Improve Heavy Armor.

Zsymon

When you wear heavy armor, you sacrifice all sustain for a measly 4% of extra damage resistance compared to medium armor. Those ~4% damage resistance do not make up for the massive bonuses you lose from medium and light armor, and the heavy armor passives you get instead are incredibly weak, some even completely negligible.

My suggestion is to increase the armor rating/spell resistance gained from heavy armor, by 50% per piece level, and improve the heavy armor passives, without completely changing them around.

- Constitution: Change to 10% of max magicka/stamina upon being hit, every 6 seconds.
- Juggernaut: Double the max health bonus to 14%, and add 7% physical melee damage.
- Bracing: Add a 7% damage resistance, to give some protection against high penetration builds.
- Rapid Mending: Add a 7% healing done bonus, on top of the 7% healing received bonus.

I think this would put heavy armor on par with the other armor types.

PS. Right now Constitution gives 1% of your highest stat every 4 seconds, who came up with such ridiculously tiny numbers? How is getting 1% of max stamina/magicka every 4 seconds in any way useful?

Teiji

Zsymon wrote: »

When you wear heavy armor, you sacrifice all sustain for a measly 4% of extra damage resistance compared to medium armor. Those ~4% damage resistance do not make up for the massive bonuses you lose from medium and light armor, and the heavy armor passives you get instead are incredibly weak, some even completely negligible.

My suggestion is to increase the armor rating/spell resistance gained from heavy armor, by 50% per piece level, and improve the heavy armor passives, without completely changing them around.

- Constitution: Change to 10% of max magicka/stamina upon being hit, every 6 seconds.
- Juggernaut: Double the max health bonus to 14%, and add 7% physical melee damage.
- Bracing: Add a 7% damage resistance, to give some protection against high penetration builds.
- Rapid Mending: Add a 7% healing done bonus, on top of the 7% healing received bonus.

I think this would put heavy armor on par with the other armor types.

PS. Right now Constitution gives 1% of your highest stat every 4 seconds, who came up with such ridiculously tiny numbers? How is getting 1% of max stamina/magicka every 4 seconds in any way useful?

Careful there friend, you're treading on thin ice; don't you know that heavy armor reinforces a "uninteresting, boring playstyle with low interaction." You make some really great suggestions, so many people have too it's really good but ZoS doesn't care as heavy armor is capable of doing the bare minimum for PvE group content.

Until it becomes difficult for casual players to do PvE content and pug group dungeon groups, don't expect it to change.

But hey; portable crafting stations soon, good thing they're addressing all the right issues amirite?


Nord has a flat damage resistance racial, Heavy armor needs one too. Isn't maximium damage mitigation 30% due to penetration anyway? "Oh it's 50%, it's 50%!" I hear developers saying, but is that even possible in-game instead of on a developer test server due to penetration?

Rayste

I am curious as to how the damage mitigation stacks up with the new battle spirit and penetration changes on the PTS. I have only tested light armor. Is heavy still fairly meh?

Teargrants

Rayste wrote: »

I am curious as to how the damage mitigation stacks up with the new battle spirit and penetration changes on the PTS. I have only tested light armor. Is heavy still fairly meh?

Heavy is more meh than ever before, as a magicka caster build. It's compounded by a number of issues:

1 - I cannot run sword/board on my main bar and maintain any modicum of acceptable dps as a sorc. The standard S/B sorc loadout (frags, curse, mages fury, entropy) doesn't offer enough burst to push ppl into execute anymore. The only workaround is stacking 3-4k spell dmg, this requires sacrificing regen which makes spell costs in heavy armor prohibitive.
2 - I cannot run sword/board on my off bar either. Energy Orb is no longer a viable heal because you need to hold block around the orbs while the dots heal you for it to work. Instead I have to slot resto for Rapid Regen.
3 - No stam regen while blocking removes the main reason for going heavy armor sword/board in the first place - sustained blocking to combat high burst builds.
4 - Light armor now offers TWICE as much armor/spell resist as on live, I'm finding it hard to even justify 5 light/2 heavy over just 7 light, to say nothing of 5 heavy/2 light.
5 - Molag Kena is going to become a mainstay of many builds given how OP it is now compared to pretty much any other undaunted set. As a result, the 33% increased cost of skills from using it means you WILL NOT sustain in heavy armor w/ Molag Kena. That is to say, you will be running light/medium period if you're using Molag Kena.

No direct nerfs to heavy armor, but all the changes combine to make it even more suboptimal than on live. Maybe it's supposed to be balanced out by how cool the new alliance heavy sets look? I mean, I guess?

Tannus15

Bracing, heavy armour 5 piece passive should set max damage done in 1 hit to 30% of max health.

There, I did it. Heavy armour is awesome.

Wing

Tannus15 wrote: »

Bracing, heavy armour 5 piece passive should set max damage done in 1 hit to 30% of max health.

There, I did it. Heavy armour is awesome.

hmmmmm, that's actually not to shabby of a concept. . .

aco5712

yeh heavy is quite a joke lol. Tanking in light armour is very viable next patch and a better alternative to tanking in heavy even with the blocking nerf.... prepare for your vamp DK overlords in light armour again as soon as people start hitting like 400-600 CPs lol

pvpaddict42

Teargrants wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rayste wrote: »

I am curious as to how the damage mitigation stacks up with the new battle spirit and penetration changes on the PTS. I have only tested light armor. Is heavy still fairly meh?

Heavy is more meh than ever before, as a magicka caster build. It's compounded by a number of issues:

1 - I cannot run sword/board on my main bar and maintain any modicum of acceptable dps as a sorc. The standard S/B sorc loadout (frags, curse, mages fury, entropy) doesn't offer enough burst to push ppl into execute anymore. The only workaround is stacking 3-4k spell dmg, this requires sacrificing regen which makes spell costs in heavy armor prohibitive.
2 - I cannot run sword/board on my off bar either. Energy Orb is no longer a viable heal because you need to hold block around the orbs while the dots heal you for it to work. Instead I have to slot resto for Rapid Regen.
3 - No stam regen while blocking removes the main reason for going heavy armor sword/board in the first place - sustained blocking to combat high burst builds.
4 - Light armor now offers TWICE as much armor/spell resist as on live, I'm finding it hard to even justify 5 light/2 heavy over just 7 light, to say nothing of 5 heavy/2 light.
5 - Molag Kena is going to become a mainstay of many builds given how OP it is now compared to pretty much any other undaunted set. As a result, the 33% increased cost of skills from using it means you WILL NOT sustain in heavy armor w/ Molag Kena. That is to say, you will be running light/medium period if you're using Molag Kena.

No direct nerfs to heavy armor, but all the changes combine to make it even more suboptimal than on live. Maybe it's supposed to be balanced out by how cool the new alliance heavy sets look? I mean, I guess?

They also removed the health recovery mundus which is actually another indirect nerf to heavy armor. I get in concept why the armors were tied into a resource for each but who thought that making a set revolve only around a passive resource that you can't do anything with (unlike stamina and magicka) was a good idea? Heavy armor should give flat mitigation and reduce critical hit damage for each piece. It also needs to give more stamina and magicka back as you take damage, especially with the block change. Heavy armor has always been the *** child of the armor sets but it's bringing almost nothing to the table these days with the advent of damage cap removals and higher penetration. Now with the changes to block and the mundus stone it's even worse. Bring heavy armor in line with the other sets already.

david.haypreub18_ESO

It is just stubbornness at this point. Heavy Armor, Argonians, Templars... Everyone knows these things are subpar. Everyone but ZOS it seems.

Xeniph

pvpaddict42 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Teargrants wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

I am curious as to how the damage mitigation stacks up with the new battle spirit and penetration changes on the PTS. I have only tested light armor. Is heavy still fairly meh?

Heavy is more meh than ever before, as a magicka caster build. It's compounded by a number of issues:

1 - I cannot run sword/board on my main bar and maintain any modicum of acceptable dps as a sorc. The standard S/B sorc loadout (frags, curse, mages fury, entropy) doesn't offer enough burst to push ppl into execute anymore. The only workaround is stacking 3-4k spell dmg, this requires sacrificing regen which makes spell costs in heavy armor prohibitive.
2 - I cannot run sword/board on my off bar either. Energy Orb is no longer a viable heal because you need to hold block around the orbs while the dots heal you for it to work. Instead I have to slot resto for Rapid Regen.
3 - No stam regen while blocking removes the main reason for going heavy armor sword/board in the first place - sustained blocking to combat high burst builds.
4 - Light armor now offers TWICE as much armor/spell resist as on live, I'm finding it hard to even justify 5 light/2 heavy over just 7 light, to say nothing of 5 heavy/2 light.
5 - Molag Kena is going to become a mainstay of many builds given how OP it is now compared to pretty much any other undaunted set. As a result, the 33% increased cost of skills from using it means you WILL NOT sustain in heavy armor w/ Molag Kena. That is to say, you will be running light/medium period if you're using Molag Kena.

No direct nerfs to heavy armor, but all the changes combine to make it even more suboptimal than on live. Maybe it's supposed to be balanced out by how cool the new alliance heavy sets look? I mean, I guess?

They also removed the health recovery mundus which is actually another indirect nerf to heavy armor. I get in concept why the armors were tied into a resource for each but who thought that making a set revolve only around a passive resource that you can't do anything with (unlike stamina and magicka) was a good idea? Heavy armor should give flat mitigation and reduce critical hit damage for each piece. It also needs to give more stamina and magicka back as you take damage, especially with the block change. Heavy armor has always been the *** child of the armor sets but it's bringing almost nothing to the table these days with the advent of damage cap removals and higher penetration. Now with the changes to block and the mundus stone it's even worse. Bring heavy armor in line with the other sets already.

They combined the health mundus with the steed mundus. It's supposed to be in tomorrows patch.

Wing

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

It is just stubbornness at this point. Heavy Armor, Argonians, Templars... Everyone knows these things are subpar. Everyone but ZOS it seems.

not to mention the suffering of those actually playing a Heavy Armor wearing Argonain Templar

Fizzlewizzle

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

It is just stubbornness at this point. Heavy Armor, Argonians, Templars... Everyone knows these things are subpar. Everyone but ZOS it seems.

Wing wrote: »

show previous quotes

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

It is just stubbornness at this point. Heavy Armor, Argonians, Templars... Everyone knows these things are subpar. Everyone but ZOS it seems.

not to mention the suffering of those actually playing a Heavy Armor wearing Argonain Templar

Thats-a-me... Mending-the-Wounded!
Really, i love the Heavy armor Argonian Templar Build, especially with Sword and board for blocking.
Feels like Zenimax is kindly requesting me to bend over and prepare my............. yeah, you know.

Back to topic.
"Bracing" should give besides its Blocking cost reduction also the option to keep your stamina regen.
Having a Light or Medium armor user lose their Stamina regen while blocking shouldn't be so frowned upon, as those sets are basically offensive (Magicka or Stamina) sets. Heavy armor has very little sustain compared to Light and Medium armor, as it is a defensive set. Punishing the heavy armor users because they want to play defensive is a bit cheap.

So my suggestion would be:
Bracing (1/2):
When a heavy armor set of 5 or more pieces is being worn:
Reduces Stamina cost of blocking by (10/20)%
Increases Stamina regen while blocking by (7/15)% for each piece of heavy armor worn.

With 5 pieces (which would be needed to start this set effect) you would get 35 or 75% of your stamina regen while blocking.
With 6 pieces you would get (42/90)% of your stamina regen while blocking.
With 7 pieces you would get (49/105)% of your stamina regen while blocking.

Basically meaning. If you pass on all your offense then you can block like you would currently be able too.

Zsymon

There are so many awesome ways in which heavy armor can be brought up to par, I just hope ZOS considers at least some of them.

Gaining some measly low amount of damage resistance and losing literally all sustain, PvP survivability and DPS, is not a fair trade. Heavy armor should be a viable option in PvP, yet right now you are so much less survivable in heavy armor than in light or medium. All it does is look cool.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

It is just stubbornness at this point. Heavy Armor, Argonians, Templars... Everyone knows these things are subpar. Everyone but ZOS it seems.

I friend of mine is actually a templar argonian in heavy. He have hard times in game but is caracter design is so cool ! ^^

Soris

Remove armor and spell penetration? Maybe then armor and resist could mean something.

BuggeX

Soris wrote: »

Remove armor and spell penetration? Maybe then armor and resist could mean something.

nah just nerf the whole Penetration about 50%.

Nirnhorned 2H Weapons or DW have allready 18% Penetration.

actosh

U could change the armortrait "Sturdy" to increase resistance against spell/armorpen.

There are much more ideas. Still not finished with my feedbackpost for 1.7 and the whole game.

MaxwellC

It would definitely be awesome if these ideas were implemented because heavy armor might as well be obsolete especially with this upcoming DLC.

kojou

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

It is just stubbornness at this point. Heavy Armor, Argonians, Templars... Everyone knows these things are subpar. Everyone but ZOS it seems.

I agree with you on everything but Templar. My Altmer Templar DPS/heals is very viable.

Templar tanking is taking a big hit though.

EnOeZ

I just add my voice to you my Heavy Armor friends....

Already done tenth of those threads without result.
My proposals (source):

EnOeZ wrote: »

I will try to demonstrate why Heavy Armor is still really bad in 1.6 in a PVP perspective and hopefully convince ZOS to re-evaluate their copy since after the upcoming patch it is too late as they said they will concentrate on content again.


So... I read the patch notes and what I have to say is :
THE WARRIOR DPS ARCHETYPE IS STILL BLATANTLY IGNORED

The notes :

The good

Armor: The amount of mitigation provided by Armor has changed.
A piece of Light Armor grants 1/4th of the mitigation of an equivalent piece of Heavy Armor.
A piece of Medium Armor grants 3/4th of the mitigation of Heavy Armor.

The bad

Immovable
Immovable now grants the buffs Major Resolve and Major Ward. Each additional rank of this ability increases the duration of the buffs by 0.5 seconds.
Increased the cost of this ability by 13% for all ranks and morphs.
Immovable Brute (morph): This ability no longer increases melee damage. Instead, in reduces the cost of CC break for each piece of heavy armor equipped while this ability is slotted in the activity bar.

Passives
Constitution: This passive now scales off your level rather than our maximum health when restoring magicka and stamina.
Juggernaut: This passive now grants a 0.5% increase in max health per piece of heavy armor worn. All other bonuses on this passive have been removed.

And... Siege damage will no longer be mitigated by armor, becoming the worst armor type to have against Siege since the other two can pull much better and numerous active counter measures for a longer time (roll dodge, chain bubbles and heals...)


So what do we learn ?

On the bright side, it seems that we have now what we thought we would have : an armour with significant damage mitigation over light, but is it not a long ? It seems however only slightly better mitigation-wise than Medium.

But on the dark side :

1. We lost 7% damage on melee attacks with juggernaut putting us further behind dps-wise
2. We lost CC break cost reduction gone to immovable (one slot lost)
3. Champion system has very interesting attributes to roll dodge (favoring medium)
4. And no improvement at all in terms of ressource management especially allowing us to survive roots, especially talon spam. Worse CC break is more expansive now (only hope in 80% stamina cost decrease in a 120 points Champion System attribute).
5. ... did I forget something ?

Also if you are like me combining :

• Heavy Armor
• 4/5 abilities Stamina (just to avoid a "dead" magicka pool)
• Full Melee
• DK with very few range abilities

Well you are still screwed PVP-wise. Sadly TESO PVP ability design team (if any) did not yet acknowledge the STAMINA DESIGN FAILURE. Why speak of Stamina in this Heavy Armor Thread, you will rightfully ask me ?

Because, if you chose to wear a heavy armor to PVP, it is that you want to play in the front line, right ? So, you charge in first, being at least 28m ahead of the rest of your team to open the way and you have to sustain heavy focus and heavy CC : so to survive, you charge and you... block.

Till now, light armour users do it better since they can still activate all of their abilities while blocking. But as a WARRIOR ARCHETYPE, STAMINA BASED with no range (DK weakness is range), you have nothing to do except block if you are rooted.

The problem is contrary to Hard CC, the game designers still do not recognise the absolute necessity to give ROOT CC IMMUNITY to a point to prevent root spam, at least PVP WISE.

So what to do ?

• Roll-dodge of course ? Super expensive, starving us to death even with full Stamina Jewelry, Stamina Food and being Redguard ! The DK in front of me will still be able to chain root me in front of his Zerg budies.
• Take the beating ? Sure I can block too but I have no magicka build to play the "blockcasting game" ZOS(Registered) efficiently
• Play differently ? Sure ! Then what is the purpose to go Heavy if the archetype you want to play is not the front liner WARRIOR with badass 2H + SB ?

And you still have to add the current META...
As we can all see in Cyrodil, there is no real "Front Line" since Heavy Armor (till now) is just a fail PVP wise, and the toughest guys in Cyrodil are (rightfully) wearing dresses, and since they do, they just can do most of their DPS from afar and/or without position requirement since to the almighty AOE DPS abilities. Now with even less DPS (relative -7% in my case since all my DPS is melee weapon) than before.

There is also no "manly" front line (sorry for gender word), also because of the current Zerg META that give you all the toughness you want and need if you just hold block and spam and spam and spam sticking to the "crown" during hours.

PTS 1.6 only betterment and only hope for this playstyle and character archetype is the 80% stamina reduction cost to abilities after CC break for 8sec after CC-Break we may find in the Champion System. I would personally just purposefully search for hard CC for this, isn't it strange ?

Even with this change, we will still not see HEAVY ARMOR warriors, weaving 2H Swords, Maces or Axes, even in Sword and Board (stamina-based characters) battling each other in the front line. We will still for months not be able to fight another Straight (true/classical) Warrior Archetype on the battlefield using the interesting-but-highly inefficient weapon mechanics in Cyrodil.

PVE-centric Cyrodil ability Designers have chosen Heavy attacks to refund stamina... well try using heavy attacks in front line, rooted, or on moving targets (targets tend to move much more dynamically than in scripted PVE you know...). If you light or heavy attack you do not block anymore and get squishier than the guy in dress at your right who can perma-blockcast even with half your stamina stats.

My final words (especially to new players) : avoid rushing to the traditional WARRIOR ARCHETYPE using primarily stamina based abilities and weapons since it is just not in the radar on Zenimax at all - AT ALL if you want to PVP competitively. You will just accumulate several game design problems on your one character :

• Heavy Armor (the worse armor still, with less survivability considering the current survivability mechanics that need resources to be activated since you have LESS AVAILABLE STAMINA than both medium (passives) and light (not using stamina for abilities, so stamina pool always available)
• Stamina (you should go magicka since you have still have more ability options, MAGICKA ITEMISATION IS MUCH BETTER STILL)
• Melee (since sticking in the middle of the Zerg is the way to go to get AP over fun, having highest survivability to get the points, nullifying the necessity of heavy armor). Zerging is a slow paced process compared to smaller agile groups or solo PVP.

Other games rely on cooldowns, allowing you to jump and survive in the middle of the battle. TESO cannot afford to do that apart form Ultimates but... precisely now, ultimate generation for melee require you to jump in (......) and the ultimates that could fit like earthen heart magma armor and morphs cannot allow you to survive because they are countered by the overwhelming amounts of DOTs available to PVPers, completely negating magma armor design in PVP. Other survival options are :

• bubbles that are best in magicka, computed regardless of armor (without armor mitigation), so you are being inefficient relying on bubbles the more armor you have (do I make myself clear here ? The more bubbles you use, the more you could use the better light armor passives)
• 2H Brawler (scaling with the number of people hit which is the good idea) but since there is no front line or people sticking all together apart form Zergs (where you will be rooted anyway countering you ideal and necessary positionment) and... we learn patches after patches that the ability is still bugged
• ... ?

From a PVP Perspective, for the Archetype I thought I could play in this MMO I see little to no hope as long as :

• Heavy Armor Resource Management does not scale with the beating you take
• Heavy Armor Resource Management does not scale with the CC you incur
• Heavy Armor does not include important stamina cost reduction in all anti CC measures
• Stamina Resource Management itself relies on landing unrealistic heavy attacks PVP Wise
• We have to invest heavily in stamina Jewelry to fuel our abilities without built-in cost reduction like Light and Medium, leaving Health regeneration items aside which synergizes badly with the increased regeneration of "Constitution" and Green Dragon Blood for example
• There is so few options to slow target in stamina abilities (pigeonholed in frost enchant in many build options like 2H with no built-in slow) PVPers are moving much faster (and erratically) in PVP compared to scripted PVE
• Zerging "spamming monkeys" (like someone in this forum likes to call it) is the Cyrodil META (rightfully if you want AP points and aim the top tier rankings)
• AP Points relies on farming over skill/performance and strategic individual or small group decision making (taking objectives, cutting reinforcements, decoys, intelligence, etc...)
• There is no reward to skill or performance (compared to the ones able to spend the more time online)
• Warrior Frontliner Archetype is underperforming -> you will just be alone in front line -> Vicious circle -> less frontliners "Juggernauts" they say in passives lol (sadface)
• Archers can just get rid of 75% of your armor anyway and standard armor debuff is -40% + weapon traits (-55% with my two handed sword for example). My computations gives me from 5 to 10% increased survivability (when including armor debuffs) from Medium to Heavy compared to 10% to 20% DPS gain before factoring damage buffs, 20 to 30% after damage buffs. If you factor in better resource management for Medium... in the long run, I cannot see a competitive place for Heavy+Stamina+Melee in PVP (perhaps the Templar could with their stamina friendly line).

Let me highlight this last point again, going from Medium to Heavy :

• You gain only 5 to 10% increased survivability factoring PVP armor debuffs you can suffer from (and this does not include the best avoidance mechanic in game : roll dodging which has its cost reduced in Medium)
• You loose 20 to 30% damage factoring PVP damage buffs, damage that you cannot sustain for long in Heavy (the longer the fight the higher the DPS loss)

As a result Heavy as of now is really STILL only a PVE armor. You sure can have some fun if you like to play casually in Cyrodil... or somewhat you always have your pocket healer to follow you (taking advantage of the +heal passive of heavy). You enjoy the block casting mechanic ? Then you could justify that combination choice in Cyrodil going HEAVY+STAMINA+MELEE.

Otherwise, just forget about it and go Medium or prepare for a PVE-only life in Tamriel with your old-school Heavy Armor Warrior Archetype for patches and patches and patches and patches and patches...

At least now it is B2P for those of us who still wait for the INEVITABLE ROOT DESIGN CHANGES in the HEAVY ARMOR to RESOURCES department at least for Cyrodil.

My proposals for Heavy Armor PVP, (either/or) :

• CC Break -> Magicka (you kind of loose conscience after all when stunned, no ?), Root Break -> Stamina
• Magical CCs and roots -> Magic, Stamina CCs and Roots - > Stamina
• Current 1.5.x "Constitution" Passive becomes stackable (up to three times) for three seconds (to match the new 1.6 Werewolf Blood Rage Passive) increasing magicka and stamina Regen when CCed (stuns/roots).
• Current 1.5.x "Constitution" Passive scales with the amount of beating we take, increasing magicka, stamina and health regeneration by 1% for 8 seconds by piece of Heavy Armor equipped AND by enemy landing ability on us after the first one (i.e two enewies +7% regen, 5 enemies +28% regen with 7 pieces of Heavy, 5 enemies +8% regen with 2 pieces of Heavy Armor, etc.)
• 2H Brawler gets it right for PVE increasing the strength of bubble with the number of enemies hit but for PVP the position requirement is unrealistic, especially due to roots and Talon Spam, make "Forward Momentum" morph dispel roots too as well as reducing the duration of the following ones by 50%.
• Going down the block mechanic logic, blocking with a shield (sword and board equipped) prevent all armor debuff abilities and effects* to land (the shield takes the beating, not the armor) *apart from weapon penetration from trait. Which will preserve the survivability advantage of Heavy to reasonable level
• Bring back the +7% weapon damage to melee as it is right now in 1.5 since Heavy+Melee is easily outhealed (like perma outheal) without CCs and/or healing debuffs and as you have noticed neither 2H nor Dual Wield gets a reliable stun or interrupt and we still have no stamina option for that in other Skill Lines.
• Use a standard "Cyrodil Buff" artifice where everyone gets +1/2/3% stamina regen per piece of light/medium/heavy armor to make up for the incredible amount of CCs (and spammable CCs) in PVP compared to PVE, since abilities and game mechanics seem primarily designed, assessed and tweaked from the PVE perspective.
• Make Heavy Armor reduce the duration of Hard CCs and Roots by 3% per piece of armor equipped stacking up to five times if CCed or rooted in the last 5 seconds so that we can have the "wait option" to take the beating instead of roll-doging out of danger (medium armor friendly) or spamming bubbles and heals (light armor) and even roll dodging since stamina is barley used otherwise.
• Adress the "dead pool" syndrome regarding magicka as stamina users. The change in class stamina abilities is good BUT will cause more dead magicka pools nightmares to solve.
• Make the Warrior passive "Unchained" in the Lady Champion System somehow baseline to Heavy Armor (Reduces the Stamina cost of abilities by 80% for 8 seconds after breaking free of a stun, knockdown, fear, disorient or stagger.) http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Lady

Thank you for your time and reading, tell me, tell Zenimax what you guys and girls think !


English is not my native language please forgive my errors

Xeven

Teargrants wrote: »

4 - Light armor now offers TWICE as much armor/spell resist as on live, I'm finding it hard to even justify 5 light/2 heavy over just 7 light, to say nothing of 5 heavy/2 light.

5LA/2HA was not justifiable in 1.6 either. It was never worth it.

Teargrants wrote: »

5 - Molag Kena is going to become a mainstay of many builds given how OP it is now compared to pretty much any other undaunted set. As a result, the 33% increased cost of skills from using it means you WILL NOT sustain in heavy armor w/ Molag Kena. That is to say, you will be running light/medium period if you're using Molag Kena.

You will not sustain solo in light armor with Molag Kena either. It looks to be a group PvP/PvE set. I thought MMOs learned to stop putting debuffs on gear a decade ago. If it's too strong, dial it back, don't sh*t on it.

Soris

BuggeX wrote: »

show previous quotes

Soris wrote: »

Remove armor and spell penetration? Maybe then armor and resist could mean something.

nah just nerf the whole Penetration about 50%.

Nirnhorned 2H Weapons or DW have allready 18% Penetration.

Maybe. But the way how penetration calculated is kinda problematic. Since it is percentage based, the more armor/resist you have the more it is penetrated by your opponent. Thus heavy armor suffers from this more than any other armor type. Leaving it with just a tiny bit more armor/resist than light and medium armor. Making it even more punishing.

For example, with 50% penetration(which is quite easy to reach),
20k armor becomes 10k
15k armor becomes 7.5
10k armor becomes 5k

For anyone who sacrifices his own dmg, regen and cost reductions for some protection, it is not fun ending up with 10k armor.
If penetration gonna sitll be a thing, then it should be really hard to reach big numbers and it should require same sacrifices as heavy armored folks do. Currently, just holding dual maces or a maul and a major buff is enough to penetrate almost 50% of someones armor. And this is after the fix.

Springt-Über-Zwerge

Why only melee physical damage? What if I want to play a templar or dk in heavy armor using max magicka and spelldamage?

Bashev

Once upon a time heavy armor had a nice immovable skill which was abused by light armor users and ZoS didnt change the skill that it can be used only from HA users but they decided to nerf it. Now HA doesnt help a lot with the block reduction anymore so give it at least some CC immunity to compensate for the stamina drain.

Xeven

Soris wrote: »

For example, with 50% penetration(which is quite easy to reach)

I cant speak to Armor Penetration, but 50% Spell Penetration is most certainly NOT easy to reach, especially with the change to The Apprentice. That and there are much more CP options for reducing magic damage compared to physical damage.

wizardpsx

so i was planning on going 5 heavy 2 light on my templar next patch.

its a magicka dps /heal build for pvp.


do you recommend going 7 light and using sheild instead?

i dont want to stack all this armor to get reduced by a %. i was under the assumption that spell penatration was a stat like

650 spell penetration counters 650 armor. so if you ahve 20k armor, someone would need 20k spell pen to get through the damage reduction.

Zsymon

With armor penetration included, heavy armor will give you MAYBE 1% more damage resistance than medium armor.

Yet you sacrifice every other aspect, it is appalling.

BuggeX

Zsymon wrote: »

With armor penetration included, heavy armor will give you MAYBE 1% more damage resistance than medium armor.

Yet you sacrifice every other aspect, it is appalling.

Still, you will miss the new Heavy set which give you Stamina for 20% when you are hit.
For all DKs using S/B this set will be musthave

Kas

BuggeX wrote: »

show previous quotes

Zsymon wrote: »

With armor penetration included, heavy armor will give you MAYBE 1% more damage resistance than medium armor.

Yet you sacrifice every other aspect, it is appalling.

Still, you will miss the new Heavy set which give you Stamina for 20% when you are hit.
For all DKs using S/B this set will be musthave

you'd need more than 60% block cost reduction to make the stamina resturn better than just avoiding 20% of blocks using histbark (you cannot wear both). plus histbark allow you to avoid the damage.

Zsymon

BuggeX wrote: »

show previous quotes

Zsymon wrote: »

With armor penetration included, heavy armor will give you MAYBE 1% more damage resistance than medium armor.

Yet you sacrifice every other aspect, it is appalling.

Still, you will miss the new Heavy set which give you Stamina for 20% when you are hit.
For all DKs using S/B this set will be musthave

That is only remotely useful for PvE tanking though, and even that is going to be debatable, the problem is that heavy armor is useless in PvP, leaving us with no survivable option, only glass cannon builds.

There is no conceivable reason why the mitigation heavy armor offers is so low, on top of which the passives it grants are incredibly weak.

Compared to medium and light passives, heavy passives are ridiculous.

Soris

BuggeX wrote: »

show previous quotes

Zsymon wrote: »

With armor penetration included, heavy armor will give you MAYBE 1% more damage resistance than medium armor.

Yet you sacrifice every other aspect, it is appalling.

Still, you will miss the new Heavy set which give you Stamina for 20% when you are hit.
For all DKs using S/B this set will be musthave

That's not a big deal. With Fortress and Bracing passives only(50% reduction), blocking costs 1050 exactly. That set gives you like 1100 stamina back when hit with 20% chance to proc. And it is not working if you have active damage shield on you.

So you earn like 1k stamina for each 5k stamina lost.