -15% actual damage debuff sounds quite good compared to that, that's like lowering their weapon/spell damage by 30-35%.

Try blocking wrecking blows in IC and see how that works for you. I'll wrecking blow spam my target all day long when he's got zero stam regen and is still taking 40% of the damage.

I also have my target maimed from either shadow image or Deep slash depending on how I'm runing in 2.1. Deep slash is an AoE Maim (and slow) so is far more useful in that regard.

The power of Wrecking Blow is in the CC effect and the high base damage. Whether you choose dizzy or wrecking doesn't really matter since both are extremely strong.

Soris

Armitas wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Sooo can anyone explain to me why WB is the much more dominant morph for uppercut ?

in 1.6 you could rely on dodge and nirn for defense so the maim wasn't needed that much.

I think this is the main reason why majority prefers WB over DS. In 1.6, things happen extremely quick as the meta based on burst or get brusted, and defence is based on being evasive rather than face tanking. So 15% decreased dmg is redundant vs 20% increased dmg from all sources for the next hit.

Zsymon

Ahzek wrote: »

@Zysmon WB grants you "empower" and that increases all damage done by the next attack by 20%. It works just like entropy in that regard.

Empower doesn't increase all damage done by the next attack by 20%, the tooltip is wrong. It increases weapon/spell damage by 20% for the next attack, which means the actual damage increase is about 6%. All skills that give the Empower buff, including Entropy with Might of the Guild, work that way.

Zsymon

Ezareth wrote: »

Try blocking wrecking blows in IC and see how that works for you. I'll wrecking blow spam my target all day long when he's got zero stam regen and is still taking 40% of the damage.

I also have my target maimed from either shadow image or Deep slash depending on how I'm runing in 2.1. Deep slash is an AoE Maim (and slow) so is far more useful in that regard.

The power of Wrecking Blow is in the CC effect and the high base damage. Whether you choose dizzy or wrecking doesn't really matter since both are extremely strong.

Yeah, but if you nerf Uppercut, no one will ever use 2H for anything except as a buff bar with Rally. Stamina builds need improvements in this patch, they are too weak, not more nerfs. Uppercut got buffed back then for a reason, it was simply far too weak, and now stamina builds got sent back majorly.

Ezareth

Zsymon wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

@Zysmon WB grants you "empower" and that increases all damage done by the next attack by 20%. It works just like entropy in that regard.

Empower doesn't increase all damage done by the next attack by 20%, the tooltip is wrong. It increases weapon/spell damage by 20% for the next attack, which means the actual damage increase is about 6%. All skills that give the Empower buff, including Entropy with Might of the Guild, work that way.

Unless it was changed from my recollection Might of the guild work exactly that way.

I would proc crystal fragments and then cast magelight and my tooltip on my base crystal frags was increased by a total of 40%. Empower is supposed to provide +20% damage not weapon power.

I haven't tested wrecking blow yet to determine if it provides empower or not.

Zsymon wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Try blocking wrecking blows in IC and see how that works for you. I'll wrecking blow spam my target all day long when he's got zero stam regen and is still taking 40% of the damage.

I also have my target maimed from either shadow image or Deep slash depending on how I'm runing in 2.1. Deep slash is an AoE Maim (and slow) so is far more useful in that regard.

The power of Wrecking Blow is in the CC effect and the high base damage. Whether you choose dizzy or wrecking doesn't really matter since both are extremely strong.

Yeah, but if you nerf Uppercut, no one will ever use 2H for anything except as a buff bar with Rally. Stamina builds need improvements in this patch, they are too weak, not more nerfs. Uppercut got buffed back then for a reason, it was simply far too weak, and now stamina builds got sent back majorly.

I don't think uppercut needs nerfed, but with the current design of the game today it is the strongest melee attack in the game that I know of. When everyone is just mashing their highest damage ability GCDs become the determining factor so you want to use the largest damage ability you can every second.

Septimus_Magna

Alcast wrote: »

Stamina Sorc= Wblow
Stamina DK = Wblow/Heavy Attack
Stamina NB = Surprise Attack
Stamina Temp= Jabs

Magicka Sorc = Force Pulse
Magicka DK = Whip
Magicka NB = Concealed Weapon
Magicka Temp = Jbeam


Every class spams 1 ability, because it does the most damage. And DoTs are 100% useless because they cannot be applied to shields or block, that is why nobody uses them, I dont really get it why ZOS doesnt let DoTs being applied to Shields, but w/e

Lol, when did weapon skills become sorc skills?

Sorcs dont have an attack that can be spammed like other classes have. Thats why sorcs will be bad pve dps because sorcs mainly need to rely on weapon skills without great passives to buff them. If one class should have an instant damage ability it should be the sorcerer/mage/caster type but for some reason this isnt the case. Not the tank or the healer type, the ranged caster type should have a ranged damage ability.

The first lighting skill of sorcs should be a decent instant ranged damage ability, thats what you would expect, not a crappy execute that is useless 95% of the time.