I can't take it! Argonian is soooo bad compared to other races.

Varicite

Molagent wrote: »

If you think so highly of the Argonians, as I said. It's a politics and business game. Show reason, lore to get support from Bethesda and get backers at a minimum of hundred if not a thousand.

The only people who care about Argonians are those who PLAY Argonians, which is a tiny fraction of the player base atm, because Argonians were never a very strong race outside of a couple very specific builds.

The nerf gutted those builds entirely, making that subsect of players even SMALLER.

In what world do you think it would even be possible to get that much support?

PS) I did start a thread as soon as the patch notes for 1.6 came out, 92 comments, 2.5k views, not even close to good enough for a response from ZOS. You act as though I haven't tried at all. <.<

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

@Molagent my idea is solid and would take little code writing it would buff what needs a buffing and remove what is now a useless passive, we don't need to clone other passives we don't need crazy or unreasonable passives

Nutronic

Pointing fingers and complaining about who does this who doesn't do that isn't going to get this anywhere.
Big sweeping change suggestions that dwarf other race's passives won't get seriously considered either. Especially if it's in the first page of posts.

Also it's a bit difficult to surmise exactly how many players play whatever race. Even surveys conducted by community hubs like foundry barely scratch the surface. It's honestly better to work with numbers you know and go from there. I care about what happens to the race, several other people in this thread care, so instead of fighting just flush out a list of changes, work on it, and when enough people agree make a new thread and try to get people to support it with positive comments.

It honestly isn't that hard to get things noticed or devs talking especially considering ESO LIVE. The reality is that racials might not be high on the development list because of lag, new players, crown store, etc.

I still play my Argonian Tank Sorcerer (any 2 combination of those things many would consider having dubious synergy) and find plenty of use in PVP and lately endgame PVE. They aren't broken, and this being an MMO most of your performance is based on gear and skill (but mostly gear).

Right now there are 2 topics in this section of the forums alone with not all the same contributors. If the topic looks inviting and people can get the gist of where the conversation has gone in the first post, there might be more contributors. More unique posts are far more important than the same couple dozen or so people refreshing the same topic over and over again to inflate views (not that anyone is doing this, but for a topic with over 1k views there should be more than like 12 people posting)...

Varicite

Nutronic wrote: »

Pointing fingers and complaining about who does this who doesn't do that isn't going to get this anywhere.
Big sweeping change suggestions that dwarf other race's passives won't get seriously considered either. Especially if it's in the first page of posts.

Also it's a bit difficult to surmise exactly how many players play whatever race. Even surveys conducted by community hubs like foundry barely scratch the surface. It's honestly better to work with numbers you know and go from there. I care about what happens to the race, several other people in this thread care, so instead of fighting just flush out a list of changes, work on it, and when enough people agree make a new thread and try to get people to support it with positive comments.

It honestly isn't that hard to get things noticed or devs talking especially considering ESO LIVE. The reality is that racials might not be high on the development list because of lag, new players, crown store, etc.

I still play my Argonian Tank Sorcerer (any 2 combination of those things many would consider having dubious synergy) and find plenty of use in PVP and lately endgame PVE. They aren't broken, and this being an MMO most of your performance is based on gear and skill (but mostly gear).

Right now there are 2 topics in this section of the forums alone with not all the same contributors. If the topic looks inviting and people can get the gist of where the conversation has gone in the first post, there might be more contributors. More unique posts are far more important than the same couple dozen or so people refreshing the same topic over and over again to inflate views (not that anyone is doing this, but for a topic with over 1k views there should be more than like 12 people posting)...

See, in the same post where you talk about how there are many more players that care about Argonians, you touch on the fact that these threads generally have the same few people posting about it.

2.5k views for my own thread, and it suffered from the same issue.

Molagent

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Amphibious - Increase swimming speed by 100% while in water increase health, magic and stamina regeneration by 50%.
Honestly how often is the passive going to see action but it lines up with the lore

Argonian resistance - increase max health by 12% increase resistance to disease and poison damage by 1500 points and reduce the effects of poison them disease effect by 25%
So like healing debuffs and so on

Blessings of the Hist - increase healing done by 6% and decrease stealth detection range by what ever the other two bonuses are.

You tell me if it sounds finished. What race or gear even gives such resistances in a single piece or two? You didn't even bother to write out a stealth detection range. The stats are unreasonable if you ask me. Look if you don't want me to say anything then make it convince Zenimax.

@Varicite
Views aren't backers, I'm sorry man. The guy you quoted is saying the same thing I am just a bit nicer. I don't much care for the argonians because no matter what class I play, I pre-ordered the Imperial Edition. I've never had the problem of choosing a faction especially after Aldermen Dominion's Eternal released. "Hear the singing of our blades death has come foes be afraid!" I do though understand the issue if you love that faction and/or the argonians in general, and if not the sense of PvE/P ability is excessively lacking compared to others. There's not a single doubt there to be made.

Get the backers grouped up, make the echo a roar. We were heard about the Justice system and guilds finally. We've all moved passed the infuriating duping glitch back during launch that killed all guild and material markets. Not to mention the 7 hour rollback. Motifs for imperials went from 2-5k to now 40k+...I should have saved...I should have saved. But besides the point from what you say and I've read, you've yet to do anything close to what I said. The Justice system came because anyone who played an ES series game wanted to steal and we made that damn well clear. On top of that, guild colors came about because even though we had a choice for 5 guilds, we wanted to show loyalty because let's face it... Who has 5 pvp or pve guilds? Hell even I'm guilty of having alts in nothing BUT trading guilds I wasn't already in and my main had one for PvE and PvP. Rest trading... Nonetheless, all of that came from people demanding it by the thousands and to be perfectly blunt I don't think you'll get your backing with Bethesda unless you have at a bare minimum of A thousand. Yeah it's sad, I'd love to see an improvement, but the question to lie with me is if they don't get improved then who is getting kicked down next?

Varicite

Molagent wrote: »

Views aren't backers, I'm sorry man. The guy you quoted is saying the same thing I am just a bit nicer. I don't much care for the argonians because no matter what class I play, I pre-ordered the Imperial Edition. I've never had the problem of choosing a faction especially after Aldermen Dominion's Eternal released. "Hear the singing of our blades death has come foes be afraid!" I do though understand the issue if you love that faction and/or the argonians in general, and if not the sense of PvE/P ability is excessively lacking compared to others. There's not a single doubt there to be made.

Get the backers grouped up, make the echo a roar. We were heard about the Justice system and guilds finally. We've all moved passed the infuriating duping glitch back during launch that killed all guild and material markets. Not to mention the 7 hour rollback. Motifs for imperials went from 2-5k to now 40k+...I should have saved...I should have saved.

Oh, I know that. All I'm saying is that I don't think there are nearly as many backers as you seem to think there are, due to reasons that I listed earlier.

Molagent

I never said there were enough to begin with. Reason I first said one hundred...Even that seems rather tall of an order. Facing a fact argonians aren't so desired, and in opinion have the ugliest armor. Nice that it seems rather ancient looking, but it's just...There's nothing really interesting about it other than the fact it looks like it came out a museum that was forgotten.

Again to make it clearer. I really doubt you'll see the Argonians get a buff any day soon, even if you managed to get a hundred backers. A thousand would seem more practical, but I'd be asking a thousand people to support Ebonheart's Argonians. You tell me how idiotic that sounds. I'd rather know who's next on the list to see the grindstone in the name of "balance."

Yet I'm too furious to even look at patch notes to see if they went through with the PvP AoE targeting limit. Mainly for the fact that if they did I know this game already lost 20% of it's population overnight and knowing game developers these years, I'm pretty damn sure they capped it. I just refuse to look. So cheers to "balance" and whoever is next to get screwed! Please god don't be my lil match stick bosmer vampire.....

cwp303b14_ESO

@Molagent I originated the thread with only the problems listed because, and it pains me that this is true, open ended whining goes a long way towards getting the ball rolling. I hate it but, sensational titles and content attracts attention. I have posted many times with rational, well thought out posts with evidence, math, and testing only to have it fall flat because it didn't stir the pot. The forums follow the same rules as tabloids at a checkout line. Those posts that enrage, make sweeping generalizations, and are rife with controversy pick up momentum. I really do hate it but, it's what it takes.

After nurturing the thread a bit I then came to the table with my proposal for a weapon/spell power buff when potions are consumed because I think that is reasonable, can be balanced, keeps the flavor of the original passive, closes the gap in damage/healing caused by lack of stat bonus, and remains unique. The proposal was lost in the sea of lore based arguments and since I was on vacation I couldn't redirect the conversation.

Molagent

cwp303b14_ESO wrote: »

@Molagent I originated the thread with the only the problems listed to because, and it pains me that this is true, open ended whining goes a long way towards getting the ball rolling. I hate it but sensational titles and content attracts attention. I have posted many times with rational, well thought out posts with evidence, math, and testing only to have it fall flat because it didn't stir the pot. The forums follow the same rules as tabloids at a checkout line. Those posts that enrage, make sweeping generalizations, and are rife with controversy pick up momentum. I really do hate it but, it's what it takes.

After nurturing the thread a bit I then came to the table with my proposal for a weapon/spell power buff when potions are consumed because I think that is reasonable, can be balanced, keeps the flavor of the original passive, closes the gap in damage/healing caused by lack of stat bonus, and remains unique. The proposal was lost in the sea of lore based arguments and since I was on vacation I couldn't redirect the conversation.

I remember seeing a meme... Some nerdy looking guy with the captions reading "Makes quality thread... Incomes the bullsh*t." I know how you feel and on a worse level. I used to be a major part of TTG and making JTAG infection lobbies and teaching people how to mod game saves from Red Dead Redemption to Borderlands. It doesn't matter if you have a golden damn ticket for someone, if they don't find a title catchy, they will NEVER look. It blew my mind so much, but when I went about simplifying everything and making it easy and fun looking, suddenly everyone lined up at the door. Trying to make sense in a storm of idiots is surprisingly strange. It can be difficult or incredibly easy, no matter what though if you go to whatever corner in a logical means someone will have something to say and then they'll jump to the other boat even if yours is the golden ticket. It's politics with players, business with Zenimax and it's ugly especially for the Argonians. I may not have a full understanding of the faction divide and racial separations, but in the aspect of PvE/P I more than understand because to this day I hate Argonians. There's no appeal to them at all other than race and lore. I actually feel bad for saying that because my favorite thing in Skyrim was to play as the Listener with an Argonian. I don't understand exactly why they nerfed the racials and that's what I'm still trying to figure out. They weren't overpowered to begin with and I wanted to see some amount of change that could benefit it. I had a personal hope they could stay hidden in the water, but that was left in dismay. You're the one more interested in the topic, try taking a course in communications and who knows you might end up convincing enough people.

I got a fun one for you to try though... Instead of this try to make a compelling argument to convince change in how memberships are done in ESO. Example why have something simple and so easily copy/paste from other games? To my knowledge Firefall is the only game that gave a squad/group exp bonus along with a solo. My personal thoughts, why does solo exist? Every company knows it's word of mouth that makes sales the best. So having something that would heavily convince people to getting memberships would be to do just that. Get them talking, what about a guild exp bonus in Cyrodiil, in the trials or just together. What about other things like members marketplaces or something as simple as instead of solo exp boosts, go with squads and don't make it something light like 10 or 15% but something that says "HEY!" like 25 or 35%. Nonetheless good luck.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Molagent wrote: »

I don't understand exactly why they nerfed the racials and that's what I'm still trying to figure out. They weren't overpowered to begin with and I wanted to see some amount of change that could benefit it.

I can shed some light on why it was changed. As I pointed out a long time ago on the PTS forum and in my first post in this thread, Potion Effectiveness was removed from the game (from both Argonians and Nightblades) because of how they consolidated buffs with the Major/Minor system in 1.6. Since potion effects are now considered buffs the same as those from abilities, and since the values of Major/Minor buffs cannot be changed, Potion Effectiveness simply became obsolete. Combined with the fact that there was never any real opposition to Argonian NB potion effectiveness stacking (largely because it was so expensive, and you had to make other sacrifices, which helped keep it in check), this leads me to believe that the replacement of Potion Effectiveness passives was not an intentional 'nerf' but simply a casualty of this new way buffs work in the game.

The issue is that it is very apparent they didn't think through why those passives were important, especially to people that rolled Argonian Nightblades who could stack potion effectiveness bonuses. As a result, the replacement passives don't offer nearly the same utility, and we are left with a downgrade (ie a 'nerf').

As for me personally, I rolled an Argonian Nightblade in the Aldmeri Dominion -- so we aren't all members of EP I have a little backstory for my character as to how he ended up there and enjoy playing the character, but I also was really attracted to the interesting synergy with potion usage and trying to make an Argonian NB tank that stacks healing received (which I've managed to do with much success). Like you mentioned, and what I've been advocating for in the many threads on Argonians, is that it would be easier to get bumps to existing passive values than to completely reformulate the race. I just wish they would've made the Argonian and NB passives stack, whatever they were, especially since NBs lack any good burst self-heals. Just imagine the outrage from Dragonknights if they reformulated how elemental damage worked and took away flame damage from Dunmers!

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Molagent wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Amphibious - Increase swimming speed by 100% while in water increase health, magic and stamina regeneration by 50%.
Honestly how often is the passive going to see action but it lines up with the lore

Argonian resistance - increase max health by 12% increase resistance to disease and poison damage by 1500 points and reduce the effects of poison them disease effect by 25%
So like healing debuffs and so on

Blessings of the Hist - increase healing done by 6% and decrease stealth detection range by what ever the other two bonuses are.

You tell me if it sounds finished. What race or gear even gives such resistances in a single piece or two? You didn't even bother to write out a stealth detection range. The stats are unreasonable if you ask me. Look if you don't want me to say anything then make it convince Zenimax.

@Varicite
Views aren't backers, I'm sorry man. The guy you quoted is saying the same thing I am just a bit nicer. I don't much care for the argonians because no matter what class I play, I pre-ordered the Imperial Edition. I've never had the problem of choosing a faction especially after Aldermen Dominion's Eternal released. "Hear the singing of our blades death has come foes be afraid!" I do though understand the issue if you love that faction and/or the argonians in general, and if not the sense of PvE/P ability is excessively lacking compared to others. There's not a single doubt there to be made.

Get the backers grouped up, make the echo a roar. We were heard about the Justice system and guilds finally. We've all moved passed the infuriating duping glitch back during launch that killed all guild and material markets. Not to mention the 7 hour rollback. Motifs for imperials went from 2-5k to now 40k+...I should have saved...I should have saved. But besides the point from what you say and I've read, you've yet to do anything close to what I said. The Justice system came because anyone who played an ES series game wanted to steal and we made that damn well clear. On top of that, guild colors came about because even though we had a choice for 5 guilds, we wanted to show loyalty because let's face it... Who has 5 pvp or pve guilds? Hell even I'm guilty of having alts in nothing BUT trading guilds I wasn't already in and my main had one for PvE and PvP. Rest trading... Nonetheless, all of that came from people demanding it by the thousands and to be perfectly blunt I don't think you'll get your backing with Bethesda unless you have at a bare minimum of A thousand. Yeah it's sad, I'd love to see an improvement, but the question to lie with me is if they don't get improved then who is getting kicked down next?

You must not play an Argonian I just add 300 points to our poison and disease resistance it's already above 1000 as far a unreasonable 12% extra Max stats already exist for racial bonus bonus with them getting regen on top so nothiing unreasonable there double the swim speed we have now would allow Argonian to cross the rivers in Cyrodiil add new tactical strategies and planning one running a scroll sets and even a Champion system bonus increase all healings given do nothing new.

At the end of it all a person who doesn't play an Argonian opinion on with our racial power should be is invalid.

Cody

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Agreed. They replaced a very unique and useful (I would say necessary, for NBs) passive with ones that are much less so. My Argonian NB tank is still very powerful in PvE, but much less so in PvP now. As a stamina build, without Vigor since it is locked away behind months of hardcore PvPing, I now have crap for reliable burst self-heals, whereas previously I could pop big self-heal potions every 15-20 seconds. This has made a huge difference in my survivability in PvP.

That said, I don't think the Argonian nerf was intentional. It was simply a casualty of the buff consolidation ZOS implemented with 1.6. Since potions are now considered buffs just like what abilities confer, and since all buffs now only come in Major/Minor variations whose values don't change (though durations do), Potion Effectiveness was simply rendered obsolete. The issue is that it is very apparent they didn't think through why those passives were important, especially to people that rolled Argonian Nightblades. As a result, the replacement passives don't offer nearly the same utility, and we are left with a downgrade. The passive itself isn't terrible given, but the values are indeed too low, especially since they increased the potion cooldown so much.

I tend to disagree with people who push for Argonians to have stealth-related passives. Yes, it fits with the lore, but there are already two races with stealth-based passives, so why have a third? I would also argue that stealth-based passives have even less utility than potion-based ones, especially for end-game PvE and the majority of PvP where you are engaged in non-stealth combat. I'm a fan of the current increase to healing received, since it is unique amongst racials (and is something I've carefully integrated that into the Argonian NB tank build I've been playing since launch ha); I just think the value needs to be increased and/or also be a bonus to healing dealt.

For those interested, here are a bunch of great threads about the state of Argonian passives (none of which have any replies from ZOS, so it is pretty apparent racial passives aren't a priority):

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/151415/1-6-changes-to-potions-and-related-passives-abilities-issues-and-possible-solutions

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154490/change-to-argonians-best-passive-still-not-in-the-notes#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154004/zenimax-please-reconsider-argonian-racial-passives/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154048/how-come-racials-werent-given-a-pass-in-1-6-zos

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153268/my-case-for-race-change-option-in-1-6/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/152091/racial-disparity-with-full-list/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150659/lets-talk-about-argonians-race-change-please/p1

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/30t64a/argonians_huh_good_god_yall_what_are_they_good_for/

you think stealth is useless in PvP?

you should really go back to it and see how wrong you are:/

I did not say useless. I said passives that boost stealth-related things provide overall less utility than potions for most situations. I play solo most of the time in PvP, so I use stealth all the time. After that first shot from stealth though, those passives are no longer useful. During prolonged keep sieges, they are similarly not useful (and for any group or end-game PvE they have zero utility). Since the large majority of the abilities you use in PvP happens outside of stealth, and since stealth passives have virtually zero uses for any group of end-game PvE, I think stealth-related passives are not a good way to improve Argonian racials.

so being able to sneak away form a large group after killing one of them IS NOT an important skill in PvP?

im confused:/

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Rettile wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

A stealth-based passive would be useless to a large proportion of Argonian players, given that many of us chose the race without that in mind. I'd rather see current passives buffed rather than adding a whole new one that could completely ruin the race for many of us.

You want see buffed potion passive? o c'mon don't be ridiculus, potion passive is a stupid skill that require money to be used!
And i'm not worried about why people choose Argonian, but to give people a better race to play... ( i have a DK and i took the race because i love it from morrowind and the other TES game ).

Leave Guerrila Warfare Expertise and reput Quick to Mend in list, it's not the problem, only i don't want a potion passive... and more people think this..

Given that many people rolled Argonian NB just for the potion synergy, your opinion is hardly shared by most Argonian players.

they did before, now im sure many do not.

Varicite

Cody wrote: »

they did before, now im sure many do not.

No, you're right, now they roll them for no reason other than aesthetics and sometimes for the healing racial before realizing it's not nearly as good as they thought it was.

I have not met a single person who has rolled a fresh Argonian since 1.6 and not cited one of these 2 reasons, though that's rather anecdotal. I still think you'd be hard-pressed to find other reasons, though.

Usually it's something along the lines of "I don't care if their racials suck, I want a lizard".

tinythinker

I have three VR Argonians (VR14 DK, VR14 Templar, VR1 NB) and they are fun to play. I enjoy the uniqueness of Argonian passives and how they don't strongly favor one flavor of build like some of the really powerful racial passives do for Breton and Altmer and Redguard.

My suggestions for Argonian passives, in all of their different forms/versions, tend to revolve around buffing the existing concepts or slight but helpful modifications to make the passives more useful and less decorative. I don't want to re-post the same things over and over again all over every time a new thread about the topic appears, so I tend to stick mostly to one really old thread on the subject.

Honestly though racial passives, especially Argonian racial passives, have hovered near the bottom of the priority pile for a while. There have been bigger balance/bug concerns over the past year, and I was surprised to even see the potion change in 1.6 (regardless of how it was received by many players). I don't expect another change for a long time.

cwp303b14_ESO

Welp, they announced race change in the future so I guess it's probably just not going to change. If I were ZOS, I would wait for everyone to buy a race change to imperial, altmer, dunmer, and breton and THEN counter buff the other races. If I were ZOS...

Nutronic

I think if they add racial changes players should be limited in some way on that. Other wise a full race/class change is pretty much a free VR14 or whatever character. I guess that's cool if you earned it by playing all those hours but the one thing I always found interesting about an MMO is there is no save state. By that I mean every action you make/take in the game is permanent and therefore has meaning. If you can change a race like set of skills, what's even the point any more? No faction pride, and now no racial pride. I guess gotta give the players what they want but this might just turn the game into something it doesn't want to be.

Aeternus

No dev response on the Argonian racial threads after they changed them in 1.6. Obviously they have no intention of fixing them anytime soon. Thank you so much ZoS for gimping my Argonian nightblade to death and making him utterly useless, and for the hundreds of hours I've now wasted leveling in VR. By far this game has one of the most sh*ttiest unbalanced racial systems I have seen in an mmorpg. Making a few fixes to balance them out would be so simple, yet ZoS has still failed to do anything about it for no other explanation than that they truly don't care or are just incompetent.

Cody

Aeternus wrote: »

No dev response on the Argonian racial threads after they changed them in 1.6. Obviously they have no intention of fixing them anytime soon. Thank you so much ZoS for gimping my Argonian nightblade to death and making him utterly useless, and for the hundreds of hours I've now wasted leveling in VR. By far this game has one of the most sh*ttiest unbalanced racial systems I have seen in an mmorpg. Making a few fixes to balance them out would be so simple, yet ZoS has still failed to do anything about it for no other explanation than that they truly don't care or are just incompetent.

they are too busy fixing the quests they keep breaking with every patch:(

Bloodystab

I think we "Argonians" just should get back to eggs...

ZOS, please do something with our passives.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

According to the last ESO Live, they are planning to implement a Race Change option in the Crown Store. So that pretty much solves the problem of trying to balance races for ZOS (/sarcasm).

Nutronic

No it doesn't. What it means is they will have to nerf the most popular choices to coerce player race diversity (looking really hard at Imperial, Altmer, Breton, and Woodguard.)

ThatNeonZebraAgain

I'm more inclined to think they will change the stronger racials a couple months after they first put it in the Crown Store so people will then pay AGAIN to switch to the latest FOTM race. Rinse and Repeat.

Bloodystab

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

According to the last ESO Live, they are planning to implement a Race Change option in the Crown Store. So that pretty much solves the problem of trying to balance races for ZOS.

Ability to change Race is not fixing. Its just walk around.

I like visual aspect of Argonian race and i liked passives before change.


Balance races is way easier then Class skills...

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Bloodystab wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

According to the last ESO Live, they are planning to implement a Race Change option in the Crown Store. So that pretty much solves the problem of trying to balance races for ZOS.

Ability to change Race is not fixing. Its just walk around.

I like visual aspect of Argonian race and i liked passives before change.


Balance races is way easier then Class skills...

I was being sarcastic. The problem is fixed "for them" in that they don't have to actually try and fix the balance of racial passives.

Bloodystab

btw, I just saw new Welcome screen on the ESO website.

Funny thing, i scrolled down too read about Races: Here is a argonian description:

"Argonian
Well-versed in the use of magic, stealth, and subtle blades Useless passives, swimming and potions, the Argonians of Black Marsh are mysterious and hard to read. Experts at guerilla warfare, they often serve as scouts and skirmishers. Only they truly know the reason they’ve joined forces with the Dark Elves, their ex-slavers."

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Bloodystab wrote: »

btw, I just saw new Welcome screen on the ESO website.

Funny thing, i scrolled down too read about Races: Here is a argonian description:

"Argonian
Well-versed in the use of magic, stealth, and subtle blades Useless passives, swimming and potions, the Argonians of Black Marsh are mysterious and hard to read. Experts at guerilla warfare, they often serve as scouts and skirmishers. Only they truly know the reason they’ve joined forces with the Dark Elves, their ex-slavers."

Well of course it's hella easy to type that up but writing the code is most then the interns that do the coding can handle

Junkogen

I curse ZOS every day because of the horrible job they've done with the Argonian passives. They were trying to be unique but failed and made them marginal. They had that restore staff and didn't know what to do with it. It would have been better suited with the Bretons, Dunmer could have gotten the light armor and Argonian the dual wield. That would make more sense. They just got sloppy and didn't take time to think I through. Now the Argonians are just out of character.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Junkogen wrote: »

I curse ZOS every day because of the horrible job they've done with the Argonian passives. They were trying to be unique but failed and made them marginal. They had that restore staff and didn't know what to do with it. It would have been better suited with the Bretons, Dunmer could have gotten the light armor and Argonian the dual wield. That would make more sense. They just got sloppy and didn't take time to think I through. Now the Argonians are just out of character.

As @ZOS has never replied to a single post about Argonian passives, it's fair to say they really don't care. It's pointless to even bring it up. The Forums are for players to talk to players. Update notes are that all @ZoS does here besides mediating player comments.

R3DTHR3AT

All races need to be balanced, not only argonians.

Junkogen

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

All races need to be balanced, not only argonians.

Yes, but Argonians have had it the worst for awhile now. They actually got nerfed recently, which has sparked the outcry. They really are in the worst spot right now.