Armor & Weapon designs are boring

demonaffinity

Turelus wrote: »

I think they're trying to stay in style with previous TES games.

They have shown of concept for new motifs, sets etc. in the past which are a bit more extreme but for the most part they have kept it simple inside the lore.

I have to laugh how here the community wants more extremes but back in SWTOR everyone was angry there was nothing normal or bland to use.

Read the very bottom of my OP please.

Khivas_Carrick

Robbmrp wrote: »

The Battleaxe needs to be increased in size by 25%. They shouldn't look like a smaller version 5% bigger. The ones in the game now look like they would be perfect size for a 14 year old not a V14....

You know I made a topic about that very thing and got flamed for it.

phesserb14_ESO

Tend to agree on this as well... even like the end game gear some of it is super plan... there is that one helm (that procs meteor) that looks like it was rendered in a low resolution, looks silly...

GW2 i think does a fairly good job on cosmetics, WOW does pretty well as well... visuals are definitely very "bland" overall...

MaxBat

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Good grief, those examples from the other games are ugly as sin!

Well said.

MaxBat

I'm going one step further to add that this: one fear I had when I saw the early ESO game images was that the armor and weapons would be too WOW-inspired with crazy ultra-fantastic designs that would be completely unrealistic.

But now I actually like the armor and weapons - except for the recent changes to certain armor types. I think they are consistent with TES games in the past and one think I always liked about TES weapon/armor design was that it was functional and not ridiculous. A swords was, dammit, a sword - not a lightning rod or some kind of demonic puzzle piece, but a sword, the purpose of which was quite clear from looking at the damn thing.

Armor was protective and functional - even the "insect" inspired armor of Morrowind. All in all, I'm happy and satisfied.

Obscure

amasuriel wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

You used GW2 as an example?

A game with a bow that literally fires rainbow unicorns!?

...I'm going to disregard aesthetic recommendations for ESO based on anything that comes out of GW2... Don't get me wrong, I like GW2 in its own right, but it's a far cry from the design intent of ESO.

Sure sure, ESO's armour and weapon styles aren't flashy like Aion where every one is a walking laser light glow stick rave party. That's actually kinda the point in Elder Scrolls. Weapons and Armor in ESO aren't intended to be decorative for the most part, just functional. Simplicity in the designs however doesn't need to equate to ugly or boring designs, of which I will agree there are a few in ESO, but generally speaking the art direction in ESO is commendable. I rarely throw a compliment in ZOS' direction, but in this instance they've done a good job making most armour and weapons look interesting without embedding disco balls and glow sticks in them. Granted how aesthetically pleasing a given asset is boils down to personal taste, I personally don't find a great deal of examples that are remarkably poor. Just my opinion of course.

I think you are missing the OPs point a little. I also hate the mega-shouldered anime armors, but ESOs realistic designs are lacking.

The Dwemer armor and weapons are a prime example. Look at ESO vs Skyrim. In Skyrim the dwemer armor looks better. Better lines, better color saturation etc.

I like ESO for its realistic style as well, but realistic doesn't mean it can't look awesome and crisp. I actually fine ESO armor and weapons both more cartoony and less cool than Skyrim or Oblivion equivalents.

The level of fidelity in ESO can not nor will ever match the level of fidelity in Skyrim. This means the design team has to "cheat" to create realistic looks without being able to really refine the aesthetic. Intricacy of the design can only go so far in ESO, even with "cheating" to make it look better.

In less than just a couple years time (before 2017), games including MMO's will officially adopt 4k and 8k texture maps and use cloud processing to push physics based game engines for highly detailed geometry and higher poly counts in one asset than entire zones use in ESO. Especially with everything being converted from 32bit to 64bit precision these days, it's just a matter of ESO being to far behind the power curve in tech to service truly realistic design. Thus they virtually have to take a stylized approach as not to make the game appear as dated when compared to these truly next generation games by using a "more cartoony" buffer.

I will however concede some things can stand to be made to look better within a reasonable range that the game can tolerate without crossing into flagrantly flashy things screaming at your face. Personally I want cloth and cloak physics. The Havok physics engine is already in the game! All they use it for its NPC collision... what a waste, it's capable of so much more:

Dem physics yo... that's what Havok was built for.

Haxer

Wow look at all this people trolling the OP. He's saying that there is so much room for improvement while still staying within the realm of TES. And OP is right.

Armor from level 5 looks almost identical to my VR4 character. The stats improve, the look is always the same and very mundane. You never really find new gear, put it on, it looks better, which is a very big part of MMO's or looting hunting.

You never really get that "oh sweet new gear! looks awesome now!". It just looks roughly the same through the entire game.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

What needs to be avoided: Reskinning the same armour models and then calling it "new"

Unique models, not reskins, for new armour added needs to be done.

Armour/clothing with independent animations while moving/casting/attacking, not glued on to the character *cough* robes *cough*.
Armour with painted on details looks extremely lazy, its the kind of thing that WoW does which is reusing the exact same few models for every single set of armour and just paint them differently. If there's a decorative chain on the armour, why not have an actual chain and not just painted on?
Belts and straps? Why not have actual belts and straps?

It can't be THAT hard to do it, right?

I'm looking at the armour and clothing animations on Black Desert and then I look at ESO and imagine how amazing it would look if it was the same.

Head.hunter

I agree that some of the endgame armor could be a bit cooler. You should have to earn well designed sets, however.

Tonnopesce

Good point OP... WE WANT TO SEE MORE BOOBS and we dont care if the female armor is a metal thong with a diamond bra and pretty much all the body is exposed just give us the boobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BBSooner

I'm happy with the way armor aesthetic progresses from early to later, as well as the styles presented so far.

Obscure

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

It can't be THAT hard to do it, right?

I think if you knew just how hard it was you'd have a whole different level of respect for game designers that can actually pull it off. I'm personally incapable entirely, but to see first hand what some people can do is truly remarkable. Keep in mind the more unique stuff they add in the game, the bigger the files grow, and the longer you and I have to wait on the launcher to download the new build.

Could be simply being frugal with their bandwidth driving an unwillingness to make tons of unique and cool assets. Costs money to push data, and the more you push the more you pay... it's effin' highway robbery if you look at the cost of providing bandwidth to the prices providers charge.

Not trying to rebut your point. Just a bit more for you to think about to refine it further I suppose.

bellanca6561n

You're never going to get consensus on what looks good, what looks "badass," what looks sexy, or what looks like trash.

Art direction follows the core theme of the game and has a style bible. Thus comparing games never really works if meant to suggest one should borrow from another.

ESO is fairly sanitary compared to the world of, say, The Witcher. But The Witcher is dark fantasy and who's going to have a more gritty feel for the dark ages: an American artist or one from Poland? ESO is fine work. The Witcher is art.

Asian fantasy is another milieu entirely. Another audience.

Although art is what we all see, art in the games industry is the least respected of all the core talents and disciplines. It's usually outsourced and the poorest paid. Plus artists have the least power in the development process.

I'm not speaking for this game here. I do not know how they do things. But I've worked lots and lots of places and find it a major miracle when I see something approaching genuine artistic expression turn up in games. So much is stacked against it.

TheBucket

demonaffinity wrote: »

ZigoSid wrote: »

You'll have your fancy armors (that's from the "Classes" section here http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/esotu)
Don't know if it'll be a motif or the new skin for PVP armors only.

http://files.elderscrollsonline.com/img/marketing/classes_Dragonknight.jpg
http://files.elderscrollsonline.com/img/marketing/classes_Templar.jpg
http://files.elderscrollsonline.com/img/marketing/classes_Nightblade.jpg
http://files.elderscrollsonline.com/img/marketing/classes_Sorcerer.jpg

Beside the Sorcerer helmet, what really stands out with that set? Absolutely nothing.

You obviously have a different taste that doesnt meet up with others here. So what exactky is your point for this thread? Seems like we are just attempting to bash.

I think armors do standout. I also dont like flashy shoulder pieces are armor that has flaming crystals and crap all over them. Like you, I have a different taste.

demonaffinity

TheBucket wrote: »

demonaffinity wrote: »

ZigoSid wrote: »

You'll have your fancy armors (that's from the "Classes" section here http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/esotu)
Don't know if it'll be a motif or the new skin for PVP armors only.

http://files.elderscrollsonline.com/img/marketing/classes_Dragonknight.jpg
http://files.elderscrollsonline.com/img/marketing/classes_Templar.jpg
http://files.elderscrollsonline.com/img/marketing/classes_Nightblade.jpg
http://files.elderscrollsonline.com/img/marketing/classes_Sorcerer.jpg

Beside the Sorcerer helmet, what really stands out with that set? Absolutely nothing.

You obviously have a different taste that doesnt meet up with others here. So what exactky is your point for this thread? Seems like we are just attempting to bash.

I think armors do standout. I also dont like flashy shoulder pieces are armor that has flaming crystals and crap all over them. Like you, I have a different taste.

I obviously have a different taste. Yes, like everyone else. The point of the thread is to see what people think of my criticism towards the gear designs. I'm not attempting to bash, but there are a lot of people like yourself, who seems to think it's okay to jump to conclussions about peoples intentions.

Lastly, not everyone agrees with me, but if you look around, some people do.

Iago

Personally I like the armor and weapon designs. Especially the fact that they seem to get more detailed the more you upgrade them.

jkemmery

AlienSlof wrote: »

And do away with the £$£$%@ hip flaps!

Seconded. They didn't exist in our medieval world and they "float" off the character's hip which is annoying and immersion breaking.

IrishGirlGamer

jkemmery wrote: »

AlienSlof wrote: »

And do away with the £$£$%@ hip flaps!

Seconded. They didn't exist in our medieval world and they "float" off the character's hip which is annoying and immersion breaking.

Thirded. I don't know how relevant the fact is that they didn't exist in our medieval world where this is a fantasy world, but they are annoying when they float in the air. Either make the design work correctly or get rid of them completely.

And this is where I wish they would let open some kind of a workshop for modders. Please. Pretty please.

nerevarine1138

First, I hate every example you posted from other games. Those are ridiculous looking designs, and the worst thing is that they aren't even tongue-in-cheek.

Also, you took some pretty isolated examples, so let's look at armor pieces you didn't mention:

Daedric light armor
Ancient Elf medium and heavy shoulders
Primal/Barbaric (for the character who prefers to wear less)
Dwemer Bow
Dwemer light helm
etc.
etc.

I don't want to run in to someone with flaming pauldrons of doom. I don't want to see hats with glowing eyes and mist surrounding them. There are plenty of games with that aesthetic, and it looks like a 12-year-old advised the design team.

Eekshnerf

So does anyone remember a few months ago when the character creation's novice armor preview used to be their racial style, level 1 gear? And now it showcases new characters wearing a rusty breastplate, some old leather armor, or an old robe (depending on class) I think those armors look badass and I would wear them on my v14 if I could. Simplistic, realistic armor is the way to go. I'll also take this time to say that all the bladed weapons look terrible: daggers, swords, great swords. If they have a good looking blade, they have a dumb looking crossguard and grip. If they have a good looking grip, they have a dumb looking blade and crossguard. They all have terrible crossguards. I finally just remade my legendary daedric daggers into orcish, after like 7 or 8 months, maybe more, because I couldn't stand the terribleness anymore. I understand elder scrolls is its own thing, and they shouldn't be using directly medieval-looking weapons, but that doesn't mean they can't take the good aspects of handsome blades and make them only slightly different.

Aneima

Hey. Where did you get those clothes? . . . , At the toilet store?

demonaffinity

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

First, I hate every example you posted from other games. Those are ridiculous looking designs, and the worst thing is that they aren't even tongue-in-cheek.

Also, you took some pretty isolated examples, so let's look at armor pieces you didn't mention:

Daedric light armor
Ancient Elf medium and heavy shoulders
Primal/Barbaric (for the character who prefers to wear less)
Dwemer Bow
Dwemer light helm
etc.
etc.

I don't want to run in to someone with flaming pauldrons of doom. I don't want to see hats with glowing eyes and mist surrounding them. There are plenty of games with that aesthetic, and it looks like a 12-year-old advised the design team.

The examples I chose serves their purpose. If you don't see the point but instead focus on wether or not you like the gear in the picture.. well then you fail to see the big picture and the whole purpose of this thread.

I could have chosen to put 25 different armor types and it would still be somewhat isolated examples. Again, they are just here to get my point across.

My point in case you missed it completely: I don't want flashy gear. Weapons and armor lack details that emphasize their theme. They shouldn't be afraid to get creative. They need to keep the simple gear design but up the quality a bit.

jkemmery

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

Thirded. I don't know how relevant the fact is that they didn't exist in our medieval world ...

I put that in for context due to the fact that it's the time in history when real people wore actual armor, and the armor of this fantasy world pretty much emulates that design.

nerevarine1138

demonaffinity wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

First, I hate every example you posted from other games. Those are ridiculous looking designs, and the worst thing is that they aren't even tongue-in-cheek.

Also, you took some pretty isolated examples, so let's look at armor pieces you didn't mention:

Daedric light armor
Ancient Elf medium and heavy shoulders
Primal/Barbaric (for the character who prefers to wear less)
Dwemer Bow
Dwemer light helm
etc.
etc.

I don't want to run in to someone with flaming pauldrons of doom. I don't want to see hats with glowing eyes and mist surrounding them. There are plenty of games with that aesthetic, and it looks like a 12-year-old advised the design team.

The examples I chose serves their purpose. If you don't see the point but instead focus on wether or not you like the gear in the picture.. well then you fail to see the big picture and the whole purpose of this thread.

I could have chosen to put 25 different armor types and it would still be somewhat isolated examples. Again, they are just here to get my point across.

My point in case you missed it completely: I don't want flashy gear. Weapons and armor lack details that emphasize their theme. They shouldn't be afraid to get creative. They need to keep the simple gear design but up the quality a bit.

They already have the details that emphasize their theme. The fact that those details aren't giant, flashing signs saying "THIS IS A DWEMER SWORD" doesn't negate that the details are there.

I (and I'd probably assume this goes for many veteran ES players) appreciate the more subtle differences between gear types. It's in full keeping with the design of Elder Scrolls games up to this point.

MornaBaine

I agree that I am super bored with the armor, especially light armor choices. These are supposed to be CLOTH but most of them look like they have leather components. Give me some beautiful and elegant CLOTH gear and that does NOT have the neckline of a nun's habit please.

jkemmery

Haxer wrote: »

The stats improve, the look is always the same and very mundane. You never really find new gear, put it on, it looks better, which is a very big part of MMO's or looting hunting.

You never really get that "oh sweet new gear! looks awesome now!". It just looks roughly the same through the entire game.

But you do get new colors with new achievements , so that's a plus. Being able to customize your look with the colors of your achievements is kind of nice, you have to admit, even if it's the same basic design.

Eekshnerf

MornaBaine wrote: »

I agree that I am super bored with the armor, especially light armor choices. These are supposed to be CLOTH but most of them look like they have leather components. Give me some beautiful and elegant CLOTH gear and that does NOT have the neckline of a nun's habit please.

Beautiful and elegant. I'm all about better looking stuff too but not that. "I am super bored with the *****, especially light ***** choices." What's the word that goes there? Armor. Not cocktail dresses. Not evening gowns. Don't want the neckline? This is combat gear we're talking about. Even if its some ugly cloth between my heart/lungs and the tip of a sword, I'll take it. That being said, there could be costumes and more added to the laundered clothing that suits what you want.

golfer.dub17_ESO

Something I learned is that the new thieving system lets you obtain items of a unique style that can't be crafted. Items that have always existed as scenery or NPC weapons but could never before be obtained by the player.

For example I have a V13 Battleaxe that looks like a level 10 Battleaxe.

I also have this type of round mace you commonly see enemy NPC's use:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=418446664

As well as a unique greatsword you commonly see laying as a prop in old nord dungeons:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=418447370

If only there were ways to craft these items.

Good point OP... WE WANT TO SEE MORE BOOBS and we dont care if the female armor is a metal thong with a diamond bra and pretty much all the body is exposed just give us the boobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No. I am overjoyed they fixed that pandering nonsense. When people complain about them removing the stupid boob-window armor I don't even know what to say.

Ffastyl

jkemmery wrote: »

AlienSlof wrote: »

And do away with the £$£$%@ hip flaps!

Seconded. They didn't exist in our medieval world and they "float" off the character's hip which is annoying and immersion breaking.

The faulds?

nerevarine1138

Ffastyl wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

AlienSlof wrote: »

And do away with the £$£$%@ hip flaps!

Seconded. They didn't exist in our medieval world and they "float" off the character's hip which is annoying and immersion breaking.

The faulds?

Thank you.

Every time someone says that those "didn't exist" or would be impractical, I mentally slash their legs off, right at the hips. Faulds were a thing, people. And not just in medieval Europe. Look at samurai armor, for Stendarr's sake.