Treasure chests should be more rare, more challenging, and more exciting to find.

Dahveed

I've been exploring a lot in the last couple days for various reasons (searching for Ore, using my treasure maps, just riding around for fun etc) and one thing I have noticed is the sheer ubiquity of treasure chests out in the world. I can't go for a couple minutes at a time, it seems, without stumbling across yet another chest, to the point where it almost feels like a pain in the butt to open them.

This made me think of three different points:

1 - They are WAY too easy to open. Childishly so, in fact. I have yet to ever fail to open a treasure chest, even an "advanced" lock. There is no challenge or excitement when I find a chest. Just click on it and it's a guaranteed win.

2 - They get boring to open; there is no sense of thrill when I find one. There is nothing exciting about finding a chest. It's just going to have the same thing every time - a few gold pieces and one or two green items I will just vendor or deconstruct. That's fine, I suppose... I could use the extra crafting material. But very boring.

3 - This just isn't realistic or immersive. (I know it's a video game with wizards demons etc... humor me anyways.) It just seems like an artificial mechanic just thrown in there as a "reward" for exploration, but just doesn't make any real sense. Why would thousands of treasure chests be littered throughout the entire world, behind every tree and under every shadow?

It seems to me that chests would be a much more fun element in the game if they were harder to find, harder to open, and thus had much better rewards. Instead of the tedium of feeling almost obligated to open chests every 45 seconds for green crap and pocket change, perhaps finding only one (or if you are very lucky, two) chests with very sweet loot every couple hours of play would be more exciting?

Then when you did find it, oh boy would you have to concentrate trying to open it, because it would be a difficult thing to do. If you suck at it, too bad, you fail. With the new "ledgermain" talent tree, they could make it so that players could choose talents to facilitate lockpicking, just as Skyrim did. But you'd still have to be skilled at playing the mini-game, or else other players could snatch your loot if you failed.

The chests could then have a tidy sum of gold and some really fun or rare items in them, making it a thrill to find rather than a bore. As it is now it almost feels like a typical MMO "grind" having to dismount every time I find one. It would be great - and more immersive and exciting - if my character felt like he really stumbled upon someone's hidden stash, and your fingers would tremble (both in role-play and IRL!) as you struggled to open it!

Just my two cents. What do you guys think?

Ealdor

I agree and was talking to guild members about the exact same issue this past weekend. Way too many and way too easy to pick. I like the idea of making them harder to find, harder to pick and less of them around with the payoff being better loot.

Dahveed

gdroebuckrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I agree and was talking to guild members about the exact same issue this past weekend. Way too many and way too easy to pick. I like the idea of making them harder to find, harder to pick and less of them around with the payoff being better loot.

Thanks for your support. I imagine that most players, when given the choice of "option A" (easy, crappy chests all over the place) or "option B" (difficult but rewarding treasure chests which are harder to find), would pick option B.

I sometimes wish I could be a lead designer on some of these MMO teams so I could slap some sense into these people! Lol.

max.ascione99nrb18_ESO

I am only VR9 and the chests i find never give anything decent anyway. Yeah i agree with you mate. I don't know if chests are worth in VR14 dungeons or craglorn.

Razzak

It's just another XP boost. You get more XP for opening your 300th easy chest, than you get for killing an opponent.
It doesn't take long for anyone to figure out there are only three different pin positions in a lock and opening them becomes just another repetitive content with no challenge.

P3ZZL3

Tend to agree with this. That being said, you didn't mention Master - which I think is above advanced?

There's 3 chests i tend to pick up in Craglorn and they almost always give next to nothing. 64g and some item that I sell for another 60 gold or so. Experience is 4k however, which is nice.

I can see the chests benefit for 1-50 - first time I found one was awesome...an that feeling stayed with me for a while.

I'd like to see maybe Master Chests placed in the wild, middle of no where type locations. A VERY large Random placement area for each chest. Gold in Color so you know it's special and it gives out a nice item from a feature set.

This way, bot's couldn't grind them (subject to spawn area being large enough with a solid RNG) and it pays for you to be an explorer.

Dahveed

Razzak wrote: »

It's just another XP boost. You get more XP for opening your 300th easy chest, than you get for killing an opponent.
It doesn't take long for anyone to figure out there are only three different pin positions in a lock and opening them becomes just another repetitive content with no challenge.

This is THE problem for MMOs I think. It's the trap that is the hardest to avoid in the entire market.

They always just assume that we want more loot, more xp, and to speed through asap to get to the end.

The best part about ES games is the exploration and discovery as you quested. I think this is one aspect of the game for which they truly missed the mark. It feels artificial and bland.

Ffastyl

There is an unmarked cave (no Objective marker on the map) in Malabal Tor. I discovered it while looking for unmarked locales after finding several in Cyrodiil, and at the end is a treasure chest. A keg lies off to the side, a sword and shield fallen near the chest. I approach to pick the lock and loot the contents when an odd sound rings out from behind... two skeletons rose from the ground, intent on stopping me from stealing their loot.

It was a normal treasure chest.
With an abnormal surprise.

P3ZZL3

And what, prey tell, great "treasure" did you find in said chest?

Nebthet78

I am going to say I disagree with you.

Treasure Chests are the only way for people who do not want anything to do with Stealing and Murdering in town to level up the Legermain skill line and it takes a long time at that just from opening the chests. The items inside also come in handy for deconstructing later on, or just selling. Every little bit of gold you make helps.

Additionally, in the lower zones, you get a lot more competition for them than you do at Vet levels so you don't usually come across them as often unless you have a map or know their spawn locations and are actively hunting them.

So unless they are willing to have them give much more gold, much better items and more of them, and a heck of a lot of XP to compensate for fewer chests. I would prefer they stay just how they are. No one is forcing you to open those chests when you come across them.

tengri

Chest numbers are fine.
You apparently were not around during the early months? Chests were very hard to find because there were so many other ppl around you snatching them away.
Even with TU we are no where near this level of competition these days and you can find "more" of them.

I do, however, agree on the "skill" required to pick them... but I still remember how incredible frustrating picking a lock was for me when I started to play. Until you figure out the kinks.
Changing too much here would probably do more harm than good.

GaldorP

I really like the system as it is now. All chests include gold and at least one green item so that's a guaranteed ~120 gold value in VR zones (equippable crafting material nodes [Nightwood/Void Bloom/Voidstone Ore], in comparison, are worth about 45-60 gold, including the value of tempers/resins you will get by refining the materials).

But then chests also have a low chance to include items from some rare sets which are very rare as drops from regular monsters. VR 10 chests, for example, may include Rings and Pendants of Soulshine that sold for 15k+ gold to other players on the EU server until the release of Update 6.
That was a real treasure and you could easily make a lot of gold searching for treasure chests for a few hours in your alliance's VR 10 zone. VR 11+ chests may include Martial Knowledge set items.

The system you propose with rare chests that include a guaranteed great treasure but are hard to open would require the chests to be personalized just like regular loot, in my opinion (so only you can see your chest).
Otherwise some people would camp/farm the spawn locations, train monsters on you to make your attempt to open the chest fail, try to steal the chest each time your attempt to open it fails.

I do agree that ESO lacks randomized really rare but really good rewards for most content. Basically, the gambling mechanic, that makes many games more exciting (there are games like Diablo 2 that rely almost exclusively on that mechanic; also, many indie games rely on randomized rewards/levels to add replay value).
In Korean grinders you often had extremely rare drops for almost any monster (in Ragnarok Online, for example, you had monster cards or full items that were better than the ones you could buy from merchants; in Lineage II, you had full item drops which were extremely rare and valuable).
In ESO, there's mainly the Boss Helmets (hard to find groups; cannot be traded so no market; shoulders greatly rely on luck and you get only one chance per day and character; some of the sets are ***; doing the same story-based instance over and over again is no fun).
There's some sets and rare items that can drop in trials and DSA. Again, most of these are bound so there's no market.
And there's the rare PvP sets (random per armor type). Luckily, these can be traded and there's an interesting market here. Unfortunately, the blue PvP reward bags require the same currency as siege weapons (that makes no sense in my opinion; siege weapons should have a separate resource that slowly builds up again up to a set maximum value; see PvP MMOGs like Planetside 2).

In a completely randomized system, you want there to be a market/the ability to trade.
In a system with bind on pickup gear that has to be earned, you want the gear to be really good and exactly what the player needs/wants with only minor variations.
(When the auction house in Diablo 3 was removed, the drops all became bind on pickup, but all dropped items have a high chance now to be of a type that's useful to your character).
Completely useless traits like sturdy should be removed/replaced.

But I digress
Why not make only the chests you find with treasure maps really rare and valuable (and of Master difficulty) but leave the other ones unchanged?

daemonios

Agreed. Additionally, if you get the Legerdemain passive for forcing locks, you don't even need to fumble with lockpicks for most of the chests and open them in 1 second.

I'd like to see fewer normal chests, way more treasure map locations (to make it harder to database them all) and a chance at actually getting decent loot (e.g. high-end gear, gold improvement mats, recipes, motifs) from them.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Treasure Chests are the only way for people who do not want anything to do with Stealing and Murdering in town to level up the Legermain skill line and it takes a long time at that just from opening the chests.

Yeah, but apart from the first passive the rest of the skill line only affects Justice activities in the first place, so leveling the Skill is largely irrelevant: and the passive that can be used outside of Justice affects Sneak which you'll already have tons of mitigation for if you play a 'sneaky' class/race (my Wood Elf can sneak without ever seeing the Stamina bar already) so that added saving from this skill line is pretty worthless anyway.

Chuggernaut

I think they are wayyy to easy too, but 3 of the people I play with regularly can only open simple locks and I've even sat with them and pointed out what they are doing wrong and they still cannot pop a lock that greater than simple.

As far as exciting loot, I think the chests you find from treasure maps have more/better stuff in them on average.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Dahveed wrote: »

The chests could then have a tidy sum of gold and some really fun or rare items in them

On release that's what they were like, usually got a 'blue' at least, rarely a 'purple'. The bots farmed them, ZOS nerfed them .. story of the game really, same thing can be said of delve bosses, XP grinds, etc.

Gidorick

I have 2 different threads that suggest mechanics that might address your concerns, support on these ideas would be appreciated!

Advanced lockpicking because it's WAY to easy to open a lock now.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/146487/advanced-lockpicking-concept-suggestion/p1

Player Driven Treasure Hunting
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150629/player-driven-treasure-hunting-concept

Slurg

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Dahveed wrote: »

The chests could then have a tidy sum of gold and some really fun or rare items in them

On release that's what they were like, usually got a 'blue' at least, rarely a 'purple'. The bots farmed them, ZOS nerfed them .. story of the game really, same thing can be said of delve bosses, XP grinds, etc.

I remember those days too. Chests were harder to find and someone else or a bot usually got there first. It seems chests were harder to open too but that was probably more reflective of my skill level before I got used to it. But yeah, like the other things there was a lot of bad behavior going on to get them in the early days. Now they're more something you stumble across than a competitive sport.

I like the new system and sometimes I do get something good out of the chests so it's worth it to me to stop and open them, even just for the XP boost. For people who don't think they're worthwhile, no one is forcing you to stop to open them. Don't feel pressured, really. Someone else will happen along to take it if you don't want it.

Also has anyone ever run into the treasure hunters in Cyrodiil who are digging up a buried treasure and will start fighting you when you start digging too? That's a fun way to get a chest. Maybe we could use more scenarios like that for the immersionists.

cyclonus11

I find advanced and master locks to be challenging enough and fail them frequently. I even fail on occasion with medium locks, and have even broken lockpicks on simple ones. I see people on occasion (including individuals who post their frustrations here) who have difficulty opening any lock. I don't think these decisions should be based on anecdotal evidence (i.e. one person's super awesome magical lock picking superhero abilities).

Athas24

I think the amount is fine but that maybe more should be at the master level and if they ARE at the Master level, they should have at least a piece of Blue loot in them every single time. I also tend to agree with the fact that chests are typically extremely easy to open but unfortunately I also know several people who have a very hard time understanding the mechanics of lock picking. They are constantly frustrated by not being able to open chests. For this reason, I enjoy the difficulty levels in chests and timers but I just wish there were more Master level locks with better loot behind said locks.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

And the loot should level with player.

AlnilamE

They also give you a chance at a soul gem. I can't remember the last time I had to buy those.

I like the chests as they are. Of course, in the higher zones with fewer people, you will get them more often because of less competition, but they are a good source of set items, some of which are very hard to come by if you are not the right level.

tcgoetzub17_ESO

I'd like to see some visual differentiation of the chests. Easy chests are smaller. Harder chests have bigger locks...

Jeremy

Going to side with those who like the current system.

Treasure chests are rare enough that I still appreciate finding them. Advanced/master locks require me to concentrate and don't leave a lot of room for error. So I'm not sure what the problem is here. Seems like trying to fix something that isn't broken to me.

If you invest skill points into lock picking they are suppose to made easier. If they weren't: what would be the purpose?

Nestor

Here is my idea for the Chests.

1. Level lock the chests, perhaps tie to the Legerdemain Skill. You have to be a certain rank in order to open a Master or Advanced or Intermediate chest. Loot is increased per level where Masters give one Gold item, Advanced Purple, Intermediate Blue. This along with the other stuff you get. Anyone can open Simple Chests and they give Green items.

Or

2. No levels on the chest, but the loot you get is based on the speed in which you pick the lock. Keep the picking mechanism the same as now. Legerdemain ranks can make this easier as you level. But this would give the skilled players a challenge (how fast they can do it) and the less nimble fingers can still get some loot.

All chests would have a small chance to spawn NPCs that are going to protect their loot and attack you while you are picking the lock, or they spawn just as you approach. Probably the latter. They could make the mobs harder or more numerous for the higher leveled chests if the chests remained leveled.

However the number of chest spawns and spawn rate would remain the same.

UrQuan

I have no problem with reducing the number of chests found in Vet zones, because in those zones it seems like you find them everywhere. In lower level zones, however, there is enough competition for chests (because there are many more players - especially since TU) that finding them (and getting to them first) is still a relatively rare and exciting experience (granted, it's more exciting for a newer player than for a vet leveling up an alt).

To me an ideal solution would be to increase the rewards in the chests, but have the number of chests present in a zone at any given time be scaled to the number of players in the zone. For example, (and I'm just throwing around random numbers here - I haven't taken any time to try to figure out if these numbers are reasonable) say the number is set to 1 chest for every 10 players in a zone. So if there are 100 players in a zone, there will be 10 chests spawned in that zone. If the number of players drops, no chests will de-spawn, but no new ones will spawn until the ratio of chests to players drops to lower than 1:10 again.

Of course, I have no idea how much effort would be involved in programming this.

Ffastyl wrote: »

There is an unmarked cave (no Objective marker on the map) in Malabal Tor. I discovered it while looking for unmarked locales after finding several in Cyrodiil, and at the end is a treasure chest. A keg lies off to the side, a sword and shield fallen near the chest. I approach to pick the lock and loot the contents when an odd sound rings out from behind... two skeletons rose from the ground, intent on stopping me from stealing their loot.

It was a normal treasure chest.
With an abnormal surprise.

Oh, I know that cave! Surprised me too. I love finding cool things like this, and I wish there were more. I seem to remember coming across something similar in the swamps of Shadowfen too.

Chuggernaut

AlnilamE wrote: »

They also give you a chance at a soul gem. I can't remember the last time I had to buy those.

I like the chests as they are. Of course, in the higher zones with fewer people, you will get them more often because of less competition, but they are a good source of set items, some of which are very hard to come by if you are not the right level.

lol, my enchanter is sitting on 196 grand soul gems thanks to writs and the soul magic ability to passively steal souls!

reften

Fine as is, just make 1 out of 100 master level...and make lockpicks break more often on those master level ones.

In the master level boxes...have rare loot that usually only drops in trials or pvp bags appear...along with yellow mats.

Hell, have yellow mats appear in all of them, just more rare the easier it is to pick.

I agree with the OP though, that finding a chest isn't much different than finding a wardrobe to loot.

DeathDealer19

I don't really agree that there are too many. You gotta take into consideration the amount of players out in the zones. too easy....meh lockpicking was never hard in Elder Scrolls and im okay with that. But the loot? its worthless like 99% of loot/drops in this game. Aside from farming chests for martial knowledge since that's the best LA set in the game right now, theres literally nothing else worth anything that comes from chests.

AlnilamE

Nestor wrote: »

Here is my idea for the Chests.

1. Level lock the chests, perhaps tie to the Legerdemain Skill. You have to be a certain rank in order to open a Master or Advanced or Intermediate chest. Loot is increased per level where Masters give one Gold item, Advanced Purple, Intermediate Blue. This along with the other stuff you get. Anyone can open Simple Chests and they give Green items.

Please don't. That's one of the things I hated about Fallout. If your arbitrary game "skill" wasn't high enough you couldn't open a lock regardless of how good you were at actually picking said lock. I like that you have less time for higher-leveled chests, but I don't want to be locked out from trying (though I remember seeing "Impossible" chests when I was lower level).

Chuggernaut wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

They also give you a chance at a soul gem. I can't remember the last time I had to buy those.

I like the chests as they are. Of course, in the higher zones with fewer people, you will get them more often because of less competition, but they are a good source of set items, some of which are very hard to come by if you are not the right level.

lol, my enchanter is sitting on 196 grand soul gems thanks to writs and the soul magic ability to passively steal souls!

Oh yeah! Those are a great way to get soul gems too!

Dahveed

To me it seems like the people who are saying they are fine now have a very different attitude than I do towards loot in general in a game like this.

It seems that for you, finding something like a treasure chest would be just part of a normal "game mechanic" that the player is entitled to find, in order to level up your ledgermain skill, grind gold and deconstruct items to grind your professions.

I suppose it's just a fundamental difference about what the game should be about and how this element of the game should work. I see these chests as a missed opportunity for exploration, adventure, and fun. You guys see it as a successful mechanic which you are entitled to in order to progress your toon.

Fair enough, but you know what? They are BORING. That is what inevitably happens with MMOs, the way I see them. It's what happened with WoW. When they changed everything (especially with Cataclysm) they just nerfed everything and made it all "efficient", so that there was no sense of challenge or adventure anywhere in the world.

THAT is the biggest difference. I want finding a chest to be FUN and interesting, not FAIR and balanced. Okay, so the few rare chests that will exist in the world will be farmed by bots. So what? That just means I will find them less often. I'll explore for a couple hours in my play session, NOT find a treasure chest... and my heart will still keep beating. Other fun things exist in the world to keep me playing.

But if I DO find a chest? Well things just got 100 times more exciting and interesting, didn't they? I found something different, something rare, something worth getting excited about. Not just another "*** hum" treasure chest with green crap in it.

Finally, a note on difficulty. This may sound harsh... but cry me a river. If people find these locks too difficult, then I'm sorry, video games just aren't for you. Go play cribbage with your grandmother instead. This is perhaps the easiest mini-game I have ever seen in my life. And I SUCK at video games, here at age 38.

It seems that everyone expects MMOs to nerf themselves to the absolute lowest common denominator nowadays. If a small percentage of the player base can't achieve something, just lower the bar? Come on. That is a HORRIBLE mentality that just ruins games. Players should rise to the challenge; they shouldn't expect games to lower to their level.