nirnhoned broken again

Valnas

I applaud fixing the fact that it was going through armor entirely.

As tested, sharpened staffs and 1hs weapons are giving more penetration than nirnhoned equivalents compared with identical bars.

WHY? ?????

Fruitdog

That is *** hilarious! GG ZOS!

Lhorion

You tested on 2.0.1?

Ezareth

Valnas wrote: »

I applaud fixing the fact that it was going through armor entirely.

As tested, sharpened staffs and 1hs weapons are giving more penetration than nirnhoned equivalents compared with identical bars.

WHY? ?????

I knew this was going to happen. I even called it out a likely when they said they were going to "fix" it.

They did the same thing with Sharpened. When they "fixed" it it never worked correctly.

I don't understand why Spell Penetration has to be so difficult or confusing in this game. This whole focus rating system is just crap.

I have a Legendary Sharpened Sword and Full Light armor and I couldn't even fully penetrate 2,000 spell resist last night.

I made my Legendary Nirnhoned staff back in 1.5 after they broke Sharpened and found it to be worse than Sharpened instead. Now it appears it is back to square 1.

/sigh

FENGRUSH

Whos shocked though?

Fruitdog

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Whos shocked though?

Absolutely nobody should be at this point.

wrathofrraath

I just tested it with molten whip on flame atros.

No CP in spell pen or apprentice stone
32,416 magicka

epic sharpened staff (12%):
1989 spell power
molten whip: 5929 base *8952* crit

legendary nirn staff (18%):
2029 spell power
molten whip: 5881 base *8880* crit

Armitas

Manually removed. (not constructive)

Sylvyr

If you drink enough the numbers switch to where they should be.

Ezareth

wrathofrraath wrote: »

I just tested it with molten whip on flame atros.

No CP in spell pen or apprentice stone
32,416 magicka

epic sharpened staff (12%):
1989 spell power
molten whip: 5929 base *8952* crit

legendary nirn staff (18%):
2029 spell power
molten whip: 5881 base *8880* crit

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom How can you guys continue to do this? Nirnhoned Weapons have been broken since release. Why is this so difficult to do right? Do you realize with the advent of 1.6 and the abundance of Spell Resistance how important spell penetration is? None of it works right and it takes someone literally 5 minutes to test these things after making changes in order to determine they are not working correctly.

All of the values reported on the tooltips of these weapons are *100% Arbitrary*. They don't correlate to each other and they surely don't correlate to what they should be doing. A Legendary Sharpened Sword with 7% Spell Penetration does not give half of the Penetration of a Legendary Staff with %14 Penetration. Two Legendary Sharpened Swords with 14% combined penetration do not even surpass a common Sharpened Staff with 8% Penetration. Please find someone in your development team who cares enough to look at this long enough to do it right!

Rune_Relic

Clearly sharpened is broken now

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

There is a bug with the Sharpened Trait that we're working on a fix for.

As a reminder, we understand frustration over outstanding bugs, but please keep it constructive and respectful.

Morvul

Ezareth wrote: »

wrathofrraath wrote: »

I just tested it with molten whip on flame atros.

No CP in spell pen or apprentice stone
32,416 magicka

epic sharpened staff (12%):
1989 spell power
molten whip: 5929 base *8952* crit

legendary nirn staff (18%):
2029 spell power
molten whip: 5881 base *8880* crit

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom How can you guys continue to do this? Nirnhoned Weapons have been broken since release. Why is this so difficult to do right? Do you realize with the advent of 1.6 and the abundance of Spell Resistance how important spell penetration is? None of it works right and it takes someone literally 5 minutes to test these things after making changes in order to determine they are not working correctly.

All of the values reported on the tooltips of these weapons are *100% Arbitrary*. They don't correlate to each other and they surely don't correlate to what they should be doing. A Legendary Sharpened Sword with 7% Spell Penetration does not give half of the Penetration of a Legendary Staff with %14 Penetration. Two Legendary Sharpened Swords with 14% combined penetration do not even surpass a common Sharpened Staff with 8% Penetration. Please find someone in your development team who cares enough to look at this long enough to do it right!

And it is not just spell penetration from weapon traits. The spell pen from the Champion system also seems wonky (read as: does not actually give spellpenetration)

Morvul

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There is a bug with the Sharpened Trait that we're working on a fix for.

As a reminder, we understand frustration over outstanding bugs, but please keep it constructive and respectful.

With all due respect, there is more then one bug. The entire spellpenetration system is kind of a mess, with tool tip values apparently not correlating with actuall penetration values

KarshtheWraith

Who cares about game breaking bugs? IT HAS ARRIVED!!! CROWN STORE WHOOO!

Valnas

alright, so sharp is reducing armor and spell resist and thus, spell resist doubly ?

and thank you for the quick reply and that they've identified it.

HyperToxic

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There is a bug with the Sharpened Trait that we're working on a fix for.

As a reminder, we understand frustration over outstanding bugs, but please keep it constructive and respectful.

Here is my attempt at being constructive and respectful.

There is a new bug with Nirnhoned and it provides much less Focus Rating than the stated amount on the tool tip.

Haven's Extended Stats show the following Focus Ratings (full light armor & legendary inferno staff):

Precise: Focus Rating 4841
Nirnhoned: Focus Rating 4912
Sharpend: Focus Rating 11618

The amount of penetration for Sharpend should be +14% and for Nirnhoned should be +18%

Here is my attempt at doing the math:

If my base Focus Rating from passives is 4841 then Sharpend should give 4841 + (4841 * 0.14) = 5518
If my base Focus Rating from passives is 4841 then Nirnhoned should give 4841 + (4841 * 0.18) = 5712

ZOS: If it does not work this way - then please for the love of god explain. These have never ever worked correctly. People are tired of wasting all their legendary mats.

Please have someone that knows what they are doing balance them together once and finally.

Teargrants

Math is hard.

Cereally now, from the look of things all they did was revert to the old bugged code that mad made nirnhoned useless the past 6 months. ZOS, I literally cannot even with you right now.

RinaldoGandolphi

I'm not sure, but they did fix the concentration light armor passive so it does give spell pen, it wasn't before I dont think, its in the patch notes.

Valnas

using a precise equivalent and a nirn with streak
2486 nirn
2366 precise non crit

120 dmg = 5%~ different on base hits.

1556 vs 1586 on fury (30/1586 = 1.8%)

5318 5416 frag (1.8%)

Both staffs are gold so we are comparing 5 lt vs 5 lt + a gold nirnhoned 2h staff

i can only guess something about my high elf or elemental passives are altering the ration on streak because of shock vs magick dmg here.

wrathofrraath

Can I post my DPS with nirn now without being called an exploiter ? and if anyone does so with a sharpened staff does that make them the exploiter ? Trying to make progress with my build

HyperToxic

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There is a bug with the Sharpened Trait that we're working on a fix for.

As a reminder, we understand frustration over outstanding bugs, but please keep it constructive and respectful.

Is the fix going to be like the "FIX" for nirnhoned? Make is useless and give less sell penetration than the tool tip suggests? The reason I ask is because I would like to have one crafted. Really, I don't know if Nirnhoned is going to be rebuffed or if sharpened is going to be nerfed into the ground.

Please give us some insight.

Valnas

After a lot more testing:

Nirnhoned is giving us 1.8% benefit, not 18% as the tooltip states. can we update this tooltip please.

also, shock dmg is pentrating armor in a bizarre manner, My Crushing shock dmg is favoring the lightning particularly.

danno8

Valnas wrote: »

After a lot more testing:

Nirnhoned is giving us 1.8% benefit, not 18% as the tooltip states. can we update this tooltip please.

also, shock dmg is pentrating armor in a bizarre manner, My Crushing shock dmg is favoring the lightning particularly.

Any cp points could be adding shock damage? Or opponents cp points reducing?

ToRelax

This is such a mess, I really don't understand how they can keep being that lazy with the spell resistance/penetration system.

I'll not be happy once I see all the rosin i saved for the next patch during 1.5 will be wasted .

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Valnas wrote: »

After a lot more testing:

Nirnhoned is giving us 1.8% benefit, not 18% as the tooltip states. can we update this tooltip please.

also, shock dmg is pentrating armor in a bizarre manner, My Crushing shock dmg is favoring the lightning particularly.

Any cp points could be adding shock damage? Or opponents cp points reducing?

Only together with frost and fire damage.

Edit:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There is a bug with the Sharpened Trait that we're working on a fix for.

As a reminder, we understand frustration over outstanding bugs, but please keep it constructive and respectful.

Seeing Awesomes appear I think we really need LOL back .

Wreuntzylla

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There is a bug with the Sharpened Trait that we're working on a fix for.

As a reminder, we understand frustration over outstanding bugs, but please keep it constructive and respectful.

Although I don't rely on either trait, if you really understood the level of frustration over a very long term issue, you would not chide the posters over their frustration. You would thank them for their patience.

Derra

Hm anyone really getting higher numbers with sharpened? I mean like on actual enemies not with harvens in the character screen.

wrathofrraath

Derra wrote: »

Hm anyone really getting higher numbers with sharpened? I mean like on actual enemies not with harvens in the character screen.

Yes the molten whips vs flame atros were tested in spellscar.

Lorkhan

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There is a bug with the Sharpened Trait that we're working on a fix for.

As a reminder, we understand frustration over outstanding bugs, but please keep it constructive and respectful.

maybe we just want to say HOW MUCH frustated we are.

Taonnor

I need some correct numbers:

1. How much spell resist did negate the 5/5 light armor bonus?
2. How much spell resist did negate the nirnhorned trait now?
3. How much spell resist did negate the CP points?

Please in one unit (% or spell resist)

Tankqull

Derra wrote: »

Hm anyone really getting higher numbers with sharpened? I mean like on actual enemies not with harvens in the character screen.

in cyrodiil i´m having the same numbers as yesterday where i used sharpend as well.