Should Vigor only take ALLIANCE RANK 5 TO GET?

Sheezabeast

No

I think lowering it is a bit unrewarding. I recently got to 7 and was happy, and looking forward to working more towards 10, but this kinda takes the wind out of my sail a bit...but overall, it won't be catastrophic, it'll either *** people off and make them rage quit or it'll just be a way to get more people to be active in PVP. It has ups and downs...With everything else broken on the site why would they take time to do this?

olsborg

Yes

Yea I cant believe they are leaving nirnhoned on armor for june, its like a slap in my subscriptions face, seriously.

DDuke

No

No.

This game is already severely lacking in incentivized content, making Vigor require only 5 would be a big mistake.

If it was up to me, I'd create new skill ranks and have it require 12 or 14. This is coming from someone who is still 4 ranks away from unlocking it (20 at the moment).

You simply don't keep long term players around by removing their incentives to play, and this is a trend I've been seeing with this game (and many others); developers building their content around short term audience (quick money) instead of long term (sustained revenue).

Cody

No

Xael wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

There are many reasons that most of ESO hates PvP, lag is probably #1, but the horrible grind is another reason, lack of "content" and fast combat (too much riding here and there) and ZoS's absolute refusal to give the Players Arena, Battlegrounds or any other form of small form PvP is certainly another reason.

Actually no.
The most you are referring to, are probably carebears. You seem to forget this game is not comprised of just pvpers. A lot of people play this game for the storyline and raiding. I know quite a few people who never pvp. I know some who pvp just for skill unlocks. Then you have those that actually care about pvp.

This is the first game in a long time that has offered largescale pvp outside of instance that isn't auto attack / lock on friendly. The skillcap on PvP is much higher than other mmorpgs as you have to actively block and dodge, swing, weave, etc. Unlike you, I despise arenas, battlegrounds, and consensual instanced pvp. I think they are a heaping pile of [snip] and the reason world pvp in most games died or doesn't exist at all. I think Cyrodiil is fine and just needs tweaks and fixes. Moreover when Darkness Falls... I mean Imperial City releases, it will be even better, provided ZOS doesn't [snip] this up as well ( I won't hold my breath).

People want it easy. That's it in a nutshell. They want to be rewarded for as little effort as possible. Take a look around these forums, you will see the spirit of entitlement everywhere. It's ridiculous.

PvP is full of lag and a huge lack of balance. It is far from "fine"

entitlement and skill have little to do with it. ZOS just cant seem to fix their PVP after 9 months.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Cagro

Yes

PVP players want to compete not grind. I even think the champion system is a mistake because some of us have limited time to play. I hate losing for not having time to grind an ability or enough champion points. The one thing I like about Guild Wars 2's PVP was that did not force you to grind.

OrphanHelgen

It could be rank 10, if alliance rank was accountwide. Simple sollutions offer me a job plox

Joy_Division

No

Yes and No. Poll really needs other options.

I am of the opinion the Alliance ranks should in some manner be account wide and unlocking the vigor skill once the account has accumulated enough AP to be Alliance rank 10 (isn't technically Assualt rank?).

Draxys

No

Yet another potential decision to cater to whining instead of making sure things are balanced. 5 is too low. Is 10 too high? Not sure.

It has taken me months of trying to get a good valkyn skoria helm. I'm not a PvE person. I wouldn't do it if I didn't want to be as competitive as possible in Cyrodiil. Any PvEer who wants a good skill from the PvP line should have to work for it like I've had to work for a decent piece of gear from PvE.

Snit

Yes

They have to make Vigor easy to get. It's a very powerful skill in both PvE and PvP, and it's difficult to balance a game when a small percentage of players have access to a disproportionately powerful skill.

Samadhi

No

Do not currently have Vigor on any of my characters.
This change will give me Vigor on all of my characters.

Hopefully they will nerf the skill down to accommodate for the ease of obtaining it after the change -- if the skill is going to be ridiculously easy to access the effectiveness of the skill need be toned down otherwise it will simply become standard and expected in all Stamina builds.

At Rank 10 the skill is balanced and rewarding for those that put in the effort to get it.

Draxys

No

I'm just wondering why the poll is at 60/39... WHO/WHAT/WHERE IS THE OTHER 1%???

Ara_Valleria

No

I say make it alliance rank 7. I think you have to put a fair amount of time and dedication into pvp to get to 7, and that makes it fair since Vigor is a really powerful ability.
Making it alliance rank 5 will be like giving the ability for free.

You need to put in alot of time and effort to get PVE gear. So you must put atleast a good amount of time to get Strong PVP abilities too.

Simple. Logical. Fair.


#YouShouldn'tGetWhatYouDidn'tEarn

Ley

Yes

I don't see why you should have to spend months pvping, just to have the same skills as someone, it just puts pvpers on more even playing fields a bit faster. Players already spend months getting to vr14, to be more competitive. This is even more relevant to players who want to pvp on more than one character.

ToRelax

Yes

Draxys wrote: »

I'm just wondering why the poll is at 60/39... WHO/WHAT/WHERE IS THE OTHER 1%???

Do the maths yourself - I'm sure you'll get to it eventually.

Spangla

Yes

WAIT WHAT? YEA VIGOR CAN BE RANK 5 IF MUDCRABS DROP MASTER WEAPONS

Knootewoot

No

No

I played the game from start and started PvP when i was about lvl 15. Played 9 months to get rank 10 to get Vigor. Even took 2 months off to level a character in Arche Age to lvl 50 and 2 toons in SWTOR to 49 and 50.

And i didn't exploit. Got my rank to 24 and had alliance rank 10 and BOOM after 9 months.

And now some people don't have it and want instant gratification.


If that is the case. I want solo craglorn, undaunted pieces for AP and shield stacking on my NB


Edit: And we all know it is the PvE grinding people who ask for this. People who only enter cyyrodil when max level and have the best pieces before they have the courage to enter. But then they find out there was shards and skills in PvP. "OH NOES i have to play again to achieve something"

JLB

No

Rank 8 minimum imo.

ToRelax

Yes

Knootewoot wrote: »

No

I played the game from start and started PvP when i was about lvl 15. Played 9 months to get rank 10 to get Vigor. Even took 2 months off to level a character in Arche Age to lvl 50 and 2 toons in SWTOR to 49 and 50.

And i didn't exploit. Got my rank to 24 and had alliance rank 10 and BOOM after 9 months.

And now some people don't have it and want instant gratification.


If that is the case. I want solo craglorn, undaunted pieces for AP and shield stacking on my NB


Edit: And we all know it is the PvE grinding people who ask for this. People who only enter cyyrodil when max level and have the best pieces before they have the courage to enter. But then they find out there was shards and skills in PvP. "OH NOES i have to play again to achieve something"

There was no Vigor when you were leveling your alliance rank. What you got from it are passsives that no one asked to be made accessible on a lower level here.

Also no, I am asking for this change and I am not one of your "PvE grinding people". My main is AR 35 now, just with solo and small group playstyle.

Edit: Sorry, just saw what you meant by "PvE grinding people". Not one of those either way, I entered Cyro on lvl11 and got emp on V3 cauz' I didn't leave...

jelliedsoup

I'm on level 8 almost 9 and it really is a hell of a grind to get to 10.

5 is low and 10 is still light years off.

Lhorion

No

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

I hate pve, but maybe I need boneshield, the orb, the undauntes passive?
ESO has pve AND pvp. No reason why everyone should get every skill without working hard. I did every dungeon and maaaaany daily quests for passives, skills and 2-piece-sets.

And btw... Vigor is nice, but there are ways to handle it without. If you want it: Invest much time in pvp like I had to do in pve.

Emma_Overload

Yes

Lhorion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

I hate pve, but maybe I need boneshield, the orb, the undauntes passive?
ESO has pve AND pvp. No reason why everyone should get every skill without working hard. I did every dungeon and maaaaany daily quests for passives, skills and 2-piece-sets.

And btw... Vigor is nice, but there are ways to handle it without. If you want it: Invest much time in pvp like I had to do in pve.

I don't have a problem with investing my time but the difference in time required to max out Assault Rank is at least 2 orders of magnitude greater than what is required for similar PvE skill lines. You can max out Mages Guild in a SINGLE DAY by wandering around collecting lorebooks. That is in no way comparable to a 6+ month grind for PvP. Heck, I've read posts by PvPers who have been playing since launch who STILL don't have Vigor... and these are people who actually enjoy PvP!

.

timidobserver

No

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

I am not rank 10. I don't have vigor, and I also agree that rank 5 is too low.

Lhorion

No

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

I hate pve, but maybe I need boneshield, the orb, the undauntes passive?
ESO has pve AND pvp. No reason why everyone should get every skill without working hard. I did every dungeon and maaaaany daily quests for passives, skills and 2-piece-sets.

And btw... Vigor is nice, but there are ways to handle it without. If you want it: Invest much time in pvp like I had to do in pve.

I don't have a problem with investing my time but the difference in time required to max out Assault Rank is at least 2 orders of magnitude greater than what is required for similar PvE skill lines. You can max out Mages Guild in a SINGLE DAY by wandering around collecting lorebooks. That is in no way comparable to a 6+ month grind for PvP. Heck, I've read posts by PvPers who have been playing since launch who STILL don't have Vigor... and these are people who actually enjoy PvP!

.

I need a Master flame staff with sharpened.
I did Dragonstar Arena many times and I do pvp. I have all all Kind of master weapons, most of them twice, but not the right one. So I have to do pve until I have it. Getting the one weapon with the one trait needs to to pve for a long time, too. For grinding those weapons you need a good group each run.
For grinding AP you just need Rapid Regeneration or a zerg which you can join by typing "elite", "pact" OR stuff like this.
In ESO as a pvp player you need to do pve (questing, grinding skilllines, grinding 2-piece sets, grinding master weapons, maybe SO for some loot) if you want those things.
And in ESO as a pve player you need to do pvp (buffs, elite gear [which you can buy], alliance skills).

So stop crying!
But you can be happy.... They will nerf it to Alliance rank 5 so you can get it after a week.

Cody

No

Lhorion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

I hate pve, but maybe I need boneshield, the orb, the undauntes passive?
ESO has pve AND pvp. No reason why everyone should get every skill without working hard. I did every dungeon and maaaaany daily quests for passives, skills and 2-piece-sets.

And btw... Vigor is nice, but there are ways to handle it without. If you want it: Invest much time in pvp like I had to do in pve.

I don't have a problem with investing my time but the difference in time required to max out Assault Rank is at least 2 orders of magnitude greater than what is required for similar PvE skill lines. You can max out Mages Guild in a SINGLE DAY by wandering around collecting lorebooks. That is in no way comparable to a 6+ month grind for PvP. Heck, I've read posts by PvPers who have been playing since launch who STILL don't have Vigor... and these are people who actually enjoy PvP!

.

I need a Master flame staff with sharpened.
I did Dragonstar Arena many times and I do pvp. I have all all Kind of master weapons, most of them twice, but not the right one. So I have to do pve until I have it. Getting the one weapon with the one trait needs to to pve for a long time, too. For grinding those weapons you need a good group each run.
For grinding AP you just need Rapid Regeneration or a zerg which you can join by typing "elite", "pact" OR stuff like this.
In ESO as a pvp player you need to do pve (questing, grinding skilllines, grinding 2-piece sets, grinding master weapons, maybe SO for some loot) if you want those things.
And in ESO as a pve player you need to do pvp (buffs, elite gear [which you can buy], alliance skills).

So stop crying!
But you can be happy.... They will nerf it to Alliance rank 5 so you can get it after a week.

I've been PvPing since beta(with my VR14; at least 9 months) and i still do not have vigor:(

not everyone who is complaining about the grind is a PvEr, some of us are hardcore PvPers who have already put in more PvP than almost everyone else in the game; dang right some of us are going to be frustrated we need to do 3 more months of grinding. I've already PvPed for 9+ months! what more do you want?

rank 7 or 8 is fine imo. 10 is simply to high. If i still do not have AR10(in the skill line) after over 9 months of PvPing, then that clearly means its too high. 7 or 8 will still require some work, but will not be unattainiable for such a huge amount of the PvP player base.

PeggymoeXD

No

I just recently got AR23 (24 is the AR you are required to have for Alliance War level 10 if I'm not mistaken) and vigor is what I've been grinding for these past few months. So this change definitely pissed me off some. This is a skill that needs to be worked for, and I'm tired of changes such as these being implemented just because some PvE'ers got whiny again.

I was already punked by ZOS when they made motifs purchasable in the crown store, given that I spent countless hours farming every single one myself because I wanted the "Motif Master Brown" dye. Don't make these hours I've earned AP all for nothing too. It's starting to irritate me the obvious road this game is going down.

"Well there is no mandatory sub fee, so why make the game something to invest time in! Let's just make everything way easier to get now."

ToRelax

Yes

PeggymoeXD wrote: »

I just recently got AR23 (24 is the AR you are required to have for Alliance War level 10 if I'm not mistaken) and vigor is what I've been grinding for these past few months. So this change definitely pissed me off some. This is a skill that needs to be worked for, and I'm tired of changes such as these being implemented just because some PvE'ers got whiny again.

I was already punked by ZOS when they made motifs purchasable in the crown store, given that I spent countless hours farming every single one myself because I wanted the "Motif Master Brown" dye. Don't make these hours I've earned AP all for nothing too. It's starting to irritate me the obvious road this game is going down.

"Well there is no mandatory sub fee, so why make the game something to invest time in! Let's just make everything way easier to get now."

I do agree on the motifs, but Vigor is an important skill in most stamina builds now.
Rank 7 or 8 for Vigor would be good, but 5 is way better than 10.

OdinForge

No

I disliked the idea of vigor being rank 10, especially since my stamina alts are nowhere near 10.

But after owning the skill for several weeks now, i understand why lowering it to 5 would be a bad idea. Maybe like rank 7 lowest 9 highest.

Lava_Croft

No

If I can get the Undaunted passives at Undaunted Level 3, you can have your overpowered Stamina heal at Alliance rank 5.

Lhorion

No

Cody wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Lhorion wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Let me guess, OP is Alliance Rank 10 or higher?

Even at Rank 5, it's still going to take ages and ages for unenthusiastic PvP'ers (like myself) to get it. PvE'ers have been begging for a Stamina heal for months, and then when ZoS finally releases one, it's locked behind a 6 month horse simulation nightmare?

LOL, props to ZoS for doing something reasonable, for once!

.

I hate pve, but maybe I need boneshield, the orb, the undauntes passive?
ESO has pve AND pvp. No reason why everyone should get every skill without working hard. I did every dungeon and maaaaany daily quests for passives, skills and 2-piece-sets.

And btw... Vigor is nice, but there are ways to handle it without. If you want it: Invest much time in pvp like I had to do in pve.

I don't have a problem with investing my time but the difference in time required to max out Assault Rank is at least 2 orders of magnitude greater than what is required for similar PvE skill lines. You can max out Mages Guild in a SINGLE DAY by wandering around collecting lorebooks. That is in no way comparable to a 6+ month grind for PvP. Heck, I've read posts by PvPers who have been playing since launch who STILL don't have Vigor... and these are people who actually enjoy PvP!

.

I need a Master flame staff with sharpened.
I did Dragonstar Arena many times and I do pvp. I have all all Kind of master weapons, most of them twice, but not the right one. So I have to do pve until I have it. Getting the one weapon with the one trait needs to to pve for a long time, too. For grinding those weapons you need a good group each run.
For grinding AP you just need Rapid Regeneration or a zerg which you can join by typing "elite", "pact" OR stuff like this.
In ESO as a pvp player you need to do pve (questing, grinding skilllines, grinding 2-piece sets, grinding master weapons, maybe SO for some loot) if you want those things.
And in ESO as a pve player you need to do pvp (buffs, elite gear [which you can buy], alliance skills).

So stop crying!
But you can be happy.... They will nerf it to Alliance rank 5 so you can get it after a week.

I've been PvPing since beta(with my VR14; at least 9 months) and i still do not have vigor:(

not everyone who is complaining about the grind is a PvEr, some of us are hardcore PvPers who have already put in more PvP than almost everyone else in the game; dang right some of us are going to be frustrated we need to do 3 more months of grinding. I've already PvPed for 9+ months! what more do you want?

rank 7 or 8 is fine imo. 10 is simply to high. If i still do not have AR10(in the skill line) after over 9 months of PvPing, then that clearly means its too high. 7 or 8 will still require some work, but will not be unattainiable for such a huge amount of the PvP player base.

Solutions might be an accountwide Alliance Rank or a nerf to rank 8-9.
But rank 5 is much to easy. Sure - Vigor is good, but it is not a must have.
I do pve since beta, too. I don't have the master weapon i need and I need one last part of wormcult.

Soulac

No

PvP players need to spend dozens of days for important passives / skills (orb) and untradeable undaunted sets while PvE players should be able to achieve an important skill shortly after joining cyrodiil while being able to buy the items they need.

Ok.