ESO on consoles without Add-Ons
KontrolledKhaos
✭✭✭
Not because I reckon consoles are inferior or anything (even though they are 
), but because console players won't have any addons to use at all. Seriously, without addons this game is so much more of a hassle to play. I've got roughly 20 addons running right and I couldnt possibly imagine playing without them as theyre that crucial to me being able to enjoy the game.
Seriously, how are console players going to be able to play endgame dungeons effectively without any addons? The base game is lacking in so much basic information that it wouldnt be worth the trouble.
Edited, LenaicR: Thread's title edited.
Edited by ZOS_LenaicR on March 12, 2015 1:24PM ), but because console players won't have any addons to use at all. Seriously, without addons this game is so much more of a hassle to play. I've got roughly 20 addons running right and I couldnt possibly imagine playing without them as theyre that crucial to me being able to enjoy the game.Seriously, how are console players going to be able to play endgame dungeons effectively without any addons? The base game is lacking in so much basic information that it wouldnt be worth the trouble.
Edited, LenaicR: Thread's title edited.
13
-
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't feel sorry for them... because they get improved UI, open in-game voice chat and...
Vita Remote Play
and in a year... MORPHEUS!!!
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!5 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭Improved ui?
Wtf am I playing a game on a PC with a console ui after they said it was because of the console not being able to do everything....but they get a different improved version? . . Give us a proper PC ui then. They make keyboards for consoles you know.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on BASHING AND SLANDEROUS COMMENTS]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on March 12, 2015 1:32PM13 -
Curragraigue✭✭✭✭✭
✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Improved ui?
Wtf am I playing a game on a PC with a crap console ui after they said it was because of the console not being able to do everything....but they get a different improved version? . . Give us a proper PC ui then. They make keyboards for consoles you know.
They have never said that the PC UI was designed the way it was because of console. They have always said that is was designed as intended.
I've been playing since beta with no addons without any problems, I doubt it will be an issue. Addons provide convenience for people that want something specific there is nothing in them that is essential to do any of the content.PUG Life - the true test of your skill
18 characters, 17 max level, at least 1 Stam and 1 Mag of every class, 1 of every race and 1200+ CP
Tanked to Undaunted 9+ Mag and Stam of every class using Group Finder for 90+% of the Vet Dungeon runs17 -
Mr.Hmm✭✭✭✭^ what the above has said.If I die tomorrow I do not want to think of the game I could of played today, therefor I will play whatever I want today while securing a future to play in as well.
A true gamer will think of all the possible outcomes and execute the one that is the hardest to accomplish.2 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭Press Q and tell me that set up is for a PC and not a thumbstick.
Name one mmo that has the exact same basic commands as the console controller can handle even though it's being played on a keyboard.
And yes you are right saying they said each would have its own ui, but why is it so hard now to implement a proper PC ui.13 -
Troneon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Improved ui?
Wtf am I playing a game on a PC with a crap console ui after they said it was because of the console not being able to do everything....but they get a different improved version? . . Give us a proper PC ui then. They make keyboards for consoles you know.
Exactly lolPC EU ADMaster Crafter - Anything you need!!High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/TankTrials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything4 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭Curragraigue wrote: »
They have never said that the PC UI was designed the way it was because of console. They have always said that is was designed as intended.
I've been playing since beta with no addons without any problems, I doubt it will be an issue. Addons provide convenience for people that want something specific there is nothing in them that is essential to do any of the content.
Yeah, ESO has been designed as intented but failed hard. You see what's the issue?
Designed as intented means nothing. Some minimalists may like it but for an MMORPG the current UI options are laughable and a shame.
Most of the used addons don't give you convenience, they try to give you an overview about your character. The character sheet is missing stats that can only be shown with addons - now that's not convenience, that's standard.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on BASHING AND SLANDEROUS COMMENTS]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on March 12, 2015 1:28PM4 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The character sheet is missing stats that can only be shown with addons - now that's not convenience, that's standard.
It is convenience. If you want those figures you can get them through the use of an add-on.
For those who have no interest in those values whatsoever, or are happy with their presence not being trumpeted from the towers, their lack is a refreshing change.
Other MMO UIs that include all figures in the base UI made me feel like I was stuck doing analysis of the least interesting data set ever conceived. I am pleased, nay, I am overjoyed that they aren't there to blight my visual landscape unless I feel I actually need them.6 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭
It is convenience. If you want those figures you can get them through the use of an add-on.
For those who have no interest in those values whatsoever, or are happy with their presence not being trumpeted from the towers, their lack is a refreshing change.
Other MMO UIs that include all figures in the base UI made me feel like I was stuck doing analysis of the least interesting data set ever conceived. I am pleased, nay, I am overjoyed that they aren't there to blight my visual landscape unless I feel I actually need them.
No, their lack is not a refreshing change, it's plain dumb.
You can't see your resistances. You can't see your reduced Magicka cost. You can't see spell penetration. All of that is simply missing although you can get those stats. And there are more than just these examples.
Just because the values aren't there doesn't mean you don't have to do analysis. If you don't do it, you limit yourself but that seems to be okay in ESO because the values are missing from the character sheet... sorry, there's no logic in that.
There should be at least an OPTION for showing all those things. That's the issue. If you want to limit and hamper yourself: okay! But that doesn't apply to everybody.Edited by Seraphyel on March 12, 2015 7:38AM11 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There should be at least an OPTION for showing all those things. That's the issue. If you want to limit and hamper yourself: okay! But that doesn't apply to everybody.
There is an option. You mentioned it yourself. It is called "using an add-on".
This isn't about limiting yourself, this is about expanding your available information if you choose to. Look at it from the other direction. Who knows, you might find the view pleasing.6 -
Curragraigue✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah, ESO has been designed as intented but failed hard. You see what's the issue?
Designed as intented means nothing. PC UI in ESO is crap. Some minimalists may like it but for an MMORPG the current UI options are laughable and a shame.
Most of the used addons don't give you convenience, they try to give you an overview about your character. The character sheet is missing stats that can only be shown with addons - now that's not convenience, that's standard.
I can see that you don't like the current UI which is a different issue to the one I responded to. I'm tired of people blaming the design of the UI on some console conspiracy. Fact is the developers designed the UI the way it is because that was what they wanted it to look like. If you don't like it say you don't like it and why just don't make up non-existant conspiracies. For the record I like the clean lines UI that has been designed.PUG Life - the true test of your skill
18 characters, 17 max level, at least 1 Stam and 1 Mag of every class, 1 of every race and 1200+ CP
Tanked to Undaunted 9+ Mag and Stam of every class using Group Finder for 90+% of the Vet Dungeon runs2 -
Tonnopesce✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't feel sorry for them... because they get improved UI, open in-game voice chat and...
Vita Remote Play
and in a year... MORPHEUS!!!
Meh we have already all of that
* on the shield you can connect mouse+ keyboard if you want....
MY photoshop skills are akward.......
and Btw we have even the oculus so no big point here
Edited by Tonnopesce on March 12, 2015 8:31AMSignature3 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I'm sorry, but no. You keep talking about combat interface, but this is not the only aspect that needs improvement. Bag sorting needs more categories (as it happens, Advanced Filters won the essential mods poll). Guild store is laughable and needs a word search to be usable at all. Potion quickwheel is horrible. No inventory grid view, no way to track your research without using a crafting station, guild bank that doesn't stack items, guild store sale mails that don't tell you what you sold.
It is convenience. If you want those figures you can get them through the use of an add-on.
For those who have no interest in those values whatsoever, or are happy with their presence not being trumpeted from the towers, their lack is a refreshing change.
Other MMO UIs that include all figures in the base UI made me feel like I was stuck doing analysis of the least interesting data set ever conceived. I am pleased, nay, I am overjoyed that they aren't there to blight my visual landscape unless I feel I actually need them.
None of these things would interfere with your refreshing, minimalistic interface. They would just make playing the game less of a PITA.Edited by Rosveen on March 12, 2015 10:04AM4 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm sorry, but no. You keep talking about combat interface, but this is not the only aspect that needs improvement. Bag sorting needs more categories (as it happens, Advanced Filters won the essential mods poll). Guild store is laughable and needs a word search to be usable at all. Potion quickwheel is horrible. No inventory grid view, no way to track your research without using a crafting station, guild bank that doesn't stack items, guild store sale mails that don't tell you what you sold.
None of these things would interfere with your refreshing, minimalistic interface. They would just make playing the game less of a PITA.
That is why I was referring directly to the combat interface. I agree that many of the things you mentioned need improvement. In fact some of those features could even be managed without impacting on the existing UI to a significant degree.
So why are you saying "no" to my post when I intentionally limited my disagreement to the accounting ledger that @Seraphyel seems to desire? As opposed to the changes that you, and I, agree are required... erm...Edited by Iluvrien on March 12, 2015 11:22AM0 -
Digiman✭✭✭✭✭Don't feel sorry for them... because they get improved UI, open in-game voice chat and...
Vita Remote Play
and in a year... MORPHEUS!!!
This is basically true. Consoles know they can't hold a candle to PC so the best they can do is add in features like these to entice players to use it.2 -
Kragorn✭✭✭✭✭
I play this game just fine without add-ons, but even if I used one or two, 20 is just an insane and patently silly number to 'need'.KontrolledKhaos wrote: »Not because I reckon consoles are inferior or anything (even though they are), but because console players won't have any addons to use at all. Seriously, without addons this game is so much more of a hassle to play. I've got roughly 20 addons running right and I couldnt possibly imagine playing without them as theyre that crucial to me being able to enjoy the game.
Seriously, how are console players going to be able to play endgame dungeons effectively without any addons? The base game is lacking in so much basic information that it wouldnt be worth the trouble.
2 -
StaticWax✭✭✭✭I play pc & will play console as well.
This game will be better played on a console, imo.
Oh... I also have the Nvidia Shield. And it kinda sucks. Just saying...I wish nothing but joy for everyone.0 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭Curragraigue wrote: »
I can see that you don't like the current UI which is a different issue to the one I responded to. I'm tired of people blaming the design of the UI on some console conspiracy. Fact is the developers designed the UI the way it is because that was what they wanted it to look like. If you don't like it say you don't like it and why just don't make up non-existant conspiracies. For the record I like the clean lines UI that has been designed.
To be honest they redesigned the UI in beta because of some addon naysayers. The UI has been better but they changed it for the worse end of 2013.
And the console version IS a reason for the minimalistic (=awful) UI. Not the only reason, but the 5+1 skill system is something we have because of limited console controls, same thing goes for some of the UI parts.
I don't want anybody to be forced to use UI elements they don't want to use but I want Zenimax to add them for an optional use - at least.I play this game just fine without add-ons, but even if I used one or two, 20 is just an insane and patently silly number to 'need'.
Sacrificing overview and knowledge about your character shouldn't be rated as "fine". But it's up to every player.Edited by Seraphyel on March 12, 2015 12:12PM1 -
All this PC elitism is giving me a headache, all the kids who take part in such nonsense are not gamers. Everyone has preferences and there is no wrong choice.
That aside, nobody NEEDS any addon to play any MMO effectively. Or any game at all. Sure they can be helpful but so far every MMO i have played has never made me feel that modifications to UI and additional display of character and combat information is required for either progressive or end game content. Your damage is easy enough to determine from how fast an enemy health bar depletes and healing by whether or not you can keep people alive during fights.
The game will be fine on consoles, just as much as it has been on PC. Saying it will be terrible without giving it a chance? I pity you for making such accusations as well as that addon requirement you think is so important.4 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭Curragraigue wrote: »I've been playing since beta with no addons without any problems, I doubt it will be an issue. Addons provide convenience for people that want something specific there is nothing in them that is essential to do any of the content.
Every time I see someone say this, I die a little inside.
Addons may not technically be "essential" to gameplay, but that's not a very good argument.
It's not "essential" to own a microwave, an oven, a stove, or a toaster, as long as you have somewhere you can build a fire. None of those appliances are "essential" to have. But that doesn't mean cooking food is going to be nearly as convenient.
For those of you without addons, enjoy using your fire pit for everything.
14 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most of the addon features should be standard in game with the ability to disable them for the minimalists, not the other way around.Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]9 -
Seraphyel✭✭✭✭✭That aside, nobody NEEDS any addon to play any MMO effectively. Or any game at all. Sure they can be helpful but so far every MMO i have played has never made me feel that modifications to UI and additional display of character and combat information is required for either progressive or end game content.
ESO has by far the worst UI for any MMORPG out there. Every other MMORPG I know has many options when it comes to Interface customization.
I played nearly every other MMORPG without addons but with ESO it's different because it's lacking basics.5 -
What basics exactly are missing for you? We have all the resource and regenration values, armor and spell resistance, weapon and spell damage and crit values are there. Individual resistances can be calculated by looking at any enchants and passive effects and working them out (not all that difficult really, basic math skills required).
All values are found beyond the character sheet and nobody should need an addon to show absolutely everything when, at least from my PoV, we already have what we need to know about our characters.2 -
Jahosefat✭✭✭✭I've got a feeling the "minimalist" UI direction was embraced to minimize the work load. They could have offered many built-in features that were defaulted as off so as not to disturb immersion but instead have relied on third party add-on creators to fill this gap. And then in PVP latency issues have at least in part been blamed on add-ons and they have asked people to turn add-ons off in PVP. If they incorporated a few of the most popular add-ons as built-in optional UI features and refined the back end they wouldn't have nearly as many people running 20+ add ons with full lua memory in cyrodiil.
The "overly-minimalist" UI has been continually brought up since beta, and a whole lot of people have not been satisfied with it. Some people use add-ons to make up for it but then are told the add-ons may be what is creating latency issues in cyrodiil. And their focus has been improving performance in cyrodiil this whole time? If you really think it is the add-ons then go ahead and finally update your UI. Something like "foundry tactical combat" and "kill counter" would be a good place to start. Just make it built in and optional, so it looks the same when you start the game but you can modify the UI with built in systems if you would like.Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one2 -
Kragorn✭✭✭✭✭
The best MMO I know of for UI is Rift, closely followed by FFXIV in terms of configurability and I don't use add-ons for either. In WOW I use Titan for convenience, obviously I no longer need a threat metre.
ESO has by far the worst UI for any MMORPG out there. Every other MMORPG I know has many options when it comes to Interface customization.
I played nearly every other MMORPG without addons but with ESO it's different because it's lacking basics.
I have no problem using add-ons if I think they add CONVENIENCE but I'm not about to use them as a crutch to shore-up a pitiful UI such as ESO.
Yes, you read that right!
Why?
Because I'm not about to base my entire playstyle on a tool written by a third-party who, at their whim, will abandon it and leave it to wither, meaning the next update I apply from the game's developer will likely break it, and with it my playstyle.
I'd LOVE a real MMORPG PC UI for this game but only if it's provided by the developer and so I can rely on its continued existence.
THAT@s why I don't use add-ons.
Where in the standard UI do I get to see the debuffs I have and their duration? Where in the standard UI do I see the damage I'm doing or being done to me? Where in the standard UI do I see how threat is? Where in the standard UI do I, as a healer, get to see ALL players health/buffs/debuffs?ginger_josh.1b16_ESO wrote: »What basics exactly are missing for you? We have all the resource and regenration values, armor and spell resistance, weapon and spell damage and crit values are there. Individual resistances can be calculated by looking at any enchants and passive effects and working them out (not all that difficult really, basic math skills required).
All values are found beyond the character sheet and nobody should need an addon to show absolutely everything when, at least from my PoV, we already have what we need to know about our characters.
The UI is this game is dreadful, it's actually worse than in Morrowind, at least in that game you could instantly see what debuffs you had!
However, I have to live with this pitiful state of affairs because of what I said above.Edited by Kragorn on March 12, 2015 1:45PM0 -
Curragraigue✭✭✭✭✭
✭
To be honest they redesigned the UI in beta because of some addon naysayers. The UI has been better but they changed it for the worse end of 2013.
And the console version IS a reason for the minimalistic (=awful) UI. Not the only reason, but the 5+1 skill system is something we have because of limited console controls, same thing goes for some of the UI parts.
I don't want anybody to be forced to use UI elements they don't want to use but I want Zenimax to add them for an optional use - at least.
Sacrificing overview and knowledge about your character shouldn't be rated as "fine". But it's up to every player.
The highlighted quoted paragraph was why I originally responded because it keeps getting put up whenever anyone wants to complain about the current PC UI. Check the history of the development of the game and the comments from ZOS. The UI and the combat mechanic of 5+1 x2 was what you were going to get before ZOS decided that it would also release on console. The original development of the game was for PC only so the combat limitations have nothing to do with console. Have a look at previous ES games the stream lined look and limited skills has been the direction the games have been going.
As far as a change to PC UI to add options to allow people to toggle more information from the UI sounds like a good idea to me for the people that want it.Edited by Curragraigue on March 12, 2015 2:33PMPUG Life - the true test of your skill
18 characters, 17 max level, at least 1 Stam and 1 Mag of every class, 1 of every race and 1200+ CP
Tanked to Undaunted 9+ Mag and Stam of every class using Group Finder for 90+% of the Vet Dungeon runs0 -
asteldian✭✭✭✭I play this game just fine without add-ons, but even if I used one or two, 20 is just an insane and patently silly number to 'need'.
It is a silly number to 'need' that is the point. 20 is roughly the standard number of add ons a non mmoer uses in order to make up for the lacklustre interface. None of those add ons have any impact on the minimilist UI, they are all behind the scenes menu improvements.
I myself run 32 currently, and freely admit 10 of them are designed for the mmoer rather than quality of life improvements.
In Rift I had 1. In previous games, 1, maybe 2.
Sure, you can get by without all the add-ons and blissful ignorance will allow you to be happy (assuming you have not played other games so have no idea how a UI can be when done properly) but if you try any of the non intrusive add-ons you will quickly wonder how you could have been content without them0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Curragraigue wrote: »
They have never said that the PC UI was designed the way it was because of console. They have always said that is was designed as intended.
I've been playing since beta with no addons without any problems, I doubt it will be an issue. Addons provide convenience for people that want something specific there is nothing in them that is essential to do any of the content.
Dude. Advanced filters. Seriously.What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ginger_josh.1b16_ESO wrote: »What basics exactly are missing for you? We have all the resource and regenration values, armor and spell resistance, weapon and spell damage and crit values are there. Individual resistances can be calculated by looking at any enchants and passive effects and working them out (not all that difficult really, basic math skills required).
All values are found beyond the character sheet and nobody should need an addon to show absolutely everything when, at least from my PoV, we already have what we need to know about our characters.
What about:
- The character sheet doesn't have all the information about your character, you don't know what active Buff & Debuff have been applied by team mates or enemies.
- You don't know what active buffs and debuffs affect a target.
- You don't know for how much your attack is hitting which might seem uninteresting or unnecessary to you but it's actually what allowed people like @Attorneyatlawl to find major bugs in the combat system that Zenimax later fixed and is also a feature many people, especially MMO players like to have.
- The Chat window is a joke.
- The UI elements can't even be moved around.
- The HP/MN/STM bars dont show numbers, you have to estimate how much you have.
- Raid window is too big/ugly/can't be moved.
- Q wheel to select potions is the worst, especially when during combat.
- No changing gear on the fly.
- No DPS meter (so gl doing any competitive gaming effectively).
- Sucky inventory management.
- Sucky sales management (and by sucky, I mean inexistent).
And the list goes on... on and on...Edited by TehMagnus on March 12, 2015 2:05PM8 -
@Kragon,
Any such effects you need to be aware of as either healer looking out for vital effects or any other role manages such buffs, can be seen visually on the character. Tiny boxes next to healths bars Vs a massive glow around a weapon or surrounding a character? Ill take the glows any day. Healing in pvp you can tell when you need to dispell fire siege weapon DoT's because PEOPLE WILL BE ON FIRE.
I'm just going to assume people are used to having all the information handed to them so easily like in a WoW raid where you just stare at small boxes boxes through entire fights. For me the group content in ESO is much more engaging because im actually able to watch and even take part in the combat during my supportive roles.
As for threat? i can trust a tank to use a taunt ability on more important enemies. It's really only dps getting hit by avoidable attacks which is a problem for me but that exists in any MMO.
And actually damage done values are really not needed. Over the years people have just gotten to a point where they THINK an overall damage / healing done / taken per second is vital, but we just do not need such things. Bottom line is, habbits from other MMO's have ruined other peoples experience with ESO because they dont get all the spoonfeeding they are used to.
Again, all the info is there but just in a different form of what people are used to seeing. If an addon is required to reveal it, then this may not be the best game for those people to be playing or maybe they just need some time to adapt.3