Damage reduction Doesnt matter

SwampRaider

I still get 1-2 shotted by NB's wielding 2handers with sharpened+ Champ points+surprise attack

-30k hp - 5 med/ 2 Light armor templar- dual resto staff

Soris

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

aco5712

i have yet to be 1/2 shot by anyone in this patch and im in 5 light with 22-25k~ hp. Its at least like a 4-5 shot im guessing if anything but i havent died to a ganker yet in IC....

Anazasi

I have not seen the fix for the twice borne star bug. I think you are mistaking the sharpened bug for that one.

blabafat

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

SeptimusDova

Yesterday on my daily Ganking. I noticed that When ganked by a pair DK+ NB I would reflect one thing and the other would get me. Getting ganked by two really cuts down on how long you live. I need to take sneaky lessons from the wood elves and the kitty kat people. Blazing shield Is a bullseye and says hit here. It wasn't two shot per se for me more like a four shot two from each. Joke was on them though I had no TV stones. Just lint and some yarn. But getting GankBanged isnt fun when they don't stick around and sweep or send a tell or say nice effort or anything they just disappear and that's just rude.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

^ So true.

Sharee

Radiant magelight will cut the damage you take from sneak attacks by 60%.

That being said, 2H maces with sharpened are supposedly bugged right now, ignoring all armor entirely.

Zsymon

If you don't want to slot Radiant Magelight then don't be surprised if sneak attacks still do a lot of damage.

If they make sneak attacks even weaker, the entire mechanic will be rendered useless.

AssaultLemming

Dual resto running 5 medium? I'm starting to see your problem...

Zsymon

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Dual resto running 5 medium? I'm starting to see your problem...

Hey, don't diss uncommon builds, they might work.

koetty

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

You forget "Blockcasting is broken? Let's do a zero stamina regeneration nerf.." :-/

Master_Kas

Have you even tried the PTS? I havent got one or twoshotted on no character that I've tested (including full light sorc, magicka nb, magicka temp).

Fastest kill I could get on someone wearing full light, no shields on my stamblade was 4 hits if he had 20-23k health . That was without him blocking/shielding etc.

The damage reduction is just a bit overdone imo.

Robbmrp

SwampRaider wrote: »

I still get 1-2 shotted by NB's wielding 2handers with sharpened+ Champ points+surprise attack

-30k hp - 5 med/ 2 Light armor templar- dual resto staff

It's because they haven't fixed the armor penetration yet. Sharpened maces still ignore 100% of your armor.

tist

Yep. From what I have seen the fix has only affected people negatively. Sorcs are impossible to kill and people are still getting 1 shot from stealth. 50% damage reduction was the wrong choice.

Ezareth

Sharee wrote: »

Radiant magelight will cut the damage you take from sneak attacks by 60%.

That being said, 2H maces with sharpened are supposedly bugged right now, ignoring all armor entirely.

2H Maces aren't bugged only dual wield maces.

Zanen

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Radiant magelight will cut the damage you take from sneak attacks by 60%.

That being said, 2H maces with sharpened are supposedly bugged right now, ignoring all armor entirely.

2H Maces aren't bugged only dual wield maces.

I believe the problem people are having understanding what's going on with maces is a result of bad tooltips. As far as I can tell penetration doesn't actually work on a percentage basis as all the tooltips would lead you to believe, but rather on an armor minus penetration rating basis.

So speccing into penetration can result in 100% penetration on lightly armored targets with a 2H, while tankier characters retain some mitigation. Dual-wield maces just result in a higher penetration rating.

SeptimusDova

It's all about the penetration.A wrecking Blow with deep penetration will usually do more damage then a blow with a little penetration.

Ezareth

Zanen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Radiant magelight will cut the damage you take from sneak attacks by 60%.

That being said, 2H maces with sharpened are supposedly bugged right now, ignoring all armor entirely.

2H Maces aren't bugged only dual wield maces.

I believe the problem people are having understanding what's going on with maces is a result of bad tooltips. As far as I can tell penetration doesn't actually work on a percentage basis as all the tooltips would lead you to believe, but rather on an armor minus penetration rating basis.

So speccing into penetration can result in 100% penetration on lightly armored targets with a 2H, while tankier characters retain some mitigation. Dual-wield maces just result in a higher penetration rating.

Correct. Penetration has never worked the way it would seem it worked by the tooltip values but I assure you 2 handed sharpened maces *do not* penetrate all armor. 2 Handed swords are better in some scenarios but 2H maces I feel are best for PvP but they are not OP.

Lord_Hev

Was 2-shotted by an EP ganker..This same NB could two-shot on live with Surprise Attack > Heavy, and can still do it.



My DK had 25k health when they did it.




Was 3-shotted while my shields were down on my sorc, 3-shotted in 1 sec from a ranged bow combo by a single DC ganker.


My sorc had 21k health




The average ganker was some-what nerfed. But the ones that could actually consistently insta-gib people? They can still do it. The dmg reduction nerf did not nerf them. They just nerfed everyone by making most fights tedious.

xylena

according to harvens extended, dual-wielding the sharpened master DAGGERS from template bags with 1CP in piercing gives me about 24k armor pen, you don't even need maces to render heavy armor opponents functionally naked

Ezareth

xylena wrote: »

according to harvens extended, dual-wielding the sharpened master DAGGERS from template bags with 1CP in piercing gives me about 24k armor pen, you don't even need maces to render heavy armor opponents functionally naked

Did you actually test attacks against someone with 24K Armor and again with 0 armor to confirm that assumption?

Erlex

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

I dont mind the blanket nerf, I just wish they ALSO fixed all of the broken abilities.

"Lets make a ranged nuke thats one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game." "Ok sounds great!" "Oh, but thats not good enough, lets give it an instant cast proc...""Uhh... sure?" "Ok and then lets make that instant cast proc also do 20% more dmg!" "...Wait what?" "Oh, but thats clearly not good enough, lets also make it stun the target!" ..."What the actual F***?"

The text is the missing person with a brain for balance at ZoS.

Ezareth

Erlex wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

I dont mind the blanket nerf, I just wish they ALSO fixed all of the broken abilities.

"Lets make a ranged nuke thats one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game." "Ok sounds great!" "Oh, but thats not good enough, lets give it an instant cast proc...""Uhh... sure?" "Ok and then lets make that instant cast proc also do 20% more dmg!" "...Wait what?" "Oh, but thats clearly not good enough, lets also make it stun the target!" ..."What the actual F***?"

The text is the missing person with a brain for balance at ZoS.

Crystal fragments isn't close to one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game.

It was only when they added in the +20% proc bonus (and the fact it used to stack) that ever made fragments do a ton of damage. Even so, I have yet to get hit by a Crystal fragment that comes close to the average damage wrecking blow I'm hit by....and I get hit by wrecking blows far more often than I do crystal fragments.

Rook_Master

Ezareth, is the damage calculation from CF additive or multiplicative?

For example, take a 10k tooltip frag:

(10,000(.5))*1.2 = 6000
OR
10,000(.5+.2) = 7000

It's the latter, right?

Someone made a thread about bugged percentage calculations that makes me wonder.

glavius

My 2.08 testing showed that a 2h Blue sharpened maul ignored 27k armor. Couldnt get higher armor rating on pts

glavius

And harvens addon doesnt work correctly

glavius

Cf procs are multiplicative aka *1.2

Erlex

Ezareth wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

I dont mind the blanket nerf, I just wish they ALSO fixed all of the broken abilities.

"Lets make a ranged nuke thats one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game." "Ok sounds great!" "Oh, but thats not good enough, lets give it an instant cast proc...""Uhh... sure?" "Ok and then lets make that instant cast proc also do 20% more dmg!" "...Wait what?" "Oh, but thats clearly not good enough, lets also make it stun the target!" ..."What the actual F***?"

The text is the missing person with a brain for balance at ZoS.

Crystal fragments isn't close to one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game.

It was only when they added in the +20% proc bonus (and the fact it used to stack) that ever made fragments do a ton of damage. Even so, I have yet to get hit by a Crystal fragment that comes close to the average damage wrecking blow I'm hit by....and I get hit by wrecking blows far more often than I do crystal fragments.

You entirely missed the point. Crystal Fragments, Wrecking Blow, Ambush; they all have the same issue. They are extremely high hitting abilities, they also have 2-3 other extremely powerful effects on them. Wrecking blow is uninterruptable, stuns, and increases its own dmg on further hits. Ambush roots the target, teleports you to them, and increases the dmg on its next hit. Crystal fragments IMO is just a good example because its so ridiculous in comparison to pretty much every other ranged spell. I want my Templars Dark Flare to fire instantly and do 20% more dmg (and travel 2x as fast).

Alcast

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Radiant magelight will cut the damage you take from sneak attacks by 60%.

That being said, 2H maces with sharpened are supposedly bugged right now, ignoring all armor entirely.

2H Maces aren't bugged only dual wield maces.

Works too with 2H Maces, works with every weapon as long as it is sharpened and has the right setup. sadly....

Ezareth

Rook_Master wrote: »

Ezareth, is the damage calculation from CF additive or multiplicative?

For example, take a 10k tooltip frag:

(10,000(.5))*1.2 = 6000
OR
10,000(.5+.2) = 7000

It's the latter, right?

Someone made a thread about bugged percentage calculations that makes me wonder.

Damage modifiers are multiplicative...however they are addative with each other which is important.

So you can get a base fragment, cast a mage guild ability for motg and then with the cf proc you'd get +40% instead of +44% damage.

glavius wrote: »

My 2.08 testing showed that a 2h Blue sharpened maul ignored 27k armor. Couldnt get higher armor rating on pts

Interesting. And how much did a sword ignore in the same test?

glavius wrote: »

And harvens addon doesnt work correctly

I know Harvens shows focus rating...but focus rating isn't the direct amount of armor/sr pierced from my testing recollection.

Erlex wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

I dont mind the blanket nerf, I just wish they ALSO fixed all of the broken abilities.

"Lets make a ranged nuke thats one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game." "Ok sounds great!" "Oh, but thats not good enough, lets give it an instant cast proc...""Uhh... sure?" "Ok and then lets make that instant cast proc also do 20% more dmg!" "...Wait what?" "Oh, but thats clearly not good enough, lets also make it stun the target!" ..."What the actual F***?"

The text is the missing person with a brain for balance at ZoS.

Crystal fragments isn't close to one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game.

It was only when they added in the +20% proc bonus (and the fact it used to stack) that ever made fragments do a ton of damage. Even so, I have yet to get hit by a Crystal fragment that comes close to the average damage wrecking blow I'm hit by....and I get hit by wrecking blows far more often than I do crystal fragments.

You entirely missed the point. Crystal Fragments, Wrecking Blow, Ambush; they all have the same issue. They are extremely high hitting abilities, they also have 2-3 other extremely powerful effects on them. Wrecking blow is uninterruptable, stuns, and increases its own dmg on further hits. Ambush roots the target, teleports you to them, and increases the dmg on its next hit. Crystal fragments IMO is just a good example because its so ridiculous in comparison to pretty much every other ranged spell. I want my Templars Dark Flare to fire instantly and do 20% more dmg (and travel 2x as fast).

I didn't miss the point, I was rebutting yours. Nothing wrong with hard hitting abilities at all. Last time I checked each of them were dodgeable and blockable ( barring bugs). Ambush isn't even in the same league.

I had a Templar repeated biting jabs me to death through 26khps while I was holding block last night. I'm not on the forums complaining about how absurd that was though. No one wants to PvP with Nerf weapons either. I don't think people should be instagibbed but nothing is more boring than endless fights too.