Wrecking Blow Spammers

actosh · August 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I was in the PTS the other day and a DK purposely WB'd me from stealth into the path of a mobs shield charge. Needless to say it was insta-death. I thought I'd been one shot at first lol, it actually hit me for nearly 10k but the mobs attack was over 18k, ouch.

Well played by the dk ^^

Ishammael · August 2015

Teiji wrote: »

Even with 5k weapon damage using Unstable Flame is a joke because one damage shield and the damage-over-time is completely nullified.

This isn't true now. The DK fire DoTs are ticking on shields. Unstable Flame is now a MONSTER -- with ~2.3k Weapon damage, the tooltip is nearly 13k. Unstable + Fossilize --> WB is really nice now.

WillhelmBlack · August 2015

actosh wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I was in the PTS the other day and a DK purposely WB'd me from stealth into the path of a mobs shield charge. Needless to say it was insta-death. I thought I'd been one shot at first lol, it actually hit me for nearly 10k but the mobs attack was over 18k, ouch.

Well played by the dk ^^

Yeah it was, no spam involved.

actosh · August 2015

Must have been funny to watch. I just picture it ^^

Kronuxx · August 2015

Mystikkal wrote: »

I know from a Stam DK's perspective it's used a lot because it's the only burst we have.. what else would we do, use burning breath to burst them down? The honest truth is that it's far from OP if you are a vet and are playing vets. If you are playing good ppl, or are outnumbered, it makes you a sitting target to get focused. Prob not as extremely in pts but on live, you can insta die trying to get a wrecking blow off. Plus you can't block while casting it, nor can you animation cancel it very quickly. And while ppl like to say it takes no skill, it's actually one of the harder skills to land as you need to keep the right distance and los. It's far from op

^ Exactly what this guy said. It is actually a very difficult move to land. Especially if you play against competent players who don't stay in your line of sight. I can't tell you have frustrating it is to use Wrecking Blow when you try to cast it, and all the player has to do is move right through you (since there is no such as player collision) or move to the right or left of me, and suddenly the wrecking blow cast fails. And because it's cast time is long, when a wrecking blow casts, that's about 2 secs of no dps, as in no damage being put out by you. That's huge in a fight, especially when outnumbered, which is the majority of the time in realm pvp. Wrecking Blow is more of a "pull out of my sleeve trick". It's best done when the enemy player isn't paying attention to you, or cast it unexepectedly, such as right after a gap closer.

Kronuxx · August 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

WB has been a problem since U6 a few months ago and needs to be fixed. BEfore any one says "its not spammable and not OP and bla bla bla" it's it spammable just like crystal frags and WB is OP but not cause it hits like a truck it's suppost to that it's job it's OP cause it is spammable and were 2 or 3 hits from it completely drains your stamina either from breaking free from the knock back or from blocking cause one WB hit while blocking drains a quarter of it.

WB needs to not be nerfed but toned down to were it isn't the spammable power house it is now like crystal frags.

Not possible on PTS. No regen when blocking, and a DK does not have the best stamina regen. Although might be possible with a NB to block and cast, but since PTS, stamina becomes such a precious resource, especially with increased costs of dodge rolling, that it's not quite the smartest thing to block and cast anymore in PVP. Especially because fights are so drawn out due to damage reduction from Battle Spirit. The PvP fight now ultimately comes down to "who has the most resources at the end to finish the other off", or who makes the most mistakes.

Docmandu wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

I know from a Stam DK's perspective it's used a lot because it's the only burst we have.. what else would we do, use burning breath to burst them down?

I recall a not so long ago stream where somebody had to bring out the OP Magicka NB to just barely be able to beat a perma blocking DK that hit like a truck on PTS (he couldn't do it with the magicka templar and magicka sorc). Damage + Defense, all in 1 nice package.

People seem to forget that once you break free of a move, you have CC immunity for about 5 secs. Meaning you will not get knocked back on the ground if they cast it right away again. If you can't see WB from a mile away, then it really is your fault. It's cast time is extremely slow. And no you don't need to block or dodge roll out of the way to avoid getting hit. You do realize there is no player collision in this game right? You have three options actually. A) Move through the player, WB casting cannot be performed on a player behind you or within you. B ) Move to the very right of the player or C) Move to the very left and keep your distance. The player who uses nothing but WB will be vunerable quite often as their casting will be canceled quite often when it cannot land.

Dracane · August 2015

I think, Wrecking blow should stay as it is.
It makes the "caster" vulnerable and it's avoidable. It's not that it's not counterable.
It's extremely strong and dangerous, but manageable in most cases.

Someone who stops permablocking and chooses this somewhat risky playstyle should be rewarded.
It's one of the few good abilties for stamina DKs and many other stamina specs

CidxLucy · August 2015

slow animation lol you can just stop thr animation but use the skill sadly.

BalgusFlinn · August 2015

Mystikkal wrote: »

I know from a Stam DK's perspective it's used a lot because it's the only burst we have.. what else would we do, use burning breath to burst them down? The honest truth is that it's far from OP if you are a vet and are playing vets. If you are playing good ppl, or are outnumbered, it makes you a sitting target to get focused. Prob not as extremely in pts but on live, you can insta die trying to get a wrecking blow off. Plus you can't block while casting it, nor can you animation cancel it very quickly. And while ppl like to say it takes no skill, it's actually one of the harder skills to land as you need to keep the right distance and los. It's far from op

+1 on this stam. dk has few options for good burst.. Only time i land a wb is outta stealth or in groups vs 1.

Erock25 · August 2015

BalgusFlinn wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

I know from a Stam DK's perspective it's used a lot because it's the only burst we have.. what else would we do, use burning breath to burst them down? The honest truth is that it's far from OP if you are a vet and are playing vets. If you are playing good ppl, or are outnumbered, it makes you a sitting target to get focused. Prob not as extremely in pts but on live, you can insta die trying to get a wrecking blow off. Plus you can't block while casting it, nor can you animation cancel it very quickly. And while ppl like to say it takes no skill, it's actually one of the harder skills to land as you need to keep the right distance and los. It's far from op

+1 on this stam. dk has few options for good burst.. Only time i land a wb is outta stealth or in groups vs 1.

While it isn't the easiest ability to land, admitting that you've never landed WB in a 1vs1 really makes me want to discount your opinion on the skill.

HeroOfNone · August 2015

Wrecking blow spam has been the meta since around 1.6, when it's damage boost affected itself. This isn't recent.

As a stamina DK I resist uding this meta excessively, especially in PTS where it gets lagged at times and the hit lands while I'm in the middle of another attack. I use it because unlike something like a nightblade, I have no other large direct damaging abilities that are based on my weapon damage and stamina in my class linw. I only have ultimates and two DOTS that work off weapon damage and stamina, and those are typically clensed.

Since I also don't want the empower to tick off a minor DOT though, a wrecking blow is best used with another wrecking blow with high damage or an execute, high damage at low health.

Kobaal · August 2015

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Wrecking blow spam has been the meta since around 1.6, when it's damage boost affected itself. This isn't recent.

As a stamina DK I resist uding this meta excessively, especially in PTS where it gets lagged at times and the hit lands while I'm in the middle of another attack. I use it because unlike something like a nightblade, I have no other large direct damaging abilities that are based on my weapon damage and stamina in my class linw. I only have ultimates and two DOTS that work off weapon damage and stamina, and those are typically clensed.

Since I also don't want the empower to tick off a minor DOT though, a wrecking blow is best used with another wrecking blow with high damage or an execute, high damage at low health.

Exactly. This has been on live for a while now. Well said.

Teridaxus · August 2015

Kronuxx wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

I know from a Stam DK's perspective it's used a lot because it's the only burst we have.. what else would we do, use burning breath to burst them down? The honest truth is that it's far from OP if you are a vet and are playing vets. If you are playing good ppl, or are outnumbered, it makes you a sitting target to get focused. Prob not as extremely in pts but on live, you can insta die trying to get a wrecking blow off. Plus you can't block while casting it, nor can you animation cancel it very quickly. And while ppl like to say it takes no skill, it's actually one of the harder skills to land as you need to keep the right distance and los. It's far from op

^ Exactly what this guy said. It is actually a very difficult move to land. Especially if you play against competent players who don't stay in your line of sight. I can't tell you have frustrating it is to use Wrecking Blow when you try to cast it, and all the player has to do is move right through you (since there is no such as player collision) or move to the right or left of me, and suddenly the wrecking blow cast fails. And because it's cast time is long, when a wrecking blow casts, that's about 2 secs of no dps, as in no damage being put out by you. That's huge in a fight, especially when outnumbered, which is the majority of the time in realm pvp. Wrecking Blow is more of a "pull out of my sleeve trick". It's best done when the enemy player isn't paying attention to you, or cast it unexepectedly, such as right after a gap closer.

This and with the nerf of ALL damage in 2.1, dots are even weaker and at this point even health regen outheals it.

ThyIronFist · August 2015

I'm a stamina DK that uses wrecking blow, I use it, but don't spam it excessively. There are 9 other skills you can put on your bar aside from just using Wrecking Blow and I always laugh when people do nothing but spam WB on me. It's like... you have other skills that you can use instead of just spamming 1 ability...

But WB spam can get a bit ridiculous from time to time, either add diminishing returns or something else. A stamina version of Lava whip would be nice.

Ishammael wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

Even with 5k weapon damage using Unstable Flame is a joke because one damage shield and the damage-over-time is completely nullified.

This isn't true now. The DK fire DoTs are ticking on shields. Unstable Flame is now a MONSTER -- with ~2.3k Weapon damage, the tooltip is nearly 13k. Unstable + Fossilize --> WB is really nice now.

Wrong. With 3.1k weapon damage and around 23-24k stamina the tooltip DoT doesn't even reach 10k. So unless you go full glass-cannon with 3.2k+ weapon damage and 30000+ stamina you'll be lucky to get it just over 10k. Sure, DoTs can tick on shields, but it's barely noticeable.

DK DoTs need a serious buff as they can be shielded, outhealed, purged, cloaked, blocked and dodged. On the PTS DK DoTs tick so little that if you use Purple quality regen drinks your health regen will probably outheal the damage...

Ishammael · August 2015

ThyIronFist wrote: »

I'm a stamina DK that uses wrecking blow, I use it, but don't spam it excessively. There are 9 other skills you can put on your bar aside from just using Wrecking Blow and I always laugh when people do nothing but spam WB on me. It's like... you have other skills that you can use instead of just spamming 1 ability...

But WB spam can get a bit ridiculous from time to time, either add diminishing returns or something else. A stamina version of Lava whip would be nice.

Ishammael wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

Even with 5k weapon damage using Unstable Flame is a joke because one damage shield and the damage-over-time is completely nullified.

This isn't true now. The DK fire DoTs are ticking on shields. Unstable Flame is now a MONSTER -- with ~2.3k Weapon damage, the tooltip is nearly 13k. Unstable + Fossilize --> WB is really nice now.

Wrong. With 3.1k weapon damage and around 23-24k stamina the tooltip DoT doesn't even reach 10k. So unless you go full glass-cannon with 3.2k+ weapon damage and 30000+ stamina you'll be lucky to get it just over 10k. Sure, DoTs can tick on shields, but it's barely noticeable.

DK DoTs need a serious buff as they can be shielded, outhealed, purged, cloaked, blocked and dodged. On the PTS DK DoTs tick so little that if you use Purple quality regen drinks your health regen will probably outheal the damage...

I just checked this. My test DK had approx 30k stam and 2.3k weapon dmg. The initial hit plus dot toalled about 13k. Apologies for not providing screenshot.

xylena · August 2015

stamina molten whip would allow stam dks to spec into fire dmg, not just physical dmg, increasing build diversity and decreasing reliance on WB spam... the molten whip dmg buff to other ardent flame abilities would also increase the viability of stam dk fire dots in both pvp and pve dps where they are lacking

flame lash should always stay magicka... magicka dk already has best pve dps and would be fine without molten

cmabouaf · August 2015

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

I been watching a lot of twitch streams of folks on the PTS, so it seems like the new meta is Wrecking Blow, shows up on almost all the death recap's, so my question since large amounts of people are gravitating to it, what's broke about it or is it just in an over powered state ? my experience with mmo's is when lots of folks start using it there is something up with it, is this something ZOS is looking at, ?

I think most of 2h abilities are spammable. PTS i see crit rush spams and wb spams, i personally only use 2h for the heal, but when i do wb in stealth it hits for 14k, and when i do it out of stealth crit, it hits for 12k with empower. I think zeni should make a work around so 2h abilities arent as viable just being spammed.

Dracane · August 2015

I don't think 2 handed abilities really need any nerfs or changes.
I'm tired of this 'nerf this to make other things more appealing' politic, we had to endure this for too long.
Rather buff other skill trees to be as effective as 2 handed.

Nerfing something just makes it less appealing and nobody will use it anymore.

Xeniph · August 2015

xylena wrote: »

stamina molten whip would allow stam dks to spec into fire dmg, not just physical dmg, increasing build diversity and decreasing reliance on WB spam... the molten whip dmg buff to other ardent flame abilities would also increase the viability of stam dk fire dots in both pvp and pve dps where they are lacking

flame lash should always stay magicka... magicka dk already has best pve dps and would be fine without molten

That would not provide build diversity at all. For proof just take a look at how many NB's spam wrecking blow over SA. The answer to that is very few. That would just shift stamina dks from WB to whip, since the class passives would synergize better with it.

Ezareth · August 2015

Xeniph wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

stamina molten whip would allow stam dks to spec into fire dmg, not just physical dmg, increasing build diversity and decreasing reliance on WB spam... the molten whip dmg buff to other ardent flame abilities would also increase the viability of stam dk fire dots in both pvp and pve dps where they are lacking

flame lash should always stay magicka... magicka dk already has best pve dps and would be fine without molten

That would not provide build diversity at all. For proof just take a look at how many NB's spam wrecking blow over SA. The answer to that is very few. That would just shift stamina dks from WB to whip, since the class passives would synergize better with it.

Ehh...SA NBs in 2.1 are in for a surpise. In a game where no one blocks or dodge Rolls more than once WB reigns supreme.

Kronuxx · August 2015

Xeniph wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

stamina molten whip would allow stam dks to spec into fire dmg, not just physical dmg, increasing build diversity and decreasing reliance on WB spam... the molten whip dmg buff to other ardent flame abilities would also increase the viability of stam dk fire dots in both pvp and pve dps where they are lacking

flame lash should always stay magicka... magicka dk already has best pve dps and would be fine without molten

That would not provide build diversity at all. For proof just take a look at how many NB's spam wrecking blow over SA. The answer to that is very few. That would just shift stamina dks from WB to whip, since the class passives would synergize better with it.

Actually it would build class diversity. Two different options to output single target dps, instead of just one as a stamina dk...two vs one, I think I'd rather have two options.

Kupoking · August 2015

Give all classes BITING JABS

Huggalump · August 2015

BalgusFlinn wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

I know from a Stam DK's perspective it's used a lot because it's the only burst we have.. what else would we do, use burning breath to burst them down? The honest truth is that it's far from OP if you are a vet and are playing vets. If you are playing good ppl, or are outnumbered, it makes you a sitting target to get focused. Prob not as extremely in pts but on live, you can insta die trying to get a wrecking blow off. Plus you can't block while casting it, nor can you animation cancel it very quickly. And while ppl like to say it takes no skill, it's actually one of the harder skills to land as you need to keep the right distance and los. It's far from op

+1 on this stam. dk has few options for good burst..

And stam sorcs have only one ^_^

....

Alcast · August 2015

Stamina Sorc= Wblow
Stamina DK = Wblow/Heavy Attack
Stamina NB = Surprise Attack
Stamina Temp= Jabs

Magicka Sorc = Force Pulse
Magicka DK = Whip
Magicka NB = Concealed Weapon
Magicka Temp = Jbeam

Every class spams 1 ability, because it does the most damage. And DoTs are 100% useless because they cannot be applied to shields or block, that is why nobody uses them, I dont really get it why ZOS doesnt let DoTs being applied to Shields, but w/e

Dracane · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Stamina Sorc= Wblow
Stamina DK = Wblow/Heavy Attack
Stamina NB = Surprise Attack
Stamina Temp= Jabs

Magicka Sorc = Force Pulse
Magicka DK = Whip
Magicka NB = Concealed Weapon
Magicka Temp = Jbeam

Every class spams 1 ability, because it does the most damage. And DoTs are 100% useless because they cannot be applied to shields, that is why nobody uses them, I dont really get it why ZOS doesnt let DoTs being applied to Shields, but w/e

Many DoTs also don't proc on blocks. They should change this first

Alcast · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Stamina Sorc= Wblow
Stamina DK = Wblow/Heavy Attack
Stamina NB = Surprise Attack
Stamina Temp= Jabs

Magicka Sorc = Force Pulse
Magicka DK = Whip
Magicka NB = Concealed Weapon
Magicka Temp = Jbeam

Every class spams 1 ability, because it does the most damage. And DoTs are 100% useless because they cannot be applied to shields, that is why nobody uses them, I dont really get it why ZOS doesnt let DoTs being applied to Shields, but w/e

Many DoTs also don't proc on blocks. They should change this first

Good point, yep.

Huggalump · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Stamina Sorc= Wblow
Stamina DK = Wblow/Heavy Attack
Stamina NB = Surprise Attack
Stamina Temp= Jabs

Magicka Sorc = Force Pulse
Magicka DK = Whip
Magicka NB = Concealed Weapon
Magicka Temp = Jbeam

Every class spams 1 ability, because it does the most damage. And DoTs are 100% useless because they cannot be applied to shields or block, that is why nobody uses them, I dont really get it why ZOS doesnt let DoTs being applied to Shields, but w/e

So the stam sorc one is one that every class has access too, but nightblades and templars have access to something better and thus choose not to use it

F7sus4 · August 2015

Winterpsy wrote: »

Wrecking blow is a solid skill pick but nowhere overpowered.

Signed with love,
Wrecking Blow user.

Darnathian · August 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

Even with 5k weapon damage using Unstable Flame is a joke because one damage shield and the damage-over-time is completely nullified.

This isn't true now. The DK fire DoTs are ticking on shields. Unstable Flame is now a MONSTER -- with ~2.3k Weapon damage, the tooltip is nearly 13k. Unstable + Fossilize --> WB is really nice now.

What? Dots on shields now. That is a nice change

Sithisvoid · August 2015

Wrecking blow is for no talent hacks.