ESO Character Offspring: Hybrid Races Concept

Gidorick

LMar wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

All races except Argonians/Hist came from the Ehlnofey so in theory could reproduce. The Hist came from their own world in a plane of Oblivion that got destroyed in the war between the Ehlnofey and parts of that world ended up as Black Marsh in Tamriel with the remaining Hist on them. Then the Hist created the Argonians.

Even now there are some relatives of the Hist in Oblivion. E.g.

in the Infernal City novels there are some trees that resemble the Hist in Clavicus Vile's realm and they were the ones that got summoned/helped in bringing Umbriel into Nirn. In fact these trees had help from a rogue Hist that helped the city come into Nirn

Oh I agree that argonians couldn't reproduce with current lore.... but they couldn't let all races BUT argonian interbreed. Concessions would have to be made and there could be some wobbly reason added for the half breed like...

Maybe the argonian half breed wasn't a result of interbreeding but was a result of inter-rearing

Argonian mother-Other race father: the father mixed his blood with the hist sap that the baby argonian consumed on naming day. The progeny looks argonian but has traits of another race.

Argonian father-other race mother: The mother ingested Hist sap while she was pregnant with child. The progeny looks like the mother but has argonian traits.

The mother/father combination would solely be to keep it in line with the other races phylogenetic mechanics.

Hist sap is so crazy that that might work. After all it can create new things..

I would love to know what the loremasters would have to say about the consumption of Hist-Sap by a pregnant non-Argonian.

LMar

Gidorick wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

All races except Argonians/Hist came from the Ehlnofey so in theory could reproduce. The Hist came from their own world in a plane of Oblivion that got destroyed in the war between the Ehlnofey and parts of that world ended up as Black Marsh in Tamriel with the remaining Hist on them. Then the Hist created the Argonians.

Even now there are some relatives of the Hist in Oblivion. E.g.

in the Infernal City novels there are some trees that resemble the Hist in Clavicus Vile's realm and they were the ones that got summoned/helped in bringing Umbriel into Nirn. In fact these trees had help from a rogue Hist that helped the city come into Nirn

Oh I agree that argonians couldn't reproduce with current lore.... but they couldn't let all races BUT argonian interbreed. Concessions would have to be made and there could be some wobbly reason added for the half breed like...

Maybe the argonian half breed wasn't a result of interbreeding but was a result of inter-rearing

Argonian mother-Other race father: the father mixed his blood with the hist sap that the baby argonian consumed on naming day. The progeny looks argonian but has traits of another race.

Argonian father-other race mother: The mother ingested Hist sap while she was pregnant with child. The progeny looks like the mother but has argonian traits.

The mother/father combination would solely be to keep it in line with the other races phylogenetic mechanics.

Hist sap is so crazy that that might work. After all it can create new things..

I would love to know what the loremasters would have to say about the consumption of Hist-Sap by a pregnant non-Argonian.

It depends what they want to do. Lore is there to help the game and not the other way round (of course there should be some caution...). On one hand it might do nothing or just create some hallucinogenic effects (e.g. see Blackwood quests in Oblivion), cause aggression, cause problems with the baby, or if they want to go somewhere with it it might cause physical changes to the baby or confer some traits. Also it doesn't actually need to do something argonian-y or lizardy to the baby but rather just be affected in ways that the Hist want and desire

Gidorick

LMar wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

All races except Argonians/Hist came from the Ehlnofey so in theory could reproduce. The Hist came from their own world in a plane of Oblivion that got destroyed in the war between the Ehlnofey and parts of that world ended up as Black Marsh in Tamriel with the remaining Hist on them. Then the Hist created the Argonians.

Even now there are some relatives of the Hist in Oblivion. E.g.

in the Infernal City novels there are some trees that resemble the Hist in Clavicus Vile's realm and they were the ones that got summoned/helped in bringing Umbriel into Nirn. In fact these trees had help from a rogue Hist that helped the city come into Nirn

Oh I agree that argonians couldn't reproduce with current lore.... but they couldn't let all races BUT argonian interbreed. Concessions would have to be made and there could be some wobbly reason added for the half breed like...

Maybe the argonian half breed wasn't a result of interbreeding but was a result of inter-rearing

Argonian mother-Other race father: the father mixed his blood with the hist sap that the baby argonian consumed on naming day. The progeny looks argonian but has traits of another race.

Argonian father-other race mother: The mother ingested Hist sap while she was pregnant with child. The progeny looks like the mother but has argonian traits.

The mother/father combination would solely be to keep it in line with the other races phylogenetic mechanics.

Hist sap is so crazy that that might work. After all it can create new things..

I would love to know what the loremasters would have to say about the consumption of Hist-Sap by a pregnant non-Argonian.

It depends what they want to do. Lore is there to help the game and not the other way round (of course there should be some caution...). On one hand it might do nothing or just create some hallucinogenic effects (e.g. see Blackwood quests in Oblivion), cause aggression, cause problems with the baby, or if they want to go somewhere with it it might cause physical changes to the baby or confer some traits. Also it doesn't actually need to do something argonian-y or lizardy to the baby but rather just be affected in ways that the Hist want and desire

In THAT case. Let the interbreeding begin! I totally want this concept. I don't see any negatives to allowing this.

Gidorick

Made a Khajiit/Argonian mix for another thread... Figured I should add it to this one.

lathbury

Hate to be a party pooper but no for a couple of reasons balance being one ppl would cherry pick. The best combination and it would be very powerful altmer breton anyone. But mainly because of this it would homogenise builds further and make your racial choice less meaningful. maybe if it were balanced in a way such as getting a weaker version of the selected traits. I'd be for it as it would mean making a meaningful decision and lore wise would explain the altmers obsession with not diluting thier aldmer blood. So you could have your altmer breton mix and have a cost reduction and a power bonus but weaker than the pure bonus of the respective races.

Gidorick

My original concept @lathbury, didn't have the traits mixing. It was just purely a character that looks like one race with the traits of another race. So, a Mother Breton with Argonian Mother would be a Breton that can swim really fast.

Changed it up for kicks and grins.

Your idea of the offspring's skills being a bit weaker than the parent's skills is interesting, but I don't think it could be by too much else players would have a pretty strong reason to not create an offspring character. Also, players who make offspring characters have already leveld 2 characters to level 50. I kind of feel like they have earned the right to make a better build.

I DO agree that players shouldn't be allowed to choose the same skill twice. So if they make a Breton Altmer, they can only have one Gift of Magnus skill. They might have to be some additional balancing for the system to make it viable. I agree there could be some abuse without it.

And racism has never needed justification. Especially between the races of Nirn.

lathbury

I think if the skills were diluted a mix build would still be cool and viable i probably still would as I get damage and cost reduction on the same toon altmer/breton. or stamina regen and stamina back bosmer/redguard or uber elemental damage altmer/dunmer. so while individually weaker than there pure counter parts together like that would still be powerful.
although to get it right you would need a maths wiz like @Attorneyatlawl to balance the reduction.

Gidorick

I've been considering the possible benefits of marriage and this concept came to mind.

I added the following to the original post;

Gidorick wrote:

I could also see allowing married couples to each have the ability to create one offspring from their union. This would mean that ZOS would make crowns off of both the ring of Mara + 2 Progeny slots! To prevent abuse of this, ZOS could institute a way to "level" a marriage and require couples to be certain level before they can produce children... But that's a concept all its own for another day.

Gidorick

@Artjuh90, Check out the Khajiit and Argonian hybrids in the OP.

Darkeus

dunperial ftw!

Gidorick

Darkeus wrote: »

dunperial ftw!

Like this @Darkeus ?

ProfessorKittyhawk

I've joked with my mara (an Argonian) about having kitten lizard children. We're both males but I had an idea for an rp event where I would conduct a dark ritual using some of our DNA to create these abominations.

This topic makes me want this so bad.

Gidorick

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I've joked with my mara (an Argonian) about having kitten lizard children. We're both males but I had an idea for an rp event where I would conduct a dark ritual using some of our DNA to create these abominations.

This topic makes me want this so bad.

That is the ONE caveat to this whole idea about an "offspring"... I think it should require one male and one female. Not because of some idea of "what's normal" or anything, just to adhear to biology. Now... you COULD have one of you gender change once the barbershop opens.

Of course, if ZOS just allowed for inter-species characters to be created and didn't require the two "parents" so that the characters wouldn't be "offspring" per say , I wouldn't be upset about that.

I love the idea of a Argonjiit or would it be a Khajonian?

Gidorick wrote: »

ProfessorKittyhawk

I wasn't saying same sex reproduction should be a thing. I could make a female argonian and do this and voila, Lizard cat babies. And he vice versa, cat lizard babies!

I even made up a prophecy about one of our children being an albino and would be "the chosen one" to lead our people to a new tomorrow... of chaos and devastation. You know, because of the dark ritual thing.

Gidorick

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I wasn't saying same sex reproduction should be a thing. I could make a female argonian and do this and voila, Lizard cat babies. And he vice versa, cat lizard babies!

I even made up a prophecy about one of our children being an albino and would be "the chosen one" to lead our people to a new tomorrow... of chaos and devastation. You know, because of the dark ritual thing.

heh. Love it!

SirDopey

This actually makes perfect sense and is about the only concept I've seen that I'd give my approval to for the picking and choosing of racial abilities. Well done old chap....

Gidorick

SirDopey wrote: »

This actually makes perfect sense and is about the only concept I've seen that I'd give my approval to for the picking and choosing of racial abilities. Well done old chap....

Why thank you @SirDopey ! My concept originally didn't include racial ability picking and choosing because of balancing concerns, but I think the mix and match nature of these characters would be THE reason most players would want to have one of these characters.

A Khajiit with fins and a swimming bonus? YES PLEASE!

ArchMikem

Gidorick wrote: »

I love the idea of a Argonjiit or would it be a Khajonian?

Gidorick wrote: »

My inner Realist is on the cusp of screaming. lol Don't worry I have dropped much of my love of Realism out the door when getting into Elder Scrolls but when it comes to sexual reproduction, you can't just put A and B in a room and expect a C. At best you can put an A and A+ in a room and get an A-.

DNA compatibility is important for life to conceive. Argonians (Reptiles) and Khajiit (Mammals) are very different biologically. A Khajiit would have a better chance conceiving a child from a Man or Mer since they are all Mammals, however even then the DNA just wouldn't be there enough for a successful conception. Read spoiler for an example. Warning though, might be uncomforting to many.

A lot of people would find this uncomfortable but it's a legit example. Take a Bestiality coupling. A Human Female and a Canine Male. Since both are Mammals intercourse is possible, however successful reproduction is impossible. Because our DNA differs, the Woman would at best be "Impregnated" for an instant before the DNA is found to be incompatible and simply breaks apart and fails.

That all said, I'm not going to argue if the Lore Masters actually put in examples of cross-race births. It's their Universe not mine. I just like to contribute my knowledge to make myself feel better. I'm not denouncing the allure of a Hybrid. If I could get a Nord and a Kitty to have bahbies then saweeeeet.

Cously

I love the concept! Can you imagine the min/max guys marrying each other and having their min/max leet offspring??? Priceless.

Gargath

To be honest I dislike an idea of showing results of mixing races as in-game offspring, I prefer to keep imagining how the offspring could look like, than to physically see them in game.

Already had an issue with the quest Nature's Best Friend from Malabal Tor; a male Khajiit Feluz is a husband of Breton female Liane, it's so cute she likes to dominate him and takes away his pouch of moon sugar candy .

Gidorick

Cously wrote: »

I love the concept! Can you imagine the min/max guys marrying each other and having their min/max leet offspring??? Priceless.

lol @Cously , that desire to find the best mix was one of the inspirations for this concept. Of course, if players could keep mixing and matching their offspring we would eventually end up with each skill being from a different race. To prevent this, I suggested that offspring be infertile.

Cously

Gidorick wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

I love the concept! Can you imagine the min/max guys marrying each other and having their min/max leet offspring??? Priceless.

lol @Cously , that desire to find the best mix was one of the inspirations for this concept. Of course, if players could keep mixing and matching their offspring we would eventually end up with each skill being from a different race. To prevent this, I suggested that offspring be infertile.

Ahh yes, I didn't write the comment as a criticize to your idea, I'm just really imagining the top 1 leaderboards of PVE and PVP dudes marrying each other and levelling up wedding skills in order to create the race of their dreams.

Gidorick

Cously wrote: »

Ahh yes, I didn't write the comment as a criticize to your idea, I'm just really imagining the top 1 leaderboards of PVE and PVP dudes marrying each other and levelling up wedding skills in order to create the race of their dreams.

hehe.. yea. me too. @Cously ! I didn't take your comment as a criticism. There are many weird player practices that would happen if this concept ever saw the light of day. Players would create a male or female vestige (what I'm calling characters/toons now) JUST to have them parent an offspring. It would be kind of epic.

Mostly though, it would encourage the creation of alternate vestiges, which is something that could only help in the long run!

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Sorry to rain on your parade but Argonians come from eggs, the other 9 races do not come from eggs.

Gidorick

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry to rain on your parade but Argonians come from eggs, the other 9 races do not come from eggs.

Oh... I know where they come from @TX12001rwb17_ESO . I even explained my vision of how an argonian mixed race could be explained. Here:

Gidorick wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

All races except Argonians/Hist came from the Ehlnofey so in theory could reproduce. The Hist came from their own world in a plane of Oblivion that got destroyed in the war between the Ehlnofey and parts of that world ended up as Black Marsh in Tamriel with the remaining Hist on them. Then the Hist created the Argonians.

Even now there are some relatives of the Hist in Oblivion. E.g.

in the Infernal City novels there are some trees that resemble the Hist in Clavicus Vile's realm and they were the ones that got summoned/helped in bringing Umbriel into Nirn. In fact these trees had help from a rogue Hist that helped the city come into Nirn

Oh I agree that argonians couldn't reproduce with current lore.... but they couldn't let all races BUT argonian interbreed. Concessions would have to be made and there could be some wobbly reason added for the half breed like...

Maybe the argonian half breed wasn't a result of interbreeding but was a result of inter-rearing

Argonian mother-Other race father: the father mixed his blood with the hist sap that the baby argonian consumed on naming day. The progeny looks argonian but has traits of another race.

Argonian father-other race mother: The mother ingested Hist sap while she was pregnant with child. The progeny looks like the mother but has argonian traits.

The mother/father combination would solely be to keep it in line with the other races phylogenetic mechanics.

The Hist are very mysterious and we don't know what weird effects the sap might have in various situations.

Gidorick

ArchMikem wrote: »

My inner Realist is on the cusp of screaming. lol Don't worry I have dropped much of my love of Realism out the door when getting into Elder Scrolls but when it comes to sexual reproduction, you can't just put A and B in a room and expect a C. At best you can put an A and A+ in a room and get an A-.

DNA compatibility is important for life to conceive. Argonians (Reptiles) and Khajiit (Mammals) are very different biologically. A Khajiit would have a better chance conceiving a child from a Man or Mer since they are all Mammals, however even then the DNA just wouldn't be there enough for a successful conception. Read spoiler for an example. Warning though, might be uncomforting to many.

A lot of people would find this uncomfortable but it's a legit example. Take a Bestiality coupling. A Human Female and a Canine Male. Since both are Mammals intercourse is possible, however successful reproduction is impossible. Because our DNA differs, the Woman would at best be "Impregnated" for an instant before the DNA is found to be incompatible and simply breaks apart and fails.

That all said, I'm not going to argue if the Lore Masters actually put in examples of cross-race births. It's their Universe not mine. I just like to contribute my knowledge to make myself feel better. I'm not denouncing the allure of a Hybrid. If I could get a Nord and a Kitty to have bahbies then saweeeeet.

Khajiit as said to be an offshoot of the Mer @ArchMikem , and if you are accepting that their physiological makeup is malleable enough so that their furstock can be determined by the phases of the moon, I don't think it would be too much of a leap to believe there could be interbreeding. Heck, they could even add that only during a certain phase of the moon can a Khajiit successfully produce a child with another species.

"When Jone and Jode avert their gaze and their attention lies not on Elsweyr a Khajiit may lie with Man, Mer, or Beast and that union may create a child. The Lunar Lattice will forsake the child and they will be seen as an abomination throughout the lands of Tamriel. The half-khajiit will be barren and will not be blessed with a child of their own."

Remember, genetics don't work in Nirn like they do in our world. A Redguard woman who has a child with a Breton will not have a mulatto child. That child would look like a Redguard.

Or, at least that is how it is seen with the limited scientific viewpoint of the Council of Healers.

I do like that your suspension of disbelief with Elder Scrolls is strong enough to accept cat people, lizard people, Daedric princes, and absent gods but the disbelief becomes too much when considering the mixing of lizard people and cat people.

Remember, the Council of Healers said:

The Council of Healers wrote:

It is less clear whether the Argonians and Khajiit are interfertile with both humans and elves. Though there have been many reports throughout the Eras of children from these unions, as well as stories of unions with daedra, there have been no well documented offspring.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/notes-racial-phylogeny-and-biology

If there was ever going to be an Elder Scrolls game to explore this concept, it's ESO. "Throughout the ages"? We are in those ages! Also, the historical accounts from this time in the future of Tamriel is sketchy at best.

I say... let us eat cake. So to speak

ArchMikem

Gidorick wrote: »

I do like that your suspension of disbelief with Elder Scrolls is strong enough to accept cat people, lizard people, Daedric princes, and absent gods but the disbelief becomes too much when considering the mixing of lizard people and cat people.

I know, it's great isn't it? Honestly though it's not THAT difficult to imagine the possibility of bipedal sentient Humanoid animals. Evolution can always take weird turns. Then again this is Elder Scrolls. Evolution doesn't exist. But in the real world? Give Lions increased brain capacity and intelligence and maybe another several millennia and they'd probably be speaking their own Ta'agra and wondering why they have paws that suck at grabbing things so badly.

But really though I would seriously appreciate an explanation for Khajiit and Argonian pairings. One lays eggs, the other carries and gives a live birth. If the two come together, what then? How is a child conceived.

Gidorick

The Argonian issue doesn't have to be an issue @ArchMikem . I've previously detailed how my vision of an argonian mixed race could be explained. Here:

Gidorick wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

All races except Argonians/Hist came from the Ehlnofey so in theory could reproduce. The Hist came from their own world in a plane of Oblivion that got destroyed in the war between the Ehlnofey and parts of that world ended up as Black Marsh in Tamriel with the remaining Hist on them. Then the Hist created the Argonians.

Even now there are some relatives of the Hist in Oblivion. E.g.

in the Infernal City novels there are some trees that resemble the Hist in Clavicus Vile's realm and they were the ones that got summoned/helped in bringing Umbriel into Nirn. In fact these trees had help from a rogue Hist that helped the city come into Nirn

Oh I agree that argonians couldn't reproduce with current lore.... but they couldn't let all races BUT argonian interbreed. Concessions would have to be made and there could be some wobbly reason added for the half breed like...

Maybe the argonian half breed wasn't a result of interbreeding but was a result of inter-rearing

Argonian mother-Other race father: the father mixed his blood with the hist sap that the baby argonian consumed on naming day. The progeny looks argonian but has traits of another race.

Argonian father-other race mother: The mother ingested Hist sap while she was pregnant with child. The progeny looks like the mother but has argonian traits.

The mother/father combination would solely be to keep it in line with the other races phylogenetic mechanics.

The Hist are very mysterious and we don't know what weird effects the sap might have in various situations.

Remember, Argonians don't even have a gender before they consume the Hist sap. The stuff is powerful!

Ethromelb14_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

So this is an idea and, unlike my other ideas, this one is pretty short and to the point.

According to the lore “Notes on Racial Phylogeny and Biology”

"Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present."

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/notes-racial-phylogeny-and-biology

I had an idea of how this non-genetic concept of phylogenesis could be utilized ZOS to create a mechanic for ESO that would REALLY encourage players to create and level alternate characters.

Once a player creates and levels a male character AND a female character to a certain point, they are given the OPTION to create an offspring character. That offspring character would:

• Have the base character model of their Mother.
• Have a chosen mixture of the racial abilities of the Mother and the Father.
• Be able to have a mixture of the Mother's and the Father's physical attributes.

ZOS should allow allowed players to pick and choose their racial abilities from either Mother or Father as they go. It would, however, be easier to just take the visual appearance from the mother and the racial abilities from the father, but the mixing of the racial abilities would be an amazing way to build a character.

Additionally, when creating the offspring, players should be given the base character model of the Mother, but be given the physical attributes of both the Mother and Father.

• Eye Color
• Skin Color
• Hair Color
• Hair Style
• Adornments

Bosmer Mother & Argonian Father

The requirements to create a Progeny would be as follows:

• A male character that is level 50
• A female character that is level 50
• A Progeny character slot

Khajiit Mother & Bosmer Father

I could also see allowing married couples to each have the ability to create one offspring from their union. This would mean that ZOS would make crowns off of both the ring of Mara + 2 Progeny slots! To prevent abuse of this, ZOS could institute a way to "level" a marriage and require couples to be certain level before they can produce children... But that's a concept all its own for another thread.

Progeny character slots must be purchased individually in the crown store. ZOS could take the stance that mixed race offspring are infertile so that only core races can mix to create a mixed breed. Alternatively, ZOS could allow players to continue to mix their progeny characters after a few "generations" a player could have a character who has each skill from a different race. Ether would be justified. I think I would prefer that mixed races be considered infertile. This would help explain why we don't see all manners of mixed races across Tamriel.

Thoughts?

This is exactly the idea I was suggesting in the OP. But the coolest ideas are created by the community, not the developers, and therefore they don't care to make use of great features. Safe and generic is their approach.

Solid_Metal

damn this is an old thread, and very interesting idea...

i can see that i will use this, will make redguard and khajiit offspring lol