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Update 24 and the Dragonhold DLC Game Pack are both now available for testing on the PTS! Experience the amazing conclusion to the Season of the Dragon saga. You can read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493609/ 

Monthly subscribers

  • firstdecan
    firstdecan
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    What is the point of a subscribers only forum? ZoS doesn't want to make money on subscriptions anymore, they've gone a la carte. It's also been shown that the consumer gets better value by not subscribing and simply buying the crowns in bulk. Nothing about that says that people who choose to subscribe should be given any kind of a special voice in regards to game issues.

    I do think subscribers should get some kind of a VIP lounge in game (note that I have dropped my sub), the current sub benefits simply are not worth paying the extra money. But given that ZoS has clearly demonstrated that subs are not important to their financial future, I see no reason for subscribers to have any additional leverage over consumers who are paying established market value for content and services.
  • Gidorick
    Gidorick
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obscure wrote: »
    Yes, subscribers should have their own sub-forum (that's it, just a sub-forum subscribers can access that others can't). Yes, subscribers should get exclusive monthly Q&A with the dev team (subscribers submit questions, devs pick the top 10 and they answer them in a You Tube video for all to see). Yes, subscribers should get an exclusive monthly e-pub filled with artwork, game lore, and development news (let them share it via community videos, podcasts, blogs, etc). Yes, subscribers should be made to feel like they are a part of something special, not to be confused with the thing that is special.

    But no, subscriber feedback should not be considered anything other than "player feedback". Anything otherwise would be inappropriate. Every voice in the community should be made to feel like it is heard, be they subbed and buying thousands of dollars of crowns, or just a kid in a dorm who bought the game at retail cause he got a good deal and it fit into his ramen noodles and canned tuna budget.

    Discard your ego centric world view. We are not special because we are ESO subscribers. ESO is special because we are it's subscribers. We should be made to feel it is the game that is special, and that being a subscriber is to be a part of that. If ZOS were more open with its community, more receptive to feedback, more capable of saying " yeah we ***ed up", the respect they'd get from me personally would be beyond a price tag. Being straight with a community this day on age is proven effective. Besides @ZOS, you're privately owned, who are you worried about upsetting by being community centric? You don't have investors.

    Well said sir.
    What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
    That's right... Horse.
    Click HERE to discuss.

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  • Obscure
    Obscure
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    If you want your own forums, then start a websit
    I'm against separate instances, all I ask for is a sub forum and some exclusive news letters.

    Someone has been subbing for Star Citizen too much......lol

    Over $75 million in revenue exclusively generated by a community centric business practice resulting in the most crowd funded anything in the history of the business model tends to have such a far reaching effect on consumer expectations. Anyone not paying attention to Chris Roberts' Cloud Imperium Games method, that actually works in the game industry, is just plain dumb lol. Over $75,000,000 bro... that's a whole lot of zeros hanging out in line for Star Citizen...

    ...just saying.
    Edited by Obscure on March 24, 2015 8:58PM
  • minnisville
    minnisville
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    LawfulEvil wrote: »
    IRL if I pay more I expect better. If i drop more money on a house or car should I not have a nicer one then someone who pays less for less? Is it entitlement you bet because I earned it and can afford it.

    Real Life has NO factor on this. It's a game, fantasy, fiction....The game you bought, is the same one I bought. No different. Therefore, just because you want to be special by throwing them sub money every month, doesn't mean that being a sub is special. They realize you don't have to spend for a sub, so they give you sub "perks" already. But, it's not enough? Guess what, they knew that the game wasn't "enough" to have subs to begin with, hence B2P now. Now, I see no reason they couldn't throw sub's a bone with some kind of "special" news letter, with some sneak peeks at upcoming stuff, before the "pleb's" get to see it. Heck, I wouldn't care if they gave sub's some kind of special sub color for their toons, a neat little hair cut, a title, hell give um a special pet. But, don't try and segregate the community, any.....
  • fluffycannibalb16_ESO
    This is stupid.

    Subscription holders shouldn't get any more of a say in what happens than anyone else - chiefly because the players without subscriptions are all (from ZOS's perspective) potential future sub holders and therefore ZOS need to do what they can to accommodate these people. The fact that they aren't currently paying a monthly fee doesn't make their opinion or feedback any less valuable than yours.

    And quite frankly, the idea of a subscriber-only forum is pretty absurd. Subscribers and non-subscribers play the same game with the same experiences - why on Nirn would they need somewhere special to chat to each other? Heck, even if you're posting about the subscription itself it's still something that's relevant to non-subscribers because of what I already said about them being potential future subscribers.

    Judging from the fact that this is the second thread just on the first page where people are trying to somehow separate themselves from those terrible non-subscribers, I'm pretty sure this is just an attempt to establish yourself as some kind of elitist.
    Edited by fluffycannibalb16_ESO on March 24, 2015 9:07PM
    Fluff'ii - EP Sneaky Cat-People
    Elendil Ellesar - EP Stabby-Stabby-Healer
    Khalisah al-Sinan - EP Fire-Breathing Shieldy-Person
    Liara Motierre - EP Blinky-Mage-Elf
    Fetches-Fetches-Glitter - EP Lizard-Healer
    ~EXTERMINATUS~
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Um, when has segregation and separation of a populace, be it in a game or wherever, ever been a good idea? Except when some interested parties wanted to sow distrust and resentments among those they wanted to keep down, to further their own agendas?

    I vividly remember the community forums of LOTRO turning from a genuinely helpful and welcoming place into an absolute cesspool of envy and resentments, because a faction of subscribers got it into their heads that only they knew and did what was best for the game, and wanted to place themselves above the freeloaders (and funnily enough, above the people with a LTA, too). Sadly, this kind of mindset then was allowed to catch on.

    Attacks ad hominem are bad enough, there's absolutely no need for attacks ad pecuniam, too...
    Edited by KhajitFurTrader on March 24, 2015 9:06PM
  • minnisville
    minnisville
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    Obscure wrote: »
    If you want your own forums, then start a websit
    I'm against separate instances, all I ask for is a sub forum and some exclusive news letters.

    Someone has been subbing for Star Citizen too much......lol

    Over $75 million in revenue exclusively generated by a community centric business practice resulting in the most crowd funded anything in the history of the business model tends to have such a far reaching effect on consumer expectations. Anyone not paying attention to Chris Roberts' Cloud Imperium Games method, that actually works in the game industry, is just plain dumb lol. Over $75,000,000 bro... that's a whole lot of zeros hanging out in line for Star Citizen...

    ...just saying.

    That isn't from subscriptions dude. If you think it was..then..I dont know what to say. It from them selling over priced pixels, that people cant say no to..Why? Because its a way to p2w, way before there is anything to play. It's an exploit on a game, that cant be played yet. It would be no different than ESO selling the best gear possible, stats and all..I bet you wouldn't be for that though. Plus, they will be doing it just like ESO, when the game is released....B2P....
  • Obscure
    Obscure
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    Obscure wrote: »
    If you want your own forums, then start a websit
    I'm against separate instances, all I ask for is a sub forum and some exclusive news letters.

    Someone has been subbing for Star Citizen too much......lol

    Over $75 million in revenue exclusively generated by a community centric business practice resulting in the most crowd funded anything in the history of the business model tends to have such a far reaching effect on consumer expectations. Anyone not paying attention to Chris Roberts' Cloud Imperium Games method, that actually works in the game industry, is just plain dumb lol. Over $75,000,000 bro... that's a whole lot of zeros hanging out in line for Star Citizen...

    ...just saying.

    That isn't from subscriptions dude. If you think it was..then..I dont know what to say. It from them selling over priced pixels, that people cant say no to..Why? Because its a way to p2w, way before there is anything to play. It's an exploit on a game, that cant be played yet. It would be no different than ESO selling the best gear possible, stats and all..I bet you wouldn't be for that though. Plus, they will be doing it just like ESO, when the game is released....B2P....

    Subscribers are what facilitate paying for the community outreach.

    Say what you will about the game. Hell, say what you will about pay 2 win. You can hate the game on whatever principles you feel you are warranted to stand on. But it's intellectually dishonest to discount the fact that they have not once marketed the game, and it has spread entirely by a community centric business practice entirely funded by its subscribers.

    That money they have made isn't the amount of their subscriptions, it's the result of their subscriptions.



  • luthebear
    luthebear
    Is there anything in plan to upgrade the Membership with new Benefits? maybe a title or unique things? would be more profitable for people to join the Plus Membership. Just my opinion
    Never give up on Living
  • minnisville
    minnisville
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    Obscure wrote: »
    Obscure wrote: »
    If you want your own forums, then start a websit
    I'm against separate instances, all I ask for is a sub forum and some exclusive news letters.

    Someone has been subbing for Star Citizen too much......lol

    Over $75 million in revenue exclusively generated by a community centric business practice resulting in the most crowd funded anything in the history of the business model tends to have such a far reaching effect on consumer expectations. Anyone not paying attention to Chris Roberts' Cloud Imperium Games method, that actually works in the game industry, is just plain dumb lol. Over $75,000,000 bro... that's a whole lot of zeros hanging out in line for Star Citizen...

    ...just saying.

    That isn't from subscriptions dude. If you think it was..then..I dont know what to say. It from them selling over priced pixels, that people cant say no to..Why? Because its a way to p2w, way before there is anything to play. It's an exploit on a game, that cant be played yet. It would be no different than ESO selling the best gear possible, stats and all..I bet you wouldn't be for that though. Plus, they will be doing it just like ESO, when the game is released....B2P....

    Subscribers are what facilitate paying for the community outreach.

    Say what you will about the game. Hell, say what you will about pay 2 win. You can hate the game on whatever principles you feel you are warranted to stand on. But it's intellectually dishonest to discount the fact that they have not once marketed the game, and it has spread entirely by a community centric business practice entirely funded by its subscribers.

    That money they have made isn't the amount of their subscriptions, it's the result of their subscriptions.


    I have no idea where you are coming from. I never said I hated that game. I have purchased, and subbed for it too. You are the one that put up 74million, like it was from sub's. Yes, the sub's are the ones that get the other's the vid's and extra news. But, its for the development of THAT game. ESO is already developed..It is like comparing apple to oranges. Plus, you may have a bit of your facts mixed up, because it has been marketed, in many an event. It may not have a commercial on TV, YET, but it has been marketed. Now, when they were still on kickstarter, it was more word of mouth, but not now. And, that word of mouth didnt all happen because there were subscribers....
    Edit for typo's
    Edited by minnisville on March 24, 2015 9:24PM
  • Laerian
    Laerian
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    What part of Buy to Play, no subscription required you did not understand?
    LameoveR wrote: »

    Yeah I'd vote... wait... I'd pay (what a paradox) for moving all these self-entitled people with "great ideas" to one instance...

    ...then delete the database.


  • psicorpb16_ESO
    psicorpb16_ESO
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    Any kind of elitism just encourages bad feeling and has no place in today's society (even if it's rife everywhere you look)
    I can't imagine any situation where it could possibly be beneficial in these forums and if anything, new, fresh input from people joining or rejoining the game (or even seasoned players who aren't now subbing) often give an unbiased opinion to the state the game is in or heading.

    (Just my opinion and I am a subscriber btw)
  • Aneima
    Aneima
    ✭✭✭
    People and their sense of entitlement. What crowns and perks aren't enough? Maybe some of you would like them to rub vasaline on your hiney and tell you it's special and different from everyone else's?

    I can promise you that ESO will make more money in the end from selling crown store items than it does from monthly subs.
  • Gix
    Gix
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    Smart ideas get implemented, no matter how you feel about it.

    Your idea haven't been implemented yet? ... take a hint.
  • Obscure
    Obscure
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    @minnisville

    Exposition ≠ Marketing

    Exposition is actually part of figuring out how to market the product. Yes, ESO is past that. No, the value of that doesn't disappear now that they are past that. The community of every online game drives it's success. Star Citizen has beyond proven that point (people are crazy over that far from complete pre-alpha state game), and its continually snowballing into more and more money. They are literally using their subscriber base to cover the cost of getting recognised by the market place, rather than marketing it themselves. I didn't go to E3, and I've never been to SXSW, nor have I been to PAX in three years, but somehow I've seen each exposition of the game at those events. Entirely disseminated by fans, word of mouth, and the occasional peek around YouTube, full of videos by the developers expressly thanking subscribers for paying for their ability to do so.

    ESO stands to benefit greatly from embracing the subscriber model that's being used due to it's snow ball effect. In 2011, if you came up to me and told me that Chris Roberts was going to reboot a new spin on the space sim genre and in 2015 have generated over $75 million dollars entirely from crowd funding with zero investors, I would have laughed directly into your face... I might have even pointed whilst laughing. Then if you told me he'd get the word out entirely based on funding from subscribers I would have been laughing too tears. Now that it's a reality in 2015, I'm all but forced to recognise that the correct way to solidify a subscriber base is literally as simple as making them feel like they are part of something special.

    Sound corny? It's the same psychology in a hardcore biker club. They all pay dues to the club, but not because they are special, but because the club is special. It's brilliant in its simplicity, and has set a new precedent in the industry, one that can't be ignored. It's hard to ignore something that's effective enough to get enough attention, and interest, to coax millions of dollars out of people based on concept art and flavour text. They all think that game is special, and I see no reason for ZOS not to do the same thing with ESO.





  • YourNameHere
    YourNameHere
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    Betahkiin wrote: »
    Slurg wrote: »
    Betahkiin wrote: »
    Slurg wrote: »
    Wait what? That was kind of rambly but I think you're trying to say that ideas that come from someone brand new but subscribed to the game are somehow inherently better than ideas from someone with more experience with the game but who dropped their subscription (even if they spend more a month on the crown shop that the subscriber does).

    That is wrong.


    What they mean is that ideas or preferences of those who do not pay should not affect the general consensus of those who fund the game monthly and uninterruptedly.

    Moreover it has no logic monthly spend more money in the store without being a subscriber because that way you must pay extra DLC.

    If someone is going to spend in the store a monthly sum exceeding one month of play and will do so constant and uninterrupted, you should be a subscriber and buy extra crowns.
    No one is going to tell me how and when to pay for what I want in the game. I see now this is yet another one of these "punish the non-subscribers because they are inferior" threads though and I don't believe in being petty like that so I will be taking my leave now.

    You are wrong ...

    If your ability to pay is to your advantage not guarantee a minimum income necessary because in your will you can decide not to pay for months.

    If you do not pay monthly subscription, your ability to think and take weight on the most important changes would have to see reduced.

    Politically it is something that companies try to avoid a matter of diplomacy (to please everyone) but the reality is undeniable.

    There should be NO SEGREGATION from players. Everyone BOUGHT the game. The difference is those on ESOPlus(subs) get crowns, future DLC, and other things for free, while non subs have to pay with Crowns to buy future DLC.

    BOTH support the game and ZoS.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]
    Edited by ZOS_ShannonM on March 25, 2015 12:34AM
    NA Megaserver / RPer
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  • cyqa
    cyqa
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    I have been getting warm and fuzzy feelings about this community today.

    The fact that the overwhelming majority is in favour of inclusion instead of segregation, is just really great.
  • BlackEar
    BlackEar
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    What madness is this?

    Is that how you constitute democracy in your country?
    The "rich peoples'" opinion somehow has more weight?

    I, as a paid subscriber, think this is a horrible idea.
    Bjorn Blackbear - Master Angler - Collector - Black Market Mogul - Ebonheart Pact - Exterminatus - EU.

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  • Betahkiin
    Betahkiin
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    Betahkiin wrote: »
    Slurg wrote: »
    Betahkiin wrote: »
    Slurg wrote: »
    Wait what? That was kind of rambly but I think you're trying to say that ideas that come from someone brand new but subscribed to the game are somehow inherently better than ideas from someone with more experience with the game but who dropped their subscription (even if they spend more a month on the crown shop that the subscriber does).

    That is wrong.


    What they mean is that ideas or preferences of those who do not pay should not affect the general consensus of those who fund the game monthly and uninterruptedly.

    Moreover it has no logic monthly spend more money in the store without being a subscriber because that way you must pay extra DLC.

    If someone is going to spend in the store a monthly sum exceeding one month of play and will do so constant and uninterrupted, you should be a subscriber and buy extra crowns.
    No one is going to tell me how and when to pay for what I want in the game. I see now this is yet another one of these "punish the non-subscribers because they are inferior" threads though and I don't believe in being petty like that so I will be taking my leave now.

    You are wrong ...

    If your ability to pay is to your advantage not guarantee a minimum income necessary because in your will you can decide not to pay for months.

    If you do not pay monthly subscription, your ability to think and take weight on the most important changes would have to see reduced.

    Politically it is something that companies try to avoid a matter of diplomacy (to please everyone) but the reality is undeniable.

    Oh god he's putting his .... opinion over in this thread now after the original one he made was locked down.

    Please do not comment on Betahkiin's posts. He made a similar topic here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160454/separation-instance-for-subscribers#latest and it got nasty, and had to be locked down.

    There should be NO SEGREGATION from players. Everyone BOUGHT the game. The difference is those on ESOPlus(subs) get crowns, future DLC, and other things for free, while non subs have to pay with Crowns to buy future DLC.

    BOTH support the game and ZoS.

    As I see you like to lie and defame others:

    A - My comments on this issue began before the other thread was closed.

    B - The other issue was closed by verbal abuse of others when commenting, not the topic of the item in question or by providing different views (you can see the explanation of employee ZOS).

    C - Encourage others to ignore a particular user and defame goes against the code of conduct.

    Greetings!
  • Tabbycat
    Tabbycat
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    Everyone who plays invests something into the game whether it be currency or time. And since time has value...
    Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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  • Betahkiin
    Betahkiin
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    cyqa wrote: »
    I have been getting warm and fuzzy feelings about this community today.

    The fact that the overwhelming majority is in favour of inclusion instead of segregation, is just really great.


    Majority in based on what numbers?

    The participation of the forum does not reflect the majority of a community, just look at the number of users involved.
    BlackEar wrote: »
    What madness is this?

    Is that how you constitute democracy in your country?
    The "rich peoples'" opinion somehow has more weight?

    I, as a paid subscriber, think this is a horrible idea.

    Democracy?

    This is a business where the product owner sets the rules of use.

    There is no place for democracy and consensus, the final word belongs to the company.

    Yes, in the business world, people with more money rules, is not new.
    Edited by Betahkiin on March 24, 2015 10:46PM
  • izenkim_ESO
    izenkim_ESO
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    Obscure wrote: »
    in 2015 have generated over $75 million dollars entirely from crowd funding with zero investors, I would have laughed directly into your face

    Minor point, they received $75 million from investors. Crowd funding is not funding without investors, it simply opens up the investor pool for a lot more people.
  • cyqa
    cyqa
    ✭✭✭
    Betahkiin wrote: »
    cyqa wrote: »
    I have been getting warm and fuzzy feelings about this community today.

    The fact that the overwhelming majority is in favour of inclusion instead of segregation, is just really great.


    Mayoria en base a que numeros?

    La participacion del foro no refleja la mayoria de una comunidad, basta con mirar la cantidad de usuarios que participan.

    I agree that there are no cold, hard numbers on who supports this idea (and the one in your earlier thread) and who doesn't. I was specifically talking about the active forum community (usernames that I've come to read every day when I visit)- because you're right, we will never know what the community at large thinks. I still think it's great that people are speaking against segregation; maybe I shouldn't have termed it "overwhelming majority".

  • Betahkiin
    Betahkiin
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    Tabbycat wrote: »
    Everyone who plays invests something into the game whether it be currency or time. And since time has value...

    Time is precious for you, not for the company. I do not think their employees and investors accept time as profit for their efforts
  • sylviermoone
    sylviermoone
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    Man, what is UP with all these "people that don't subscribe aren't as good as people who do" theads?!

    No one is playing the game for free. Everyone playing purchased it. Some are also purchasing crowns. Some have canceled their subscriptions while waiting to see if the investment of subscribing is worth the DLC that will be offered. Some are people that subscribed for periods of time initially, but left the game for whatever reason, and are now returning.

    Everyone that purchased the game and is or has played it should feel that their opinions or suggestions are of equal weight. Threads like this stink of elitism, to me.

    And yes, I am a subscriber, and have been since day one. Never lapsed, even when I took four months off.
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  • Betahkiin
    Betahkiin
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    cyqa wrote: »
    Betahkiin wrote: »
    cyqa wrote: »
    I have been getting warm and fuzzy feelings about this community today.

    The fact that the overwhelming majority is in favour of inclusion instead of segregation, is just really great.


    Mayoria en base a que numeros?

    La participacion del foro no refleja la mayoria de una comunidad, basta con mirar la cantidad de usuarios que participan.

    I agree that there are no cold, hard numbers on who supports this idea (and the one in your earlier thread) and who doesn't. I was specifically talking about the active forum community (usernames that I've come to read every day when I visit)- because you're right, we will never know what the community at large thinks. I still think it's great that people are speaking against segregation; maybe I shouldn't have termed it "overwhelming majority".

    In those terms if I agree.

    Majority, from a minority that participates in the forums.

    ¨Sometimes I forget what language I comment XD¨
  • Gyudan
    Gyudan
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    ✭✭
    I'm a monthly subscriber and I think the 10% bonus to everything should be removed.
    Wololo.
  • Betahkiin
    Betahkiin
    ✭✭✭✭
    Man, what is UP with all these "people that don't subscribe aren't as good as people who do" theads?!

    No one is playing the game for free. Everyone playing purchased it. Some are also purchasing crowns. Some have canceled their subscriptions while waiting to see if the investment of subscribing is worth the DLC that will be offered. Some are people that subscribed for periods of time initially, but left the game for whatever reason, and are now returning.

    Everyone that purchased the game and is or has played it should feel that their opinions or suggestions are of equal weight. Threads like this stink of elitism, to me.

    And yes, I am a subscriber, and have been since day one. Never lapsed, even when I took four months off.

    What happens is that because not all think alike, decide to propose an idea in a forum where they often propose ideas and share views.

    The unfortunate thing is intolerance of those who do not accept a different point of view and attack.

    Simply express their differences without attacking or insulting those who think differently.

    Having a forum where everyone thinks the same and ignores the differing is meaningless.

    The forum is not intended as a brotherhood, is a place for share different points of view.
  • Muizer
    Muizer
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    In this proposal, will I be able to buy forum post rights in the crown store? :/
    Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!
  • Tabbycat
    Tabbycat
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    ✭✭✭
    Betahkiin wrote: »
    Tabbycat wrote: »
    Everyone who plays invests something into the game whether it be currency or time. And since time has value...

    Time is precious for you, not for the company. I do not think their employees and investors accept time as profit for their efforts

    Let's say you are a subscriber. You pay your fee of $15

    Now let's say Joe bought the game at release but didn't play beyond the 30 days because he couldn't afford the sub. Now the games gone buy to play. He returns to the game. He has so much fun, he talks 3 of his friends into buying the game at $60 a piece. That's $180.

    You would have to subscribe for one full year to generate as much revenue as this guy did who didn't pay a subscription.

    So, you see, just because a person doesn't pay a sub doesn't mean there isn't another way they are generating revenue for ZOS whether that is by encouraging friends to buy the game or by simply purchasing crowns and buying items from the crown store.

    Stating that a subscriber has more value is flawed.

    And I say this having been subscribed to ESO from the beginning (as evidenced by my Grumpy Cat mount).
    Edited by Tabbycat on March 24, 2015 11:02PM
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