The Still useless summon shade

Miwerton

Summon shade Is perhaps one of the least used NB skill (the worst being agony, though the change could prove usefull in pvp) First of all the damage from it is pretty low to start with, and the minor maim is not as usefull as mass hysteria(pvp) or heroic slash or dizziyng swing (pve) for duration.
Also it is not considered as any damage, attacks or a dot. This I tested out by having my NB tank some Nereids with 2pc Nereiths, Maw of Infernal and Valkyin sets.

I started with Valkyin since it looked mostly like an dot, however the meteor never came, even after testing it out on 3 Nereids (Note: i was only going towards them and then summoned up the shades).

Then I tried the Maw of the Infernal, thinking theyre attacks could seen as light attacks, 3 nereids tested and not one summoned daedroth.

Then i tried the Nereith set as its it trigger is 10% and that would be easiest to figure out, 2 Nereids this time, not one proc of the set.

Making this skill in its current states useless (since as a tank you would find better use of refreshing path than shades) My suggestion would be to boost up the damage, and make it considered a Dot or attack, and Possibly make the shades stamina based (they are attacking with melee and daggers, so) and the shadow image use a staff, making it more appropriate for magicka users, as well as removing the current minor maim in favor for a better damage setup.

Gilvoth

thier attacks are really really slow and do almost no damage, if they could speed up thier attacks 200% and do more damage that would be alot more helpfull and i would use them in pvp.

CP5

Have you seen the voodoo magic some nb's can pull with the shadow image morph? And they debuff the target and can drain stamina well.

Soulac

Well Shadow image is only useful for the port in my opinion, even if that's already enough I think.
But it also has an another morph..

CP5

Soulac wrote: »

Well Shadow image is only useful for the port in my opinion, even if that's already enough I think.
But it also has an another morph..

To be fair that other morph gives your target 2 sources of incoming attack, which are useful for pestering people in pvp sine they are kinda immortal.

Wing

they were only EVER used for 3 things:

-the damage debuff
-the 2 shades drained stamina decently, and I think this will be even more effective come block destruction
-the teleport for the LULZ though I wish the teleport one could be placed anywhere instead of only when your in range of attacking a target, though this could be funny in the IC

Forestd16b14_ESO

They haven't even made sorc pets valid in PvP yet doubt they'll make NB shades any good any time soon.

Xeniph

The only morph that is useful is the teleport one. Nobody even bothers to block the 2 shades because the damage is really bad.

Personally when they are cast on me I just let them hit me, as a stamina NB. No reason to even block then. Sot it fails as a stamina drain unless the blocker is stupid

EDIT- R-e-tar-d-e-d hit the profanity filter, lol.

Laquey

Miwerton wrote: »

Summon shade Is perhaps one of the least used NB skill (the worst being agony, though the change could prove usefull in pvp) First of all the damage from it is pretty low to start with, and the minor maim is not as usefull as mass hysteria(pvp) or heroic slash or dizziyng swing (pve) for duration.
Also it is not considered as any damage, attacks or a dot. This I tested out by having my NB tank some Nereids with 2pc Nereiths, Maw of Infernal and Valkyin sets.

I started with Valkyin since it looked mostly like an dot, however the meteor never came, even after testing it out on 3 Nereids (Note: i was only going towards them and then summoned up the shades).

Then I tried the Maw of the Infernal, thinking theyre attacks could seen as light attacks, 3 nereids tested and not one summoned daedroth.

Then i tried the Nereith set as its it trigger is 10% and that would be easiest to figure out, 2 Nereids this time, not one proc of the set.

Making this skill in its current states useless (since as a tank you would find better use of refreshing path than shades) My suggestion would be to boost up the damage, and make it considered a Dot or attack, and Possibly make the shades stamina based (they are attacking with melee and daggers, so) and the shadow image use a staff, making it more appropriate for magicka users, as well as removing the current minor maim in favor for a better damage setup.

I posted this in another thread but I'll re-post it here:

Shadows should be on every defensive bar for a tank as they provide minor maim 15% damage reduction, 3% health from dark vigor and both major ward and major resolve through shadow barrier for up to 11.5 seconds with full heavy armour.

For NB tanks it's an excellent skill, the damage is irrelevant to it's function and replaces other skills that could perform the same function that use stamina and so you keep your stamina reserves up.

As mentioned in the other thread that since they are nerfing Siphoning Attacks having shades and particularly Shadow Image trigger the normal attack component of SA would be an excellent addition to NBs post nerf and make an already excellent skill effectively mandatory.

HoloYoitsu

Shadow Image is one of the best skills in the game. By that logic, should I complain bitterly about how Crystal Blast is aweful even though Crystal Frags is good?

As far as Summon Shades specifically, it was a very powerful skill back when we actually had stam regen on block - because people actually bothered to use block then. This meant Shades was a great way to drain their stam and make hem drop block. Since hardly anyone permablocks anymore, it's considerably less useful.

Blame Wrobel for "making tanking more interesting" for PvE.

Mojmir

give the shades a health stealing DOT effect.

Xeniph

Mojmir wrote: »

give the shades a health stealing DOT effect.

Actually, I'd rather see a Stamina Cleanse!

Mumyo

Miwerton wrote: »

Summon shade Is perhaps one of the least used NB skill (the worst being agony, though the change could prove usefull in pvp) First of all the damage from it is pretty low to start with, and the minor maim is not as usefull as mass hysteria(pvp) or heroic slash or dizziyng swing (pve) for duration.
Also it is not considered as any damage, attacks or a dot. This I tested out by having my NB tank some Nereids with 2pc Nereiths, Maw of Infernal and Valkyin sets.

I started with Valkyin since it looked mostly like an dot, however the meteor never came, even after testing it out on 3 Nereids (Note: i was only going towards them and then summoned up the shades).

Then I tried the Maw of the Infernal, thinking theyre attacks could seen as light attacks, 3 nereids tested and not one summoned daedroth.

Then i tried the Nereith set as its it trigger is 10% and that would be easiest to figure out, 2 Nereids this time, not one proc of the set.

Making this skill in its current states useless (since as a tank you would find better use of refreshing path than shades) My suggestion would be to boost up the damage, and make it considered a Dot or attack, and Possibly make the shades stamina based (they are attacking with melee and daggers, so) and the shadow image use a staff, making it more appropriate for magicka users, as well as removing the current minor maim in favor for a better damage setup.

You seem to entirely forget the pvp aspect of the game, where shades are very powerfull and underestimated.
I think its one of the best abilities a nightblade has.
In case it might be not of any use for tanks, keep in mind that templar heals are not usefull for stamina players as whip might not be of any use for dk healers for instance. See where this is going? It is not useless at all, it is just useless for you.
Agony also is not a bad ability.

code65536

In PvE, for magicka NB tanks (the only way to tank as a NB :P), I don't want to waste stamina to get Minor Maim, so Low Slash is out of the picture. Summon Shades is also the cheapest Shadow ability, which tanks should be casting regularly for the Shadow Barrier passive.

Miwerton

Ok, from a NB tank perspective i have never bother to use shades, for these reasons,

1 the minor maim is 4 seconds, versus heroic slash that is 12 seconds, heroic slash also provides ulti so i would rather expend some stamina for that then useless 4 sec.

2 I use refreshing path instead of shades, provides HoT and is more usefull shadow ability than shades.

3 where are the shades in pvp, i have only ever seen a few nbs use the shadow image to mess around a bit, as a way to expand stamina from someone thats tanking its meaningless to block it, migt as well just stand and do something else instead of wasting ressources on something weak. And the maim is the same as fear ability, and that thing is much more usefull for forcing people to use stamina to break free.

And here is how my stats as a tank are when nb tanking,

32k health, 23k magicka, 20 k stamina, going more for the full tank than just magicka.

seitekisaki

I use dark shades in duels. Dunno how effective it is but it makes me feel a bit more safe. NB doesn't have much in the way of defensive skills heh. I use it with healing ward pretty much.

Videira

I would like to see the ability as a 'self' casted ability and give minor protection or another minor buff, such as minor force.

CP5

Miwerton, isn't that damage debuff from the shades applied each time they attack, making the debuffs duration effectively the same as the shade's +4s?

Xeniph

I wanna see the ability given the teleport on the base skill and one morph be a stam purge

Miwerton

CP5 wrote: »

Miwerton, isn't that damage debuff from the shades applied each time they attack, making the debuffs duration effectively the same as the shade's +4s?

Nope, 4 sec debuff then useless again.

Ahzek

I'm pretty darn sure the minir maim is applied on every attack from the shade. At least thats what my Srendarr tells me when i get attacked by them.

Miwerton

Ahzek wrote: »

I'm pretty darn sure the minir maim is applied on every attack from the shade. At least thats what my Srendarr tells me when i get attacked by them.

Nope its only for the 4 seconds when theyre summoned, migth be some faults between other addons, tried it and its only 4 sec maim, Although faulty information is unfortunately plenty off in this game.

Vaoh

It's a fantastic skill. Shadow Image is especially useful since it lets you escape, confuse opponents, and navigate terrain in a way that helps to separate enemies (ex: place Shadow Image on big rock, CC 1 of 3 enemies, jump down rock followed by 2 of 3 enemies, teleport back up rock).

Minor Maim is enough to justify using either morph.

Xeniph

Doncellius wrote: »

It's a fantastic skill. Shadow Image is especially useful since it lets you escape, confuse opponents, and navigate terrain in a way that helps to separate enemies (ex: place Shadow Image on big rock, CC 1 of 3 enemies, jump down rock followed by 2 of 3 enemies, teleport back up rock).

Minor Maim is enough to justify using either morph.

I'm sorry, but this only fools dumb people. I have yet to be "fooled " by shades or lost a target that uses it.

Not saying it's a useless skill, but it's nowhere near as powerful as some people would think. It has it's uses though.

Also, only using it for the maim is a waste, as Fear will hit 3 targets.

Miwerton

Wait did all you people who say Shadows are good in theyre current state just came trough a portal of the reallity the devs live in.
Shadow image is only usefull in a few certain occasions in pvp, shadows lose to refreshing path in the tank deparment, And in the dps, a maigcka nb would rather use debialite/ crippling, funnel health, impale, on a pve dps bar, the shades have been mostly useless since the start of the game

Chelos

The skill is not bad, but you really have to learn to make good use of it, as it doesn't actually promote what it's good for.
I think I have seen some weird stunts in Cyrodiil. Wish some of those guys who know would make some videos.
With my mNB I'm currently trying to make good use of it. But as I am not too good as a NB yet my main focus is surviving
It is definitely one of the most intriguing skills in the game.

Brrrofski

The one where you teleport back is one of a magica NBs greatest survival tool.

Mark my words, with the change to cloak, people will learn to use it a lot more. I've used it for a while and couldn't play without it now. I barely see anyone else using it on xbox eu. I could never understand why, I think it's an amazing skill.

Although op, you sound like you use it in pve. I'm purely talking from a pvp perspective

The_Saint

you have more then 1 pve bar;-)
For single target bosses dark shades are ok. dark shades make more then 1k dps.
1,158 uncrit and 1,477 crit every second on WGT deadrot

And its a skill you dont have to recast every 8sec (its more then 20sec.)...
The "problem" they lose against path(single target) on live atm is there critchance doesnt work. With spellcrit ~70% they crit ~35%
Reported looooooong time ago = no eta

On moving bosses like darkshade spider etc. you have to cast path more then every 10sec because boss moving out, with shades you just cast and they stay on boss

SantieClaws

I have found it occasionally useful.

Sometimes when you are far enough away you can get the shades to pick off 1 of a group of 3 or 4 mobs without aggroing the other ones. As a mostly solo and rather squishy sort of girl that is pretty handy.

Also they look cool. I just wish you could keep them summoned rather then them going away so soon.

helediron

Miwerton wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

I'm pretty darn sure the minir maim is applied on every attack from the shade. At least thats what my Srendarr tells me when i get attacked by them.

Nope its only for the 4 seconds when theyre summoned, migth be some faults between other addons, tried it and its only 4 sec maim, Although faulty information is unfortunately plenty off in this game.

I have tested it too on PTS. I didn't look the debuff. I looked actual damage from a simple monster (crocodile), and the damage from them is lower during the whole duration of dual shadows plus few seconds after they disappear. The damage of each hit was 25% less while major resistances were active, and 15% less after they faded. So i think the debuff is 4 seconds after each shadow hit, and the total time of damage mitigation is up to 24 seconds.

olsborg

Agony on its own is not a totally bad ability. If not for the fact that the cc from it is usless for the nb since nbs have better cc available to them, the dot from agony is also not needed since cripple is much better. Agony breaks on any dmg so the cc on that alone makes it rather useless. The only hope for agony since the dot will now apply (TG) even if the target is cc immune is that you can use it with cripple and have 2x good dots running, we will see tho.