Researching Traits should be more interactive.

Azurephoenix999

Researching is an extremely tedious task because, provided you have an item with the desired trait, it requires that you push a button and simply wait. No extra effort is needed to learn said trait. I realise that the materials required to craft certain traits are hard to come by, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Say you wanted to research every trait in the game. Even with all passives it would take over a year, purely because of the timer ZOS has slapped on there.

I know why they've done it. They want to set the master crafters apart from the mediocre ones, understand.
It's a fact that people that go through the time and effort to do these things (researching the last few traits requires A LOT of patience) need to be recognised.

I still think that to have the researching process be nothing more than pushing a button and waiting is really...boring. It offers no incentive whatsoever to play the game while that research is happening.

I've come up with...part...of a solution. I haven't worked out all the details, but with input from other people it could turn into something worthy of being in the game.


Here's my idea. Instead of being forced to wait, players can participate in daily activities (different depending on the profession, also separate from writs) that, each time they complete it, shaves off a certain percentage of the remaining time for traits in the appropraite profession.

I think this would be good because it gives people the option to reduce the time it takes to research items by actually playing the game. It would help to make crafting more interactive.


The precise details as to how this would work are what I'm having trouble deciding on.

Here is what I'm considering:

1. Completing a task for a particular profession would shave time off all of the items you were currently researching for that profession.
2. 7.5% of the time is deducted but....
3. ...the time taken off would not depend on the total research time but instead the CURRENT time (current time is 16.5 days, therefor we'd calculate 7.5% and reduce the time left by that amount) when the activity was completed.
4. Daily task...meaning it can't be done more than once per day. Don't want to make it too easy.
5. Task possibly involves finding a book to learn from or finding an NPC to teach you stuff (these would obviously be different each time). A suggestion was to have the tasks involve searching for a tome/book/research notes in a ruin.
6. Perhaps they could be found on boards similar to crafting writs?
7. If a new trait is introduced, there can be a quest to get it rather than having to research it.

If you wish to give constructive criticism, or maybe suggest some features I haven't even thought of, then go right ahead. Anyone who contributes will be credited at the bottom.

Credits
Azurephoenix999 (me) - Saying there should be a more WORK oriented way to reduce research times. Developing danno8's suggestion for a daily task into what it is now.
danno8 - Suggesting a daily task.
Ithanbury - Telling me to make another thread about it (I originally spoke about this in a different thread). Also for suggesting #5 on the list. Also contributing to number 2 and 3.
Mikeyv611 - Suggesting these tasks be available on a board similar to crafting writs.
Sallington - Suggested #7
Lynx7386 - Contributed to #5. Suggested the delving into ruins to find a tome or book.

Azurephoenix999

Messed up, i attempted to edit the OP but replied to it instead...now I can't delete this comment...I'm so stupid sometimes.

MikeyV611

Many arguments involve spending money either in-game or real world and this conversation devolves into a PTW argument. This is a great idea for people who want to play or RP as master crafters. Allow the player to actually dedicate gameplay to becoming a master crafter as opposed to simply waiting for a timer to tick down.

You're recommendation of the 10% reduction in total time remaining is great in the developers eyes because for longer research times it can still end taking a very long time. In the player's eyes, their still working towards their goal instead of twiddling their thumbs.

It can just be another option on the Mission Board similar to the writs.

Rinmaethodain

Entitlement at its best.

Xbox one? How long it has been from the launch? And you already want everything instantly?

Whenever i find a topic with "speed something up, make it faster, X takes too long" i find console player complaining that they cant get something in one day.

"Say you wanted to research every trait in the game. Even with all passives it would take over a year, purely because of the timer ZOS has slapped on there."

It takes only over a year if you want to research whole clothing inventory (light and medium). For full woodworking its half that.

Also, who tells you to research every trait in the game? Specialise if waiting a bit is too difficult to you. Be only woodcrafter or only light armor crafter.

Once again all i see is "I want everything and i want it now! give it to me! ROAR"

"Here's my idea. Instead of being forced to wait"

Noone is forced to wait. You decide if you want craft or not. You can live perfectly with 0 crafting skill and be full time warrior. You CHOOSE to research everything. And with choices comes consequences. Deal with it

"If you wish to give constructive criticism, or maybe suggest some features I haven't even thought of, then go right ahead. If your suggestion is good, I'll update the OP and credit you at the bottom."

Looks like "Club of people who only agree with me"

Akavir_Sentinel

You didn't cry about this enough in the other thread? You just had to start your own?

MikeyV611

No one is expecting to finish in one day. That wouldn't be fun or rewarding.

The suggestion is to work towards the goal not just wait on a timer. Even if it took just as long it would be more rewarding than the current system.

Edit: By no one I mean the original post.

UTG_Zilla

Researching items is meant to take a while, hence why it's called "researching". And it's really not that bad. Why do you research items? To be able to make sets/add enchantments. If you were able to speed it up then everyone would have everything available in weeks instead of months, which would be fine if this were a single player game but it's not. It's an mmo. If you play mmo's then patience is no stranger to you.

Lynx7386

Here's the real truth: the ONLY reason that research takes as long as it does is for profit. At PC launch, there were no plans whatsoever for the game to become free to play, there was always going to be a subscription fee. At that time, research would not continue if your subscription ran out, which meant that in order to keep your trait research going you had to have an active subscription. That meant profit for zenimax. Trait research is limited to a max of 3 traits at a time per crafting skill for the same reason.

I really think that the system needs to be changed, and this is coming from someone who's already researched most traits in the game. There is absolutely no reason for research of a trait to take 30 or more days, or even half that time. I would MUCH rather begin a research project and get a quest to go kill a boss, or find some research tome in an ancient ruin, or craft a certain number of items, than simply hit a button and wait 30 days for the trait to be added.

Azurephoenix999

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

You didn't cry about this enough in the other thread? You just had to start your own?

Hey, I'm just making suggestions. I'm not "crying" about anything. I said I didn't like the current system, someone said I should suggest an alternative one. I did. They then suggested I make a separate thread. I did. The OP of the previous one wanted a cash shop option, which my suggestion has absolutely nothing to do with.

Lynx7386

BTW, the same reasoning (Time = more months spent subscribed = more profit) was used for the ridiculously long veteran ranks, as well. Before free to play, zenimax made their money from subscriptions, so the longer they could keep players chasing that leveling carrot, the more money they would make.

Rinmaethodain

If someone suggest you to dance and jump bare-feet on lego bricks would you also do it?

Azurephoenix999

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Entitlement at its best.

Xbox one? How long it has been from the launch? And you already want everything instantly?

Whenever i find a topic with "speed something up, make it faster, X takes too long" i find console player complaining that they cant get something in one day.

"Say you wanted to research every trait in the game. Even with all passives it would take over a year, purely because of the timer ZOS has slapped on there."

It takes only over a year if you want to research whole clothing inventory (light and medium). For full woodworking its half that.

Also, who tells you to research every trait in the game? Specialise if waiting a bit is too difficult to you. Be only woodcrafter or only light armor crafter.

Once again all i see is "I want everything and i want it now! give it to me! ROAR"

"Here's my idea. Instead of being forced to wait"

Noone is forced to wait. You decide if you want craft or not. You can live perfectly with 0 crafting skill and be full time warrior. You CHOOSE to research everything. And with choices comes consequences. Deal with it

"If you wish to give constructive criticism, or maybe suggest some features I haven't even thought of, then go right ahead. If your suggestion is good, I'll update the OP and credit you at the bottom."

Looks like "Club of people who only agree with me"

Would like to stress, this is merely a suggestion and has nothing to do with making things instant.
I just think that researching should be more than "push button, wait for x amount of days. Push button again, wait even more."

Nestor

Thing is, you can make powerful Crafted Sets only knowing 2 or 3 traits. Some of the best in the game only require knowing 6 traits. I currently run 3 and 5/6 trait sets on most of my VR characters.

You can learn two to three traits on the things you use all the time (7 armors and 2 weapons) in about 2 weeks, you can learn 6 traits on those in about 4 to 6 weeks, if you invest in the passives to allow more things to be researched and are ready to put more things in for research as soon as the other ones are done.

It is the 7th, 8th and 9th traits that take so long, and those don't really do much for you.

Azurephoenix999

MaximusDargus wrote: »

If someone suggest you to dance and jump bare-feet on lego bricks would you also do it?

I made the thread because the suggestion I received was sensible.

If you have nothing constructive to say then please leave. I don't want this thread to become dominated by people who perceive chance as something to be avoided.

danno8

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

You didn't cry about this enough in the other thread? You just had to start your own?

It was suggested he start his own, and I agree with it. Did you read the OP or just hop on to throw around "cry", "whine", "entitlement" and other super helpful and insightful words that only work to stifle conversation and ideas.

I like the idea OP. I like anything that promotes game-play as an alternative to possible crown store suggestions.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Looks like "Club of people who only agree with me"

I can't quite understand what you are saying. You are ok with people putting in the time to research all the traits, but you have a problem with people putting in game-play time to research all the traits?

Isn't the whole point that people who play more get greater rewards? Or do you think that someone who doesn't log into the game for a months should receive the same reward as someone who logs in and performs daily tasks?

Azurephoenix999

danno8 wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

You didn't cry about this enough in the other thread? You just had to start your own?

It was suggested he start his own, and I agree with it. Did you read the OP or just hop on to throw around "cry", "whine", "entitlement" and other super helpful and insightful words that only work to stifle conversation and ideas.

I like the idea OP. I like anything that promotes game-play as an alternative to possible crown store suggestions.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Looks like "Club of people who only agree with me"

I can't quite understand what you are saying. You are ok with people putting in the time to research all the traits, but you have a problem with people putting in game-play time to research all the traits?

Isn't the whole point that people who play more get greater rewards? Or do you think that someone who doesn't log into the game for a months should receive the same reward as someone who logs in and performs daily tasks?

Exactly, the whole point of this is to reward people who put more effort in.

Sallington

Nestor wrote: »

Thing is, you can make powerful Crafted Sets only knowing 2 or 3 traits. Some of the best in the game only require knowing 6 traits. I currently run 3 and 5/6 trait sets on most of my VR characters.

You can learn two to three traits on the things you use all the time (7 armors and 2 weapons) in about 2 weeks, you can learn 6 traits on those in about 4 to 6 weeks, if you invest in the passives to allow more things to be researched and are ready to put more things in for research as soon as the other ones are done.

It is the 7th, 8th and 9th traits that take so long, and those don't really do much for you.

This is very important. They made most of the best crafted sets easily accessible after a pretty short amount of time and effort is put in.

Azurephoenix999

Sallington wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Thing is, you can make powerful Crafted Sets only knowing 2 or 3 traits. Some of the best in the game only require knowing 6 traits. I currently run 3 and 5/6 trait sets on most of my VR characters.

You can learn two to three traits on the things you use all the time (7 armors and 2 weapons) in about 2 weeks, you can learn 6 traits on those in about 4 to 6 weeks, if you invest in the passives to allow more things to be researched and are ready to put more things in for research as soon as the other ones are done.

It is the 7th, 8th and 9th traits that take so long, and those don't really do much for you.

This is very important. They made most of the best crafted sets easily accessible after a pretty short amount of time and effort is put in.

I realise that. I'm just saying that there should be a way for people to speed up their research by putting effort in rather than just pushing a button and waiting. If you have any constructive criticism regarding the idea then by all means, tell me.

MikeyV611

danno8 wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Isn't the whole point that people who play more get greater rewards? Or do you think that someone who doesn't log into the game for a months should receive the same reward as someone who logs in and performs daily tasks?

Spot on. Experience, abilities, crafting, and what ever else should all be leveled by actually playing. Even the horse training could benefit from some sort of playtime perk, but since it doesn't change how you play the game I feel that its fairly inconsequential.

Sallington

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Thing is, you can make powerful Crafted Sets only knowing 2 or 3 traits. Some of the best in the game only require knowing 6 traits. I currently run 3 and 5/6 trait sets on most of my VR characters.

You can learn two to three traits on the things you use all the time (7 armors and 2 weapons) in about 2 weeks, you can learn 6 traits on those in about 4 to 6 weeks, if you invest in the passives to allow more things to be researched and are ready to put more things in for research as soon as the other ones are done.

It is the 7th, 8th and 9th traits that take so long, and those don't really do much for you.

This is very important. They made most of the best crafted sets easily accessible after a pretty short amount of time and effort is put in.

I realise that. I'm just saying that there should be a way for people to speed up their research by putting effort in rather than just pushing a button and waiting. If you have any constructive criticism regarding the idea then by all means, tell me.

It's one of the only time sinks in the game, and I feel that being able to grind some PvE quest or whatever it is that would lower the timers, would cheapen the achievement of being able to craft the higher-trait gear.

If someone can craft you a full 8 or 9 trait set you know that person has been around a while and has been relatively dedicated to crafting. There's nothing in the crafting system that fosters any kind of exclusiveness, or gives a sense of prestigiousness outside of trait research. There SHOULD only be a few people that can craft the top-tier crafted gear.

IF trait timers are able to be reduced, then they need to SUBSTANTIALLY increase the time it takes to gain levels in the crafting skill lines.

Azurephoenix999

Lynx7386 wrote: »

BTW, the same reasoning (Time = more months spent subscribed = more profit) was used for the ridiculously long veteran ranks, as well. Before free to play, zenimax made their money from subscriptions, so the longer they could keep players chasing that leveling carrot, the more money they would make.

I know it's an MMO, but I still think that a year is far too long. In addition, the fact that waiting is the ONLY aspect of researching just makes it tedious, boring, and effortless.

Seriously, the current system requires almost no effort whatsoever. You just need to remember to visit the crafting stations every now and again with a new piece of gear to research. That's all it takes.

I think this system is a good compromise. It means that those willing to put the time in are rewarded by not having to wait as long.

Callous2208

Might I ask that if 7, 8. 9 trait sets are worthless, why do you insist on research being sped up so you can get them?

ValVonSputz

I don't think it has to be separate from the writs. Maybe, upon completing a writ, you could POSSIBLY (meaning it would be rare) receive some sort of document (similar to a recipe) in your inventory or through mail that will speed up that specific type of research when used. But, only one can be used per research trait. This means that you wouldn't be able to save up several "speed-up"s and knock out a 15 day research in 80% less time.

EDIT: This would encourage more writs being fulfilled, hence more game play. It would somewhat reward those who pursue crafting, but only the ones who put in enough time and effort to complete writs more often (because of the rarity).

Azurephoenix999

Callous2208 wrote: »

Might I ask that if 7, 8. 9 trait sets are worthless, why do you insist on research being sped up so you can get them?

I'm not the one saying they're worthless. I'm also not insisting on anything.

Sharee

Are you in a hurry?

You can already reduce the research time significantly by investing in the corresponding passive skill in the crafting line. Just in case you didn't know (i did not see it mentioned in your original post)

Other than that - i don't see how you can consider something tedious when you can do it by just pushing a button and then forgetting about it until it completes itself. If you had to push that button every 10 seconds for a day - now that would be tedious.

Azurephoenix999

ValVonSputz wrote: »

I don't think it has to be separate from the writs. Maybe, upon completing a writ, you could POSSIBLY (meaning it would be rare) receive some sort of document (similar to a recipe) in your inventory or through mail that will speed up that specific type of research when used. But, only one can be used per research trait. This means that you wouldn't be able to save up several "speed-up"s and knock out a 15 day research in 80% less time.

I thought having something similar to recipes (but for traits on specific items) would be a way to go, but after thinking about it....that'd just be too complicated.

I'd like this idea to be based purely on effort and have no luck involved (No rewards based on chance).

Xendyn

I think this idea has merit and I'm looking at it in the long term as a fully leveled Master Crafter in all professions.
Sure, there's no new trait coming out This time but sooner or later there will be a 10th trait and beyond.
Having a method to promote ingame play to cut research times rather than "throw the wallet at it" isn't a bad thing.

I see it as adding to crafting, a way to involve it more in daily play like writs do. Otherwise research is...well...just kinda blah.

Azurephoenix999

Sharee wrote: »

Are you in a hurry?

You can already reduce the research time significantly by investing in the corresponding passive skill in the crafting line. Just in case you didn't know (i did not see it mentioned in your original post)

Other than that - i don't see how you can consider something tedious when you can do it by just pushing a button and then forgetting about it until it completes itself. If you had to push that button every 10 seconds for a day - now that would be tedious.

I realise that. That "over 1 year" to research everything I put in the OP is assuming you have all the passives AND are subscribed.

If crafting was your main thing, then it would be hard to simply forget about. I guess tedious wasn't a very good word...what I'm trying to say is...it's boring because it requires absolutely no involvement from the player whatsoever whilst that timer is ticking.

Savetti

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Researching is an extremely tedious task because, provided you have an item with the desired trait, it requires that you push a button and simply wait. No extra effort is needed to learn said trait. I realise that the materials required to craft certain traits are hard to come by, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Hmm, while I like the research system a lot. I do not necessarily disagree with the OP. Some of the ideas presented could actually be fun and we would be rewarded for doing it too!

Azurephoenix999

Xendyn wrote: »

I think this idea has merit and I'm looking at it in the long term as a fully leveled Master Crafter in all professions.
Sure, there's no new trait coming out This time but sooner or later there will be a 10th trait and beyond.
Having a method to promote ingame play to cut research times rather than "throw the wallet at it" isn't a bad thing.

I see it as adding to crafting, a way to involve it more in daily play like writs do. Otherwise research is...well...just kinda blah.

Yes! Someone who gets it!

Is there anything about the idea you think could be improved?

Sallington

Xendyn wrote: »

I think this idea has merit and I'm looking at it in the long term as a fully leveled Master Crafter in all professions.
Sure, there's no new trait coming out This time but sooner or later there will be a 10th trait and beyond.
Having a method to promote ingame play to cut research times rather than "throw the wallet at it" isn't a bad thing.

I see it as adding to crafting, a way to involve it more in daily play like writs do. Otherwise research is...well...just kinda blah.

Any new traits that are introduced could use something new. Maybe a long quest line in whatever new zones they would inevitably come with, or something like that. Or a chance for the "research book" or something to drop from the last boss in a dungeon.