Dedicated Imperial Sewers Feedback Thread

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Hi everyone,

Please use this thread for all Imperial Sewers feedback, bugs, and suggestions. The Dev Team will be keeping a close eye on this discussion. We're especially interested in hearing how fighting and combat has been in the Imperial Sewers, both PVE and PVP. Also, we'd like to know how many Trophy Vault items you have gotten, what type, and how long it took you to get them.

Thanks for helping us test the Imperial Sewers!

Elsonso

Well, first impression is that the VR16 normal daedra down there are trivial for a single template VR14. It is not hard to watch out for the boss that wanders slowly around.

The most dangerous thing in the sewer will be players in the other alliance.

evedgebah

The new mob abilities are interesting and fun. The regular mobs are around the difficulty range the should be in my opinion (soloable). The bosses are very difficult to solo (but most seem doable that I've tried). Overall, everything seems very nice, atmospheric, and fun. There are places to hide for the stealthy types for ambushes, lots of mobs to grind XP on, and cool new mechanics to learn and such.

My biggest complaint is the lag. Had is pop-locked, and the lag is so bad, that I cannot play in the above-ground areas because of it. I freeze, crash, or die to stupid reasons.

Enodoc

lordrichter wrote: »

Well, first impression is that the VR16 normal daedra down there are trivial for a single template VR14. It is not hard to watch out for the boss that wanders slowly around.

The most dangerous thing in the sewer will be players in the other alliance.

That sounds good to me. If they are mostly soloable at VR14, hopefully any battle-levelled character will also be able to solo most of them. That's what I was hoping for, but I don't want them to be too easy

Ffastyl

The fights in the sewers are tense and frantic. The enemies provide a challenge (for once), forcing any solo player to play well to survive. Groups have an easier time, but everyone runs when the sweeper comes 'round. These roaming bosses take on average 10 players to best, creating a tension that only comes with threat of death. In these tight corridors, danger is around every corner.

Sometime death.

This is the first time I have felt mortal in the Elder Scrolls Online. The first time I have felt anxiously excited about the next corner. The first time since the Veteran zone nerf I have felt difficulty.
The sewers are an area one should not tread alone, and always tread lightly.

So far player encounters have been scarce, which is good for collecting several hundred Tel Var Stones in a single trip. No need for PvP threats here, as the sweepers provide enough threat to cause any seasoned player to panic.

This is a dungeon-crawler experience, my favorite kind of experience. Needless to say, I love it!

AzureButterfly

I love the banner Daedra bosses that patrol the map. They don't get in the way of exploration because they have a relatively small aggro radius and you can wait for them to pass you by, which is very nice. Their strength is just about right too - one of them crushed a group of three, but a group of eight managed to take them down.

My only complaint is that they aren't that intimidating - they're just Dremora with flags. (I sort of ran right into the first one I saw because I thought it was an ordinary, static boss.) They also sneak up on you in the narrow passages, especially near curves. If they had a glowing effect or some sort of sound that played when they were near, it'd be a lot less annoying when they suddenly popped out from around a corner.

ZOS_BrianWheeler

We are talking about adding some audio to the Flag bearer Xivkyn to get them a bit of umph.

ThyIronFist

I've had loads of fun today and yesterday running in a small scale guild group, I haven't had so much fun in a long, long time. There's so much tactics and potential. You can use the NPCs to fight other enemy players and when you aggro elite world bosses when fighting both AD and DC it's just pure pandemonium and I love it.

The only thing I don't like is that when you're in the sewers it almost feels like you're doing an Undaunted dungeon or something. Half of the time I felt like I was grinding Wayrest Sewers. Don't get me wrong I love that you're able to fight other players in there but I think the amount of PvE is a tiny bit too much as half of my guildies were getting pissed over the fact that there are so many NPCs and unless you're a Nightblade you have to continuously fight them just to get anywhere in the sewers.

PvE world bosses though... not the highest elite ones with 1.5 - 2m HP, but the elite ones that have around 500k HP are a bit too easy and need more health to make them more challenging as you can sometimes solo and almost always 2-man them. Bosses should be bosses and they should be difficult and have more HP.

There is one thing I am hoping for and that is that these silly 24-48 man zerg blobs will stay out of sewers. I hate them and the playstyle is beyond ridiculous. If these zergs will run around in the city and sewers then this update will be ruined. A few days ago I saw one of these monstrosities in Chillrend, one massive laggy zergtrain of about 40+ people. It's near impossible to counter them unless you bring 20-30 people and siege. But that'll end up in a lagfest.

Large zergs and trains need to stay away from the Imperial City else me and many guildies will definitely quit again.

Also I don't like the new tab targeting system. I prefer the one we have now... or I just need to get used to it.

InsidiousMagnus

I really like this but there is a huge problem. The amount of time I spend playing compared to relogging because of a crash is huge. On average I crash around 20 times in 1 hour and I am not the only person with this problem. For us to test this thing we need to be able to play it first. The crashes mainly happen up in the city not as much as when you are in the sewers.

Dagoth_Rac

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We are talking about adding some audio to the Flag bearer Xivkyn to get them a bit of umph.

Here you go. Copyright, schmopyright.

https://youtu.be/hNv5sPu0C1E

ToRelax

So the crashes aside, I'll list a few things I would like to be changed...

- In my opinion, AD has is at a slight disadvantage with their sewer map. There is a curved tunnel very close to their home base that is ideal to be blocked by opposing alliances. Something similar can be done to the other alliances, too, but not that easy and it would still let that alliance some room in the sewers.
Obviously, this is not a big issue, with the access to the city requiring keeps in Cyrodiil and it being possible to enter the sewers from the imperial districts. Still, I found it noteworthy as it is a reason for me to lead my group to that particular spot on default.

- I really hate these (Xivkyn?) bosses that roam around the sewers. They are not only able to heal incredibly fast, they also follow you everywhere you go on their sewer map and some of ther abilities seem to have unlimited range, making it near impossible to get rid of them. For a large group they are free stones, for a small group they are an annoyance and for a solo player they can be inevitable death - or run while you can.
These bosses, most of all, should reset like any other mob when you go far enough away.

- The sewers are really large. And straight-lined. If you want to PvP, you cross your own faction's sewer maps one by one, then the one of the opposing faction you are "invading". And all the way back and forth everytime you want to save some stones. Unless you pay for one of those teleport items, in that case you only have half the way to go. Alternatively, you can walk overland and run through 2 imperial districts, then enter the sewers again. People are complaining that open world cyrodiil is a "horse simulator", but there it takes me way less time to reach the place of action again.
Some kind of main tunnel to lead from the alliance's base to the crossroads would be nice I think, that you can run along fast but still not just pass all the enemies who came to your part of the sewers to fight you. However, that would be a major redesign effort, obviously.

- There are just too many PvE mobs. I understand this is also a PvE zone, but when every fight in every fight more mobs than players are involved, something is very wrong, imo.
Just going through the sewers easily feels more like grinding in PvE than walking through a PvP zone.

- And at last, something that I could not experience yet, but that must be said anyway:
I have seen nothing in the sewers, or anywhere in the imperial city, to discourage zergs and blobs.
The balance changes suggest as well that you would rather see everyone run in a large group and spam their favorite AoE, it's not only effective, many changes also make it even easier now (and harder for outnumbered enemies).
If that is your opinion about how PvP should look like, just tell us. I for one will be gone as soon as there is an alternative anyway (and frankly, your communication policy plays a large role in that).

Now don't let yourself be discouraged by that feedback, there are also many good things in the sewers, rather optimize it now.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

I am going to upset a few people, but ZOS PLEASE don't change the number of npcs in the IC. I have found that it is better to die from the mob than by another player to the point that I will suicide my character when I see the other factions. Yes, that's how a PVEr deals with the gank squad.

Etaniel

My personnal feedback after venturing in the sewers yesterday :

I was in a party of 3 DC players, and we decided to go down from the Imperial city into the EP sewer zone. We got a few kills near their spawn point, and decided to try to reach the DC home base by going through the sewers, to the central hub and back up to the DC side.
After leaving the first EP sewer zone, we did not encounter any other players until we got back to the first DC zone, which was a bit disappointing.

There are loads of cool spots to fight in, tight corridors, stairs etc it seems like it could be loads of fun ! But at the same time, it doesn't seem like there is an incentive to go in those deeper levels. The only reason you would go there is to farm mobs to get tel var stones, but it's nothing more than another grinding spot.


I loved the atmosphere, the look and feel of the sewers and their size, even if it's a long time to go through it, it's a fun ride.

The mobs stayed the same strength as the ones in first levels, aside from a boss or two but they were all easy to kill in 3 man groups, even with our broken armor and pvp specs.

The number of Npcs is fine, but maybe rearrange them a bit to leave more open space for fighting. Maybe make them les powerful in the first zones, so that they are just a mere nuisance, and won't interfere with pvp unless they are bosses, and make them stronger in the deeper levels.

What I would like to see changed : more incentive to go in the deeper levels, and more difficulty.
Maybe add a crafting station or two down there, make the bosses a bit more challenging with a good chance to drop interesting loot. Maybe I missed something and there are quests to complete, but I didn't see any.

The most important part for me is to create player traffic down there, as the setups are really awesome for PvP fights, and give a breath of fresh air compared to the typical plains of Cyrodil.

I can't wait to go hunt people in there on live

Enodoc

ToRelax wrote: »

Some kind of main tunnel to lead from the alliance's base to the crossroads would be nice I think, that you can run along fast but still not just pass all the enemies who came to your part of the sewers to fight you. However, that would be a major redesign effort, obviously.

Alternatively, to get people around a bit quicker, they could add a one-way ladder from the Alliance Base that goes straight there, like the ladders that go to the Districts. Yes, you would bypass some enemies, but when you get there, you'd be stuck, and you'd have to go through the other sewer sections where you'd come across enemies anyway. Right now it takes too long to get to the sewer hub, in my opinion, meaning the section itself is pretty devoid of life.

Ysne58

I already posted the bug I found with tri-foods, as well as /bugged it in game.

Losing 100% of stones to gankers is not my idea of fun. I have no interest in playing this on live the way it's set up.

Etaniel

Ysne58 wrote: »

I already posted the bug I found with tri-foods, as well as /bugged it in game.

Losing 100% of stones to gankers is not my idea of fun. I have no interest in playing this on live the way it's set up.

I got ganked about 5 or 6 times and every time they tried they got wrecked because you simply can't oneshot anymore. I ended up walking around in IC and the sewers for 45 min, collected 1.8k stones, went through enemy sewers and came back home to bank them.
If you don't go to the overpopulated districts like Arena, then you'll just have to deal with a few seldom gankers.
If you don't want to l2p to learn how to deal with them on your own, grab a couple of friends when you go out of the safe zone.
Heck you can even suicide to monsters if you really don't want to bother to get better

Elsonso

Enodoc wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Well, first impression is that the VR16 normal daedra down there are trivial for a single template VR14. It is not hard to watch out for the boss that wanders slowly around.

The most dangerous thing in the sewer will be players in the other alliance.

That sounds good to me. If they are mostly soloable at VR14, hopefully any battle-levelled character will also be able to solo most of them. That's what I was hoping for, but I don't want them to be too easy

Do not discount this: "The most dangerous thing in the sewer will be players in the other alliance"

While you can solo 2-3 normal Daedra and no doubt the low level 'bosses' that are not on patrol (or go around them) the Alliance players I have encountered have been in groups and are expecting other players to be using stealth. They will home in on a hidden solo player as if they were dressed like Elton John, carrying a tungsten torch, and equipped with a neon sign above them saying, "I am here"

If you are not a player that is versed in PVP and can handle yourself in PVP situations, you will die. (cue Star Wars imperial theme)

AllPlayAndNoWork

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

The game crashed right after I entered the sewers today (i was just standing there doing nothing) and now when I log into the PTS the game hangs/freezes every time I try to log back into them.

Elloa

Heya everyone,

I'll write a proper feedback another time, but I just wanted to react to this.

- There are just too many PvE mobs. I understand this is also a PvE zone, but when every fight in every fight more mobs than players are involved, something is very wrong, imo.
Just going through the sewers easily feels more like grinding in PvE than walking through a PvP zone.

As PVE player (mostly) I find the Sewer a GREAT place. It's tense, there is plenty of mobs, plenty of bosses. You need to be in a group, you can even be in a relatively large group (like 6 or 8 persons) and have lots of fun farming stone, and still have the thrill to meet other players and have a PVP fight.

It feel great for PVE players, because the Districts is a war zone, and PVE players or casual players stand no chance to get stones. While in the sewers it's fun, challenging, but also a bit more peaceful and excitting as the PVP encounter will be more "rare".

So basically what I'm saying is that the Sewers is a ideal place for PVE players or casual players that want to participate in the TelVar stone war without being the constant target of other players: It is not a war zone, but a place where embuches, trap, and bad encounter are possible and requiere players to be careful.

If the Sewers would have less mobs, less bosses, it would leave more space for players to Warzone the place, and then Imperial City would definitively not be an expansion that could be recommended to PVE players.
At least the sewers offer a great compromise, as it is possible for bad PVPer to get some stone without removing the danger and the possibility for them to be killed by other players, but giving them more chance to survive and escape.

Players that want pure PVP go in the District and fight over there. They can leave the sewers for PVE players and embushers.

ToRelax

Elloa wrote: »

Heya everyone,

I'll write a proper feedback another time, but I just wanted to react to this.

- There are just too many PvE mobs. I understand this is also a PvE zone, but when every fight in every fight more mobs than players are involved, something is very wrong, imo.
Just going through the sewers easily feels more like grinding in PvE than walking through a PvP zone.

As PVE player (mostly) I find the Sewer a GREAT place. It's tense, there is plenty of mobs, plenty of bosses. You need to be in a group, you can even be in a relatively large group (like 6 or 8 persons) and have lots of fun farming stone, and still have the thrill to meet other players and have a PVP fight.

It feel great for PVE players, because the Districts is a war zone, and PVE players or casual players stand no chance to get stones. While in the sewers it's fun, challenging, but also a bit more peaceful and excitting as the PVP encounter will be more "rare".

So basically what I'm saying is that the Sewers is a ideal place for PVE players or casual players that want to participate in the TelVar stone war without being the constant target of other players: It is not a war zone, but a place where embuches, trap, and bad encounter are possible and requiere players to be careful.

If the Sewers would have less mobs, less bosses, it would leave more space for players to Warzone the place, and then Imperial City would definitively not be an expansion that could be recommended to PVE players.
At least the sewers offer a great compromise, as it is possible for bad PVPer to get some stone without removing the danger and the possibility for them to be killed by other players, but giving them more chance to survive and escape.

Players that want pure PVP go in the District and fight over there. They can leave the sewers for PVE players and embushers.

The districts are just as populated by PvE mobs as the sewers are.
I have no problem with players going there to grind them if they think that's fun. But the mobs don't really seem to respect the main passages and block the way through the sewers literally around every corner - and that is not making it exciting or anything, besides the roaming bosses they are not very dangerous. Just turns a walk to the other side of the sewers into a tedious grind.

Ffastyl

You know what sweepers are like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB_PVPyn6n8

Darlgon

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Sigh.. I know you prob dont want me going thru and atting you on each of these threads.. but if you really want feedback, they need to be stickied in the PTS forums.

Enodoc

Did somebody say that the "Barathrum Centrata" event was bugged? Also, has anybody found any of that hidden content that they mentioned in the ESO Live special?
[/bump]

Docmandu

WTB IC with 50% less mobs.. or I could just bandwagon and roll an NB too so I can stealth past everything in safety and not waste so much time fighting trash.

RoamingRiverElk

Sewers are very cool as long as the enemy player groups there aren't bigger than six players in strength. However, like ToRelax, I have not seen anything there that would discourage 12-person, 24-person, 36-person, 48-person blobs from running there. Heaven forbid you're there in the sewers when such a group comes across, there's no way for you to avoid them unless you're a nightblade with unlimited cloaking (easily achievable for magicka nightblades, and *it is also possible for stamina nightblades* even though some people don't realize it), and even then it's kind of iffy.

Combat mechanics in player versus player need to be designed with outnumbered play in mind so that it is not always about numbers. Reduce healing that affects multiple people, and buff attack abilities that can hit multiple enemies. Magicka detonation does not support outnumbered play even now - just think of how it works in 5 vs 15 fights. Ultimate generation used to help small groups, now it favors numbers.

The sweeper boss... there's one thing I wish - that it would sometimes change target based on distance too, not just who has hit it. Because there are times there is just no way you can get rid of its aggro, even when you bring it to an area where people from two factions are fighting. It just sticks to you, no matter what you try. On the other hand, I love that it's so dangerous, it's one of the most dangerous things there, something to actually really avoid. Gives a bit of a jolt when it's around the corner and you see it and it starts to do the 'turning around, I saw you' animation.

I love the atmosphere of the sewers when it comes to lighting, the loss of sight, items, it feels perfect in that regard. But all of this will be for nothing, if massive blobs of players sweep and clean the sewers every 20 minutes.

Also, when it comes to small group play... I played a DK for a long, long time, but ever since ESOTU came, nightblades and sorcerers are much better for small group play when outnumbered. This is even more so in the sewers that are filled with npcs that one does not want to fight.

In short - good job, but do something for small groups (2 to 5 players) so that they can actually have a chance against bigger groups, *especially* in the Imperial City.

Enodoc

On sweepers - there's an achievement for killing all the sweepers in the Districts, and for all the static bosses in the Sewers, so can we have an achievement for all the sweepers in the Sewers as well?

baratron

How do you even fight in the curved sections of tunnel? I mean, how does the targeting work?

wraith808

Enodoc wrote: »

On sweepers - there's an achievement for killing all the sweepers in the Districts, and for all the static bosses in the Sewers, so can we have an achievement for all the sweepers in the Sewers as well?

Good catch! I haven't even been paying attention to the achievements... have to get them on live, anyway

Enodoc

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom The markers on the sewers map for "Door to <x>", where <x> is any of the sewer sections (Lambent Passage, Vile Drainage, Barathrum Centrata, Alessian Tombs, etc) have all disappeared; was that intentional? With their removal, that's a loss of 21 Discovery XP sources, amounting to 15,036 base XP (at Veteran ranks) that can no longer be gained.