Anyone else waiting for ESO To take the path of WoW (not become WoW 2)

AngryNord

demendred wrote: »

Play ff14 if you want a 'wow experience'.

Wouldn't WoW be the best game to play if one wants a 'WoW experience'? :P

nimander99

This is for all you imurshun folks out there... here's a real reason to worry, if they add a new race it would be against a long established set of playable races. This will never happen, and if it does, we are done.

Gidorick

Oh, I know that Sload are more...

From Redguard:

Being a race that loathes adventure, I could see a young Sload that ventures out on it's own being shunned by its society and would normally die. Those that DO survive become stronger and do not become the gelatinous mounds that we all know and detest. Since they are gastropods, maybe these adventuring Sloads grow protective shell plates around their body giving them a more structured form, allowing them to use the armor of men and mer.

Just some suppositions. My point is, there could be lore written to justify the form and presence of a Sload adventurer.

Oh, and Sloads done ride horses because they don't need to move that much. They kind of just slink about. They CAN teleport though!

ElricFrancis

jircris11 wrote: »

i don't see anymore playable races being added seeing how all the ones from past TES games are here already. I could see new maps and such, no lvl increase maybe some new armors and crafts though.

still want snow elves playable.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

I don't think ESO should attempt or even consider adding new playable races and just stay within the template of what is consistent with the lore spanning the entire franchise. To suddenly start crowbaring races in left and right would degrade decades of established history and just come off as plain cheesy. There's plenty of 'species' types in LOTRO but you don't see Jorthkyn or Dourhands becoming playable races, do you? No, because it'd be a colossal middle finger to the mythos Tolkien and his son have established for years.

For me, I don't see ESO going 'WoW". To do that they would have to completely gut all of their established lore and thoroughly ruin all of their major characters. Oh Molag Bal isn't the Prince of *** and Enslavement, he's just trying to save the world from his more unscrupulous siblings. Dragons weren't terrible dictators, they were misunderstood and 'forced' to be evil. Talos of Atmora wasn't Nordic Jesus, he was a liar and a schemer and a manipulator. Barenziah wasn't a wise and gifted queen, she was a ***. Sheogorath wasn't bat-*** crazy, he was 'special'.

I spent the better part of an hour last night skimming over character profiles on a WoW-based wiki, just to see what had happened to major characters I remembered from when last I played. Characters like Sylvanas, Anduin, Lorthemar, Tyrande, and I was very disappointed that over the course of the recent expansion, almost NONE of them have had any pivotal story updates since the last expansion, or even the novels as penned by Richard A. *Haack*. WoW has gutted these characters and twisted them in such a way they no longer resemble anything worthy of interest or sympathy. My having burned my entire collection of WoW-based novels, manga, and comics was entirely vindicated by having pored through what passes for a 'deep and engaging story' in WoD. There's nothing ground-breaking. They're just aping their older successes with the games that made them famous rather than try and push the envelope, and I refuse to pay for such smut ever again.

To me ESO has a much more intricate lore structure, and is less subject to change. For anyone who's a lore buff, if there's a war that took place in a year, they say who participated, who was killed, who won, where it happened. In the game you can see these classic battlefields, you can even talk with some notable figures on the account of them being spirits or incredibly long-lived (elves). For me the icing on the cake lore-wise was when you got to meet a doe-eyed innocent Elenwen on Auridon during Gold, and seeing the impact of the resultant quest, hearing the subtle change in her voice, the hardening of her heart, and you know "this is where it begins". I swear she had the same voice actor from Skyrim too. That made me squee.

ESO is able to take liberties in regards to timelines because there are these gaps they can fill in, but this is what ESO is doing, filling in the gaps. Ada Soom Dir-Kamal DID invade Tamriel, and DID almost steamroll the Ebonheart Pact provinces. The Maomer DID plot to invade the Summerset Isles. Orcs DID lose their homeland and are trying to reclaim it.

Which is a far cry from what WoW is doing, which is incessant retcons of retcons, and crapping out novels that completely ruin their own stories and are comprised of nothing but recaps of recaps. I swear 2/3 of the last book I got, War Crimes, which was a present from a friend, ended up being rehashed from previous novels, and the ending was the biggest *** you I'd ever seen in my life from a franchise I loved. I hope ESO doesn't do that, doesn't go down that road, because like I said, I was so angry at WoW I burned over two dozen books in disgust, and I refused to buy any more of their products.

FancyTuna8

Fartman wrote: »

You seriously know this much lore about a video game? I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and I know I run around with a sword or whatever and kill stuff... I dunno how people get this in to a game. They can expand... Look at what FFXIV just released... and why does everyone compare MMORPG's to WoW? It didn't start the genre. I wish games like this didn't have so much lore, because it would be easier to add stuff in, because people like me wouldn't even know the difference, they'd just enjoy the game for what it is. Not get caught up in some make believe World, and say stuff can't be in a made up World. because in that made up world, this made up thing didn't exist then... I've ran in to that on this board when discussing a few things, and it's quite annoying.

I like a lot of the suggestions you have made on the forums, but I don't know why you would try to make people feel bad/inferior for wanting to know more about something? If it is just fun to hack away at monsters, good for you. But giving someone a purple nurple and calling them "NERD!" for wanting to construct "why" is shallow.

You don't know how people get this into a game?
Not to take the fun façade off, but we as a society are trying to find a way to entertain ourselves until the bread and circuses run out, because we all know we're in that stage of our society but don't want to face it and do anything about it. We spend an inordinate, unthinkable amount of time on entertainment, more than past generations could have conceived of, and it doesn't matter if your encounters with entertainment are numerous and shallow or few and deep.

To sum up: don't throw rocks from your glass house, your level of interest in an entertainment may look like "this in to a game."

jircris11

Gidorick wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

i don't see anymore playable races being added seeing how all the ones from past TES games are here already. I could see new maps and such, no lvl increase maybe some new armors and crafts though.

I would LOVE to see other playable races. I think if ESO lasts long enough we will see some added. More specifically though, I would like to see variations in the races that we have. Both Khajiit and Argonian are WAY underrepresented in ESO (and Elder Scrolls as a whole.) I have made threads about these two beast races here:

• http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/147221/concept-for-a-future-argonian-centric-update
• http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/141710/suggestions-for-an-eventual-khajiit-centric-update/p1

Orcs could have additional options also to encompass the Wood, Iron, and Tribal Orc racial differences.

variations of khajiit and such i COULD see happening. but a new race i do not. though who knows.

FancyTuna8

I think op's suggestion boxes ESO into a corner--so if this game is around for 3 years, they will be 'warcrafting' themselves if they add new races, classes, etc...?
I'm pretty sure that the game designers could find ways to implement other races--Akiviri could be a major expansion/second release, for example. Snow elves could be something you pay crowns to play, and even then you must keep your heritage secret. You might even have an extended quest line (like the Guilds) that unlocks as your secret becomes suspected/known. It isn't as if snow elves look SO different from other races. This would be an undesirable quest, filled with npc sneak attacks trying to capture/kill/dissect you, and a few kind souls trying to shelter you and keep you alive. No faction, at least not until you unlock Cyrodil, and you could travel freely between all areas (which would be necessary, because your infamy would result in eventual constant hunting of you until a sufficient cooldown period while you stay out of that area.) In other words, it would be a different type of playstyle, as you wouldn't have the main quest line, but would instead try to mix all areas, constantly on the run.
Falmer, goblins, etc, could only be playable as something with its own area, sort of like playing the 'monsters'. Bipedal, human-like daedra could be playable, but would require the same type of play as the snow elves. I understand some would hate this, but it wouldn't be lore-breaking, to me. You've already got everyone playing this game with a princess complex (world was made for me, I'm the big hero/focus of it all), so people wanting to be the rare race, or the very foreign race, doesn't seem any different to me. I'm not opposed to ZOS finding creative ways to mix things up a bit. I like having a game world with strong lore, but I also don't like the staleness that can develop. If they came up with a cool mer-people race that could fit into existing lore, or if sea elves launched a major invasion in the game and then became a new/changed area to play as well as a playable race, that kind of stuff interests me.
Now, I suppose if I see 3 dryads walking through daggerfall and exchanging emotes with 2 minotaurs and a zombie, that might be my level of breaking lore.

Stories-Bones-Tell

Playable falamer please

Trollwut

WoW has a nice gameplay and I played it a couple of time.
But over the years it grew a little bit boring. Still nice, but boring.

I tried some other MMOs, but these WoW mechanics always let me reminisque of it so it went boring soon.

I love ESO to not be WoW. It's a fresh wind on the genre.

OtarTheMad

Jared_lindsey86_ESO wrote: »

Potential playable races:

Possibly.
Snow elves for the DC
Imga for the Dominion
Lilmothitt for the pact

Unlikely candidates;
Centaurs
goblins
lamiae
Maomer

Not happening:
Ayleids
Sload
Dwemer
Dovah
Dremora and a few others

Okay so while I like the idea about Snow Elves being in the game, hell just a ruin or two (don't even have to be enterable) would be amazing... it won't happen. Even though I do believe what Bethesda wrote in Gelebor's dialogue that some others survived I just don't think it would make sense right now. For doubters though it is completely possible hundreds of Snow Elves are in hiding at the other Temples that Gelebor mentioned existed and are just used to isolation by now. Most commoners might mistake them as High Elves so nothing changes. They just wouldn't be in DC though, definitely would be AD I'd think with how their society mirrored High Elves so much. Plus by siding with AD they could just claim to be High Elves when asked and no one would question it since Snow Elves are all but forgotten even in the Second Era,

Imga, I like the idea and it is believable however I am surprised we haven't seen them since Valenwood is huge in the AD storyline and that's where they live.

If ZOS were to add any new playable races beyond Imga I am going to guess it would be: Sload, Maomer, Naga, any/all races from Akavir in a Akaviri based expansion.

Other races could have existed around this time according to lore but little to nothing to known about them: Orma (apparently blind), Horwalli, Yespest but I doubt they'd be introduced.

Storm_knight22

AngryNord wrote: »

Jared_lindsey86_ESO wrote: »

Potential playable races:

Possibly.
Snow elves for the DC
Imga for the Dominion
Lilmothitt for the pact

The only two remaining Snow Elves live in an underground cave complex in Skyrim. I'm kinda baffled as to how you'll find them 1) possible as a playable race and 2) a part of DC

Actually hundreds of Snow Elves survived in the chantry of Auri-el until a raid by The Betrayed (the blind Falmer) killed all save two. If there is one pocket of existence there could be others.

They would be with the DC because of geography and lore. Snow elves lived in the North and its possible that a settlement survives in the Wrothgarian mountains. I think they would be more likely to side with the Manmer and Orsimer than with the Nords. then again unlikely alliances seem to be common at this time.

Tre_775

Noomfy-Mop wrote: »

And when I say "go WoW on itself" I mean release DLC that introduces new races, new abilities, new questing areas AANND (most importantly ) increase the level cap by 10.

Yes, but I'm sure you know that an expac like that only comes out every few years. Keeping that in mind I do hope that ESO has long-term playability. My tendency has always been to find a game that I really like and then stick too it for several years, especially if it's lore rich. WoW and the ES games (taken as a whole) have always been the games that I go back to. I'm still playing LotRO on occasion after 8 years.

I think that kind of extended life cycle was what what you were referring to in your post. Not that the game become a WoW clone, but that it follows a similar successful path that always gives us something new.

Storm_knight22

Actually on second thought I don't think the Snow elves would be on anyone's side. After all If you're clinging on for survival in Vaults....errrrr I mean temples. Are you really going to rally your people to fight for someone else's cause? While Snow Elves might be possible I think they would be like the Imperial race. Lone adventurers not bound to any particular alliance.

Ffastyl

Noomfy-Mop wrote: »

I'm reading a lot of people are against increasing lvl cap.. Why's that??
I think new armors etc. would be a good idea as @jircris11 mentioned but I do think that increasing lvl cap would be "palatable" for the masses and someone who's lvl 50 might not like or want new armor.
I'm seeing a lot of good ideas however I do think increasing lvl cap would be the easiest option for them since they don't need to introduce new races and explain how they all of a sudden came to being or how they discovered new lands etc.

Increasing the level cap creates a gear grind, which many people do not want. It's a treadmill that WoW uses, and making WoW 2.0 typically fails. Veteran Ranks are a long term gear grind and we can see how the player base has responded to that.

For my personal take, aside from creating a gear grind, leaving the level cap at 50 creates a horizontal progression post-main-story. Every Veteran zone and DLC zone becomes level 50; there is no need to worry about out levelling or under levelling content, allowing the player to genuinely explore without being penalized (by over levelling). The first five zones were on tracks, but everything else is totally open. And that's what (single-player) Elder Scrolls games are about: uninhibited exploration.

As for post-50, aside from opening up more than two-thirds of the game, there is the Champion System to see a constant progression of character strength to coincide with player skill growth. That parallel growth of player skill and character strength is what makes the Champion System a good system in my eyes.

In terms of copying WoW, I invoke Extra Credits+2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ56Kia8dTU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtvrPTbQ_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

edit: Added more relevant videos.

The_Sadist

Stories-Bones-Tell wrote: »

Playable falamer please

If they do allow Falmer as a playable race the screen should be entirely black, because you know, blind and all.

Gidorick

Thanks for posting those @Ffastyl. I really like extra credits but they really have a knack for explaining what is wrong but never having any real solutions.

As for your comment on open DLC for post 50 gameplay... we're going to have that anyway, right? Regardless of current level, players will be able to play ESO DLC because everyone will be leveled to the DLC. This makes it so that players will be able to play all "end game" releases whenever they want, not just during end game.

Personally, I really think people are going to get bored of grinding out champion points. People LIKE that little level number to go up. They like to progress... but as Extra Credits point out, the power creep and gear creep can ruin the game if not mitigated properly.

ZOS has a big job ahead of them.

Ffastyl

I had forgotten about that aspect of the DLC, @Gidorick . Then my point about horizontal progression only applies to the Veteran zones and Cadwell's Almanac.

I think Champion Points can substitute levelling with some tweaking. Particularly the decrease in experience required for the first 400 or so mentioned by the Devs when discussing addressing the power gap. Making the "GAINED A CHAMPION POINT" message appear more often initially will give the feeling of levelling up; perhaps the level up effects can be played when gaining a point to add to the effect. Then the experience required increases per point and the system differentiates from levelling.

Demon's/Dark Souls has a levelling system similar to what I have described, where every subsequent level up costs more and more souls (experience) with ever decreasing returns as the individual stats rose (most stats stopped giving notable returns at 50, out of 99). In those games, the first 125 to 150 level ups are considered important, with every level up afterwards giving returns most players deem negligible (I personally level up whenever I have the souls; nearing level 300).

mrskinskull

Fartman wrote: »

You seriously know this much lore about a video game? I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and I know I run around with a sword or whatever and kill stuff... I dunno how people get this in to a game. They can expand... Look at what FFXIV just released... and why does everyone compare MMORPG's to WoW? It didn't start the genre. I wish games like this didn't have so much lore, because it would be easier to add stuff in, because people like me wouldn't even know the difference, they'd just enjoy the game for what it is. Not get caught up in some make believe World, and say stuff can't be in a made up World. because in that made up world, this made up thing didn't exist then... I've ran in to that on this board when discussing a few things, and it's quite annoying.

Its easy to add stuff BECAUSE it has so much lore. ESO has a deep bench. The op is pointing that out.

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Since you are not a Lore Master, I don't see your suggestion ever happening. Thank Jebus.

Zavinus

A sloath? Never heard of those things.

They look disgusting.

Theosis

I stopped caring about CP the day they came out.. I'm not interested in yet another boring grindfest.

I'd be very happy with new class mixes though..

sort of mixes like templar with sorc abilities with perhaps a new skill line that gives us abilities to summon spiders and senche

maybe a hand to hand skill line with a bard skill line mixed with alteration magic to give us another healer

Just tossing out some ideas.. I'm not in the way of game making but if I can make up these bad ideas then they should be able to come out with new ones that would be great.

Noomfy-Mop

@FelixTheCatt
@The_Sadist

Thank you for actually reading the thread and offering ACTUAL advice.
And to everyone else who contributed to the discussion and didn't just read the title and make snap judgments.

The_Sadist

Noomfy-Mop wrote: »

@FelixTheCatt
@The_Sadist

Thank you for actually reading the thread and offering ACTUAL advice.
And to everyone else who contributed to the discussion and didn't just read the title and make snap judgments.

I think you should consider editing the post's title, unfortunately a majority of posters will see the word WoW and fixate on it. While it's not any fault of your own, changing the title will avoid the off topic banter and mindless rage posts. That being said, there are several interesting threads regarding potential expansions scattered throughout the forums, granted finding them mightn't that easy with all the DLC talk.

Metal10957

Let's see, Forsorn could work, maybe a few Dwarves survived their machinations.

olemanwinter

Gidorick wrote: »

Release 2 year

2 per year you mean?

That seems hilariously optimistic with this company. I think instead of 13 years....it would take more like 39 years at the rate they are going.

Or more likely, the game won't even last long enough to introduce those zones.

The_Sadist

Metal10957 wrote: »

Let's see, Forsorn could work, maybe a few Dwarves survived their machinations.

Eh? I'm guessing you mean the Dwemer, of which 99.9% of them have vanished into nothingness (take a read), so that's definitely a no.

ThePeskyCrow

Sithisvoid wrote: »

Fartman wrote: »

You seriously know this much lore about a video game? I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and I know I run around with a sword or whatever and kill stuff... I dunno how people get this in to a game. They can expand... Look at what FFXIV just released... and why does everyone compare MMORPG's to WoW? It didn't start the genre. I wish games like this didn't have so much lore, because it would be easier to add stuff in, because people like me wouldn't even know the difference, they'd just enjoy the game for what it is. Not get caught up in some make believe World, and say stuff can't be in a made up World. because in that made up world, this made up thing didn't exist then... I've ran in to that on this board when discussing a few things, and it's quite annoying.

There are all these fancy things in the game, with a bunch of pieces of paper bound together that contain all sorts of information in printed word form. I think they are called BOOKS. You should check them out sometime for lore and lore related material

I thought ESO had nothing to do with TES games. It was just a MMO in a TES motif.

Alliel

I wish they would go WoW and fix the grouping tool already, it would make the game so much better. Also adding more stuff to do instead of useless mounts and pets would help too.

Fartman

Exactly what I'm talking about in regards to responses from certain people on here. Going out of their way to be rude instead of being helpful. It'd be awesome if people actually spoke to one another as if they were standing right in front of them.... with some respect.

Sithisvoid wrote: »

Fartman wrote: »

You seriously know this much lore about a video game? I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and I know I run around with a sword or whatever and kill stuff... I dunno how people get this in to a game. They can expand... Look at what FFXIV just released... and why does everyone compare MMORPG's to WoW? It didn't start the genre. I wish games like this didn't have so much lore, because it would be easier to add stuff in, because people like me wouldn't even know the difference, they'd just enjoy the game for what it is. Not get caught up in some make believe World, and say stuff can't be in a made up World. because in that made up world, this made up thing didn't exist then... I've ran in to that on this board when discussing a few things, and it's quite annoying.

There are all these fancy things in the game, with a bunch of pieces of paper bound together that contain all sorts of information in printed word form. I think they are called BOOKS. You should check them out sometime for lore and lore related material