Should Vigor only take ALLIANCE RANK 5 TO GET?

Kas

Imho vigor could be available earlier on, since some stam builds really want a heal.
however, i think there should be good (highly useful) skills available only at 10 or, preferably, even later.

progression is what makes this games fun. maybe daoc realm abilities were slightly over the top, where a group of fresh maxlevel chars had pretty much no way to win against a group of high-RRs even if played perfectly. But I really really liek the idea of long-term goals in PvP: Something comparable to the impact of a level of combat frenzy at ARank 30, 35, 40, 45 and 50.

Keron

In this thread: People posting their alliance rank.

I have a sinking feeling that the alliance skill line rank proposed by many of the posters here is at or slightly below the rank they have achieved already.

I am rank 8 ½ (AR20 since yesterday) and I would love to have it restricted to alliance skill line rank 8 - I have it and a lot of others who haven't yet reached this level don't.

But then I think of my other chars... and suddenly skill line rank 5 is much more attractive.

What I try to say: it's relatively simple to set high standards if you have already exceeded them. Vigor IS a powerful ability and I can't wait to finally have it. On the other hand it is for sure less of an "I win"-button than for example Wrecking Blow or Crit Rush, which have (almost) no restriction. It offers less utility than Caltrops or Barrier, both of which are skill line rank 6.

If I am completely honest with myself, the only gripe I have with Vigor at skill line rank 5 is loss of the feeling of superiority to be one of the few who have it. Even as a sustain-based stamina build, will you really be able to spam vigor for extended periods of time, and afterwards still have the resources available to actually cash in the benefit?

Septimus_Magna

Vigor will be available from Alliance Rank 5 in the next big update after the console release in June.
In this update the Nirnhoned value will also be adjusted to be more in line with the other armor traits.

Information directly from ZOS statement about Vigor and nirnhoned

Lava_Croft

No

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Vigor will be available from Alliance Rank 5 in the next big update after the console release in June.
In this update the Nirnhoned value will also be adjusted to be more in line with the other armor traits.

Information directly from ZOS statement about Vigor and nirnhoned

I guess this means PvP players can look forward to lowered requirements for Undaunted passives?

Lhorion

No

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Vigor will be available from Alliance Rank 5 in the next big update after the console release in June.
In this update the Nirnhoned value will also be adjusted to be more in line with the other armor traits.

Information directly from ZOS statement about Vigor and nirnhoned

I guess this means PvP players can look forward to lowered requirements for Undaunted passives?

And 2x masterweapon after a run DSA!!!!!!

Ofc .......
...
...
not

Cthalion

No

Don't change it at all please

OdinForge

No

Lava_Croft wrote: »

If I can get the Undaunted passives at Undaunted Level 3, you can have your overpowered Stamina heal at Alliance rank 5.

As good as it is, hard to really consider it overpowered. No one running vigor will be an easy kill, but i think there are other factors involved that mask the true effectiveness (like roll dodge and rally). Vigor is really supplemental, i still use rally to get back most of my HP in a burst.

Outside of PvP it's pretty worthless IMHO, in places like DSA or other endgame content chances are you're dead in the timeframe you pop vigor. Again if anything might save me it would be rally or my healer.

akray21

Yes

Garion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

You mean like we have to grind your boring PvE dungeons to get decent gear?

The best PvE gear is earned in PvP...

ToRelax

Yes

akray21 wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

You mean like we have to grind your boring PvE dungeons to get decent gear?

The best PvE gear is earned in PvP...

Anc can be bought. Great. Seriously, I do like that I can sell my AP atm, but that is because you don't get money out of PvP otherwise. Look, you brought just up 2 things favoring PvE over PvP .

Rohaus

No

5 is too low.

7-8 is a better expectation.



"You Get Out What You Put In"

WRX

No

I pvp'd for a few hours on the non-vet and got to assault/support rank 5.

This is ridiculous. I think it should stay 10, but 8 wouldn't be terrible.

ToRelax

Yes

WRX wrote: »

I pvp'd for a few hours on the non-vet and got at AR 5.

This is ridiculous. I think it should stay 10, but 8 wouldn't be terrible.

And your point? What has alliance rank 5 to do with assault skill line level 5 exactly?

WRX

No

ToRelax wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I pvp'd for a few hours on the non-vet and got at AR 5.

This is ridiculous. I think it should stay 10, but 8 wouldn't be terrible.

And your point? What has alliance rank 5 to do with assault skill line level 5 exactly?

Meant assault rank. And my point is even a monkey could hit this in a day or two. Makes no sense, and I now think the skill should be weaker when you first get it, and increase as you increase in support ranks.

ToRelax

Yes

WRX wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I pvp'd for a few hours on the non-vet and got at AR 5.

This is ridiculous. I think it should stay 10, but 8 wouldn't be terrible.

And your point? What has alliance rank 5 to do with assault skill line level 5 exactly?

Meant assault rank. And my point is even a monkey could hit this in a day or two. Makes no sense, and I now think the skill should be weaker when you first get it, and increase as you increase in support ranks.

With the system from single player TES games in mind I thought that every skills would get stronger with levelling their skill line when the game first launched - it makes sense and I don't see any downsides, so I am all for it.

deleted221205-002626

No

A fresh lvl 10 could hit alliance rank 5 in one day! 10 is more reasonable imo.

Sanct16

No

no but make alliance ranks share accountwide

Cenion

Yes

I think it is too important skill to be behind such of a big barrier. I am biased on this. I really like playing dual-wielding nightblade in pvp, but I feel it just is not very competitive right now. Having a heal would be a big step towards making it more equal with 2 handers.

On the other hand I really like having goals and having a strong skill at the end of assault (and support) skill lines really is a good motivator. Maybe it could be solved by adding a stamina heal somewhere else and making vigor basically an upgrade over that.

Detector

No

8-9 rank may be.

Keron

Too many people confuse Alliance Rank and Alliance Skill Line Rank. The first is gained quickly for the starting 10 ranks. But to gain Skill Line Rank 10 (current gate for Vigor) means you have to be Alliance Rank 24. That is in total 7 million AP and that takes long.

A casual PvP player makes maybe 20'000 AP a day. That means 350 days of PvP.

Alliance Skill Line Rank 5 (the newly proposed gate by ZOS) is achieved by the time you reach Alliance Rank 9, which means 326'000 AP, is reached much quicker.

The proposed intermediate solution, Alliance Skill Line Rank 8, means roughly 2.8 million AP or Alliance Rank 18. This is a much more reasonable gate than 5. It makes the grind for it half as long as it is currently while still making it necessary to work for it.

Erock25

Yes

Keron wrote: »

Too many people confuse Alliance Rank and Alliance Skill Line Rank. The first is gained quickly for the starting 10 ranks. But to gain Skill Line Rank 10 (current gate for Vigor) means you have to be Alliance Rank 24. That is in total 7 million AP and that takes long.

A casual PvP player makes maybe 20'000 AP a day. That means 350 days of PvP.

Alliance Skill Line Rank 5 (the newly proposed gate by ZOS) is achieved by the time you reach Alliance Rank 9, which means 326'000 AP, is reached much quicker.

The proposed intermediate solution, Alliance Skill Line Rank 8, means roughly 2.8 million AP or Alliance Rank 18. This is a much more reasonable gate than 5. It makes the grind for it half as long as it is currently while still making it necessary to work for it.

Wow. I did not know assault all rank 5 only took 326k ap. That's a bit low. I think 2.8mil is still a little high though. I've spent a significant amount of my playing time in cyrodiil and I've just past that number. 800k - 1mil sounds about right to me personally. In reach for a casual player after a couple of months. I still think my preferred option is account wide alliance rank. I'm fine with rank 10 and 7mil ap if I can work towards it with any of my characters.

Septimus_Magna

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Vigor will be available from Alliance Rank 5 in the next big update after the console release in June.
In this update the Nirnhoned value will also be adjusted to be more in line with the other armor traits.

Information directly from ZOS statement about Vigor and nirnhoned

I guess this means PvP players can look forward to lowered requirements for Undaunted passives?

PVE-players will always get PVP stuff easily, all the pvp sets are BOE so they can be bought. But PVP-players will have a hard time getting good pve stuff, monster sets and master weapons are BOP which means they cant be bought.

Hopefully Imperial City will bring some advantages for pvp-players, like BOP gear thats actually worth getting.

Cenion

Yes

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

PVE-players will always get PVP stuff easily, all the pvp sets are BOE so they can be bought. But PVP-players will have a hard time getting good pve stuff, monster sets and master weapons are BOP which means they cant be bought.

Hopefully Imperial City will bring some advantages for pvp-players, like BOP gear thats actually worth getting.

I think you are on this with a very negative perspective. There is the other side to these items as well.

PVP players will always have an easy time earning gold by selling their sets because they are BOE.
PVE players will always have a hard time making money because master weapons are BOP and cannot be sold.

Think positive!

Derra

No

Good thing is - with vigor rank requirement basically removed it´s going to get the nerfbat pretty soon after this change

Septimus_Magna

Cenion wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

PVE-players will always get PVP stuff easily, all the pvp sets are BOE so they can be bought. But PVP-players will have a hard time getting good pve stuff, monster sets and master weapons are BOP which means they cant be bought.

Hopefully Imperial City will bring some advantages for pvp-players, like BOP gear thats actually worth getting.

I think you are on this with a very negative perspective. There is the other side to these items as well.

PVP players will always have an easy time earning gold by selling their sets because they are BOE.
PVE players will always have a hard time making money because master weapons are BOP and cannot be sold.

Think positive!

And what do you do with all your money as PVP player? You cant buy monster sets and master weapons so you wont get any stronger (assuming you have the desired pvp sets which are BOE). Its just strange the difference is so big, you can have the most OP pvp gear without actually doing pvp, you cant get the most OP pve gear without doing pve. And even worse, you cant get OP pvp gear without doing a lot of pve.

Personally I dont mind doing both pve and pvp but its strange players who only like to pvp have to do pve in order to be successful in pvp.

ToRelax

Yes

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Cenion wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

PVE-players will always get PVP stuff easily, all the pvp sets are BOE so they can be bought. But PVP-players will have a hard time getting good pve stuff, monster sets and master weapons are BOP which means they cant be bought.

Hopefully Imperial City will bring some advantages for pvp-players, like BOP gear thats actually worth getting.

I think you are on this with a very negative perspective. There is the other side to these items as well.

PVP players will always have an easy time earning gold by selling their sets because they are BOE.
PVE players will always have a hard time making money because master weapons are BOP and cannot be sold.

Think positive!

And what do you do with all your money as PVP player? You cant buy monster sets and master weapons so you wont get any stronger (assuming you have the desired pvp sets which are BOE). Its just strange the difference is so big, you can have the most OP pvp gear without actually doing pvp, you cant get the most OP pve gear without doing pve. And even worse, you cant get OP pvp gear without doing a lot of pve.

Personally I dont mind doing both pve and pvp but its strange players who only like to pvp have to do pve in order to be successful in pvp.

I use most of my gold for tripots.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Yes

The best thing would be making alliance rank account wide. But as long as this is not going to happen, rank requirements should be lower, so people could make alts and get the skills in a reasonable amout of time.

The_Drexill

No

Pvpers have to do the awful vet grind, personal can do a month of alliance rank grind.

jelliedsoup

Level 5 will kill it.

I'm 8 but would have no problem with 7.

BrassRazoo

Yes

Easy answer for me.
I'm only level 8 so go figure.
Oh and I won't use Vigor, but I want just because.

Amiarah

No

NO.

This game is easy enough as it is. I don´t have it yet, but I´m working on it.
Too many whiners that don´t know how to work hard for something you want imo.
Don´t dumb this game down even more pretty please.