How do you feel about the changes to Redguard and Orc armor designs

Steinschlag

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

textures ok, but rest is in one word: terrible -.-

wrlifeboil

IRL there is something called the hemline indicator where women's hemlines supposedly go higher when the economy is good and go lower when the economy is not so good.

ESO devs have altered necklines but if necklines can be used as an in-game proxy for hemlines, is the ESO economy tanking?

The_Drexill

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

Raygee wrote: »

Usually people ask before they use other people's material, or at least name the source.
But whatever, keep it in, in this case it's not that much of a big deal.

As if you had artistic rights to a screen shot of things you didn't draw. I'm going to take a picture of something in a museum and cry when people don't credit me for hanging a copy.

Anyway, hardly anyone endorsed the changes, and now the Dev's are fueling the fire with a half-assed response. You guys screwed up big, just admit it. If you mess up something small like armor, we sure can't trust you with large design decisions.

Faulgor

I prefer the new armor designs

Absolutely love them, wish they would overhaul all styles. Redguard medium is not my cup of tea stylistically, though.

Cathrin

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

The new design looks like some super hero outfit. I wouldn't mind having them in the game, but I would also like to have the old designs, as many of them were quite unique and fitting for the race that wears them.

Using a male torso doesn't even make sense, as they were already in the game (yeah, lost now lol). It is ok for future designs, but this change was just unnecessary.

Anyway, I am going back and save Krypton... err, Tamriel!

up up and away!

Eekshnerf

I prefer the new armor designs

I like the new armor and I'll tell you why. Its armor. Its not a dress. Its not a gown. Its armor. You know what gets left opened to attack when you have a boob window? Nothing important, just your lungs, heart, no worries. Should this be available as laundered clothing or even an override? Sure. Problem with an override is that it would be in the crown store, and that would make ZOS seem like they're selling skimpy outfits. Probably not the statement they're going for, with all the other flak they get.

Haqikah

I prefer the new armor designs

I prefer the new Redguard light armor to the previous style; currently wearing this on my V5 Sorceress

aander91

Definitely completely behind ZO's "desexualization" of armor. It's been one of my pet peeves ever since I started playing MMOs. It's completely immersion breaking when a half naked woman wearing boobplate and hardly any pants tanks a dungeon for me. I've grown accustomed to it (unfortunately) but it's lame that people can't have fun without being completely objectifying.

If the armor is skimpy, it should be skimpy for both genders because that what the armor is and not because ZO is contributing to a model of subordination. Women can be warriors too, just like men. They don't have to be visually appealing for me to a play your game, I'll play it because its a good game. Thanks for sticking your neck out on this one ZO.

ElfFromSpace

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

Actually the redguard light for males WAS an open shirt and a lot of players loved it too. Both genders of the destroyed costumes were awesome and even worse than the impact on the players is having to stare at that junk in an entire 2 zones worth of NPCs. I have only the pirate screenshot that i can put my finger on at the moment.

Still kind of amazed at some people's prudishness. You have the choice to dress conservatively, but that's not enough. You say it ruins your game if someone else choses a less stiff fantasy look? It's pretty lame that someone would want to take away options from other players just so they can try to imagine that in a world with giant mushrooms and magic spells that the magic users who are getting practically NO protection from their armor and are using spells instead, should be FORCED to dress like men.

Djeriko

Has anyone noticed that when you wear a Redguard heavy girdle with the higher level (such as Dwarven ore or higher) that the buckle is lowered in height on the character than any of the other girdles? This causes the buckle to not be even in contact with the belt any more as well as cause a clipping issue with the rest of the armor when the character moves or even stand with a weapon ready?

^posted this in in game bug notices too... just making sure it's heard.

While on the new redguard heavy style, the design is ok but the dyed system on it is kinda unpolished. For one the feather plume on the redguard heavy helm now always has a black color. Was this intentional? Also the first redguard verson did not have a third color on the boots. This has been fixed but now the greaves do not have a second dye color and the primary and tertiary dyes have been reversed meaning the last dye has the most area and the primary has the least area (WAS THIS INTENTIONAL?). Once the greaves reach a high enough level they do acquire the blades on the side of the thighs but they stay the same color as the rest of the armor, seems like a perfect dyeable area wasted... And the heavy helm which previously had lots of almost evenly spaced dyed areas is almost all one color now which is another dyeable area wasted. I mean the top of the helm could be one color, the chainmail or cloth on the back can be another. Now it's forced to be all one dyed color. I miss the older versions dyed areas (sigh).

Oh and thankfully we can now dye the jewels in the redguard armor! (kind of...) Basically the old verson had those turquoise colored jewels all over the place but now they jewels can change color but often they change into some other random uncontrolled color depending on your secondary color choice which often results in a color that doesn't look right. Wouldn't it be logical to have something small like the jewel controlled by the tertiary color?

aander91

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

It's pretty lame that someone would want to take away options from other players just so they can try to imagine that in a world with giant mushrooms and magic spells that the magic users who are getting practically NO protection from their armor and are using spells instead, should be FORCED to dress like men.

I'm not sure how this is dressing like a man. A chain shirt looks like a chain shirt on a male or a female. However, as you've pointed out, you CAN dress like a woman, which is listed in your OP as "elegant and sexy."

bellanca6561n

I like none of the changes.

In fond memory of the dearly departed....

Crafty Lerissa sees the costume they are selling in her name...

Oh, and it looked good on Redguards too.....and they seem none too pleased either....

Bye bye "boob window."

Of course, "boob windows" don't look good on everyone...

And, finally, farewell to the Seadrake disguise...

IrishGirlGamer

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

I rather liked the previous versions, particularly the Redguard light and medium armors tops. I was disappointed when I logged on and saw the changes, particularly since I modeled one of my "armors" after the Sea Drake outfits, which I thought were well done and very thematic artistically.

I doubt the change was made to remove "skin" since the Sea Drake outfit doesn't reveal that much - and really, if they wanted to remove skin, Zeni could have dressed all the characters in long underwear, right? I mean, if that was the reason, what's to prevent someone from running around Tamriel in nothing at all?

The change was made because it's "armor"? Meh. I don't really buy that either. Not everyone who carries a sword or a bow wears body armor - and the truth of that statement should be so evident that no further examples are necessary. If they were concerned about realism they could have dropped the armor rating - although I'm sure that would have inspired an entirely different type of complaint.

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

Women Object to these Sexist Changes. In my last thread I jokingly commented about cleavage, and that seems to have made people mistakenly assume I'm just a horny guy. The redguard light armor was attractive, feminine, and appealing to women players who wanted to have an armor option that makes them look like a woman.

Personally, I don't think that way and I really don't know that many women who do. (Well, maybe Sansa, but look what happened to her. For Arya and the rest of us, no.) When I'm in game, I'm not looking to wear a big sign over my head that says, "Woman here!" I'm comfortable wearing what I want to regardless of what "message" it sends to the rest of the Tamriel gaming world.

I'm curious: did the male versions change too? I've never played as a male and so I don't know what the armor looked like on a girl ...

Dudis

I don't mind some of the changes... This for example looks way better now and it has nothing to do with pixelated boobs.

MornaBaine

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

As someone who thought the "boob window" on heavy armor was childish and silly, I don't mind seeing it go away. And they DID improve the textures. But the ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE redesign of the Redguard Light robes...yeah THAT I am never going to forgive them for.

Hexi

It's obviously a plan to monetize on skimply outfits in the crown store.

Mark my words.

Shaarizad

I don't wear these armors, and or don't care that much about armor design

I haven't worn these armors and thus can't say what I think personally about the style differences. I did like the added variety that was brought by having a mix of more and less revealing armor styles, and I'm disappointed that the changes have decreased this variety.

However, I strongly disagree that the changes made were sexist, and I think that to some extent they were necessary. The statement made by changing the female armor is not that "all adventurers are men", it is that "all adventurers are equal". A man wearing full body armor is equal to a woman wearing full body armor, and a woman who isn't fully covered in armor is equal to a man who isn't fully covered. This is the precedent set by previous elder scrolls games, in contrast to some other MMOs where the equivalent of a man wearing full armor is a woman wearing the most revealing armor possible. The same piece of armor should look the same whether it's on a man or a woman, and that's why they made the changes. I would be just as happy if they made the male armor more revealing to match the female's, as they did with some of the bosmer armor:


But I don't think that would have gone over well with everyone either. I would be happy if they made an alternative style that was more like the original, as long as it looked the same on men. Except for the orc armor - that needed to go; no self-respecting orc, female or otherwise, would wear heavy armor just to go and let someone stab them right in the heart.

MercyKilling

I like none of the changes.

Didn't like them before, don't like them now.

Honestly don't much like any of the armors in the game. Would've really preferred that when they (the devs) said the game will be moddable they meant like the last three single player games and not just the UI.



Still hoping for cosmetic modding one day.

Edit:

My main from GW2(when I used to play it) and I love the outfit. Wish it was here, in this game:

Shaarizad

I don't wear these armors, and or don't care that much about armor design

MercyKilling wrote: »

Didn't like them before, don't like them now.

Honestly don't much like any of the armors in the game. Would've really preferred that when they (the devs) said the game will be moddable they meant like the last three single player games and not just the UI.



Still hoping for cosmetic modding one day.

I would enjoy cosmetic modding, but I don't see how it could be implemented. They could do it so other people can see your modded armor, which would go over horribly when you consider people's wildly varying opinions on what type of armor belongs in an elder scrolls game. Or they could do it so you have the ability to mod only your own client, which aside from being a rather shallow experience, might very well allow some clever person to manipulate the system for their own benefit. I don't know what this would look like because I'm not that clever, but I can imagine mods that make everyone in PVP wearing some competitive set show up in neon green.

ElfFromSpace

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

Does anyone have any screenshots of the redguard male light armors? It WAS also somewhat revealing with an open shirt top. This is the best picture I could find, of the male Seadrake disguise using the same top as the light redguard

akredon_ESO

I prefer the new armor designs

lol gamers are never happy, Either they complain about bikini plate or they complain that they dont have bikini plate xD
The orc armor did not look functional you have a giant hole in the front chest plate for the boobs. kinda defeats the purpose of the armor

BBSooner

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

For those of you decrying the boob window as unfunctional, so is boob plate (which is on 100% of ESO's female armor). This is only adding realism for people who have no idea how armor actually works.

That of course isn't even mentioning the seducer/saint costumes that were vastly more scantily clad than the 2 inches of cleavage on the Orsimer.

Shaarizad

I don't wear these armors, and or don't care that much about armor design

The boob plate is extremely non-functional and silly, but that's a technological limitation rather than an artistic choice - chestplates are drawn on, not modeled, so they have to conform to the shape of the torso.

Schurge

I really don't care enough to do the research but most of the example changes given by the Space Elf on the first page looked to me just as feminine as attractive (though I guess not as sexy) as the originals aside from one... hideous hideous dress that made the woman's upper torso look mutilated.

That said, I can understand the upset... I prefer my male characters to be wearing nothing but a gut-plate, war paint, and ritualistic scarring... all of which are historically accurate.

snowsong

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

,

Dudis wrote: »

I don't mind some of the changes... This for example looks way better now and it has nothing to do with pixelated boobs.

No offense, but i like the BEFORE one better. Having the choices there still, would be nicer, perhaps.

snowsong

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

Shaarizad wrote: »

I haven't worn these armors and thus can't say what I think personally about the style differences. I did like the added variety that was brought by having a mix of more and less revealing armor styles, and I'm disappointed that the changes have decreased this variety.

However, I strongly disagree that the changes made were sexist, and I think that to some extent they were necessary. The statement made by changing the female armor is not that "all adventurers are men", it is that "all adventurers are equal". A man wearing full body armor is equal to a woman wearing full body armor, and a woman who isn't fully covered in armor is equal to a man who isn't fully covered. This is the precedent set by previous elder scrolls games, in contrast to some other MMOs where the equivalent of a man wearing full armor is a woman wearing the most revealing armor possible. The same piece of armor should look the same whether it's on a man or a woman, and that's why they made the changes. I would be just as happy if they made the male armor more revealing to match the female's, as they did with some of the bosmer armor:


But I don't think that would have gone over well with everyone either. I would be happy if they made an alternative style that was more like the original, as long as it looked the same on men. Except for the orc armor - that needed to go; no self-respecting orc, female or otherwise, would wear heavy armor just to go and let someone stab them right in the heart.

As in this picture, the male 'armor' here looks really good. @Shaarizad, i totally agree about liking the variation we used to have. We are not playing a game as Puritans afterall, and I do not think ANY of the previous armors were too sexy or revealing for ESO, and nobody had to wear them if they did not want to. Now we have simply lost those choices.

snowsong

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

MercyKilling wrote: »

Didn't like them before, don't like them now.

Honestly don't much like any of the armors in the game. Would've really preferred that when they (the devs) said the game will be moddable they meant like the last three single player games and not just the UI.



Still hoping for cosmetic modding one day.

Edit:

My main from GW2(when I used to play it) and I love the outfit. Wish it was here, in this game:

@MercyKilling, the armor you have in this picture looks really good. I would like something like this in ESO too. Did you mod this or was it vanilla?

,

snowsong

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

Actually the redguard light for males WAS an open shirt and a lot of players loved it too. Both genders of the destroyed costumes were awesome and even worse than the impact on the players is having to stare at that junk in an entire 2 zones worth of NPCs. I have only the pirate screenshot that i can put my finger on at the moment.

Still kind of amazed at some people's prudishness. You have the choice to dress conservatively, but that's not enough. You say it ruins your game if someone else choses a less stiff fantasy look? It's pretty lame that someone would want to take away options from other players just so they can try to imagine that in a world with giant mushrooms and magic spells that the magic users who are getting practically NO protection from their armor and are using spells instead, should be FORCED to dress like men.

@ElfFromSpace. Very well said. I totally agree with all you said, including what you had to say about choices. Besides, the previous choices of attire were not unreasonable. Perhaps no reason to take them away could trump having that variety, and more such choices.

Frosthammer

I like none of the changes.

Their response didn't really explain that awful change to the redguard light helmets. I just want my awesome masked vizier helmet back. This nasty bosmer hood just isn't cutting it as a replacement.

snowsong

I like the new textures/sharpened lines, but do not like many of the design changes

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

Actually the redguard light for males WAS an open shirt and a lot of players loved it too. Both genders of the destroyed costumes were awesome and even worse than the impact on the players is having to stare at that junk in an entire 2 zones worth of NPCs. I have only the pirate screenshot that i can put my finger on at the moment.

Still kind of amazed at some people's prudishness. You have the choice to dress conservatively, but that's not enough. You say it ruins your game if someone else choses a less stiff fantasy look? It's pretty lame that someone would want to take away options from other players just so they can try to imagine that in a world with giant mushrooms and magic spells that the magic users who are getting practically NO protection from their armor and are using spells instead, should be FORCED to dress like men.

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

ESO Responded to my question finally, and I appreciate it. I wish I'd worded the question better since the answer didn't really address the main part of the concern. What upsets me to the point that I am again considering unsubscribing is how dismissive the staff is of the player's feelings.

Thousands of players chose these armor styles, picked them out of the dozens of options, crafted them, dyed them and proudly wore them because we LIKED them! I particularly liked the unique, relaxed, and culturally appropriate look of the redguard light armor. Logging in to see that armor changed into something that bears almost no resemblance to what I chose and crafted is a big blow. The "Boob window" may have been a mistake, but a lot of players chose that one costume out of the dozen options available because they enjoyed having something with a little more fantasy feel to it.

Women Object to these Sexist Changes. In my last thread I jokingly commented about cleavage, and that seems to have made people mistakenly assume I'm just a horny guy. The redguard light armor was attractive, feminine, and appealing to women players who wanted to have an armor option that makes them look like a woman. The ESO response was kind of confusing it sounded like they are making all women's armor male torsos with a few tweaks (2 lumps added on). This is why I'm so offended. ESO may not have intended this, but it gives the message "Adventurers are male. Female adventurers will be men with breasts taped on" In an earlier conversation about the change I was advised to buy the wedding dress in the crown store. Since that is the ONLY feminine garb available now, ESO is sending a strong sexist message "You either adventure like a man, or get a wedding dress and be a housewife like a proper woman"

This was NOT a slutty outfit! This is something many women would enjoy wearing IRL! It is far more realistic than the new one.


Costumes: The other problems not addressed were the changes to existing costumes and ineffectiveness of the new costumes. The seadrake costume, forebear dishada costume and all of the NPCs in Alikr also were changed. And, to be blunt, they look horrible.



Adding a halter top to the crown store does not fix the problem. I feel stabbed in the gut by game makers who take away something I loved and then tell me that maybe, someday in the vague future I MIGHT be able to buy it back for real money. I had fully intended to stay subscribed to support the game. Now I don't want to because I don't want to be forced to pay just to keep the things I loved about the game.
On the other hand, the new clothing that we can steal is actually pretty nice! But... it's not usable. I don't understand why it takes the place of our current armor so we can't actually use it outside of towns.

Seadrake Disguise Change by BROTHER_NUMSIE



RESOLUTION:
I know this isn't what you want, but I really really believe ESO should take the old design for redguard light amd medium just make the minor tweaks to the textures and roll everything back. The reason this is so important is the NPCs. No matter how many crowns I spend, I can't help poor Lady Larrisa. This new design, if some players like it could be rolled out as a new Burka Motif. This would fix our costumes our NPCs and allow the gamemakers to use their new design.
If that won't be done, then at least make clothing layer over top of armor and then released the redguard light armor styles as a clothing that we can get without crowns.
Even the armors that look better overall, have select pieces that players may have used in combination with other styles and now the combined effects are ruined. I actually prefer the new look of many of the Orcish pieces, but some players worked hard perfecting combinations.

@ElfFromSpace, I see what you mean! When you look at the previous Sea Drake armor, it looks like what a Sea Drake would wear, but the changed set looks like a bib or something a great grandmother would wear while baking cookies. 'Burka' edition' LOL Good one! :P