Does pvp ruin RPGs?

mdhammond

I know pvp is fun and a lot of us enjoy it but every single online rpg is the same. Everything becomes a problem bc of pvp, from level caps, to skill nerfs to classes being OP. And the game forums soon become a complaint fest.
It's like we forget the point of these type of games, character development, community, adventure, immersion into a world where you can be anyone. Be a blacksmith, a thief, a Mage. Develope your character until you have god like powers and your the one everyone on your guild wants help from in dungeons or come to when they are ready for some epic gear to be crafted.
I'm in no way hating on PVPers, I enjoy it to, I don't know just strikes me as kinda sad, the most unique genre of gaming and its plagued by all this complaining over pvp balance instead of enjoying a beautiful game with friends and using it to relax and escape everyday drama. I'd miss pvp but sometimes wish they'd leave it for the generic shooter games.

dsalter

No pvp makes them great

mdhammond wrote: »

I know pvp is fun and a lot of us enjoy it but every single online rpg is the same. Everything becomes a problem bc of pvp, from level caps, to skill nerfs to classes being OP. And the game forums soon become a complaint fest.
It's like we forget the point of these type of games, character development, community, adventure, immersion into a world where you can be anyone. Be a blacksmith, a thief, a Mage. Develope your character until you have god like powers and your the one everyone on your guild wants help from in dungeons or come to when they are ready for some epic gear to be crafted.
I'm in no way hating on PVPers, I enjoy it to, I don't know just strikes me as kinda sad, the most unique genre of gaming and its plagued by all this complaining over pvp balance instead of enjoying a beautiful game with friends and using it to relax and escape everyday drama. I'd miss pvp but sometimes wish they'd leave it for the generic shooter games.

does your pve ruin our rpg?

i like both. i want both.

Zazaaji

Can't vote.

It only ruins it if PvP is forced in order to progress at all. AION was bad with that. If PvP remains optional by way of purely optional PvP zones (as ESO does), arenas, or anything else never forced to progress, then it can be a great addition when you get tired of killing scripted computer enemies.

Gidorick

Why are all these polls biased?

PVP CAN ruin an RPG but it doesn't have to. It just has to be designed properly.

Next time you make a poll @mdhammond. Just have

• Yes
• No
• Clever 3rd Option

Don't try to GUESS why someone is saying yes or no. Don't worry, we will explain.

mdhammond

Yes pvp ruins it in a way

Salter Ty for not reading but I do both. But no I see no way pve adversely affects pvp on any game, it's always the other way around. Always pvp that gets everything changed and nerfed

Fruitmass

I'm going with "other" on this one.

Personally, pvp isn't my favorite activity but there have been some games where I've participated and really enjoyed myself.

Pvp isn't an issue when it's done right. Naturally though, that's the tricky part. If it's just some gimmicky mess shoehorned in there for the sake of being there or it's forced upon players at a point in order to move forward that's where it becomes a problem.

Psychobunni

Yes pvp ruins it in a way

Well I didn't hold so much against PVP when I first came to ESO, but in the course of this game ZOS has made me care less if it disappeared from the game all together....skill changes and nerfs, over and over and ......to "balance" pvp.

and secondly the PVE ties to PVP. The storyline was great the first time. Second wasn't too bad I could make different choices. Third, Fourth.....omg I hate EP, please let me be a traitor and kill them all.

I just want to run my AD alt with my EP guild in dungeons

Sharakor

No pvp makes them great

I think that you're forgetting that many people like myself wouldn't even consider buying this game is there weren't any PvP...

Fruitmass

Psychobunni wrote: »

Well I didn't hold so much against PVP when I first came to ESO, but in the course of this game ZOS has made me care less if it disappeared from the game all together....skill changes and nerfs, over and over and ......to "balance" pvp.

Do wish they'd consider using separate skill templates for pvp and pve so they wouldn't have to do that so much.

mdhammond

Yes pvp ruins it in a way

I think GW 1 had it right. Pvp and pve were completely separate, if your skills were nerfed in pvp for some reason it did not affect your skills in pve at all.

surge914b14_ESO

No pvp makes them great

PvP does cause problems but those are usually devs fault. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game.

Forestd16b14_ESO

No pvp makes them great

No for me cause player VS player has been a staple in video games since well the very first game with pong. That is why multi player was made so we could "battle" against friends and strangers to earn bragging rights so to speak and to have fun and test our skills as gamers against others. And PvP does play a massive role in RPGs cause were there are PRGs there are wars and wars are fought with weapons and won with people who want to be there.

As the idea of PvP has many forms from the friendly style of arena were you can agree with some one to do and have fun doing it to well.... ESO pvp right now of nothing more than a hot mess of lag exploits and abusing broken mechanics.... But never a less PvP doesn't ruin RPGs for they play a massive role within it be for rights as a gamer or Role Play wise. For half of ESO and it's lore is based around the AvA (alliance VS alliance) and with out it well......... it just be another elder scrolls game with bad guy comes in wrecks stuff good guy prisoner breaks out of jail and saves the day.

But getting to the root of the point is PvP doesn't ruin it but ESO pvp right now is a mess and I truely believe that we need a arena system to atleast put it on the right path of recovery. Yes I know Brian Wheeler at ZoS head of pvp said imp city will have a smaller scale pvp to as he put it "scratch that itch" but what I heard is "smaller scale Zerg VS Zerg". Yes I am all for smaller scaled pvp but only done right and imp city just sounds like small scale zerg vs zerg and no one wants just another zerg fest. Imperial city has a arena use it to make pvp arena none of this rumor of another PvE gauntlet BS like DSA. Casue for me my "itch" will stay here till a pvp arena is finally put in doesn't matter for small scaled zergs that's not what I want and i'm 77% sure not what many other want either.

dsalter

No pvp makes them great

mdhammond wrote: »

Salter Ty for not reading but I do both. But no I see no way pve adversely affects pvp on any game, it's always the other way around. Always pvp that gets everything changed and nerfed

actually many changes in ESO have favourd pve , i should know, i was there.

mdhammond

Yes pvp ruins it in a way

dsalter....Name one instance where a skill change or a nerf was put into place bc of pve that hurt something useful in pvp, since you "would know bc you were there" and all

dsalter

No pvp makes them great

mdhammond wrote: »

dsalter....Name one instance where a skill change or a nerf was put into place bc of pve that hurt something useful in pvp, since you "would know bc you were there" and all

NPC's being able to also break free.
something about jabs
i'll admit there arent as many as i thought but none the less.

tho one big thing that reminds that pve started was that bullcrap called "weaving" and now its a "feature" that is abused hard in pvp.

Knootewoot

No pvp makes them great

With PvP the game (for me) gets better. I would find it even more better iof there was world PvP. The reason I play TESO is because WARHAMMER no longer exists. Else I would have played that instead.

It is just hard to balance a skill for PvP and PvE. But you can make a skill work different on a NPC then on a player.

Just simple, ZoS may use this snippet:

If radiantDest.player=true then damage=2000;
else
damage=10000;

DeanTheCat

mdhammond wrote: »

dsalter....Name one instance where a skill change or a nerf was put into place bc of pve that hurt something useful in pvp, since you "would know bc you were there" and all

Energy Orbs

Energy Orb: The damage bonus for this ability no longer stacks when multiple player characters activate the synergy.

There we go, I just named one. This was back in Patch 1.3.3, where people were using this to blow up bosses in AA within a few seconds. Hard to actually pull off in PvP, but when you did... Well, let's just say the victims didn't live long.

mdhammond

Yes pvp ruins it in a way

I should of done the poll different as I also enjoy pvp, I think the win win is having pve and pvp completely separate. That way nerfs to pvp do not affect pve etc.

Cogo

No pvp makes them great

Most MMOs, even WoW have a big job with balancing PvE and PvP. In most MMOs, these are 2 different worlds and gears/abilities from each doesn't work well in the other. Or something works to well in one.

ESO have done a very good job since all skills are global and even the alliance war skills that you need to earn with points are not that bad for balance. Also, some Alliance war skills that would be too good in PvE are Cyro only. Like some weapon skills (Need to equip that weapon for them to be in effect.)

The really good PvP skills like Vigor, you still need to earn by PvP ranks. As long as they don't make these skills to easy to get, it doesn't matter if a few have them. Just like rewards in PvE, those who earns powerful things....well...is that wrong? Everyone isn't running around with the best gear, which also makes ESO more interesting to play since there is always something better to get. Or different.

It is not perfect, but ESO have a much better balance then most MMOs who mix the two.

Note that ZoS have a DEV responsible per area and they look at the whole game, not just one part. For example, one Dev is in charge of Cyro and Imp city, while another have Combat skills. One of them do not add/change something without working with the other.

If/when they add the Justice system Phase 2, with the new Guard skill line to attack criminals, or a world PvP, THEN we may get some imbalance problems. Let's see what they come up with.

No, PvP in ESO does not ruin the game. In fact, pvp opens a door for us who wasnt interested in it.

I always hated PvP, but Cyrodiil made me loooove it.

wally2000

Pvp no ruin the RPG ,the level cap does
People that want cap to be all the same cause pvp , thats ruin RPG
PVP as to be oart of the game an as in any war there are soldier s general s and kings ,mage archmage
The problem is put more quest content to make this progression less boring , new stories new places new mobs new gear
PVP is a part of the game but has to be some sort of progression

PBpsy

What ruins MMORPG is bad PVP that is somewhat forced into pve. What makes great MMORPG is great pvp in addition to pve. Even If I prefer PVE. I think that the biggest problem with ESO is big, slow , bloated ,dull, intermittent , over ambitious lagy pvp that has become harder to get into with each patch.

wally2000

The problem is pvp need to be fair but in a mmorpg u need progression so the new are not be the same of the old people so the best u can do is divide areas like new campagn pvp and seniors ones so everybody fight with people more or less at the same levels

Jultzy

No pvp makes them great

mdhammond wrote: »

Salter Ty for not reading but I do both. But no I see no way pve adversely affects pvp on any game, it's always the other way around. Always pvp that gets everything changed and nerfed

Well @mdhammond thats very untrue. Pve ruins a lot of pvp in other games. WoW for example. An already overpowered class in pvp gets major damage buffs making it a complete pvp god class that no one can kill unless the player who plays it is a 100 times worse of a player and the only reason the class got a buff was due to pve. They didn't do enaugh damage in pve apparently so they buff the class and destroys so much in pvp just to realize a month later that they have to nerf the class to the ground for pvp (which a lot of times doesn't happen). The class stays unbalanced untill enaugh people have cried about it or it becomes too good in pve. Ofcourse this happens the other way around too, just wanted to give you an example that pve does ruin pvp much more than you belive.

For the sake of RPG I dont think pvp ruins it. Pvp is a big part of the RPG experience. RPG should never be about the long you play the better you are. It should reflect the reality much more. The one learning and improving the most should be the strongest. Not because he has op gear but because he has developed a much higher skill level and therefore outplays the other players. This whole skill to win isn't pvp only either. That has to fit into the pve too. If you aren't good enaugh you shouldn't be able to complete the most difficult trails there is in the game just because you played for years. That should require skills from your side too and skill is something you develop from playing and learning from what you do. In the end if you do this, time played will make you the player people wants to play with.

mdhammond

Yes pvp ruins it in a way

Ok then so let's say occasionally a pve skill change affects a pvp build, it's still like 100-1 that this happens. The proof is obvious in every online game forum that's ever existed. The pvp complaints and nerf or buff requests bury the few random pve requests. No debating that. The two just need to be kept separate plain and simple. I shouldn't have to have the build I've quested with forever and love changed simply bc some person in pvp found a way to make it OP. How can you argue that? Why are pvp defenders so reluctant to play on their own zone with balancing separate from pve? Why do the majority seem to want their changes to affect everybody?

Just look at the getting rid of vet ranks threads, everyone that is in favor of removing them for pvp wants em gone for everyone, I'm the only one I've seen suggest just get rid of em in pvp if it's a problem. Why do pvp problems have to affect the entire gaming community?

bertenburnyb16_ESO

No pvp makes them great

this is not a SP RPG, its an MMO....

mdhammond

Yes pvp ruins it in a way

At Bertnberny. that has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. GW 1 was an mmo as well wich kept pvp balancing nerfs separate from pve skills. Also it scaled you in pvp to be equal with everyone, it didn't cap the entire community to solve its problem. Making the statement that this is an mmo dosnt even make any sense

bertenburnyb16_ESO

No pvp makes them great

mdhammond wrote: »

At Bertnberny. that has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. GW 1 was an mmo as well wich kept pvp balancing nerfs separate from pve skills. Also it scaled you in pvp to be equal with everyone, it didn't cap the entire community to solve its problem. Making the statement that this is an mmo dosnt even make any sense

first of its @mdhammond
second, yes they could do it like gw, seperate skill damagecalc from pve to pvp, but I've had litte to no problems with it so far

Jeckll

No pvp makes them great

PvP is the reason because RPGs can become MASSIVE Multiplayer Online Games. In PvE, ESO is pretty much a Coop Game. You play in a group of 4, sometimes a group of 12. Is that massive? I dont think so. It's massive when 50-100 people of your fraktion fight for a keep against an equal number of opponents.

PVP is not the reason for bad balance. We would have balance issues in a PVE only MMO as well. Balance issues are issues no matter if you're playing against other people directly in Cyrodiil or indirectly in Trial Leaderboards.

It's hard for find a balance between equal strength characters that are required for competitive PVP(PVE and progression, a system that most RPG players desire so badly.

PVP doesnt destroy anything, its a solid long term component of a game that is driven by itself and requires way less "new content" than PvE to work.

wally2000

No is a MMORPG

Sausage

No pvp makes them great

We havent had much complaints actually. Sure there was some at launch, even it was just a launch, the trolls just needed to cause harm bofore leaving, thats why offical forums were delayed, so it was great move. I think its the fact that theres no duels or training dummies and learning your character is alot harder and when you actually learn your character, how to fight with it, you dont want to share it. I like this alot more.

mdhammond

Yes pvp ruins it in a way

@bertenburnyb16_ESO

First off it's off not "of" since we're playing that game apparently

And you addressed one issue by saying the skills nerfs not being separate have never bothered you. The real issue however that will be a game breaker for many is the pvp crowd that is moaning for progress to be capped at lvl 50. That drastically affects pve players who want to keep progressing their toons. And it's BS and is exactly WHY they should scale PVPers to one another not cap everyone else who dosnt care about pvp