Researching Traits should be more interactive.

Rinmaethodain

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Are you in a hurry?

You can already reduce the research time significantly by investing in the corresponding passive skill in the crafting line. Just in case you didn't know (i did not see it mentioned in your original post)

Other than that - i don't see how you can consider something tedious when you can do it by just pushing a button and then forgetting about it until it completes itself. If you had to push that button every 10 seconds for a day - now that would be tedious.

I realise that. That "over 1 year" to research everything I put in the OP is assuming you have all the passives AND are subscribed.

If crafting was your main thing, then it would be hard to simply forget about. I guess tedious wasn't a very good word...what I'm trying to say is...it's boring because it requires absolutely no involvement from the player whatsoever whilst that timer is ticking.

If its boring FOR YOU then why do you bother with it? Leave it to people who are not bothered that something is happening in the background and is not interrupting them in any way.

Its boring for you, dont do it. Its simple as that.

Azurephoenix999

Sallington wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

I think this idea has merit and I'm looking at it in the long term as a fully leveled Master Crafter in all professions.
Sure, there's no new trait coming out This time but sooner or later there will be a 10th trait and beyond.
Having a method to promote ingame play to cut research times rather than "throw the wallet at it" isn't a bad thing.

I see it as adding to crafting, a way to involve it more in daily play like writs do. Otherwise research is...well...just kinda blah.

Any new traits that are introduced could use something new. Maybe a long quest line in whatever new zones they would inevitably come with, or something like that. Or a chance for the "research book" or something to drop from the last boss in a dungeon.

That's also a cool idea!

jkemmery

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Entitlement at its best.

@MaximusDargus

Exactly how is it "entitlement" to want to improve something so that the game is more enjoyable, overall? Exactly how is it anything other than "tedious" to be forced to wait, several days with absolutely no input in order to unlock the last few final traits on an item? It's not, it's a ridiculous time sink built in to the game, and it's difficult for me to see how it could be viewed otherwise.

It's certainly not "entitlement" to want to be able to unlock crafting traits, and put forth a suggestion to do so. Please look up the word "entitlement". It's become the insult du jour among cranky old men, and it's becoming ridiculous all of the things it's inaccurately applied to. By the way I'm a 47 year old male.

Azurephoenix999

jkemmery wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Entitlement at its best.

@MaximusDargus

Exactly how is it "entitlement" to want to improve something so that the game is more enjoyable, overall? Exactly how is it anything other than "tedious" to be forced to wait, several days with absolutely no input in order to unlock the last few final traits on an item? It's not, it's a ridiculous time sink built in to the game, and it's difficult for me to see how it could be viewed otherwise.

It's certainly not "entitlement" to want to be able to unlock crafting traits, and put forth a suggestion to do so. Please look up the word "entitlement". It's become the insult du jour among cranky old men, and it's becoming ridiculous all of the things it's inaccurately applied to. By the way I'm a 47 year old male.

Exactly. The guy should just leave if he doesn't have anything to constructive to say.

puffy99

It IS boring so as the previous poster said I don't do it...

With that said, simply deconstructing should of given you the trait/discover ability.

Or send you to crafting school for a week IDC. The way it is now, some people will just say forget it..

lathbury

I think 10% per day is a bit much need to figure out the maths first. but with this idea it needs to be much lower. as 10 percent means after 5 days you have already nearly halved the time to research a 9th trait.

so while Im all for making crafting more interactive I feel a flat 10 -20% bonus while keeping up on this quest idea is preferable soeso plus reduces 30 days to 27 this reduces another 20% or so down to 21 as long as it is done daily to get the buff.

Rinmaethodain

If i would leave, and everyone who "dont provide anything constructive", of course from OPs perspective who is advertising his idea because he has certain personal gains to obtain (hidden for now but come out pretty quick when he starts talking more)

then this topic would turn into happy circle of adoration with everyone name on OPs post (just because they agree with him) and the whole idea would glow with false image of being perfect idea with noone against it.

MissBizz

I would be game for crafting to be more involved! I think it would be good, now not only is it just a waiting game, but for folks who really care about getting all the traits - they could put a bit more effort in and be rewarded with shorter times, while those who don't really care can just wait it out.

I would like it to be something a tad more interesting than.. say.. crafting writs. Maybe finding a certain location and "discover" more about the trait you are learning or something, and then maybe a small puzzle of some kind to show you were listening?

MikeyV611

lathbury wrote: »

I think 10% per day is a bit much need to figure out the maths first. but with this idea it needs to be much lower. as 10 percent means after 5 days you have already nearly halved the time to research a 9th trait.

so while Im all for making crafting more interactive I feel a flat 10 -20% bonus while keeping up on this quest idea is preferable soeso plus reduces 30 days to 27 this reduces another 20% or so down to 21 as long as it is done daily to get the buff.

It would only be 10% of what is remaining. I don't feel like doing the math but it wouldn't be close to half of the final trait.

Lynx7386

MaximusDargus wrote: »

If someone suggest you to dance and jump bare-feet on lego bricks would you also do it?

Your entire response to this thread is "If you dont like it, deal with it and stop crying."

Your signature:

LEAVE PVE ALONE! - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE
KEEP PVE SEPARATE FROM PVP!

NO TO TEL VAR STONES LOOTING. TV stones looting = community of harassment, leeching and griefing. NO to mechanics that feed on others misfortune

Hypocrisy, anyone?

MikeyV611

MaximusDargus wrote: »

If i would leave, and everyone who "dont provide anything constructive", of course from OPs perspective who is advertising his idea because he has certain personal gains to obtain (hidden for now but come out pretty quick when he starts talking more)

then this topic would turn into happy circle of adoration with everyone name on OPs post (just because they agree with him) and the whole idea would glow with false image of being perfect idea with noone against it.

You're entirely right that it isn't perfect but it is interesting to talk about a method to have more player involvement.

Azurephoenix999

MaximusDargus wrote: »

If i would leave, and everyone who "dont provide anything constructive", of course from OPs perspective who is advertising his idea because he has certain personal gains to obtain (hidden for now but come out pretty quick when he starts talking more)

then this topic would turn into happy circle of adoration with everyone name on OPs post (just because they agree with him) and the whole idea would glow with false image of being perfect idea with noone against it.

Well, like it or not. I'm choosing to discuss this on the forums. If you don't like the idea and have nothing constructive to say about it, get out. No one is forcing you to stay here.

Curtischoy

Did you get bored of the other exact same topic, OP?

danno8

MaximusDargus wrote: »

If i would leave, and everyone who "dont provide anything constructive", of course from OPs perspective who is advertising his idea because he has certain personal gains to obtain (hidden for now but come out pretty quick when he starts talking more)

then this topic would turn into happy circle of adoration with everyone name on OPs post (just because they agree with him) and the whole idea would glow with false image of being perfect idea with noone against it.

You can provide constructive criticism as to why the idea would not work, or how it would brake the game, or something. So far all I have seen is "Gah, new things! Go away!"

Azurephoenix999

MikeyV611 wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

If i would leave, and everyone who "dont provide anything constructive", of course from OPs perspective who is advertising his idea because he has certain personal gains to obtain (hidden for now but come out pretty quick when he starts talking more)

then this topic would turn into happy circle of adoration with everyone name on OPs post (just because they agree with him) and the whole idea would glow with false image of being perfect idea with noone against it.

You're entirely right that it isn't perfect but it is interesting to talk about a method to have more player involvement.

I realise my idea isn't perfect. I said so in the OP. That is why I'm looking for people to give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

I'm personally proud of all the time I spent leveling one toon to master crafter in EVERYTHING. Just a few more Nirnhoned items to research.

MikeyV611

Curtischoy wrote: »

Did you get bored of the other exact same topic, OP?

Pretty insightful post....It was suggested by people in the old thread to make this a post.

Azurephoenix999

Curtischoy wrote: »

Did you get bored of the other exact same topic, OP?

The other thread was about having a cash shop option to buy traits. How is my idea related to the cash shop?

Xendyn

Sallington wrote: »

Any new traits that are introduced could use something new. Maybe a long quest line in whatever new zones they would inevitably come with, or something like that. Or a chance for the "research book" or something to drop from the last boss in a dungeon.

That's another good idea.

lathbury wrote: »

I think 10% per day is a bit much need to figure out the maths first. but with this idea it needs to be much lower. as 10 percent means after 5 days you have already nearly halved the time to research a 9th trait.

so while Im all for making crafting more interactive I feel a flat 10 -20% bonus while keeping up on this quest idea is preferable soeso plus reduces 30 days to 27 this reduces another 20% or so down to 21 as long as it is done daily to get the buff.

Good point and the percentage would definitely need to be adjusted.

It's good to kick these ideas around because for sure, researching could use some future-proofing beyond the current mechanic of just piling ever longer times onto each new trait.

Azurephoenix999

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

I'm personally proud of all the time I spent leveling one toon to master crafter in EVERYTHING. Just a few more Nirnhoned items to research.

That's awesome! You can be proud of that, I'm not saying that you can't. I'm just saying that there should be more to researching than what is currently there.

Azurephoenix999

Xendyn wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Any new traits that are introduced could use something new. Maybe a long quest line in whatever new zones they would inevitably come with, or something like that. Or a chance for the "research book" or something to drop from the last boss in a dungeon.

That's another good idea.

lathbury wrote: »

I think 10% per day is a bit much need to figure out the maths first. but with this idea it needs to be much lower. as 10 percent means after 5 days you have already nearly halved the time to research a 9th trait.

so while Im all for making crafting more interactive I feel a flat 10 -20% bonus while keeping up on this quest idea is preferable soeso plus reduces 30 days to 27 this reduces another 20% or so down to 21 as long as it is done daily to get the buff.

Good point and the percentage would definitely need to be adjusted.

It's good to kick these ideas around because for sure, researching could use some future-proofing beyond the current mechanic of just piling ever longer times onto each new trait.

I agree. Both of these ideas are good.

That reminds me, I have to update the OP to credit these guys.

Lynx7386

Personally, I'd like to see the following:

-Remove research times
-Upon activating any research (via the crafting table, destroying an item that has the desired trait), you're given a randomly chosen quest for that trait research. Upon completing the quest, the research is completed.

Quest possibilities:

1. Delve into an ancient ruin looking for information about the desired trait.
This would pick a random public dungeon (ayleid style) in the game world, based on your level, and you would need to find a tome or book within that dungeon, possibly guarded by a unique enemy that appears when you get close to the objective.

2. Obtain research information from an enemy.
This would give you a target, preferrably one of the zone bosses (skull&crossbones icons on the world map) appropriate for your level. You're required to kill the target and loot an item from it that finishes the quest.

3. Practice crafting to learn the trait.
You must craft 10 of the appropriate item type (whatever you're trying to research, whether it be a greatsword or a set of medium armor pants). The level of the item would match the crafter's level, so if you're veteran rank 1 you need to craft 10 calcinium greatswords or 10 topgrain hide pants to complete the quest.


These are all tasks that are reasonable for the player to undertake, and would cut down on the time investment necessary for crafting.

jthack2007ub17_ESO

The researching times limit how fast top O' the line gear can come from a player. Which you can call it boring, tedious, annoying, etc. But it certainly has made the more dedicated players stand out now. There's a lot of people playing from day 1 that have everything researched. Bravo, well done for them. They're the 'Master Crafters' of today. People who can whip out nirnhoned sets on requests. Awesome. Because of that, I don't think times should be shortened. I can't really support a change that lessens the dedication shown by others.

If you want more interactiveness to crafting, great. I can support that. Don't think that should change research though. Research is one and done. I'd rather an interactive feature be continuous.

If the time is too daunting to you, and the prospect to spend a year to max out -everything on one character- is too much, then split it up. Have a character focus on woodworking and light armor, another med and melee weapons, and a third for heavy armor. You'll have all the traits available to you. (There's more efficient ways to split it up too).

MissBizz

Reading over a couple points in this thread, yeah, maybe the percentage is a bit too high. Maybe it could also turn into a "weekly" rather than a daily though? Of course this wouldn't help with the very beginning traits much, but it would help with the long ones. As well I think a weekly would keep the quest more refreshing, as there can only be so many options.

MikeyV611

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Personally, I'd like to see the following:

-Remove research times
-Upon activating any research (via the crafting table, destroying an item that has the desired trait), you're given a randomly chosen quest for that trait research. Upon completing the quest, the research is completed.

Quest possibilities:

1. Delve into an ancient ruin looking for information about the desired trait.
This would pick a random public dungeon (ayleid style) in the game world, based on your level, and you would need to find a tome or book within that dungeon, possibly guarded by a unique enemy that appears when you get close to the objective.

2. Obtain research information from an enemy.
This would give you a target, preferrably one of the zone bosses (skull&crossbones icons on the world map) appropriate for your level. You're required to kill the target and loot an item from it that finishes the quest.

3. Practice crafting to learn the trait.
You must craft 10 of the appropriate item type (whatever you're trying to research, whether it be a greatsword or a set of medium armor pants). The level of the item would match the crafter's level, so if you're veteran rank 1 you need to craft 10 calcinium greatswords or 10 topgrain hide pants to complete the quest.


These are all tasks that are reasonable for the player to undertake, and would cut down on the time investment necessary for crafting.

The issue with this is that it still needs to take time. A lot of time. Being a master crafter should be unique. If it was in this style everyone would do it fairly quickly.

Sharee

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Are you in a hurry?

You can already reduce the research time significantly by investing in the corresponding passive skill in the crafting line. Just in case you didn't know (i did not see it mentioned in your original post)

I realise that. That "over 1 year" to research everything I put in the OP is assuming you have all the passives AND are subscribed.

Okay. I was just making sure you know about the passives.

Still, the question stands: are you in a hurry? Why is one year too long? Is there some deadline you have to meet? Why can't you take it slow, like every player since release, and just play the game while your research is ticking?

You have proposed a solution to a problem i am not convinced is a problem in the firstplace. I tend to agree with post #4 - it does sounds like a mild case of entitlement.

MikeyV611

Sharee wrote: »

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Are you in a hurry?

You can already reduce the research time significantly by investing in the corresponding passive skill in the crafting line. Just in case you didn't know (i did not see it mentioned in your original post)

I realise that. That "over 1 year" to research everything I put in the OP is assuming you have all the passives AND are subscribed.

Okay. I was just making sure you know about the passives.

Still, the question stands: are you in a hurry? Why is one year too long? Is there some deadline you have to meet? Why can't you take it slow, like every player since release, and just play the game while your research is ticking?

You have proposed a solution to a problem i am not convinced is a problem in the firstplace. I tend to agree with post #4 - it does sounds like a mild case of entitlement.

I think the time factor is important. It means you dedicated your toon to being a master crafter. But the work done doesn't match that. There's no challenge besides patience...which actually seems to be pretty challenging.

Zusia211

Not really an issue. The research times are fine and only issue I have is wish I would get a notification or something in game when one finishes.

jkemmery

Sharee wrote: »

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Are you in a hurry?

You can already reduce the research time significantly by investing in the corresponding passive skill in the crafting line. Just in case you didn't know (i did not see it mentioned in your original post)

I realise that. That "over 1 year" to research everything I put in the OP is assuming you have all the passives AND are subscribed.

Okay. I was just making sure you know about the passives.

Still, the question stands: are you in a hurry? Why is one year too long? Is there some deadline you have to meet? Why can't you take it slow, like every player since release, and just play the game while your research is ticking?

You have proposed a solution to a problem i am not convinced is a problem in the firstplace. I tend to agree with post #4 - it does sounds like a mild case of entitlement.

Sorry, but A) there is no way that the OP is in any shape or form "entitlement". Please look up the word. And B ) if it takes over a year to research abilities to craft armor IN A GAME then it's an intentional time sink, nothing more, nothing less, and is a SERIOUS reason to quit playing.

Gyudan

Say you wanted to research every trait in the game. Even with all passives it would take over a year, purely because of the timer ZOS has slapped on there.

It took exactly 388 days and that was before the 10% boost from ESO+. (P2W)
Source : Race to the Trait Research finish line