ESO on consoles without Add-Ons
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Somehow you've turned this thread in to a "we need addons to play the spreadsheets game" thread. That's not what it's about.
The OP literally claims that the game is unplayable without addons. Not that it can't be played "as well". Not that they won't be able to get top trial times (because most people totally care). Not that they won't be able to pinpoint a combat bug. That they will not be able to play, period.
That is not the case. The game is perfectly enjoyable without addons. Most people playing MMOs never touch addons, because most people like playing games instead of doing math.
Actually, most people playing MMOs never touch addons because the company making the game decided to put more than 2 guys in the UI team and decided to make a decent UI.
I've never had to use addons before in an MMO because they where, you know, well made.
And for me and many, the game is unplayable without addons so it's safe to assume it will also be the case for a large number of console players. You just wait when console players come rushing the forums complaining about the UI
. Edited by TehMagnus on March 12, 2015 4:56PM4 -
Blade_07✭✭✭✭KontrolledKhaos wrote: »Not because I reckon consoles are inferior or anything (even though they are
), but because console players won't have any addons to use at all. Seriously, without addons this game is so much more of a hassle to play. I've got roughly 20 addons running right and I couldnt possibly imagine playing without them as theyre that crucial to me being able to enjoy the game.
Seriously, how are console players going to be able to play endgame dungeons effectively without any addons? The base game is lacking in so much basic information that it wouldnt be worth the trouble.
Edited, LenaicR: Thread's title edited.
Agree with OP 100%!
“Man can live about forty days without food, about three days without water, about eight minutes without air, but only for one second without hope.”1 -
BigM✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually, most people playing MMOs never touch addons because the company making the game decided to put more than 2 guys in the UI team and decided to make a decent UI.
I've never had to use addons before in an MMO because they where, you know, well made.
And for me and many, the game is unplayable without addons. You just wait when console players come rushing the forums complaining about the UI.
All games have had some type of addon mostly for UI. In the older days we use to call them macros. Now they just allow lua files to do some of the work those early macros use to do for us. Macros also caused a lot of hacks in game so am all for the lua put into games today.
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Stephen Hawking0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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All games have had some type of addon mostly for UI. In the older days we use to call them macros. Now they just allow lua files to do some of the work those early macros use to do for us. Macros also caused a lot of hacks in game so am all for the lua put into games today.
You do realize that most of the bots and hacks for the game are also coded in lua with Direct X hooks and that they are even "better/stronger" than they used to be because of it?
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Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »That is not the case. The game is perfectly enjoyable without addons. Most people playing MMOs never touch addons, because most people like playing games instead of doing math.
Every other MMO besides ESO has an UI that at least gives you damage numbers and a character screen with all details you have to know. ESO doesn't give you one of the mentioned things.So I guess what you guys are saying either have ZoS put in the addons or do not allow addons because the game shouldn't be able to use lua files if not done by ZoS. Really confused what you guys are asking for here?
As far as consoles go we should wait for beta to see exactly what they are doing with the UI.
We are asking for simple UI basics.1 -
Rust_in_Peace✭✭✭✭✭I would love to see console players with no addons face up against a team of people on pc using basic addons like FTC and greymind to show buffs and give hotkeys to potions and siege slots in pvp. It would be an absolute blowout.2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
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Every other MMO besides ESO has an UI that at least gives you damage numbers and a character screen with all details you have to know. ESO doesn't give you one of the mentioned things.
That's sad. But the game is still 100% playable.----
Murray?1 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
That's sad. But the game is still 100% playable.
An airplane is still capable of flying without any digital computers but nowadays everyone would consider that as foolishness.3 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
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An airplane is still capable of flying without any digital computers but nowadays everyone would consider that as foolishness.
We'll ignore that being a terrible analogy and focus on this:
The OP claimed that the game is unplayable without addons. I play the game without addons (as do most players). The OP is objectively wrong.----
Murray?1 -
Egonieser✭✭✭✭✭
✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Press Q and tell me that set up is for a PC and not a thumbstick.
Name one mmo that has the exact same basic commands as the console controller can handle even though it's being played on a keyboard.
And yes you are right saying they said each would have its own ui, but why is it so hard now to implement a proper PC ui.
I can name you one.
Defiance - a true multiplatform MMO on PC\Xbox\PS3 and same as here, the UI is very console like because they couldn't be bothered to give PCs a proper PC feel. But at least they have actual controller support and had it since launch.
Otherwise it's a damn fine MMO. I still play it now and then when i get bored from ESO.Edited by Egonieser on March 12, 2015 5:27PMSometimes, I dream about...cheese...
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Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
We'll ignore that being a terrible analogy and focus on this:
The OP claimed that the game is unplayable without addons. I play the game without addons (as do most players). The OP is objectively wrong.
It's not a terrible analogy it's a matter of fact.
Sure you can play ESO without any addons and it works properly, but you limit yourself as well the pilot is limiting himself without using proper devices.
You can play without numbers and character information, but you will never ever play with full potential. I claim that you don't even use 50% of the potential you could have with a proper UI.2 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Press Q and tell me that set up is for a PC and not a thumbstick.
Have you used a controller with this game? From the posts I have seen from those who do use a controller, the current Quickslot Scheme is not doing them any favors. I don't even need to try a controller to see that the current QS scheme is not set up for a controller. Nor is the UI.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
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Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"2 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »The OP claimed that the game is unplayable without addons. I play the game without addons (as do most players). The OP is objectively wrong.
Fine. Agreed. The OP's exact statement is objectively wrong. They game is obviously not "unplayable" without addons.
The theme behind the OP's post, that the game's UI is sorely lacking in what many (perhaps "most", but obviously not "all") people would consider very important features for their enjoyment of a game, is a subjective theme, and is not objectively wrong. You are doing nothing more than arguing semantics, as usual. I do not feel that you are contributing usefully to this thread. You've made your point, and you can stop now.
I would also say that your parenthetical opinion that "most" players play the game without addons is quite likely inaccurate. Multiple polls on these forums would indicate that the vast majority of at least the forum-goers DO indeed use, and rely on, addons.Edited by Divinius on March 12, 2015 9:38PM2 -
traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭
Fine. Agreed. The OP's exact statement is objectively wrong. They game is obviously not "unplayable" without addons.
The theme behind the OP's post, that the game's UI is sorely lacking in what many (perhaps "most", but obviously not "all") people would consider very important features for their enjoyment of a game, is a subjective theme, and is not objectively wrong. You are doing nothing more than arguing semantics, as usual. I do not feel that you are contributing usefully to this thread. You've made your point, and you can stop now.
I would also say that your parenthetical opinion that "most" players play the game without addons is quite likely inaccurate. Multiple polls on these forums would indicate that the vast majority of at least the forum-goers DO indeed use, and rely on, addons.
So the vast majority of the minority that uses the forums (a subset of which bothered to answer the poll)... errr...Edited by traigusb14_ESO2 on March 12, 2015 9:49PM0 -
Brick_XI✭✭This game is being made for consoles so it can be sold to the rental stores not a bunch of individual sales. How many of the console players are going to make it to endgame? I would assume not very many at all. AKA there is no need for addons when you are only renting it for a week or so.
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Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would also say that your parenthetical opinion that "most" players play the game without addons is quite likely inaccurate. Multiple polls on these forums would indicate that the vast majority of at least the forum-goers DO indeed use, and rely on, addons.
To be fair, players who visit gaming forums tend to be a lot more likely to actually look for addons.
There's a pretty large portion of the player base that doesn't bother doing either, however. And all evidence points to the game being targeted directly at those types of players, as they also tend to be a lot more casual / forgiving than us demanding, unsavory forum types. : P0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
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To be fair, players who visit gaming forums tend to be a lot more likely to actually look for addons.
There's a pretty large portion of the player base that doesn't bother doing either, however. And all evidence points to the game being targeted directly at those types of players, as they also tend to be a lot more casual / forgiving than us demanding, unsavory forum types. : P
Pretty much this.
Most forum-goers in WoW talk about raiding, but less than 5% of people playing that game actually do raids. Forums are not indicative of the playerbase as a whole.----
Murray?0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Pretty much this.
Most forum-goers in WoW talk about raiding, but less than 5% of people playing that game actually do raids. Forums are not indicative of the playerbase as a whole.
Can you please cite one verifiable source other than your biased personal opinion to support these claims and numbers?2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
We'll ignore that being a terrible analogy and focus on this:
The OP claimed that the game is unplayable without addons. I play the game without addons (as do most players). The OP is objectively wrong.
If you look at how many people have downloaded addons, it's safe to asume that most of the player base has used them and that people not using them such as youself are a minorty that is, as always, tying to impose their views and playstile to the rest of the players who are only asking for better quality of gameplay that comes at ZERO expense to people who like being ignorant.Edited by TehMagnus on March 12, 2015 11:52PM1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
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Can you please cite one verifiable source other than your biased personal opinion to support these claims and numbers?
It's fairly common knowledge. There are numerous sources about WoW's raiding frequency, and Blizzard actually mentioned that the reason behind the creation of Raid Finder was that they wanted more than a tiny fraction of their players to experience raid content. But I was just citing them as a popular example.
I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing. But most players don't focus on endgame content. Most players aren't "hardcore". Most players are the dreaded "casuals" who play games for fun and don't even know that the forums exist, much less that some users are enraged over things like UI design.----
Murray?0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
It's fairly common knowledge. There are numerous sources about WoW's raiding frequency, and Blizzard actually mentioned that the reason behind the creation of Raid Finder was that they wanted more than a tiny fraction of their players to experience raid content. But I was just citing them as a popular example.
I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing. But most players don't focus on endgame content. Most players aren't "hardcore". Most players are the dreaded "casuals" who play games for fun and don't even know that the forums exist, much less that some users are enraged over things like UI design.
Common knowledge? Where is there a proof of this common Knowledge you speak of? Who are the people claiming this? Who has made studies about the type of population that visit gaming forums? Were is the study about the population that visits these forums? Why are you talking about WOW? this isn't wow! it's ESO! both games have nothing do do with each other and raiding here is much much more easier which is why it's accessible to many more people including most of the casual players that aren't shy enough to find a casual guild with a decent amount of players which is the majority of them.
So, please, stop speaking of numbers that you can't prove and have not a single clue about and using them to support your selfish claims.
Edit: Oh and let's not deviate the subject here which is that a majority of people that care enough to speak find the UI lacking a lot of elements to be deemed a good one and the only reason you have to deny them is "I don't need them so too bad for you, i don't think you should get them". Let's not deviate from the fact that some people are just selfish enough to care enough about denying other people something that would make the game more enjoyable for them and that 99% of the other MMO makers deemed important enough to implement in their games.
Thanks.Edited by TehMagnus on March 13, 2015 12:05AM1 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What about people who don't want to be ignorant? Nobody is forcing you to analyze stuff and the fact it's not visible to you doesn't mean it isn't there.
So I really don't see the problem unless you're implying everyone should be ignorant because you want to be ignorant. Very "let's burn books"-like thinking.
The people who don't want to be ignorant can use add-ons. As specified before. Problem solved.
An implication that I would force other people into "ignorance" because I want to be? Hmmm, here's someone who hasn't read many of my posts... but by all means, feel free to draw inferences based on no evidence and misrepresent the results
. It makes for fun reading.
The information that you are talking about making available is specific to certain play styles. You want it included in the vanilla UI on the basis that it is a "basic" requirement... having defined that it is a basic requirement yourself based on the styles of play that you have referred to... and then you suggest that I am the one suggesting that other people's UI experience should conform to my desires? Interesting.
Do I think the UI needs changes? Yep. But I have no desire to see that type of statistical information added to the vanilla UI while there remains an option for those people who are interested to have it added. The inventory systems, stores, potion wheel (and so on) all need work to a greater or lesser extent, in my opinion, because these features are common to all play styles. Shoehorning further combat info into the character sheets (and so on) is not common to all play styles. Hence the optional bit.
It is on that basis that I actually agree with the spirit of the OP in that, without some of the functionality that add-ons provide, certain aspects playing on the consoles may be more difficult. However, as memory serves there has been mention of integrating some of the most used ones into the console version. Who knows, you may get your wish for a wall-o-numbers UI after all.Edited by Iluvrien on March 13, 2015 12:06AM0 -
LIQUID741✭✭✭I worry about the population once console's hit the market. A lot of the playerbase or at least a big chunk could leave for console. Honestly could see console's POP's at a great hight lvl and PC POP suffer for it..just a thought.Solid-Nightblade of AD0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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The people who don't want to be ignorant can use add-ons. As specified before. Problem solved.
The information that you are talking about making available is specific to certain play styles. You want it included in the vanilla UI on the basis that it is a "basic" requirement... having defined that it is a basic requirement yourself based on the styles of play that you have referred to... and then you suggest that I am the one suggesting that other people's UI experience should conform to my desires? Interesting.
Why should we use addons to have things that EVERY OTHER MMO has which can be considered as "Gaming Standard", more over, all and ANY modifications we ask for are always OPTIONAL, which means that you don't HAVE to use them if you don't want to, just like chat bubbles. So yes saying that the game shouldn't have those additions knowing they don't affect you, is imposing your playstyle to others and that's what transpired from your initial post.
Edited by TehMagnus on March 13, 2015 12:12AM1 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why should we use addons to have things that EVERY OTHER MMO has which can be considered as "Gaming Standard", more over, all and ANY modifications we ask for are always OPTIONAL, which means that you don't HAVE to use them if you don't want to, just like chat bubbles. So yes saying that the game shouldn't have those additions knowing they don't affect you, is imposing your playstyle to others and that's what transpired from your initial post.
1) Because you are defining "Gaming Standard" based on your own experience. Not on what is best for this game. You are arguing for a cookie cutter approach to UI design. Argue harder.
2) If that information appears on the vanilla version of my character sheet without me having to specify then I want to see it then it is not optional. Using it might be. Seeing it isn't. The UI as is (with the option of add-ons) gives me all the information I feel that I need. Other people have the option of having more.
3) Requiring them to be part of the vanilla game and requiring extra development time to include them is making an imposition. Suggesting that retaining the status quo (requiring no additional dev involvement) isn't.
I am disappointed. Usually you are better than this.0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
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1) Because you are defining "Gaming Standard" based on your own experience. Not on what is best for this game. You are arguing for a cookie cutter approach to UI design. Argue harder.
2) If that information appears on the vanilla version of my character sheet without me having to specify then I want to see it then it is not optional. Using it might be. Seeing it isn't. The UI as is (with the option of add-ons) gives me all the information I feel that I need. Other people have the option of having more.
3) Requiring them to be part of the vanilla game and requiring extra development time to include them is making an imposition. Suggesting that retaining the status quo (requiring no additional dev involvement) isn't.
I am disappointed. Usually you are better than this.
Every other MMO on the market at the moment RIft, SWTOR, WOW, FFIV, Wildstar, have comon UI elements and ease of use that ESO doesn't have, so you can consider ESO is substandard since it doesn't meet the standards that everybody else is using. You can argue it's different, it's "minimalistic" (worst excuse ever) but the fact is it's not as polished, customizable and functional as the UIs of most if not all popular MMOs on the market. This is not based on my experience, it's based on facts.
2) The information that appears on your character sheet: you can argue as any logical person would do that it's better to have too much than not enough. You can always ignore things that don't interest you, you can't do it the other way around. Moreover you're arguing about a tiny fraction of all the problems the UI has. Add-ons are not the solution and in this particular case, they cannot help us since they cannot show us what affect our characters because that information is not available to them. Hence we are forced to be ignorant, add-on or no add-on.
3) It's not making an imposition and don't talk to me about development time. The UI was deemed suck enough to get a revamp before it got switch to consoles and dev time has been consumed mostly by consoles which, afaik, PC users don't need and I don't see you speaking against console time taking over dev time. The status quo about this horrible UI that many many many players have stated "sucks" is one of the many reasons this game was and to this day is a failure. Successful games that say "we rather close before loosing the sub model" don't go B2P.
If you really like this game, you should want for it to get a better UI, it would bring more people to it.
As for me usually being better, I'm just tired of more of the same from the same selfish group of people. We have had these discussions in numerous other threads and in all of them these same people come, give out their selfish reasons and loose the argument against the majority and it pains me to have to write the same things over and over again when i know allready that it won't change their selfish minds.0 -
Mr.Hmm✭✭✭✭How they would play ESO on consoles whitout addons?
Simple, ZoS is gonna give the consoles the UI we at PC wanted but wont have due to the fact that we can download and install addons.If I die tomorrow I do not want to think of the game I could of played today, therefor I will play whatever I want today while securing a future to play in as well.
A true gamer will think of all the possible outcomes and execute the one that is the hardest to accomplish.3 -
Hawk269✭✭✭Well, I have been playing since beta, been playing since launch and I don't use any Add on's at all. It is not that I don't want too, I just have not felt the need too. I have played a few MMO's in the past, but not for as long as I have played ESO and I have not felt the need for them. However, I know that there are some people that do use them and could not live without them.
No one is wrong, weather you use add on's or don't use them. The base game is playable and functional without them, but to those that do use them it does add a bit of "convenience" that they may be use too from other MMO's.
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snowmanflvb14_ESO✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Press Q and tell me that set up is for a PC and not a thumbstick.
Name one mmo that has the exact same basic commands as the console controller can handle even though it's being played on a keyboard.
And yes you are right saying they said each would have its own ui, but why is it so hard now to implement a proper PC ui.
GW2, Neverwinter to name twoMagic is impressive but now Minsc leads SWORDS FOR EVERYONE!!0