Permanent Block in ESO

SanderBuraas

I play a lot in Cyrodiil, and notice that many players run the permanent block build, where they are able to hold block permanently and yet be able to dish a lot of damage. They not only are able to deal damage and obtain kills while blocking, but also regain any health they might have lost. The class that excels best at this is Dragonknight, with good passives for block, good cc and self-sustain abilities such as Green Dragon Blood and Flame Leash. Facing such an opponent will usually lead to your death, unless you have allies to help out or use cc such as fear that goes through block - though it will only open a tiny gap for potential damage.

This build was also used a lot before soft caps were removed, where you also could reflect an infinite amount of projectiles with the use of Reflective Scale. Even though this ability was nerfed, the build still is fully functional, especially now that we are able to have high regeneration. The fact that you are able to 'toggle' block, which grants you cc immunity and highly reduced damage taken, and still be able to deal damage is absurd. This should not be possible. In what other games are you able to block and still perform spells? There is a reason this is not possible in most games.

Block is not a toggle. We should not be able to hold block and still be able to use spells. Usage of skills while you hold block should remove the block status for the duration of the ability animation.

danovic

Holding the shield in a block position all the time is how a shield is used. It is not stored on your back or dangled by your side ever. It is the way a shield is used. The idea that we should have to push a button to block is totally unrealistic with sword and shield combat as it is always held in front of you blocking. Block button should only apply to other melee weapons. As for perma block with two handers bow staff and the other melee weapons You right no way they should block as much damage as a shield or even at all. You not going to block arrows or magic spells with a two hander at all. Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game. Notice were the shield is held in that fight.

nothing2591

perma blocking is the most boring part about pvp apart from turrent/sentry snipe spammers ofc. they are just standing there holding block, these builds are for ppl that dont have the skill to light attack weave

Valymer

danovic wrote: »

Holding the shield in a block position all the time is how a shield is used. It is not stored on your back or dangled by your side ever. It is the way a shield is used. The idea that we should have to push a button to block is totally unrealistic with sword and shield combat as it is always held in front of you blocking. Block button should only apply to other melee weapons. As for perma block with two handers bow staff and the other melee weapons You right no way they should block as much damage as a shield or even at all. You not going to block arrows or magic spells with a two hander at all. Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game. Notice were the shield is held in that fight.

I was waiting for the part in the video where he used lava whip while blocking, but I couldn't find it.

DDuke

danovic wrote: »

Holding the shield in a block position all the time is how a shield is used. It is not stored on your back or dangled by your side ever. It is the way a shield is used. The idea that we should have to push a button to block is totally unrealistic with sword and shield combat as it is always held in front of you blocking. Block button should only apply to other melee weapons. As for perma block with two handers bow staff and the other melee weapons You right no way they should block as much damage as a shield or even at all. You not going to block arrows or magic spells with a two hander at all. Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game. Notice were the shield is held in that fight.

I don't think shields protect you from attacks coming from behind.

As you said:

Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game.

They should make blocking directional, imo.

danovic

They can't really make blocking directional the animation is way to slow. Half the time my toon is facing the opposite direction then the way i'm looking it so slow. We can't be penalized because of game mechanics a person can turn to face opponents way faster then the animation.

DDuke

danovic wrote: »

They can't really make blocking directional the animation is way to slow. Half the time my toon is facing the opposite direction then the way i'm looking it so slow. We can't be penalized because of game mechanics a person can turn to face opponents way faster then the animation.

What happened to

Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game.

?




Also, if an opponent can outmaneuver you, shouldn't he be rewarded for that?

danovic

Valymer wrote: »

danovic wrote: »

Holding the shield in a block position all the time is how a shield is used. It is not stored on your back or dangled by your side ever. It is the way a shield is used. The idea that we should have to push a button to block is totally unrealistic with sword and shield combat as it is always held in front of you blocking. Block button should only apply to other melee weapons. As for perma block with two handers bow staff and the other melee weapons You right no way they should block as much damage as a shield or even at all. You not going to block arrows or magic spells with a two hander at all. Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game. Notice were the shield is held in that fight.

I was waiting for the part in the video where he used lava whip while blocking, but I couldn't find it.

Lava whip just another one handed melee weapon but it summoned.

Zanen

Perma-blocking has counters, and opportunity costs. Having tanky builds viable in pvp is a good thing.

Block is fine.

lsneakl

DDuke wrote: »

danovic wrote: »

They can't really make blocking directional the animation is way to slow. Half the time my toon is facing the opposite direction then the way i'm looking it so slow. We can't be penalized because of game mechanics a person can turn to face opponents way faster then the animation.

What happened to

Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game.

?




Also, if an opponent can outmaneuver you, shouldn't he be rewarded for that?

Some things can't be ultra realistic though. Directional blocking would kill off any blocking unless they had opponent lock where it would keep you facing your opponent when in a defensive stance. I want to see someone run circles around you and see if you could keep facing him in ESO..... Now do it in real life.... Yup way easier in real life to keep facing a person.

In the end if you can't kill them if they are ultra defensive than get reinforcements. Now them causing massive damage is an issue but if it small little chunks of damage than I have no issue as why do you think people carried around shields on the battlefield, to defend themselves while hitting their opponents. What I wish was possible is a shield wall of 20-30 players like that of the stories of Sparta and Rome.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Hey Zos still think block casting is a useful mechanic? It's broken ..... it's not useful it not a good mechanic may have sounded nice on paper but in action... it's terrible please just remove and take this giant throne out of pvp side.

TheBull

haha first nerf flame lash thread.



beat me too it

edit - Praise Sithis for NB Fear!

DDuke

lsneakl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

danovic wrote: »

They can't really make blocking directional the animation is way to slow. Half the time my toon is facing the opposite direction then the way i'm looking it so slow. We can't be penalized because of game mechanics a person can turn to face opponents way faster then the animation.

What happened to

Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game.

?




Also, if an opponent can outmaneuver you, shouldn't he be rewarded for that?

Some things can't be ultra realistic though. Directional blocking would kill off any blocking unless they had opponent lock where it would keep you facing your opponent when in a defensive stance. I want to see someone run circles around you and see if you could keep facing him in ESO..... Now do it in real life.... Yup way easier in real life to keep facing a person.

In the end if you can't kill them if they are ultra defensive than get reinforcements. Now them causing massive damage is an issue but if it small little chunks of damage than I have no issue as why do you think people carried around shields on the battlefield, to defend themselves while hitting their opponents. What I wish was possible is a shield wall of 20-30 players like that of the stories of Sparta and Rome.

Thing is, I shouldn't be forced to run away or call reinforcements against one person holding block & spamming whip.

There should be *working* counters to that kind of gameplay, counters which currently do not exist.

Sure, some CCs go through block, but those CCs also give you a cooldown of 1,3 seconds before you can deal any damage, and those CCs most of the time will get broken instantly.

If you were able to "lock on" to your target & keep facing them, that'd take away all the skill aspect of directional block, and I for one think the whole point of directional block (aside from realism), would be to atleast add a skill aspect to the gameplay (no, there is no way you can convince me that holding right mouse button & spamming whip or any other skill requires skill), as well as a *functional* way to counter permablocking.

arena25

Yeah, permablocking is not good. Get real. I can't block forever in PvE while fighting a monster, should I be allowed to permablock? No.

ZOS, either make blocking directional or make the stamina cost of blocking into a percentile, not be a value, but a percentile.

Teiji

Fear, Eclipse, Daedric Mines, Talons and Petrify are just some of the abilities that penetrate block.

Fear has been known to allow characters to penetrate terrain.

Green Dragon Blood is a peasant ability, Coagulating Blood is what you want or you're a troll who only perma-blocks people that don't light attack weave. Flame Lash is also a peasant ability, Molten Whip is what you should be dying to, if you're not - send the person killing you with Flame Lash a tell telling them to go and grind to 250 champ points, take Molten Whip like an Alpha Mer, post threads on how Sorc is op to help distract attention from the op elephant in the room which is Templar.

Perma-blockers should be doing no damage as a sword & shield pvper should be in your face shield-bashing you a million times to counter perma-blocking through perma-bashing whilst perma-blocking at the same time.

If all of this is too much effort, then I sincerely suggest an L2P approach - this means grinding champion points mindlessly as the "L2P approach" is less about mechanical ability than it is about ability to grind champ points efficiently. It never used to be though.

Valymer

Teiji wrote: »

If all of this is too much effort, then I sincerely suggest an L2P approach

That's exactly what I did. I learned to play...Witcher 3.

Vis

danovic wrote: »

Holding the shield in a block position all the time is how a shield is used. It is not stored on your back or dangled by your side ever. It is the way a shield is used. The idea that we should have to push a button to block is totally unrealistic with sword and shield combat as it is always held in front of you blocking. Block button should only apply to other melee weapons. As for perma block with two handers bow staff and the other melee weapons You right no way they should block as much damage as a shield or even at all. You not going to block arrows or magic spells with a two hander at all. Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game. Notice were the shield is held in that fight.

Where are the flapping wings that would make him immune to all projectiles in a 360 degree radius? Man, ESO is sooo close to real life, your argument must be valid.

jelliedsoup

It appears that blocl casting is for those who have learnt to play.

nimander99

Awesome video @danovic I love it when these posts pop up from time to time... I think the last one was about about the myth of no mobility in heavy armor which was soundly crushed by a video of a guy in full chain and plate rolling around and doing jumping jacks... great stuff!

SanderBuraas

Zanen wrote: »

Perma-blocking has counters, and opportunity costs. Having tanky builds viable in pvp is a good thing.

Block is fine.

Permanent block does not have counters. A light armour mage build has counters, which is physical damage and melee fighters. Have you ever fought the opponent I described in my opening post? Those are not tanky builds, those are broken builds that take advantage of how easy it is to permanently block and still be able to deal a lot of damage and sustain themselves.

When you block, it should be to reduce damage, not to be used at the same time as you deal damage.

noobfury

I honestly wonder how many people actually spend any significant amount of time in pvp.
There is no such thing as a permanent block build.

Scales lasts 4 seconds. How many times can you spam scales and whip and gdb while holding block over and over again without draining your resources ?

First of all , the amount of damage by un blockable skills like 30 k soul assault for example is ridicules. The day I can use GDB or any other heal to counter the obscene amount of damage in pvp will be fantastic. How much magika or stamina does it take for someone to beam a shield user with soul assault ? None . Skill ? None . It's an insta win button like so many other skills in the game right now.


How about good old Radiant Destruction or Fear. Do you know that that's the first thing people pull out of the hat as soon as they see a shield ? I get killed by RD more than anything else in PVP because some brave player standing behind the person your engaged with is sniping an easy kill.

When someone is losing , bam just hit that fear button . That's all it takes.

Ever have someone spam 3k Biting Jabs over and over? An experienced Templar sees a shield and that spear will come out.
There are many skills that go right through a shield.

Second of all , DK's are suffering right now from a lack of any real damage compared to other classes. They have been nerfed so hard the only thing they have left in class skills that they can hope to rely on is whip. If your being killed by whips puny damage then your facing an LTP situation.

It takes much more skill to be able to hold a shield while managing resources than it does to spam laser beams from a safe distance and run away when someone gets to close. Does a DK have an escape when their resources run low?

Or to snipe someone with a 20k Lethal Arrow while your gank buddy jumps out of stealth with fear and is able to spam 5 attacks in less than 2 seconds , I promise you won't even have time to get the shield up before your dead let alone block anything.

A DK using 1H and shield with class skills requires more work to play effectively than almost any other class . Using a shield is not easy mode by any means . I respect anyone trying to make this class work effectively right now .

The op probably was bested by someone who knew how to play the class well and now thinks that shields need a nerf.

FYI there are not a lot of players that use a so called perma block build in pvp , that's a complete misconception however I can say with all confidence there are a lot of players running stamina NB's with 2H and another 70% or so running sorc.

Most players in pvp don't want a class that's not easy mode.

Valymer

noobfury wrote: »

I honestly wonder how many people actually spend any significant amount of time in pvp.
There is no such thing as a permanent block build.

When you say things like that it makes me wonder if you have spent any time in PvP. There are permanent block builds, I have dueled against them as recently as 2 weeks ago.

These builds may not be the most effective in large-scale zerg PvP but 1 on 1 they can be extremely strong if played correctly, particularly for classes or builds without a decent CC.

In fact most of the things you've said here are either flat-out untrue, or misleading. Yes, Fear is an excellent counter to perma-blockers...for nightblades, because that's the only class that has a fear ability. And the reason that so many DKs rely on whip is because it is bugged and cannot be roll-dodged right now. Nirnhorn helps for now, but again only because it is bugged -- who knows what the situation will look like after all of this stuff gets fixed...I won't be around to see it anyway.

And pretty much every player in PvP would prefer it if their class was easy mode. I mean who wouldn't, really? Why would anyone want to work two or three times as hard to accomplish the same result? That just leaves more room for you to make deadly mistakes, while your opponent is mashing one or two buttons over and over again and laughing at you scrambling to survive.

Soul Assault is an ultimate, and is available to everyone. But I will agree with you on Radiant Oppression, that ability needs be at least be broken by line of sight (they supposedly fixed it, but as usual they spoke too soon).

timidobserver

If you make this change then the flamelash DK that is holding block will just start spamming wrecking blow and charge like everyone else.

NadiusMaximus

The 360° blocking should be removed, then it's just attack from behind when possible. But it would take a lot of work and wont happen

noobfury

Valymer wrote: »

noobfury wrote: »

I honestly wonder how many people actually spend any significant amount of time in pvp.
There is no such thing as a permanent block build.

When you say things like that it makes me wonder if you have spent any time in PvP. There are permanent block builds, I have dueled against them as recently as 2 weeks ago.

These builds may not be the most effective in large-scale zerg PvP but 1 on 1 they can be extremely strong if played correctly, particularly for classes or builds without a decent CC.

In fact most of the things you've said here are either flat-out untrue, or misleading. Yes, Fear is an excellent counter to perma-blockers...for nightblades, because that's the only class that has a fear ability. And the reason that so many DKs rely on whip is because it is bugged and cannot be roll-dodged right now. Nirnhorn helps for now, but again only because it is bugged -- who knows what the situation will look like after all of this stuff gets fixed...I won't be around to see it anyway.

And pretty much every player in PvP would prefer it if their class was easy mode. I mean who wouldn't, really? Why would anyone want to work two or three times as hard to accomplish the same result? That just leaves more room for you to make deadly mistakes, while your opponent is mashing one or two buttons over and over again and laughing at you scrambling to survive.

Soul Assault is an ultimate, and is available to everyone. But I will agree with you on Radiant Oppression, that ability needs be at least be broken by line of sight (they supposedly fixed it, but as usual they spoke too soon).

Ok so we know fear breaks shield , got the NB's covered . Is this untrue ? So few people running NB's these days.

Let's see , how about Templars ? No comment other than what everyone already knows about RD. A good Templar is a beast against sword and board users.

Soul Assault being an ultimate and available to everyone is irrelevant , I have it and choose not to use it. It's an un blockable skill that can hit for 20 - 30 k period. Is this untrue ? You can also spam Meteor , Ice Comet and Shooting Star those are available to everyone.

Did anyone from zos actually say whip was bugged ? I wasn't aware of that. What should DK's fight with when that gets taken away , harsh language ?

PVP is not about dueling , It's about trying to avoid the massive amount of damage that's being dished out by everyone except DK's unless their using non class skills. Why don't you try the so called perma block build yourself and go see how long you survive on Chillrend.

It's easy to accept defeat when you get hit by a skill that does 20 - 30 k damage but when you get outplayed by one guy using a low damage skill and a shield it's hard to swallow.

VincentBlanquin

petrify dont go through block

BuggeX

All classes are unbrakeable in there on way.

Sorc - Shildstacking and Bolt escape
NB - infinit doge and cloak
Temp - Overheal to infinit
DK - Block and spell reflect


So remove all or nothing


and btw. a good temp/sorc/NB will crush you out of the block in 2secs, even if you have 53000 mres like me

WillhelmBlack

Over on the EU server we have a lot of DK's perma-blocking, one guy is using shield stacking, CP's, various exploits and macro's too to become virtually invincible. He does no damage unless you get close so I just ignore him but I know when he's about because he'll have around 40-50 players beating on him doing absolutely no damage to him whatsoever.

I've been lava whipped to death a few times with my NB because I have to get in Melee range with him and they can get you through dodge rolls.

Now I just stay away from DK's. They're not much use after you wipe the rest of their group out. Just keep one of your own DK's in group on him to stop him from rezzing his buds.

Knootewoot

Perma block is fine... if it was directional. Someone blocking his front should still be getting good damage from the rear.

I know it would not work well in TESO because of lag and we can walk through people (especially PvE'ers don't want it)

Earelith

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Hey Zos still think block casting is a useful mechanic? It's broken ..... it's not useful it not a good mechanic may have sounded nice on paper but in action... it's terrible please just remove and take this giant throne out of pvp side.

I like blocking and i like shields. I always use classes with shields in all my mmos. Now, i dont like range damage mechanic, so lets better remove it. See what i did here?

Zanen

Smepic wrote: »

Zanen wrote: »

Perma-blocking has counters, and opportunity costs. Having tanky builds viable in pvp is a good thing.

Block is fine.

Permanent block does not have counters. A light armour mage build has counters, which is physical damage and melee fighters. Have you ever fought the opponent I described in my opening post? Those are not tanky builds, those are broken builds that take advantage of how easy it is to permanently block and still be able to deal a lot of damage and sustain themselves.

When you block, it should be to reduce damage, not to be used at the same time as you deal damage.

Yes, I've fought the build you described.

They run out of stamina and die without support.