Should Vigor only take ALLIANCE RANK 5 TO GET?

SRIBES

"Yes, there has been further discussion and plans for change are in progress. We plan to move Vigor and Guard to Alliance Rank 5, also in the next major update."
I think this is an awful idea.. Alliance rank 9 MAYBE 8 would be reasonable vigor is one of the most powerful abilites in the game for stamina users. There is like no reward but AP for PvP, people need to dedicate time if they want a powerful skill. Alliance rank 5 takes roughly a day or two to get. It feels so good when you finally get what you worked hard for and not when it's just handed to you. Awful decision, and the fact that nirnhoned isn't being fixed till june? Lmao. Zos really cares about PvP.

SRIBES

No

Wtf it started like 3 threads... Um.. Didn't mean to do that.

Emma_Overload

Yes

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

Bouvin

No

While I agree 10 is a tad too high.. 5 is too low. Probably 7-8 would be more realistic.

Erock25

Yes

OP is aware that the rank 5 is out of 10 right? Not sure what they're called officially but to me there is alliance rank which goes up to who knows how high but lots of people are 30+ now, and then there is alliance skill line ranks which go from 1-10. I'm fairly certain they are putting Vigor in alliance skill line rank 5, which I'm pretty sure takes way longer than a day or two to get.

Garion

No

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

You mean like we have to grind your boring PvE dungeons to get decent gear?

Garion

No

Garion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

You mean like we have to grind your boring PvE dungeons to get decent gear?

PS if you need a stamina heal for PvE you're doing it wrong. In group content you will have a healer. Solo content is so easy you don't need it.

Sharee

Erock25 wrote: »

OP is aware that the rank 5 is out of 10 right? Not sure what they're called officially but to me there is alliance rank which goes up to who knows how high but lots of people are 30+ now, and then there is alliance skill line ranks which go from 1-10. I'm fairly certain they are putting Vigor in alliance skill line rank 5, which I'm pretty sure takes way longer than a day or two to get.

Alliance war skill line level 5 is achieved at alliance rank 7 or 8. My DK alt had that before he even hit veteran ranks.
Alliance war skill line level 10 is achieved at alliance rank 24. My main which i've been playing for a year now is at 21.

(just to put things into perspective)

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yes

Right now, the skill is way too hard to get.

I would like to see it around level 6 or 7 (not trivial to get, but not that hard either). I'm ok if they want to make it 5 though-- that is definitely better than 10!

Stamden

Yes

The best option would be to make it account wide. Making it level 5 is lazy, but I guess it's better than having it at 10.

Emma_Overload

Yes

Garion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

You mean like we have to grind your boring PvE dungeons to get decent gear?

Yeah, except there no dungeons or quests that take 6 friggin' MONTHS to complete, or any skill lines for that mattter. In PvE, you can easily take a toon from Level 1 to VR14 with EVERY skill line maxed (except Alliance War) in less than 6 weeks! The ONLY thing that takes a long time in PvE is Crafting to 9 Traits, and you can STILL do that in less time than it takes to level up to Vigor in PvP... and with a lot less effort.

Emma_Overload

Yes

Garion wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

You mean like we have to grind your boring PvE dungeons to get decent gear?

PS if you need a stamina heal for PvE you're doing it wrong. In group content you will have a healer. Solo content is so easy you don't need it.

Ridiculous. I don't have a healer following me around, EVER, so I need to self-heal regardless of whether the content I'm doing has been arbitrarily labeled "group" or "solo".

Cody

No

I personally want it at 7 or 8. those ranks require some work, but at the same time are not giant grinds that only a small percentage of this PVP player base will ever complete.
5 is a bit too low imo, but i wont argue it.


all the people that say AR24 is a short grind honestly have no idea what they are taking about:( idk how people earn 7 mill AP so fast, but they do. unfortunately, that is a very small minority.

SRIBES

No

Erock25 wrote: »

OP is aware that the rank 5 is out of 10 right? Not sure what they're called officially but to me there is alliance rank which goes up to who knows how high but lots of people are 30+ now, and then there is alliance skill line ranks which go from 1-10. I'm fairly certain they are putting Vigor in alliance skill line rank 5, which I'm pretty sure takes way longer than a day or two to get.

LOL yes I am aware, My NB is alliance rank 14 I believe my /played on him is 8 days. It takes no time at all to go from assult/support rank 1-5.

SRIBES

No

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

Guessed wrong. I'm assuming you meant assult/support rank 10? The fact you don't understand the system proves my point earlier that it should be rigorous to get the best stamina heal in game. You still have accsess to rally, healing from ultimates, skills and passives. Alliance rank 5 is way to low and it will be funny to see every stamina build in game spamming vigor, it's very powerful and I can bet you the skill will be nerfed when every stamina build starts using it.

(EP DK alliance rank 22)
(DC NB alliance rank 14)

Tankqull

No

the skill is way to powerfull for rank 5. it´ll be gamebreaking in pve and pvp once everybody has it within a weekend of pvp.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

No

5 is way to low. 10 is a bit high. Maybe 8 or 9. Either way, I don't care. I'm doing fine without it. It will just be that much more fun once I do get it. I'm currently at lvl 8.

nothing2591

Yes

Vigor should be a nightblade skill end of story.

ToRelax

Yes

If the skill is indeed to powerful the solution would be to tear it down, not to make it only achievable to a small minority of the player base.
This change will be good. I would never even try a stamina build in 1.6, because my main is a Sorc and it would take months of PvP just to unlock that skill on another char. DK must be around 10 now, others didnt hit veteran.
If players want to be rewarded for playing then please don't give them a skill that makes them a lot more powerful than most players... I would think people who PvP that much want some competition, but seems I was wrong there...

King Bozo

No

No

Emma_Overload

Yes

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

Guessed wrong. I'm assuming you meant assult/support rank 10? The fact you don't understand the system proves my point earlier that it should be rigorous to get the best stamina heal in game. You still have accsess to rally, healing from ultimates, skills and passives. Alliance rank 5 is way to low and it will be funny to see every stamina build in game spamming vigor, it's very powerful and I can bet you the skill will be nerfed when every stamina build starts using it.

(EP DK alliance rank 22)
(DC NB alliance rank 14)

Rally is for 2H.. what about DW or Bow or S&B? Heck, as a Sorcerer, I don't even have a working MAGICKA based heal I can put on the same bar as any weapon other than a Resto staff!

Your argument really takes the cake! Your snobbery towards n00bs is NOT a convincing reason to deny a stamina heal to such a large population of players.

Cody

No

dang right every stamina builder will use vigor... many of us have been waiting for decent stamina heals since beta. Dang right I will take advantage of what I have waited for since the days of hopesfire.

Bahalul

No

Give me all the Undaunted passives at level 5 then.

Xael

Rank 5 is pretty easy to get.
You can do that in a couple days if you play enough and well. All of my alts are rank 5 or higher.

You should have a third choice for those that are indifferent. I can see pros and cons. It doesn't matter, people are going to b*tch, moan, and groan about anything and everything. These forums are rife with whining and stupidity.

nothing2591

Yes

Bahalul wrote: »

Give me all the Undaunted passives at level 5 then.

Undaunted passives are *** and not required to be on par with magicka builds like vigor is pvp wise.

DeLindsay

Yes

Putting ANY ability behind a year long grind (Alliance Rank 10) is stupidity on a whole other plane of existence. And saying it's a year long grind is being kind to those who don't play ESO all day every day camping D'ticks in Cyrodiil. Even then it takes a good 4-7 months of solid PvP grinding to go from nill to PvP Rank 24, and that's PER CHARACTER. Nobody will EVER have Alliance Rank 24 on all 8 Characters, and maybe 98% of ESO won't even have it on 4, one of each Class.

Now that said, none of the abilities should be behind any Rank, Passives on the other hand can be walled up considering some are quite good. There are many reasons that most of ESO hates PvP, lag is probably #1, but the horrible grind is another reason, lack of "content" and fast combat (too much riding here and there) and ZoS's absolute refusal to give the Players Arena, Battlegrounds or any other form of small form PvP is certainly another reason.

I'm glad they decided on Rank 5, but even Rank 6 would been reasonable as well, since that can be gotten in a solid month of horrible Laggy-McExploitive-Lag to achieve PvP Rank 12.

DeLindsay

Yes

Putting ANY ability behind a year long grind (Alliance Rank 10) is stupidity on a whole other plane of existence. And saying it's a year long grind is being kind to those who don't play ESO all day every day camping D'ticks in Cyrodiil. Even then it takes a good 4-7 months of solid PvP grinding to go from nill to PvP Rank 24, and that's PER CHARACTER. Nobody will EVER have Alliance Rank 24 on all 8 Characters, and maybe 98% of ESO won't even have it on 4, one of each Class.

Now that said, none of the abilities should be behind any Rank, Passives on the other hand can be walled up considering some are quite good. There are many reasons that most of ESO hates PvP, lag is probably #1, but the horrible grind is another reason, lack of "content" and fast combat (too much riding here and there) and ZoS's absolute refusal to give the Players Arena, Battlegrounds or any other form of small form PvP is certainly another reason.

I'm glad they decided on Rank 5, but even Rank 6 would been reasonable as well, since that can be gotten in a solid month of horrible Laggy-McExploitive-Lag to achieve PvP Rank 12.

Bahalul wrote: »

Give me all the Undaunted passives at level 5 then.

I gotta LOL dude, you can have Undaunted Passives at Undaunted 1 for all I care, they're almost worthless. Sure they have a little value but not much. And I gotta double LOL at people who actually compare Undaunted 7 (max for all Passives) to PvP Rank 24 (Alliance War Rank 10) which are not remotely the same time investment, not even close. I could get Undaunted 7 on all 8 Characters before I got PvP Rank 24 on 1 single toon, spending 4 hours each day doing PvP and 2 hours each day doing Dungeons.

Xael

DeLindsay wrote: »

There are many reasons that most of ESO hates PvP, lag is probably #1, but the horrible grind is another reason, lack of "content" and fast combat (too much riding here and there) and ZoS's absolute refusal to give the Players Arena, Battlegrounds or any other form of small form PvP is certainly another reason.

Actually no.
The most you are referring to, are probably carebears. You seem to forget this game is not comprised of just pvpers. A lot of people play this game for the storyline and raiding. I know quite a few people who never pvp. I know some who pvp just for skill unlocks. Then you have those that actually care about pvp.

This is the first game in a long time that has offered largescale pvp outside of instance that isn't auto attack / lock on friendly. The skillcap on PvP is much higher than other mmorpgs as you have to actively block and dodge, swing, weave, etc. Unlike you, I despise arenas, battlegrounds, and consensual instanced pvp. I think they are a heaping pile of [snip] and the reason world pvp in most games died or doesn't exist at all. I think Cyrodiil is fine and just needs tweaks and fixes. Moreover when Darkness Falls... I mean Imperial City releases, it will be even better, provided ZOS doesn't [snip] this up as well ( I won't hold my breath).

People want it easy. That's it in a nutshell. They want to be rewarded for as little effort as possible. Take a look around these forums, you will see the spirit of entitlement everywhere. It's ridiculous.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Bahalul

No

DeLindsay wrote: »

Putting ANY ability behind a year long grind (Alliance Rank 10) is stupidity on a whole other plane of existence. And saying it's a year long grind is being kind to those who don't play ESO all day every day camping D'ticks in Cyrodiil. Even then it takes a good 4-7 months of solid PvP grinding to go from nill to PvP Rank 24, and that's PER CHARACTER. Nobody will EVER have Alliance Rank 24 on all 8 Characters, and maybe 98% of ESO won't even have it on 4, one of each Class.

Now that said, none of the abilities should be behind any Rank, Passives on the other hand can be walled up considering some are quite good. There are many reasons that most of ESO hates PvP, lag is probably #1, but the horrible grind is another reason, lack of "content" and fast combat (too much riding here and there) and ZoS's absolute refusal to give the Players Arena, Battlegrounds or any other form of small form PvP is certainly another reason.

I'm glad they decided on Rank 5, but even Rank 6 would been reasonable as well, since that can be gotten in a solid month of horrible Laggy-McExploitive-Lag to achieve PvP Rank 12.

Bahalul wrote: »

Give me all the Undaunted passives at level 5 then.

I gotta LOL dude, you can have Undaunted Passives at Undaunted 1 for all I care, they're almost worthless. Sure they have a little value but not much. And I gotta double LOL at people who actually compare Undaunted 7 (max for all Passives) to PvP Rank 24 (Alliance War Rank 10) which are not remotely the same time investment, not even close. I could get Undaunted 7 on all 8 Characters before I got PvP Rank 24 on 1 single toon, spending 4 hours each day doing PvP and 2 hours each day doing Dungeons.

I refuse to PVE.

Just like these PVErs refuse to PVP to get AR 10.

DeLindsay

Yes

Xael wrote: »

Actually no.
The most you are referring to, are probably carebears. You seem to forget this game is not comprised of just pvpers. A lot of people play this game for the storyline and raiding. I know quite a few people who never pvp. I know some who pvp just for skill unlocks. Then you have those that actually care about pvp.

This is the first game in a long time that has offered largescale pvp outside of instance that isn't auto attack / lock on friendly. The skillcap on PvP is much higher than other mmorpgs as you have to actively block and dodge, swing, weave, etc. Unlike you, I despise arenas, battlegrounds, and consensual instanced pvp. I think they are a heaping pile of sh*t and the reason world pvp in most games died or doesn't exist at all. I think Cyrodiil is fine and just needs tweaks and fixes. Moreover when Darkness Falls... I mean Imperial City releases, it will be even better, provided ZOS doesn't f*ck this up as well ( I won't hold my breath).

People want it easy. That's it in a nutshell. They want to be rewarded for as little effort as possible. Take a look around these forums, you will see the spirit of entitlement everywhere. It's ridiculous.

The majority of Players I know that outright hate the PvP in ESO are, ironically enough, PvPers by their own admission and would kill for ESO to have small form PvP like Arena, Battlegrounds or the like. And of those that I've listened to seemingly endlessly about why they hate it are because of the very reasons I listed.

ZoS had a great concept with Cyrodiil and completely dropped the ball on it's implementation and upkeep. I doubt you will find even one person left that will defend ZoS in regards to Cyro, and I have little doubt that ZoS is very aware of that. I myself was a huge ZoS defender and ESO fanboy until around November or so when I just couldn't deal with the lack of caring from the company. I'm not alone in this thought. I still play ESO but not to the extent I used to and at this point it's only because of good people I run with regularly, sadly even some of those have quit ESO entirely.

Also, I'm gonna have to call *** on the "people want it easy" comment. There is NOTHING "easy" about a year+ long horrible grind to get PvP Rank 24. People just want to not have to devote their entire life to a game which is exactly what you have to do right now to gain access to Vigor. Besides, many Players in ESO have jobs and kids and literally don't have the time to invest in PvP to gain Rank to that level and may never see that level even if PvP'ing is all they do when they play. Which is why I stated abilities should NEVER be behind stupid long grinds. The only reason ZoS even did that was that they actually thought it would get more Players to PvP. It had the exact opposite effect after people fully realized just how long it would take them to grind out.

iseko

No

10 does seem high... But rank 5?? Trolololololol. You can get that in a day if you do it right. A week as a casual. 7 at the lowest. Id prefer 8-9. Not bothered with keeping it at 10.. But if you put it on 7-8-9 more casual players (people with jobs/kids) who just log in to pvp 2-3 nights a week and shun pve like the black plague, will also be able to get vigor.

Ps: i have a full time job and a life. So I play about 2-3 nights a week. Maybe 4 hours every time. I have two toons vr14 alliance rank 8 and 9. Im not bothered with not having acces to it. Just like im not bothered that im never gonna be emperor. Would be nice though if vigor would be rank 8-9. Sibce rank 10 is a loooong ways off for me. But like I said: not bothered about it. The skill is strong so it should be hard to get.