VDSA Leaderboard - Lets be honest, make it account bound already

EgoRush

andy.s wrote: »

@Alcast Xrosha is gonna hate you for this suggestion but can't disagree, more than a half of leaderboards are 1-2 man teams.

Haha! Worry not, Xrosha is in agreement with it. He's hardly in need of more money and loot now.

G0ku

This issue has already been brought on the table regarding archives and hel-ra. Nothing has changed since then.

In essence it´s all about the golden items anyway. Just change it to a drop golden items just for competing it. Then some more people can put golden healerrings in guildstores and maybe the price will fall below 1,000,000

The_Saint

i had 2 chars in last vetdsa weekly and didnt get 2 healerring (i get 0). So please make the next vetdsa weekly normal give me my rings, make me rich and then change to an accountwide (maybe classwide/rolewide) leaderboard ;-)

G0ku

so you are a rng-loser just like me, eh?

The_Saint

"Only" 1 footmen ring (sold for 500k) and a dagger with defending

Better than nothing

Granz

This needs to be changed immediately and let some other people compete. I am shocked this is the way it is now.

Fecius

Let's make a summoning ritual of Main Forums Lurker! Get in circle and I may start:

Oh, Holy-Moly The Great Master of The Trials and Dungeons, Prime Lead Conetent Desiner, Gorgeous Creative Designer and Best Lurker ever been @ZOS_RichLambert !

We pray you to lurk this problem and find some good desisions to be solved. Thank you and we may understand that it may need some time!

R0M2K

1- Remove Leaderboards
2- Add a Pledge-like system

Kas

100% agree. I have to admit I like the profit from running as many chars as possible into the dsa weekly and then selling jewelry . However, the system just doesn't make sense. Even slots 90-100 are often filled with experienced players who have much better scores on their other chars.

Those who take the time to repeat a not-so-good run on their 5th twink will push out those who didn't. The only new players in the weeklies are those that had the chance to run with experienced friends or guild-mates.

imho once-per-account rules fix the problem for the das weekly. (and pvp, I know players who put multiple characters into the top-2%-bracket for rewards).

While I don't have problems with weeklies, I feel the pain when it comes to overall 12-man trial scores.
If you're not ready (or even willing) to compete for #1, your guild can forget about the leaderboards altogether. Maybe you're looking at becoming the top-10 group/guild? You'll probably be ranked soemwhere around #50 or later, simply because the top groups had replacements, swappeds char or whatever while trying to push their scores for another 1000 points.
Sadly though, I don't think account-wide scores could help here. Probably guild-wide scores would be needed (but I know there are guilds with more than one trial group so that doesn't work here)

Daveheart

EgoRush wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

The other Swag, Gill, Louu, and Nifty team from Mundus recently broke 12 on the NA side

Oh congrats to the team on NA side for breaking the 12K mark we're going for world record maaaaybe this evening or at the weekend. Buffless 12.2K run is the target! Wish us luck...And you're right about farming the master weapons - you don't need a weekly to do that heh.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I disagree that the point of this thread is the get rid of the top players. @Alcast is currently sitting pretty on >12K in arena from a run that had ONLY the defensive scroll bonus 1 for the first few stages...make the account wide change and he will still be in the top 3 every week for arena. The point is that those of us with multiple characters can farm the prizes and stop quite a lot of other people ranking. Getting ranked is a bit of an ego boost and feels great, but the reward and gold is better. Our whole arena team is in agreement with this despite the fact we had 1 person with I think 6 characters on the leaderboard. I had 2 characters on the board well over the 11K mark and I wouldn't mind at all if my weekly score only counted for whichever toon was higher

New number NA is 12,129. And absolutely, good luck.

Joy_Division

DenMoria wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree. Let's limit the best players to help those less skill players achieve leaderboard.

Because the alternative where a single player takes up 8 slots on the leaderboard is so much better.

It's better than telling the best players in the game they are not permitted to play more than once character.

It's better than needing the leaderboard into meaningless. Account lockouts would make ranks below 50 are of less value.

There is a better solution I have mentioned and that is a weekly lockout per character. Why, because the idea most of the leaderboard is locked up by small groups up people carrying their friends though. Not as much 8 characters per player. That is where you get 1 player holding a ranked spot during the week.

My solution doesn't water down the leaderboard yet opens it up more but only to those who have put the work in to get it done right. The account lockout solution merely makes the leaderboard a joke.

A joke? Meaningless? Give me a break dude. Sorry if the 100 best actual PLAYERS would be polluting your precious leaderboard rankings.

Can you define what "best" means?

After you definite "elitist," "condescending," and "greedy," sure, I'll amuse you.

EgoRush

Daveheart wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

The other Swag, Gill, Louu, and Nifty team from Mundus recently broke 12 on the NA side

Oh congrats to the team on NA side for breaking the 12K mark we're going for world record maaaaybe this evening or at the weekend. Buffless 12.2K run is the target! Wish us luck...And you're right about farming the master weapons - you don't need a weekly to do that heh.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I disagree that the point of this thread is the get rid of the top players. @Alcast is currently sitting pretty on >12K in arena from a run that had ONLY the defensive scroll bonus 1 for the first few stages...make the account wide change and he will still be in the top 3 every week for arena. The point is that those of us with multiple characters can farm the prizes and stop quite a lot of other people ranking. Getting ranked is a bit of an ego boost and feels great, but the reward and gold is better. Our whole arena team is in agreement with this despite the fact we had 1 person with I think 6 characters on the leaderboard. I had 2 characters on the board well over the 11K mark and I wouldn't mind at all if my weekly score only counted for whichever toon was higher

New number NA is 12,129. And absolutely, good luck.

We beat it already 12,198 I think it was so we missed the 12.2K target. But we tested a new last boss tactic and messed up a bit. Tried again and was on track for 12.3K then wiped on last boss haha healers fault (I.e. Me...). We'll try again on Sunday, we don't think our score is safe.

Daveheart

EgoRush wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

The other Swag, Gill, Louu, and Nifty team from Mundus recently broke 12 on the NA side

Oh congrats to the team on NA side for breaking the 12K mark we're going for world record maaaaybe this evening or at the weekend. Buffless 12.2K run is the target! Wish us luck...And you're right about farming the master weapons - you don't need a weekly to do that heh.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I disagree that the point of this thread is the get rid of the top players. @Alcast is currently sitting pretty on >12K in arena from a run that had ONLY the defensive scroll bonus 1 for the first few stages...make the account wide change and he will still be in the top 3 every week for arena. The point is that those of us with multiple characters can farm the prizes and stop quite a lot of other people ranking. Getting ranked is a bit of an ego boost and feels great, but the reward and gold is better. Our whole arena team is in agreement with this despite the fact we had 1 person with I think 6 characters on the leaderboard. I had 2 characters on the board well over the 11K mark and I wouldn't mind at all if my weekly score only counted for whichever toon was higher

New number NA is 12,129. And absolutely, good luck.

We beat it already 12,198 I think it was so we missed the 12.2K target. But we tested a new last boss tactic and messed up a bit. Tried again and was on track for 12.3K then wiped on last boss haha healers fault (I.e. Me...). We'll try again on Sunday, we don't think our score is safe.

Yeah, I saw it in the NA score thread. Also, of course it isn't safe. If it isn't the NA group that tops it, then the EU AD crew will. I'm sure you guys would prefer it that way to never having a score to top other than your own.

byrom101b16_ESO

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

i can't believe people are even arguing about this...

Leaderboards should be for PLAYERS, not TOONS.

Aren't you a solo-focused player?* Why would you remotely feel the need to interject?

*and if I have that wrong. sorry.

Because it's stuff like this that creates a "caste" system that discourages players like me from even bothering with the competitive side of the game to begin with. Getting grouped for Trials is a big enough pain, but knowing that the game is RIGGED so that only a handful of guilds can stack the leaderboard with 8 alts per player just makes it even less appealing.

Well said Emma.

I have been on the leaderboard now and again with a score near the bottom of stacks of the same players repeated over and over. I am an ex-hardcore MMO from early WoW days gamer who subsequently got a life other than my virtual one.

The arguments of hardcore gamers is always the same when it comes to their 'rights' to have it all their own way.

Hell, I used to use the less hypocritical of those arguments myself at times.

However, being on both side of the equation, and knowing my skill at gaming is pretty much as good as it always was, I know for an absolute FACT that this issue boils down to only two things.

1. More CP and the right high rank PvP skills makes a massive difference to speed of vDSA runs - so nothing more than 'time-served' allows the relevant players to flood the leaderboard.

2. The leaderboard system encourages high levels of reward for repetition of the same mastered challenge, whilst simultaneously freezing out high numbers of skilled players who don't spam vDSA repeatedly and often on relevant weeks. This effectively means the top scores are edging each other out on luck as much as anything else, as so many challenges in the arena are randomly applied to toons.

Both of these points means that if you can acheive a decent level of skill (not very high, as much as some people emphasise the fallacy that only the 'best' can get on the leaderboard) and you can afford to run the place many, many times a week with all your alts, you 'deserve' rewarding repeatedly.

This is self-interest talking, well, SHOUTING to drown out all the other players to distract them from the fact that they want all the reward for themselves and need to justify it as a 'skill = benefits' system.

It isn't merely that at all. There are plenty of people with the skill to run vDSA well, they just don't have the time to spam it with multiple alts and run it again and again and again all day.

What is being asked for by some of the current crop of leaderboard players is the right to have everything that is best in the game provided to them for merely squatting on the server 24/7, as if there are not already enough rewards for doing so - more money, more 'fishing time' and more CP.

From Zenimax's point of view, creating systems that reward the very few who can play all day and gives the bird to skilled players who cannot, lacks any sense. 24/7 players are far less likely to buy stuff from the Crown Store, and far more likely to press for changes in their favour on forums.

There are reasons we lurched into increased levels of imbalance and Zenimax are seeing lower incomes from their 24/7 players.

It's overwhelmingly an exercise in navel-gazing self-interest with far less merit to justify it than is claimed, and is far more damaging to the health of the game than is acknowledged.

MornaBaine

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hi folks.
We have edited some comments in this thread. We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. We would, however, like to remind everyone that we do not allow threads or posts that call out individuals or guilds, making them the subject of public accusation, ridicule and/or shaming. Thank you for your understanding.

There are few things more disappointing than seeing a staff comment to a thread with an interesting question only to discover it's just them shaking their finger at the naughty kids. When are you guys going to start using a different color or SOME sort of different marker to indicate when a staff post is actually speaking to the purpose of the thread????

Cuyler

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

i can't believe people are even arguing about this...

Leaderboards should be for PLAYERS, not TOONS.

Aren't you a solo-focused player?* Why would you remotely feel the need to interject?

*and if I have that wrong. sorry.

Because it's stuff like this that creates a "caste" system that discourages players like me from even bothering with the competitive side of the game to begin with. Getting grouped for Trials is a big enough pain, but knowing that the game is RIGGED so that only a handful of guilds can stack the leaderboard with 8 alts per player just makes it even less appealing.

Well said Emma.

I have been on the leaderboard now and again with a score near the bottom of stacks of the same players repeated over and over. I am an ex-hardcore MMO from early WoW days gamer who subsequently got a life other than my virtual one.

The arguments of hardcore gamers is always the same when it comes to their 'rights' to have it all their own way.

Hell, I used to use the less hypocritical of those arguments myself at times.

However, being on both side of the equation, and knowing my skill at gaming is pretty much as good as it always was, I know for an absolute FACT that this issue boils down to only two things.

1. More CP and the right high rank PvP skills makes a massive difference to speed of vDSA runs - so nothing more than 'time-served' allows the relevant players to flood the leaderboard.

2. The leaderboard system encourages high levels of reward for repetition of the same mastered challenge, whilst simultaneously freezing out high numbers of skilled players who don't spam vDSA repeatedly and often on relevant weeks. This effectively means the top scores are edging each other out on luck as much as anything else, as so many challenges in the arena are randomly applied to toons.

Both of these points means that if you can acheive a decent level of skill (not very high, as much as some people emphasise the fallacy that only the 'best' can get on the leaderboard) and you can afford to run the place many, many times a week with all your alts, you 'deserve' rewarding repeatedly.

This is self-interest talking, well, SHOUTING to drown out all the other players to distract them from the fact that they want all the reward for themselves and need to justify it as a 'skill = benefits' system.

It isn't merely that at all. There are plenty of people with the skill to run vDSA well, they just don't have the time to spam it with multiple alts and run it again and again and again all day.

What is being asked for by some of the current crop of leaderboard players is the right to have everything that is best in the game provided to them for merely squatting on the server 24/7, as if there are not already enough rewards for doing so - more money, more 'fishing time' and more CP.

From Zenimax's point of view, creating systems that reward the very few who can play all day and gives the bird to skilled players who cannot, lacks any sense. 24/7 players are far less likely to buy stuff from the Crown Store, and far more likely to press for changes in their favour on forums.

There are reasons we lurched into increased levels of imbalance and Zenimax are seeing lower incomes from their 24/7 players.

It's overwhelmingly an exercise in navel-gazing self-interest with far less merit to justify it than is claimed, and is far more damaging to the health of the game than is acknowledged.

#TRUTH

I was thinking the exact same thing but was too lazy to write it all out lol. Thanks for saying what most of us were thinking

P3ZZL3

@byrom101b16_ESO

Very succinct and to the point overview in my opinion.

HxC

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

i can't believe people are even arguing about this...

Leaderboards should be for PLAYERS, not TOONS.

Aren't you a solo-focused player?* Why would you remotely feel the need to interject?

*and if I have that wrong. sorry.

Because it's stuff like this that creates a "caste" system that discourages players like me from even bothering with the competitive side of the game to begin with. Getting grouped for Trials is a big enough pain, but knowing that the game is RIGGED so that only a handful of guilds can stack the leaderboard with 8 alts per player just makes it even less appealing.

Well said Emma.

I have been on the leaderboard now and again with a score near the bottom of stacks of the same players repeated over and over. I am an ex-hardcore MMO from early WoW days gamer who subsequently got a life other than my virtual one.

The arguments of hardcore gamers is always the same when it comes to their 'rights' to have it all their own way.

Hell, I used to use the less hypocritical of those arguments myself at times.

However, being on both side of the equation, and knowing my skill at gaming is pretty much as good as it always was, I know for an absolute FACT that this issue boils down to only two things.

1. More CP and the right high rank PvP skills makes a massive difference to speed of vDSA runs - so nothing more than 'time-served' allows the relevant players to flood the leaderboard.

2. The leaderboard system encourages high levels of reward for repetition of the same mastered challenge, whilst simultaneously freezing out high numbers of skilled players who don't spam vDSA repeatedly and often on relevant weeks. This effectively means the top scores are edging each other out on luck as much as anything else, as so many challenges in the arena are randomly applied to toons.

Both of these points means that if you can acheive a decent level of skill (not very high, as much as some people emphasise the fallacy that only the 'best' can get on the leaderboard) and you can afford to run the place many, many times a week with all your alts, you 'deserve' rewarding repeatedly.

This is self-interest talking, well, SHOUTING to drown out all the other players to distract them from the fact that they want all the reward for themselves and need to justify it as a 'skill = benefits' system.

It isn't merely that at all. There are plenty of people with the skill to run vDSA well, they just don't have the time to spam it with multiple alts and run it again and again and again all day.

What is being asked for by some of the current crop of leaderboard players is the right to have everything that is best in the game provided to them for merely squatting on the server 24/7, as if there are not already enough rewards for doing so - more money, more 'fishing time' and more CP.

From Zenimax's point of view, creating systems that reward the very few who can play all day and gives the bird to skilled players who cannot, lacks any sense. 24/7 players are far less likely to buy stuff from the Crown Store, and far more likely to press for changes in their favour on forums.

There are reasons we lurched into increased levels of imbalance and Zenimax are seeing lower incomes from their 24/7 players.

It's overwhelmingly an exercise in navel-gazing self-interest with far less merit to justify it than is claimed, and is far more damaging to the health of the game than is acknowledged.

+1, thx

Competition has to be fair.

1. CP cap
2. Clear scoring system
3. No add-ons during run.

Only skill and tactic/strategy should be rewarded.

andy_s

Not sure if it was mentioned in the thread, but the simplest solution is to extend vdsa leaderboards to 300 positions, because 12men trials can have max 1200 people, and vdsa only 400.

Shadesofkin

Jeckll wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I try to play at my best level to get on the leaderboard each week, even in VDSA. If I manage to do it more than once that's my business, not yours.

In a social environment, the strong should actually care about the weaker ones and it's the business of the community to set the rules in a way everyone can be happy.

The strong should care about the weak, I don't disagree...but this is a competition, this has nothing to do with a social environment and everything to do with competition, play harder if you aren't succeeding or just admit you can't do it. There's no shame in that.

Suru

EgoRush wrote: »

andy.s wrote: »

@Alcast Xrosha is gonna hate you for this suggestion but can't disagree, more than a half of leaderboards are 1-2 man teams.

Haha! Worry not, Xrosha is in agreement with it. He's hardly in need of more money and loot now.

Not everyone in the top is rich )))))):

EgoRush

Suru wrote: »

Not everyone in the top is rich )))))):

I'm so poor but arena rewards are moot now with V16 coming in. People aren't buying up the healer rings anymore! :'(

Artemiisia

EgoRush wrote: »

Suru wrote: »

Not everyone in the top is rich )))))):

I'm so poor but arena rewards are moot now with V16 coming in. People aren't buying up the healer rings anymore! :'(

not only stuff from vdsa

im thinking of vendor all my stuff now from the whole game aspect

Alcast

Highly possible they forget to implement v16 gear

Artemiisia

im actually scared they wont scale vDSA to vr16, that means maybe master weapons will become weak, if they dont forget to implement v16 gear

only incentive to do vDSA then would be champion points and leader-board, not even the weekly anymore

Nifty2g

Alcast wrote: »

Highly possible they forget to implement v16 gear

I hope they scale to v16 and make it how it was when it was first released with no pvp buffs.
god dayum that would be fun

sagitter

I hope too they scalde vdsa to v16 and also veteran dungeons.

idk

Addihul wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

It's fair as it is. All this thread is about is eliminating competition so those who have put less effort into the content and learning their skills have a better chance of making the leaderboard. It's all about eliminating the top players.

Well, their ability to multi bank roll on weeklies as well as take top spots from others wanting their shot. No one wants to see the top players disappear. Your highest account toon score takes one listing and the lower is bumped off. Fixed

I hear ha. Make it easier for those who put less time into inproving their vDSA score a better chance. I understand and get the idea of limiting the competition for this purpose. I just don't agree. Put the time in and get it done that way, the same way I did it. The reward is much more gratifying.

Alcast

Any changes incoming or will it still be a farmfestival? Next weekly rewards hit the vendors soon.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Humatiel

*facepalm* necroed thread. Google has failed me.