VDSA Leaderboard - Lets be honest, make it account bound already

EgoRush · June 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The simple fact is that most of your hardcore characters stay on the leaderboard because of the gear they've earned by getting on the leaderboard. Sub out that gear and I'm guessing you wouldn't be getting the scores you're currently getting.

I'm not questioning that you're more hardcore, more dedicated, or perhaps even better than average. You got on the leaderboard because of those things. You stay on the leaderboard because you got on the leaderboard early.

I completely disagree with you here. Not a single piece of the gear I use or my teammates drops exclusively from vDSA. The only item I use from vDSA rewards is the Master Restoration Staff and Master 2H Sword. I don't use healer, our tank doesn't use Footman. Archer's Mind and Destruction Mastery neither. I could drop the Master weapons and still comfortably get a top 10 score in arena. My gear is Martial Knowledge (easy to obtain), Torug Pact (craftable), Adroitness (vet dungeon CoH), Cyrodiil's Light (PvP) and the Master weapons. My position on the leaderboard is minimally (if at all) to do with the gear that dropped in vDSA.

Latter wrote: »

How many of them are templars? (budum tshh)

Rest assured we got NB, DKs, Sorcerer and Templars in leaderboard scores. We had a magicka NB DPS on one team that got 11.6K still. We have fun competing with all classes

and still have DKs outperforming Templars in some cases.

Cuyler · June 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Just curious what the lowest score to get on the vDSA leaderboard is at this time (NA and EU)? I'm at work and can't look.

I think it was ~10,5k on EU for last weeks weekly on EU.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

for NA its 10431 right now

Thanks for the infos

Dagoth_Rac · June 2015

What about:

Calculate 100 best scores by account. Any character with a score higher than #100 in that list gets a reward.

Leaderboard is expanded so it is not dominated by 10 players with 900 Champion Points that are shared with all 8 of their characters. At the same time, you can still get multiple rewards if you have multiple characters capable of getting good scores.

idk · June 2015

Sooooo, if he is a better healer than you he shouldn't be on the leaderboard because he got a better score on his dps? Seems like some people just want to make it easier for players who have done less work perfecting their skills to get on the leaderboard. Seems like it's a movement to diminish what it takes to get on the leaderboard and hence devalue what it means to have that achievement.

If they were to follow through with such a poor idea I expect those who get on the leaderboard would still feel great about their lessor achievement. My suggestion is put the effort into it and real the real reward of making the leaderboard instead of wasting time here complaining be said you cannot.

Merlin13KAGL · June 2015

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Sooooo, if he is a better healer than you he shouldn't be on the leaderboard because he got a better score on his dps? Seems like some people just want to make it easier for players who have done less work perfecting their skills to get on the leaderboard. Seems like it's a movement to diminish what it takes to get on the leaderboard and hence devalue what it means to have that achievement. my profit from reselling items for absurd amounts of gold.

Fixed it for you.

If it's about the achievement, you'd still have that in the highest score for your account shown on the list. It's not about your spot on the list, so don't make it out to be.

It's ultimately about the reward emails which are ultimately about $$$.

If it truly was about the achievement, that's what the records leaderboards are for, as they don't get reset even when questionable mechanics get fixed most of the time.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

If they were to follow through with such a poor idea I expect those who get on the leaderboard would still feel great about their lessor achievement. My suggestion is put the effort into it and real the real reward of making the leaderboard instead of wasting time here complaining be said you cannot.

So glad you're looking out for the 'little people.'

It starts somewhere.

You didn't walk in the door with max scores either, and if you expect people to continue to beat their heads against the wall relative to ever increasing scores, you're even more self absorbed than you come across.

Again, there could be ranks or tiers. It would give the 'lesser' people something to strive for without the concern of breaking their ankles when falling off their high ***ing horse.

Get over yourself. If you're that badass, your rank shouldn't be in jeopardy, even with a single spot. If you really want to back up your skill (not the memorization one), have the rounds be more dynamic. They can manage RNG on recipe fragments and fish eggs, shouldn't be too hard to do that in wave based fights.

@Alcast obviously has what it takes, and doesn't seem the least bit concerned about it diminishing the achievement.

xMovingTarget · June 2015

I am totally down for that idea. Even though, it wouldnt help me to get out of ingame poverty

Merlin13KAGL · June 2015

xMovingTarget wrote: »

I am totally down for that idea. Even though, it wouldnt help me to get out of ingame poverty

@xMovingTarget , thank you for adding another big name to the list.

I suspect the up-and-comers would be willing to part with some of their proceeds to help donate to your cause in return for donating to theirs.

Daveheart · June 2015

EgoRush wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The simple fact is that most of your hardcore characters stay on the leaderboard because of the gear they've earned by getting on the leaderboard. Sub out that gear and I'm guessing you wouldn't be getting the scores you're currently getting.

I'm not questioning that you're more hardcore, more dedicated, or perhaps even better than average. You got on the leaderboard because of those things. You stay on the leaderboard because you got on the leaderboard early.

I completely disagree with you here. Not a single piece of the gear I use or my teammates drops exclusively from vDSA. The only item I use from vDSA rewards is the Master Restoration Staff and Master 2H Sword. I don't use healer, our tank doesn't use Footman. Archer's Mind and Destruction Mastery neither. I could drop the Master weapons and still comfortably get a top 10 score in arena. My gear is Martial Knowledge (easy to obtain), Torug Pact (craftable), Adroitness (vet dungeon CoH), Cyrodiil's Light (PvP) and the Master weapons. My position on the leaderboard is minimally (if at all) to do with the gear that dropped in vDSA.

Latter wrote: »

How many of them are templars? (budum tshh)

Rest assured we got NB, DKs, Sorcerer and Templars in leaderboard scores. We had a magicka NB DPS on one team that got 11.6K still. We have fun competing with all classes and still have DKs outperforming Templars in some cases.

Don't forget that you can still farm those Master's weapons on 20 point score runs that barely complete. They're not already legendary, but some rosin/alloys will fix that. Literally the only thing behind a wall is the gold jewelry.

EgoRush wrote: »

Love_Chunks wrote: »

Easy solution: a static minimum score for a weekly reward while still displaying top ranked scores. That way people who try hard enough can still get a reward and ppl who like to gloat can... well... gloat. Everyone wins.

I like this idea. Get over a minimum score (e.g. 9000 points) and you win a prize. Perhaps tiers of prizes for if you get >10K, 11K, 12K? Though that adds complication.
Locking people out is stupid. Some of us are training in arena and are constantly trying to improve our best time - lock me out and I may as well quit the game. That's why Xantaria was in arena so much; training new tactics, not just for the benefit of others getting a weekly time.
As for the lack of skill, by all means go into arena and get a 12K score if all it takes is nuking portals. I agree that portals should be immune to damage until adds fully spawn, but that doesn't mean the top teams are without skill. There's a reason only 2 guilds in the world (to my current best knowledge) can achieve over 12K scores.

One issue with locking it account wide is as Xantaria has mentioned - people can still be carried through. 3 good people with someone half-decent can still get a leadeboard score in arena. But I think locking it account wide is a step in the right direction. It would be fun to see which character I can get a better score with (though the answer to that is obvious for me...).

The other Swag, Gill, Louu, and Nifty team from Mundus recently broke 12 on the NA side (here's the out of date leaderboard as they were #2).

I don't have much of a problem with pairing down the board, but if that does happen, then tiered rewards or some other form of compensation should be introduced. I don't care whether that's three golds for the top two teams then two for the top 10, 1 gold + 1 purple to #25, etc or the normal leaderboad except account bound with a purple reward for any character who achieved a higher sccore than #100. I think there's some equitable solution the keep the top tier players engaged while not demoralizing those who aren't comfortable with the content yet.

RinaldoGandolphi · June 2015

I have always thought those ranking should be account based when it comes to the weekly. Why it wasn't set up this way to begin with I have no idea.

Look how long its taken to address the Emp farming issues in PVP, i see this as nothing more then weekly leader board farming which does nothing more then discourage other players from even bothering with it.

If your the best, you wil already get a high score, there is no reason for someone to hold multiple top spots in the weekly with different toons.

Does the NFL allow collusion with a few select teams to hold the Lombardi Trophy?

Does the NHL allow collusion among a select few to hold the Stanley Cup?

Of course not. In the spirit of fair and healthy competition, ways to farm, collude, or occupy multiple spots in a weekly with multiple toons should be discouraged and outright not allowed by ZOS.

This behavior is determinental to the spirit of the game and goes against the very nature of healthy and fair competition.

AhPook_Is_Here · June 2015

Rev Rielle wrote: »

It might be tricky to do; account-wide.
So, maybe they should firstly just extend the list to the top 100 group scores or something? Or keep a record of all the group scores, listed by score (Or group name, if anyone's made a name for their group, which no one seems to), and you mouse over it to see the names?

This is the best idea I have seen of the lot. Solves all problems without enrage aura.

idk · June 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have always thought those ranking should be account based when it comes to the weekly. Why it wasn't set up this way to begin with I have no idea.

Look how long its taken to address the Emp farming issues in PVP, i see this as nothing more then weekly leader board farming which does nothing more then discourage other players from even bothering with it.

If your the best, you wil already get a high score, there is no reason for someone to hold multiple top spots in the weekly with different toons.

Does the NFL allow collusion with a few select teams to hold the Lombardi Trophy?

Does the NHL allow collusion among a select few to hold the Stanley Cup?

Of course not. In the spirit of fair and healthy competition, ways to farm, collude, or occupy multiple spots in a weekly with multiple toons should be discouraged and outright not allowed by ZOS.

This behavior is determinental to the spirit of the game and goes against the very nature of healthy and fair competition.

It's fair as it is. All this thread is about is eliminating competition so those who have put less effort into the content and learning their skills have a better chance of making the leaderboard. It's all about eliminating the top players.

Addihul · June 2015

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

It's fair as it is. All this thread is about is eliminating competition so those who have put less effort into the content and learning their skills have a better chance of making the leaderboard. It's all about eliminating the top players.

Well, their ability to multi bank roll on weeklies as well as take top spots from others wanting their shot. No one wants to see the top players disappear. Your highest account toon score takes one listing and the lower is bumped off. Fixed

ZOS_UlyssesW · June 2015

Hi folks.
We have edited some comments in this thread. We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. We would, however, like to remind everyone that we do not allow threads or posts that call out individuals or guilds, making them the subject of public accusation, ridicule and/or shaming. Thank you for your understanding.

Alcast · June 2015

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hi folks.
We have edited some comments in this thread. We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. We would, however, like to remind everyone that we do not allow threads or posts that call out individuals or guilds, making them the subject of public accusation, ridicule and/or shaming. Thank you for your understanding.

I am a guildmember of Hodor as you clearly can see in my Signature you dont have to edit and delete the guildname....>.>

DenMoria · June 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I agree. Let's limit the best players to help those less skill players achieve leaderboard.

Because the alternative where a single player takes up 8 slots on the leaderboard is so much better.

It's better than telling the best players in the game they are not permitted to play more than once character.

It's better than needing the leaderboard into meaningless. Account lockouts would make ranks below 50 are of less value.

There is a better solution I have mentioned and that is a weekly lockout per character. Why, because the idea most of the leaderboard is locked up by small groups up people carrying their friends though. Not as much 8 characters per player. That is where you get 1 player holding a ranked spot during the week.

My solution doesn't water down the leaderboard yet opens it up more but only to those who have put the work in to get it done right. The account lockout solution merely makes the leaderboard a joke.

A joke? Meaningless? Give me a break dude. Sorry if the 100 best actual PLAYERS would be polluting your precious leaderboard rankings.

Can you define what "best" means?

Daveheart · June 2015

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I have always thought those ranking should be account based when it comes to the weekly. Why it wasn't set up this way to begin with I have no idea.

Look how long its taken to address the Emp farming issues in PVP, i see this as nothing more then weekly leader board farming which does nothing more then discourage other players from even bothering with it.

If your the best, you wil already get a high score, there is no reason for someone to hold multiple top spots in the weekly with different toons.

Does the NFL allow collusion with a few select teams to hold the Lombardi Trophy?

Does the NHL allow collusion among a select few to hold the Stanley Cup?

Of course not. In the spirit of fair and healthy competition, ways to farm, collude, or occupy multiple spots in a weekly with multiple toons should be discouraged and outright not allowed by ZOS.

This behavior is determinental to the spirit of the game and goes against the very nature of healthy and fair competition.

It's fair as it is. All this thread is about is eliminating competition so those who have put less effort into the content and learning their skills have a better chance of making the leaderboard. It's all about eliminating the top players.

Okay, so you're saying that the top players are trying to eliminate the top players?

Addihul · June 2015

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hi folks.
We have edited some comments in this thread. We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. We would, however, like to remind everyone that we do not allow threads or posts that call out individuals or guilds, making them the subject of public accusation, ridicule and/or shaming. Thank you for your understanding.

Yeah. The guy I mentioned is also in my guild and is a friend of mine. I wasn't being negative either, just referencing his quote basically. Oh well.

Emma_Overload · June 2015

i can't believe people are even arguing about this...

Leaderboards should be for PLAYERS, not TOONS.

Daveheart · June 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

i can't believe people are even arguing about this...

Leaderboards should be for PLAYERS, not TOONS.

Aren't you a solo-focused player?* Why would you remotely feel the need to interject?

*and if I have that wrong. sorry.

Paradox · June 2015

With the introduction of the Champion system and the clear imbalance it created between ACCOUNTS with a high amount of CP and those who lack a great number of them, leaderboards should be made account specific.

It will only benefit the majority, while the minority (the best players and best guilds) will still hold the top and still get their weekly gold item. The change will allow other players, those who may not be the absolute best at DPSing portals, to get marked on the boards and have a chance in hell at getting a gold item.

I have no issue with people running Trials on multiple characters. It makes total sense, but it really makes it so only a very select few people can get marked on the leaderboards. As much as these players deserve it for DPSing these portals so very well, I think it's in the best interest of the game and its PLAYERS to make the leaderboards ACCOUNT-SPECIFIC and NOT CHARACTER-SPECIFIC.

ThePeskyCrow · June 2015

Maybe highest scoring character on the account because right now its all about the gear farming and nothing else.

Lykurgis · June 2015

ThePeskyCrow wrote: »

Maybe highest scoring character on the account because right now its all about the gear farming and nothing else.

I buy that.

I mean, who wouldn't want 2-4 rings they can sell for 350k each, every time VDSA is the weekly right? And if you can control who else gets access to the most expensive BoE gear in the game by flooding the LBs with you and your buddies alts, why not right? Gotta pay for that XP potion addiction somehow.

I'm being sarcastic but thats actually not a bad plan lol.

Emma_Overload · June 2015

Daveheart wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

i can't believe people are even arguing about this...

Leaderboards should be for PLAYERS, not TOONS.

Aren't you a solo-focused player?* Why would you remotely feel the need to interject?

*and if I have that wrong. sorry.

Because it's stuff like this that creates a "caste" system that discourages players like me from even bothering with the competitive side of the game to begin with. Getting grouped for Trials is a big enough pain, but knowing that the game is RIGGED so that only a handful of guilds can stack the leaderboard with 8 alts per player just makes it even less appealing.

Ajaxduo · July 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Ok ZOS listen, the system atm is just idiotic.

EU VDSA Leaderboards:

280 Chars there
104 in pact
54 belong to [snip]
Approx on 17 accounts.

And there are other guilds that do the same on AD and DC.

The point i want to make is:

make them Account bound because like this now its ***, so only 1 Space is taken per Account, otherwise NEW PEOPLE (which you hopefully want ZOS) will not even try anymore because now they just get crushed and they have 0 chance to compete.

And guys with 8 Chars on the leaderboard will not be richy rich anymore. And more and more people grinding up more characters because there is NO CONTENT. So right now it will get worse and worse.

Completely agree, it's silly that it wasn't a single best score per account already. Also I agree with @Personofsecrets riding skill, alliance rank (eh) and achievements should be account wide, but thats another issue!

Artemiisia · July 2015

its so easy to make it so everybody gets want they want and gets a fair chance, both mains, alts and newbies.

make it so its how many times you actually complete it in the week instead, that way it will still be the best players that get it since they can still do it many times in less time it takes for newbies to do it. But they will still have to work for it to get it on all their chars.

This will make it so it will be more prizes for top 100ish people and not just 40 people with alts.

and I actually love the fact its the same people that are doing this, that is against the way the leading board is right now thats also posting it.

Aldruin · July 2015

Lykurgis wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

VDSA has effectively become a marathon sprint. I don't care about being on the leaderboard because I know that skill isnt as essential a factor anymore.

Now just hold on a second there...it takes massive skill to spam jabs/steel tornado where the portals spawn mobs and have them die before ever showing up. THAT is the essence of skill and engaging encounter design right?

/end sarcasm

IMO, the entire PvE leaderboard endgame can be summed up 2 words: RAPID MANEUVERS

So why aren't you in top leaderboard if you are so all-knowing? /sarcasm end

Anyway great suggestion alcast, I personally know people that have 7 characters everytime VDSA is weekly and they literally get millions in one week.

OrphanHelgen · July 2015

I am one of them who dont even want to try to waste my time getting on the leaderboards because of this. Im agree with account bound leaderboard.

andy_s · July 2015

@Alcast Xrosha is gonna hate you for this suggestion

but can't disagree, more than a half of leaderboards are 1-2 man teams.

Fecius · July 2015

Good point! I agree with it.

But don't be so envy! Xrosha is a good guy!

Don't be frustrated so much that you have only 3 chars in weekly vDSA leaderbords!

I have just one so far and I'm ok

EgoRush · July 2015

Daveheart wrote: »

The other Swag, Gill, Louu, and Nifty team from Mundus recently broke 12 on the NA side

Oh congrats to the team on NA side for breaking the 12K mark

we're going for world record maaaaybe this evening or at the weekend. Buffless 12.2K run is the target! Wish us luck...And you're right about farming the master weapons - you don't need a weekly to do that heh.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I disagree that the point of this thread is the get rid of the top players. @Alcast is currently sitting pretty on >12K in arena from a run that had ONLY the defensive scroll bonus 1 for the first few stages...make the account wide change and he will still be in the top 3 every week for arena. The point is that those of us with multiple characters can farm the prizes and stop quite a lot of other people ranking. Getting ranked is a bit of an ego boost and feels great, but the reward and gold is better. Our whole arena team is in agreement with this despite the fact we had 1 person with I think 6 characters on the leaderboard. I had 2 characters on the board well over the 11K mark and I wouldn't mind at all if my weekly score only counted for whichever toon was higher