Nerf Stamina DPS and It's Bugs

Personofsecrets

Bugs

1. "Sharpened Mace is bugged atm, giving you over 70% armor penetration instead of 17%."
2. "Use the Double Potion Trick: You can use a regular Potion of Stamina or Panacea of Stamina without triggering the Cooldown of a Panacea of Weapon Power."
3. "I used to use Evil Hunter because you get Stamina back on proc but atm, this morph is bugged and if you kill a few undeads/deadra with this buff enabled, the buffs duration is basicly forever." > Camouflaged hunter bugged.
4. "Ravager procs acts normal, unless you use caltrops. With Caltrops you can have it up 90% of the time. According to Zenimax Caltrops can't be considered as mele damage (they fixed Imperial passive proc from caltrops), so following these logic they also shud fix Revenger proc from caltrops."


Overtuned

1. Wrecking blow hits silly hard.
2. Biting Jabs hits silly hard.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please pass this along.

Lynx7386

1. Unconfirmed, maybe some proof would help with this claim. I notice no real difference in overall damage between my greatsword and maul, and in most cases - especially against light armored opponents - the greatsword ends up doing more damage.

2. Havent seen this before, but it does sound like a bug. I'm curious, though, if the same can be done with a potion of magicka/spell power.

3. Cant comment on this, I dont bother with evil hunter in pvp, not enough use for it over my other abilities.


1. Wrecking blow is supposed to hit hard, it has a charge time equivalent to a heavy attack. Roll out of the way or block it.

2. Biting jabs slows the templar during the channel duration, and essentially gives everyone it hits free CC immunity, stop complaining.

3. Sets are supposed to be useful.



Sounds like the usual case of crying because you got killed. It happens, respawn and get back in the fight. Adjust your tactics to counter your opponent, not everyone can be fought in the same way and you cant rely on spamming a few abilities to deal with a player opponent; (most) players are too smart for that and will put you on your arse in short order.

Personofsecrets

Lynx7386 wrote: »

1. Unconfirmed, maybe some proof would help with this claim. I notice no real difference in overall damage between my greatsword and maul, and in most cases - especially against light armored opponents - the greatsword ends up doing more damage.

2. Havent seen this before, but it does sound like a bug. I'm curious, though, if the same can be done with a potion of magicka/spell power.

3. Cant comment on this, I dont bother with evil hunter in pvp, not enough use for it over my other abilities.


1. Wrecking blow is supposed to hit hard, it has a charge time equivalent to a heavy attack. Roll out of the way or block it.

2. Biting jabs slows the templar during the channel duration, and essentially gives everyone it hits free CC immunity, stop complaining.

3. Sets are supposed to be useful.



Sounds like the usual case of crying because you got killed. It happens, respawn and get back in the fight. Adjust your tactics to counter your opponent, not everyone can be fought in the same way and you cant rely on spamming a few abilities to deal with a player opponent; (most) players are too smart for that and will put you on your arse in short order.

if you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. Anything that is overtuned can be justified because of muh metagame or muh drawbacks.

Is wrecking blow really supposed to hit harder than the executioner?
Does biting jabs 'channel duration' really matter against mobs that can't even move yet?
Does a set have to be overtuned, possibly being procd up to "98%" of the time, to be useful?

Get good.

Lynx7386

Is wrecking blow really supposed to hit harder than the executioner?
Yes. Executioner is instant, wrecking blow is not.

Does biting jabs 'channel duration' really matter against mobs that can't even move yet?
What it does against mobs, and what it does against players, are two entirely different things.

Does a set have to be overtuned, possibly being procd up to "98%" of the time, to be useful?
Depends on what the set is intended for and what that proc does. In this case I dont think it's a problem.

Akavir_Sentinel

I can confirm the Evil Hunter/Camouflaged Hunter bug. I have this on three of my characters. They all now have permanent Evil Hunter/Camouflaged Hunter. It's active as soon as I log in, and it never needs to be re-applied.

Personofsecrets

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Is wrecking blow really supposed to hit harder than the executioner?
Yes. Executioner is instant, wrecking blow is not.

Does biting jabs 'channel duration' really matter against mobs that can't even move yet?
What it does against mobs, and what it does against players, are two entirely different things.

Does a set have to be overtuned, possibly being procd up to "98%" of the time, to be useful?
Depends on what the set is intended for and what that proc does. In this case I dont think it's a problem.

Reflective scales was MEANT to work against an entire raid.

Lynx7386

Obviously not, or they wouldnt have reduced it to a maximum of 4 reflected projectiles per cast.

MCMancub

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Bugs

1. "Sharpened Mace is bugged atm, giving you over 70% armor penetration instead of 17%."

You're taking this from here, which isn't any official source. Even the "source" he provides doesn't prove anything since you can't know a boss's armor. It doesn't even show anything remotely leading to his claim.

EDIT: How does he know the extra damage he's getting is the result of extra armor penetration and not simply low armor? See how his claim makes literally no sense?

tplink3r1

Aiming jabs is hard when you take ping into account, stop complaining.
Damage from stealth is the problem.

MCMancub

Personofsecrets wrote: »

3. Ravager Set procs silly often.

It's supposed to. It's one of the best and hardest to obtain armor sets for stamina DPS in the entire game.

EDIT: Also, the amount of weapon damage it gives is only about 200-300 more than what Hunding's Rage gives, and that's up 100% of the time without having to be proc'ed. The difference is I didn't have spend weeks or months in PvP to obtain that set. I just crafted it in about 15 minutes.

Personofsecrets

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

3. Ravager Set procs silly often.

It's supposed to. It's one of the best and hardest to obtain armor sets for stamina DPS in the entire game.

EDIT: Also, the amount of weapon damage it gives is only about 200-300 more than what Hunding's Rage gives, and that's up 100% of the time without having to be proc'ed. The difference is I didn't have spend weeks or months in PvP to obtain that set. I just crafted it in about 15 minutes.

"hard to obtain"

lol

Personofsecrets

I guess these purple warlock rings should proc every 5 seconds.

Akavir_Sentinel

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

3. Ravager Set procs silly often.

It's supposed to. It's one of the best and hardest to obtain armor sets for stamina DPS in the entire game.

EDIT: Also, the amount of weapon damage it gives is only about 200-300 more than what Hunding's Rage gives, and that's up 100% of the time without having to be proc'ed. The difference is I didn't have spend weeks or months in PvP to obtain that set. I just crafted it in about 15 minutes.

"hard to obtain"

lol

^ This. Even as a PvE casual, all I have to do is pay gold for AP to some no-lifer on Thornblade and get the entire set.

MCMancub

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

3. Ravager Set procs silly often.

It's supposed to. It's one of the best and hardest to obtain armor sets for stamina DPS in the entire game.

EDIT: Also, the amount of weapon damage it gives is only about 200-300 more than what Hunding's Rage gives, and that's up 100% of the time without having to be proc'ed. The difference is I didn't have spend weeks or months in PvP to obtain that set. I just crafted it in about 15 minutes.

"hard to obtain"

lol

^ This. Even as a PvE casual, all I have to do is pay gold for AP to some no-lifer on Thornblade and get the entire set.

And the entire set would still cost over 500k, dwarfing the cost of the next-tier-down set.

Akavir_Sentinel

MCMancub wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

3. Ravager Set procs silly often.

It's supposed to. It's one of the best and hardest to obtain armor sets for stamina DPS in the entire game.

EDIT: Also, the amount of weapon damage it gives is only about 200-300 more than what Hunding's Rage gives, and that's up 100% of the time without having to be proc'ed. The difference is I didn't have spend weeks or months in PvP to obtain that set. I just crafted it in about 15 minutes.

"hard to obtain"

lol

^ This. Even as a PvE casual, all I have to do is pay gold for AP to some no-lifer on Thornblade and get the entire set.

And the entire set would still cost over 500k, dwarfing the cost of the next-tier-down set.

Every piece of VR14 gear on the elite vendor costs the exact same amount of AP....... No set is more expensive than the other, except for if a player wants to charge more for it.

Personofsecrets

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Obviously not, or they wouldnt have reduced it to a maximum of 4 reflected projectiles per cast.

Then obviously the things I point out shouldn't currently be the way they are if they are changes. I'll message you back when there is re-balancing so that I can inform you how things were always 'meant' to be.

Alcast

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Bugs

1. "Sharpened Mace is bugged atm, giving you over 70% armor penetration instead of 17%."
2. "Use the Double Potion Trick: You can use a regular Potion of Stamina or Panacea of Stamina without triggering the Cooldown of a Panacea of Weapon Power."
3. "I used to use Evil Hunter because you get Stamina back on proc but atm, this morph is bugged and if you kill a few undeads/deadra with this buff enabled, the buffs duration is basicly forever." > Camouflaged hunter bugged.

Overtuned

1. Wrecking blow hits silly hard.
2. Biting Jabs hits silly hard.
3. Ravager Set procs silly often.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please pass this along.

1. Nirnhoned+Apprentice causing the same bug.
2. that is buggy, but in this game there is no more resource management anyway LOL, just stack recovery and voila. With my CP and redguard passive I almost gain Stamina by hitting mobs ridonculus.
3. Bugged or tooltip is wrong.

There are so much bugs in the game that favour both magicka and stamina builds, i could continue my list forever...

Overtuned?

1. Wblow is 1s cast. Dodge it
2. Walk 2 steps left and jabs will not hit you anymore. It already got nerfed from 170% to 140% and the knockback gives you free happy CC immunity
3. It has a 8% chance to proc on melee hit and lasts for 10s.

MCMancub

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

3. Ravager Set procs silly often.

It's supposed to. It's one of the best and hardest to obtain armor sets for stamina DPS in the entire game.

EDIT: Also, the amount of weapon damage it gives is only about 200-300 more than what Hunding's Rage gives, and that's up 100% of the time without having to be proc'ed. The difference is I didn't have spend weeks or months in PvP to obtain that set. I just crafted it in about 15 minutes.

"hard to obtain"

lol

^ This. Even as a PvE casual, all I have to do is pay gold for AP to some no-lifer on Thornblade and get the entire set.

And the entire set would still cost over 500k, dwarfing the cost of the next-tier-down set.

Every piece of VR14 gear on the elite vendor costs the exact same amount of AP....... No set is more expensive than the other, except for if a player wants to charge more for it.

That's exactly my point. Your options for obtaining Ravagers are to either farm the AP yourself (weeks of PvP) or pay through the nose for it. Compared to Hunding's Rage, a similar set which is leagues easier to obtain, why shouldn't Ravager's be better? The OP is claiming Ravager's is just outright way too strong, but in reality it isn't that much stronger than similar sets. My argument is that because it's harder to obtain than those similar sets, it should be slightly better.

Personofsecrets

Alcast wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Bugs

1. "Sharpened Mace is bugged atm, giving you over 70% armor penetration instead of 17%."
2. "Use the Double Potion Trick: You can use a regular Potion of Stamina or Panacea of Stamina without triggering the Cooldown of a Panacea of Weapon Power."
3. "I used to use Evil Hunter because you get Stamina back on proc but atm, this morph is bugged and if you kill a few undeads/deadra with this buff enabled, the buffs duration is basicly forever." > Camouflaged hunter bugged.

Overtuned

1. Wrecking blow hits silly hard.
2. Biting Jabs hits silly hard.
3. Ravager Set procs silly often.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please pass this along.

1. Nirnhoned+Apprentice causing the same bug.
2. that is buggy, but in this game there is no more resource management anyway LOL, just stack recovery and voila. With my CP and redguard passive I almost gain Stamina by hitting mobs ridonculus.
3. Bugged or tooltip is wrong.

There are so much bugs in the game i could continue my list forever....

Overtuned?

1. Wblow is 1s cast. Dodge it
2. Walk 2 steps left and jabs will not hit you anymore. It already got nerfed from 170% to 140% and the knockback gives you free happy CC immunity
3. It has a 8% chance to proc on melee hit.

fyi, pvp isn't the only game mode...

Personofsecrets

MCMancub wrote: »

That's exactly my point. Your options for obtaining Ravagers are to either farm the AP yourself (weeks of PvP) or pay through the nose for it. Compared to Hunding's Rage, a similar set which is leagues easier to obtain, why shouldn't Ravager's be better? The OP is claiming Ravager's is just outright way too strong, but in reality it isn't that much stronger than similar sets. My argument is that because it's harder to obtain than those similar sets, it should be slightly better.

A. It's not hard to get
B. Things being harder to get doesn't necessarily justify them being overtuned.

lots of things are hard to get and they aren't going to be buffed because of my point b.

MCMancub

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I guess these purple warlock rings should proc every 5 seconds.

Are you really suggesting there's no difference between gaining a resource and gaining damage?

Personofsecrets

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I guess these purple warlock rings should proc every 5 seconds.

Are you really suggesting there's no difference between gaining a resource and gaining damage?

no idea what you mean. read my last post.

MCMancub

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

That's exactly my point. Your options for obtaining Ravagers are to either farm the AP yourself (weeks of PvP) or pay through the nose for it. Compared to Hunding's Rage, a similar set which is leagues easier to obtain, why shouldn't Ravager's be better? The OP is claiming Ravager's is just outright way too strong, but in reality it isn't that much stronger than similar sets. My argument is that because it's harder to obtain than those similar sets, it should be slightly better.

A. It's not hard to get
B. Things being harder to get doesn't necessarily justify them being overtuned.

lots of things are hard to get and they aren't going to be buffed because of my point b.

1. No, it isn't hard to get. Relatively, it's significantly harder to get than other sets.
2. Things being harder to get does justify them being stronger, but Ravager's isn't overtuned. You have to proc the extra weapon damage, and it's only 200-300 more than on much easier to obtain sets.

I feel like I'm repeating myself here because someone can't read and understand simple logic.

Akavir_Sentinel

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Bugs

1. "Sharpened Mace is bugged atm, giving you over 70% armor penetration instead of 17%."
2. "Use the Double Potion Trick: You can use a regular Potion of Stamina or Panacea of Stamina without triggering the Cooldown of a Panacea of Weapon Power."
3. "I used to use Evil Hunter because you get Stamina back on proc but atm, this morph is bugged and if you kill a few undeads/deadra with this buff enabled, the buffs duration is basicly forever." > Camouflaged hunter bugged.

Overtuned

1. Wrecking blow hits silly hard.
2. Biting Jabs hits silly hard.
3. Ravager Set procs silly often.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please pass this along.

1. Nirnhoned+Apprentice causing the same bug.
2. that is buggy, but in this game there is no more resource management anyway LOL, just stack recovery and voila. With my CP and redguard passive I almost gain Stamina by hitting mobs ridonculus.
3. Bugged or tooltip is wrong.

There are so much bugs in the game i could continue my list forever....

Overtuned?

1. Wblow is 1s cast. Dodge it
2. Walk 2 steps left and jabs will not hit you anymore. It already got nerfed from 170% to 140% and the knockback gives you free happy CC immunity
3. It has a 8% chance to proc on melee hit.

fyi, pvp isn't the only game mode...

QFT. PvE has been nerfed countless times because of PvP whines.

MCMancub

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I guess these purple warlock rings should proc every 5 seconds.

Are you really suggesting there's no difference between gaining a resource and gaining damage?

no idea what you mean. read my last post.

You said that because Ravager's procs easily that Warlock's should do the same. But their procs are entirely different. One adds a resource, the other adds damage. Neither item is out of place. Both do what they're supposed to just fine.

Personofsecrets

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

That's exactly my point. Your options for obtaining Ravagers are to either farm the AP yourself (weeks of PvP) or pay through the nose for it. Compared to Hunding's Rage, a similar set which is leagues easier to obtain, why shouldn't Ravager's be better? The OP is claiming Ravager's is just outright way too strong, but in reality it isn't that much stronger than similar sets. My argument is that because it's harder to obtain than those similar sets, it should be slightly better.

A. It's not hard to get
B. Things being harder to get doesn't necessarily justify them being overtuned.

lots of things are hard to get and they aren't going to be buffed because of my point b.

1. No, it isn't hard to get. Relatively, it's significantly harder to get than other sets.
2. Things being harder to get does justify them being stronger, but Ravager's isn't overtuned. You have to proc the extra weapon damage, and it's only 200-300 more than on much easier to obtain sets.

I feel like I'm repeating myself here because someone can't read and understand simple logic.

you are confusing 'have to proc' with 'will proc automatically given totally normal play'

Personofsecrets

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I guess these purple warlock rings should proc every 5 seconds.

Are you really suggesting there's no difference between gaining a resource and gaining damage?

no idea what you mean. read my last post.

You said that because Ravager's procs easily that Warlock's should do the same. But their procs are entirely different. One adds a resource, the other adds damage. Neither item is out of place. Both do what they're supposed to just fine.

no, i said that items being hard to get, such as warlock rings, doesn't justify them being overtuned. If it did, then I demand warlock set be buffed proportionally to how hard it is to get. Purple warlock rings can cost a million gold, so do the math that figures out the buff it should get.

Alcast

If you are having magicka issues, then you are doing something realllllllllly wrong.
Ele drain and you should be up 100% magicka 24/7

Tavore1138

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

That's exactly my point. Your options for obtaining Ravagers are to either farm the AP yourself (weeks of PvP) or pay through the nose for it. Compared to Hunding's Rage, a similar set which is leagues easier to obtain, why shouldn't Ravager's be better? The OP is claiming Ravager's is just outright way too strong, but in reality it isn't that much stronger than similar sets. My argument is that because it's harder to obtain than those similar sets, it should be slightly better.

A. It's not hard to get
B. Things being harder to get doesn't necessarily justify them being overtuned.

lots of things are hard to get and they aren't going to be buffed because of my point b.

1. No, it isn't hard to get. Relatively, it's significantly harder to get than other sets.
2. Things being harder to get does justify them being stronger, but Ravager's isn't overtuned. You have to proc the extra weapon damage, and it's only 200-300 more than on much easier to obtain sets.

I feel like I'm repeating myself here because someone can't read and understand simple logic.

you are confusing 'have to proc' with 'will proc automatically given totally normal play'

It is an 8% chance to proc, to make it proc a lot you have to build for it and in doing so sacrifice ability slots to certain ones that raise the number of chances you get to get that 8% to trigger... That is exactly what a build should do. As others point out Hundings or Morag Tong ot Dreugh King give somehat less of a damage boost but are eithe on 100% of the time or come with additional buffs when procing.

The potion thing is not cool though and, if genuine, neither is the sharpened bug.

Wrecking blow is a pita but not OP imo.

But while on overtuning... should we bring up some of the magicka ones?

Ffastyl

Wait...
Is this a nerf Templars thread!?

By Zenithar, we are finally OP!

Personofsecrets

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But while on overtuning... should we bring up some of the magicka ones?

by all means