Damage reduction Doesnt matter

Ezareth

Alcast wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Radiant magelight will cut the damage you take from sneak attacks by 60%.

That being said, 2H maces with sharpened are supposedly bugged right now, ignoring all armor entirely.

2H Maces aren't bugged only dual wield maces.

Works too with 2H Maces, works with every weapon as long as it is sharpened and has the right setup. sadly....

So it is sharpened that is still bugged? /sigh...

SeptimusDova

Imagine Argonians with the Sharpened Trait on all those teeth ? 1000K Armor Penetration.

SwampRaider

AssaultLemming wrote: »

Dual resto running 5 medium? I'm starting to see your problem...

Us hybrid healers with extra sneakiness. I know I guess its a problem?

Dracane

Erlex wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

I dont mind the blanket nerf, I just wish they ALSO fixed all of the broken abilities.

"Lets make a ranged nuke thats one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game." "Ok sounds great!" "Oh, but thats not good enough, lets give it an instant cast proc...""Uhh... sure?" "Ok and then lets make that instant cast proc also do 20% more dmg!" "...Wait what?" "Oh, but thats clearly not good enough, lets also make it stun the target!" ..."What the actual F***?"

The text is the missing person with a brain for balance at ZoS.

Crystal fragments isn't close to one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game.

It was only when they added in the +20% proc bonus (and the fact it used to stack) that ever made fragments do a ton of damage. Even so, I have yet to get hit by a Crystal fragment that comes close to the average damage wrecking blow I'm hit by....and I get hit by wrecking blows far more often than I do crystal fragments.

You entirely missed the point. Crystal Fragments, Wrecking Blow, Ambush; they all have the same issue. They are extremely high hitting abilities, they also have 2-3 other extremely powerful effects on them. Wrecking blow is uninterruptable, stuns, and increases its own dmg on further hits. Ambush roots the target, teleports you to them, and increases the dmg on its next hit. Crystal fragments IMO is just a good example because its so ridiculous in comparison to pretty much every other ranged spell. I want my Templars Dark Flare to fire instantly and do 20% more dmg (and travel 2x as fast).

Yes sure, go ahead and nerf Sorcs only good damage ability. As if we wouldn't suffer enough from being the only class with no good spamable class ability and now you want them to nerf our only reasonable damage option. Great.....
Remember, that it's only strong when it procs, which relies on a percentage chance.

Also remember that it's as good as useless if you block it (wrecking blow for example still hits veeery hard even if you block it) and fragments are easily dodgeable for someone who pays a bit attention, they are reflectable, wrecking block, surprise attack and similar things aren't reflectable. I don't have to tell you, how unreasonable your demand is.

Snit

blabafat wrote: »

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

Yep -- it's just sloppy.

Strider_Roshin

Ezareth wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

I dont mind the blanket nerf, I just wish they ALSO fixed all of the broken abilities.

"Lets make a ranged nuke thats one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game." "Ok sounds great!" "Oh, but thats not good enough, lets give it an instant cast proc...""Uhh... sure?" "Ok and then lets make that instant cast proc also do 20% more dmg!" "...Wait what?" "Oh, but thats clearly not good enough, lets also make it stun the target!" ..."What the actual F***?"

The text is the missing person with a brain for balance at ZoS.

Crystal fragments isn't close to one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game.

It was only when they added in the +20% proc bonus (and the fact it used to stack) that ever made fragments do a ton of damage. Even so, I have yet to get hit by a Crystal fragment that comes close to the average damage wrecking blow I'm hit by....and I get hit by wrecking blows far more often than I do crystal fragments.

It hits harder than my ultimate death stroke. As far as WB goes, I personally haven't gotten hit by one harder than a CF, on top of that instant casts hit faster than a wind up, also 28 meters beats 7 meters.

Vatter

Ezareth wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

according to harvens extended, dual-wielding the sharpened master DAGGERS from template bags with 1CP in piercing gives me about 24k armor pen, you don't even need maces to render heavy armor opponents functionally naked

Did you actually test attacks against someone with 24K Armor and again with 0 armor to confirm that assumption?

I have. all you have to do is get another player that rolls armor penetration. have them read to you the tool tip damage on their bar then let them hit you. on your report it will show you were hit for the same exact amount the other player read to you. unless its critical of course but then if it is you just subtract 50% (unbuffed crit damage). That gives you the confirmation that 100% of your armor was by passed.

You don't have to do 2 tests. just 1.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

Correct. Penetration has never worked the way it would seem it worked by the tooltip values but I assure you 2 handed sharpened maces *do not* penetrate all armor. 2 Handed swords are better in some scenarios but 2H maces I feel are best for PvP but they are not OP.

I can remember discussions from launch week about Spell/Armor Penetration being broken. You would think SOMEBODY would've gotten a handle on it by now.

silky_soft

Sharpen trait gives same bonus no matter the colour. 2h gives more than 1h obviously.
DW is broken, while using any buff or passive that gives armor strength actually gives armor pen.
Maces do give more armor pen then they should. But it's better to run 1 mace then axe/sword/dagger with sharpen trait in offhand.
1 point in spell erosion and 1 point in piercing to get full bonuses from cp.

Etharian

SwampRaider wrote: »

I still get 1-2 shotted by NB's wielding 2handers with sharpened+ Champ points+surprise attack

-30k hp - 5 med/ 2 Light armor templar- dual resto staff

You are a liar ... straight up.
you have 30k hp the highest dmg ive seen on pts so far is 12k.. so thats a 3 shot at most and that rarely happens....

I have 23k hp rright now and i have not been 1-2 shotted what so ever.

This sounds like a L2p issue. Im a little squishy too and im still surviving against 3-4 ppl with defensive abilities.

DisgracefulMind

Erlex wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

I dont mind the blanket nerf, I just wish they ALSO fixed all of the broken abilities.

"Lets make a ranged nuke thats one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game." "Ok sounds great!" "Oh, but thats not good enough, lets give it an instant cast proc...""Uhh... sure?" "Ok and then lets make that instant cast proc also do 20% more dmg!" "...Wait what?" "Oh, but thats clearly not good enough, lets also make it stun the target!" ..."What the actual F***?"

The text is the missing person with a brain for balance at ZoS.

And now the screams for Crystal Frag nerfs are coming? What do you people want? Sorcs to be USELESS?! Let's not even consider that Frags can be blocked, dodged, and reflected if you're paying attention. If you get hit with a frag, it's your fault. Just...just stop. Ridiculous.

Nerf everything, amirite!?

Rylana

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

I dont mind the blanket nerf, I just wish they ALSO fixed all of the broken abilities.

"Lets make a ranged nuke thats one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game." "Ok sounds great!" "Oh, but thats not good enough, lets give it an instant cast proc...""Uhh... sure?" "Ok and then lets make that instant cast proc also do 20% more dmg!" "...Wait what?" "Oh, but thats clearly not good enough, lets also make it stun the target!" ..."What the actual F***?"

The text is the missing person with a brain for balance at ZoS.

And now the screams for Crystal Frag nerfs are coming? What do you people want? Sorcs to be USELESS?! Let's not even consider that Frags can be blocked, dodged, and reflected if you're paying attention. If you get hit with a frag, it's your fault. Just...just stop. Ridiculous.

Nerf everything, amirite!?

These idiots dont understand.

I still have nightmares about that 20k crystal frag that pesky dk one-shot me with

True... story

DisgracefulMind

Rylana wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Yeah, well, this is what happens when you do blanket fixes instead of treating each single ability differently

Exactly.

At the moment...ZoS's mentality is: Sorc shields/Healing Ward is broken? Let's nerf all shields to fix these 2 particular abilities.

Stamina NB/Gankers/Crystal Frags/Radiant are doing too much damage? Let's nerf all damage in PvP(Radiant WAS nerfed as an individual ability)

I dont mind the blanket nerf, I just wish they ALSO fixed all of the broken abilities.

"Lets make a ranged nuke thats one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game." "Ok sounds great!" "Oh, but thats not good enough, lets give it an instant cast proc...""Uhh... sure?" "Ok and then lets make that instant cast proc also do 20% more dmg!" "...Wait what?" "Oh, but thats clearly not good enough, lets also make it stun the target!" ..."What the actual F***?"

The text is the missing person with a brain for balance at ZoS.

And now the screams for Crystal Frag nerfs are coming? What do you people want? Sorcs to be USELESS?! Let's not even consider that Frags can be blocked, dodged, and reflected if you're paying attention. If you get hit with a frag, it's your fault. Just...just stop. Ridiculous.

Nerf everything, amirite!?

These idiots dont understand.

I still have nightmares about that 20k crystal frag that pesky dk one-shot me with

True... story

I've been playing with a spell damage build as I've gotten to the point in the live version where my resource management is pretty much perfected, so I thought, why not play with it for the time being...
anyways, long story short...I've had a few last minute frag reflects that will hit my shield, take it out, and a chunk of my health if I don't block the reflect in time. It can go both ways, but I feel the nightmare xD

Wish more people understood how easily avoidable frags are. (:

Maulkin

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Radiant magelight will cut the damage you take from sneak attacks by 60%.

That being said, 2H maces with sharpened are supposedly bugged right now, ignoring all armor entirely.

2H Maces aren't bugged only dual wield maces.

Works too with 2H Maces, works with every weapon as long as it is sharpened and has the right setup. sadly....

So it is sharpened that is still bugged? /sigh...

I'm on hols and can't make/post vids atm but in my testing I found it's neither that is bugged individually. It's their combination.

Maces or Mauls alone offer decent penetration but do not ignore all armor. Neither do sharpened weapons that are not mauls or maces.

But if you make a 2H maul or DW maces that are also sharpened, they penetrate more armor than you can stack. Which is why I've been calling it broken and stupidly OP. Bear in mind I had no phys pen CP passive (piercing) to interfere with testing either.

Rylana

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Radiant magelight will cut the damage you take from sneak attacks by 60%.

That being said, 2H maces with sharpened are supposedly bugged right now, ignoring all armor entirely.

2H Maces aren't bugged only dual wield maces.

Works too with 2H Maces, works with every weapon as long as it is sharpened and has the right setup. sadly....

So it is sharpened that is still bugged? /sigh...

Bear in mind there is no phys pen CP passive to interfere with testing either.

The Ritual - Piercing would like to have a word with you....

Maulkin

Rylana wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Radiant magelight will cut the damage you take from sneak attacks by 60%.

That being said, 2H maces with sharpened are supposedly bugged right now, ignoring all armor entirely.

2H Maces aren't bugged only dual wield maces.

Works too with 2H Maces, works with every weapon as long as it is sharpened and has the right setup. sadly....

So it is sharpened that is still bugged? /sigh...

Bear in mind there is no phys pen CP passive to interfere with testing either.

The Ritual - Piercing would like to have a word with you....

That was a typo, already corrected that

Kupoking

Removing one shot wonders completely from the game shouldn't be the way to go imho. Those guys are completely build for that and that only. They would hardly get kills anymore.

I think though that this rewards people with some defensive elements into their build. I used 5pc whitestrake on my stam build which countered most of these guys openers so I could get shot to retaliate and loved doing so.

I used to run full anti ganker build with detect pots. Oh the hate tells I received from them because detect pots are so damn cheap apparently.

Septimus_Magna

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Correct. Penetration has never worked the way it would seem it worked by the tooltip values but I assure you 2 handed sharpened maces *do not* penetrate all armor. 2 Handed swords are better in some scenarios but 2H maces I feel are best for PvP but they are not OP.

I can remember discussions from launch week about Spell/Armor Penetration being broken. You would think SOMEBODY would've gotten a handle on it by now.

Yeah, it isnt rocket sience either. Damage mitigation while blocking is 50%, why not make max passive armor/spell penetration 50% as well? Someone with low resist gets hit hard anyway but still has some mitigation, someone with high resist still has some benefit of his armor but a good part is getting ignored.

Active abilities which cause minor or major breach could stack with the 50% individual penetration or be capped at 50%, whatever suits the game balance best after testing.

kevlarto_ESO

I think sharpened is still broken, once that is fixed you should see a difference, hopefully in the next pts update it will be addressed, I am amazed at how long ZOS lets issues that effect the player base in a negative way stay in place for so long.

Maulkin

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

I think sharpened is still broken, once that is fixed you should see a difference, hopefully in the next pts update it will be addressed, I am amazed at how long ZOS lets issues that effect the player base in a negative way stay in place for so long.

A sharpened axe does not ignore your armor. It's the sharpened buff stacking with that of maces/mauls

SeptimusDova

Has anyone at zos addressed this or acknowledged this ?

eliisra

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Removing one shot wonders completely from the game shouldn't be the way to go imho. Those guys are completely build for that and that only. They would hardly get kills anymore.

I dont think that's a valid argument. A lot of players have or want broken builds that can do specific things, doesn't mean it belongs in the game or should be able to do exactly what they want it to do. Not when it's being done on the expense of others.

Should ZoS support and reward lag-blobs in IC with easy kills to? It's a playstyle after all. They're also completely built to do one thing, or they players inside the cluster spamming AoE is lol.

I obviously dont think so in either case, because when your own idea of fun makes the game boring or even unplayable for everyone else, it needs to be toned down, instagibb builds included.

1 shot builds never had a place in any serious MMORPG. But ganking does. Jumping unprepared players should give you a big advantage, but not let you kill the opponent in 0.01 sec like today on live. No one should die before able to react, regardless of what broken built some ganker dude managed to theory craft and feels entitled to.