Grinding - why not?

Bevik

While I do enjoy questing after a while it is just as boring as grinding. Not every time I want to read dialogs so I just skip them. Maybe it's a shame but some of the stories are just fillings like "the cat is lost we need to find it then the whole quest leads us to a Delve so we have to kill everything there till the end". Most of the quest are about killing. Would enjoy more puzzle quests to be honest. Really like some of the quest though. Most of them are really well written but they can be overwhelming.

Would be nice to have proper solo and group grind areas with rewards.

Kanar

JungleBoot wrote: »

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Grinding does not even get you any kind of achievement in this game...

Loot grind :
In PVP you don't get any sets, hopefully skills ? (lol)) and in PVE you get what? new sets that look like nothing but Elder Scrolls...

CP grind :
Now you can grind quest and mobs for more champion points to do... ehhh.. nothing ? (grind those sets that are not worth grinding eeehhh(?)).

To sum it up : grind needs to have a purpose strong enough. And ESO doesn't have it at the moment.

Bad ju ju. I resurrected a thread. However, I wan interested in a google search for "ESO is nothing but grinding". This floated to the surface. I quoted a response that I feel hasn't changed since the introduction of CP points. I have done it both ways. I have quested through the faction zones and I have grinded my way to level 50. But, I strongly feel this game lacks direction. Hell, the beginning has actually become more confusing since the introduction of Morrowind. Go anywhere and do anything is great. But, why the hell am I actually doing anything? Cure Vivec? Regain my soul? Save the Faction because it can't save itself? On top of that, grinding is effin' everywhere: Dolmen Grind, Delve Grind, Undaunted Grind, CP Grind, Raw Material Grind, Loot Grind, Motif Grind, and even Style Material Grind. That's not even a complete list. Oh, yeah, the gold grind. I forgot to mention that.

At some point, gamers are going to have to get over their infatuation with grinding. It is an ancient gaming mechanic that has lived out it's day. RNG crusaders need to go home and allow others to enjoy games and their rewards without having to donate a significant portion of their life just to obtain or achieve something. It's ridiculous.

"Grinding", the way you are using the word, IS the game. If you took away all those "grinds" you mention (and you forgot the grind to finish quests) then wtf is left?

It only becomes a problem in the individual's approach. If someone frantically tries to grind out all those things as fast as possible then yeah they're due for a bad time. But if you just look at them as goals to reach then it's not a "grind" it's just the game.

Beardimus

You ground out dat Necro bro

Juju_beans

CodexMMO wrote: »

Everywhere I read, the consensus is that you should not grind in ESO. Are we supposed to only run quests? Why is ESO different from other MMO's when it comes to grinding?

Grind all you want but you'll be missing out on skill points earned from doing quests.

Castiel_Boomer

Juju_beans wrote: »

CodexMMO wrote: »

Everywhere I read, the consensus is that you should not grind in ESO. Are we supposed to only run quests? Why is ESO different from other MMO's when it comes to grinding?

Grind all you want but you'll be missing out on skill points earned from doing quests.

Great point!

MLGProPlayer

AshySamurai wrote: »

CodexMMO wrote: »

Everywhere I read, the consensus is that you should not grind in ESO. Are we supposed to only run quests? Why is ESO different from other MMO's when it comes to grinding?

Because it's not fun for a lot of people here and in game. And yes, ZOS said before release that they want main progress only through exploration and questing.

You run out of quests eventually. And repeating the same quests on each character is boring.

You should definitely play through the quests in your first playthrough. But it's redundant to do it again on every new character.

Jhalin

Edit: yo wth why resurrect this ancient thing

Grinding before questing is honestly the best way to play the game, because you never get to experience real progression until you hit lvl50cp160 and are able to start putting together gear sets.

Once maxed, you also face no true threat from quest mobs, so you can chose to breeze through content, or take it slow to get the full story experience. You can even make it more challenging by disabling your cp, or trying out some fun and unique theorycrafted builds in quests, where you don't have to worry about maximizing dps.

For tank and healer toons, most people choose to grind or get carried through skyreach because the builds aren't optimal for doing damage. My tank struggles with all solo content because it only pulls 5k dps. Even though I won't die to anything, it takes ages to kill even the minor mobs.

Kanar

Jhalin wrote: »

Edit: yo wth why resurrect this ancient thing

Grinding before questing is honestly the best way to play the game, because you never get to experience real progression until you hit lvl50cp160 and are able to start putting together gear sets.

Once maxed, you also face no true threat from quest mobs, so you can chose to breeze through content, or take it slow to get the full story experience. You can even make it more challenging by disabling your cp, or trying out some fun and unique theorycrafted builds in quests, where you don't have to worry about maximizing dps.

For tank and healer toons, most people choose to grind or get carried through skyreach because the builds aren't optimal for doing damage. My tank struggles with all solo content because it only pulls 5k dps. Even though I won't die to anything, it takes ages to kill even the minor mobs.

At low levels, every level you get and every skill/morph you open is progression. What you are suggesting just sounds crazy to me; once you're level 50 quests lose a lot of their fun because they are all snooze fests, even without cp, and there is no character progression. (Do you actually use any of that trash quest gear? Hah maybe one item in 50).

Whereas when you're low level every item you get adds some power and when you get that level ding it's exciting to go in and allocate your points. Last night I had a lot of fun on a new char, no CP allocated, doing quests. I was even hunting for chests and getting excited at the level 8 armor of the trainee that I found.

"It's the journey not the destination."

PlagueSD

UrQuan wrote: »

That's part of the reason why I think each zone should have 1-2 designated grind spots with no quests in the area.

This is already in game. Where do you think the bots hangout?

JungleBoot

Kanar wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Edit: yo wth why resurrect this ancient thing

Grinding before questing is honestly the best way to play the game, because you never get to experience real progression until you hit lvl50cp160 and are able to start putting together gear sets.

Once maxed, you also face no true threat from quest mobs, so you can chose to breeze through content, or take it slow to get the full story experience. You can even make it more challenging by disabling your cp, or trying out some fun and unique theorycrafted builds in quests, where you don't have to worry about maximizing dps.

For tank and healer toons, most people choose to grind or get carried through skyreach because the builds aren't optimal for doing damage. My tank struggles with all solo content because it only pulls 5k dps. Even though I won't die to anything, it takes ages to kill even the minor mobs.

At low levels, every level you get and every skill/morph you open is progression. What you are suggesting just sounds crazy to me; once you're level 50 quests lose a lot of their fun because they are all snooze fests, even without cp, and there is no character progression. (Do you actually use any of that trash quest gear? Hah maybe one item in 50).

Whereas when you're low level every item you get adds some power and when you get that level ding it's exciting to go in and allocate your points. Last night I had a lot of fun on a new char, no CP allocated, doing quests. I was even hunting for chests and getting excited at the level 8 armor of the trainee that I found.

"It's the journey not the destination."

In principle, I agree. The rewards for following the faction quests again and again are either negligible or lack motivating elements to pursue -- even the "skill points" you miss out on. You get 64 just for hitting level 50. That's actually enough to build a character for all content -- even if you have to re-allocate. You can chase down skyshards and dungeons for additional skill points if you want them to get those extra passives or skills you want. You can even hit Cyrodiill for more skill points by raising your alliance rank. There is no lack of ways to acquire skill points for a meaningful build. That still doesn't fix the fact that much of the game is just "grinding". There is only so much grinding players are realistically willing to put up with. 90% of everything I've done since purchasing Morrowind and getting Clockwork City is grinding. I could choose to ignore having EPIC crafted gear or Legendary gear. I could choose not to use jewelry sets. I could choose not to use food buffs. I could choose not to use glyphs on weapons and armor. I could choose not to research traits. That would really really lessen the grind. Just don't care about how effective your character is. A person can do that. Then you're left with game activities that are kind of meh. For example, creatures in dungeons are the same as overland with more HP and more defenses. But, they aren't really different and you are using the same "rotations" over and over -- just longer for some "RNG" drop. I don't know why players think that is "fun". This game could use an injection of new creatures and more.

Jhalin

Kanar wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Edit: yo wth why resurrect this ancient thing

Grinding before questing is honestly the best way to play the game, because you never get to experience real progression until you hit lvl50cp160 and are able to start putting together gear sets.

Once maxed, you also face no true threat from quest mobs, so you can chose to breeze through content, or take it slow to get the full story experience. You can even make it more challenging by disabling your cp, or trying out some fun and unique theorycrafted builds in quests, where you don't have to worry about maximizing dps.

For tank and healer toons, most people choose to grind or get carried through skyreach because the builds aren't optimal for doing damage. My tank struggles with all solo content because it only pulls 5k dps. Even though I won't die to anything, it takes ages to kill even the minor mobs.

At low levels, every level you get and every skill/morph you open is progression. What you are suggesting just sounds crazy to me; once you're level 50 quests lose a lot of their fun because they are all snooze fests, even without cp, and there is no character progression. (Do you actually use any of that trash quest gear? Hah maybe one item in 50).

Whereas when you're low level every item you get adds some power and when you get that level ding it's exciting to go in and allocate your points. Last night I had a lot of fun on a new char, no CP allocated, doing quests. I was even hunting for chests and getting excited at the level 8 armor of the trainee that I found.

"It's the journey not the destination."

There's quite a few quest rewards that are very valuable provided you don't get them at low levels and end up with worthless gear. Scarab's Sting comes to mind, it's selling for 15k on PC NA. And is incredibly useful for stam dps setups.

Personally I don't find having to change out gear every few minutes "progression", I call it "annoying". After you've outleveled your gear by about 10 levels you may as well be running a naked toon. Getting skills the slow way is fine the first time while you're still learning how the game works, but after that, on your third, fourth toon? You get sick of the climb to the point of usefulness, aka lvl50cp160.

Not even mentioning the vast difference in gold rewards between low levels and max. If you do all the Caldwell quests at max level, that's about 350k gold just waiting to be collected. Which, coincidently, will probably be just enough to gold out a full set or two of gear.

oXI_Viper_IXo

There is nothing wrong with grinding; people can enjoy the game however they wish. The only times it would become an issue is if you just grind to max level, not learning anything about rotations or how to properly DPS, tank, or heal and then going into PvP or dungeons expecting to be good, just because you're max level.

Twenty0zTsunami

AshySamurai wrote: »

CodexMMO wrote: »

Everywhere I read, the consensus is that you should not grind in ESO. Are we supposed to only run quests? Why is ESO different from other MMO's when it comes to grinding?

Because it's not fun for a lot of people here and in game. And yes, ZOS said before release that they want main progress only through exploration and questing.

lol I haven't quested for primary xp since my first character. It takes far too long. Ill queue for dungeons repeatedly on the way to 50. Only really focus on quests til lvl 10 w hen they unlock. Then I might do the odd quest in between while waiting on queue.

MLGProPlayer

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with grinding; people can enjoy the game however they wish. The only times it would become an issue is if you just grind to max level, not learning anything about rotations or how to properly DPS, tank, or heal and then going into PvP or dungeons expecting to be good, just because you're max level.

Questing wouldn't teach you any of that anyway.

DoctorESO

oXI_Viper_IXo

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with grinding; people can enjoy the game however they wish. The only times it would become an issue is if you just grind to max level, not learning anything about rotations or how to properly DPS, tank, or heal and then going into PvP or dungeons expecting to be good, just because you're max level.

Questing wouldn't teach you any of that anyway.

That's true. I was mostly responding to the title of the thread.

Twenty0zTsunami

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

F_16C_VIPER wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with grinding; people can enjoy the game however they wish. The only times it would become an issue is if you just grind to max level, not learning anything about rotations or how to properly DPS, tank, or heal and then going into PvP or dungeons expecting to be good, just because you're max level.

Questing wouldn't teach you any of that anyway.

but you would generally spend more time getting to 50, and unlock a lot more skill points along the way.

JungleBoot

And just how much do you need to be able to do on one character -- realistically? Do you need to be a sneaky pickpocket on your crafting character? Do you really need every armor passive when you are only getting the benefits of one or two pieces of light, medium or heavy? All you need are the skill points required to meet the needs of your build. Everything else is just extra. And extra can be good. It's just not "necessary".

Everyone should be able to obtain the materials necessary to upgrade equipment for each character slot within a reasonable amount of time. This use to be possible. Now, you can literally refine 500 raw materials and not get 1 upgrade component. RNG can truly suck at times. At other times, you can refine 150 raw materials and get 2 or 3 dreugh wax, tempers, or resins. It's inconsistent. And yes, I'd prefer consistent drop rates over RNG goodness any day. Why? Then I could, or someone would, determine just how much material is required to upgrade a full set of equipment and you could go collect that, refine it, use it, and get back to playing the game versus spending the next week collecting mats hoping you get what you need.

Narvuntien

Grinding is not fun... simple as that.

The reason you don't have to grind is that the game scales to you. So you can basically do most of the content you want at almost any level. You aren't being forced through gates.

Now PVP at < 160cp sucks and the harder vet dungeons can be dps races that require 300+ cp. But for the most part there is no need to hard grind when you could just be doing the content.

I leveled a character from 1-50 in the time it took to get from Kanarthes Roost to Elden Root. (During the exp event and I did the random daily dungeon everyday) I got from 0 to 700 cp in a year and half without ever grinding.

Lylith

UrQuan wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I used to be able to go into a Public Dungeon and find lots of players in there, and it was easy to tag along with someone else or find another solo to group with. Now, with the Nerf to PD Mob Exp, Public Dungeons are pretty empty other than mobs.

Agreed. I can understand where there was a nerf to the mob XP in public dungeons. The grinding going on in them was sometimes enough to actually make it difficult for someone who was questing to complete the dungeon. I remember at one point I was trying to kill bats in Crow's Wood to do the quest where you offer the bat corpses up to the crows, but I couldn't kill any bats because there were a bunch of people grinding and just slaughtering them all before I could get a hit in. The XP nerf for them seems to have gone too far, though, as far as I'm concerned.

that made me smile.

anyone remember the wolf killing rotation in crows wood when v10 was max level?

good times.

Linaleah

oops, didn't realize this was a necro :P didn't help that I saw familiar names and feb post date :P

DieAlteHexe

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

CodexMMO wrote: »

Everywhere I read, the consensus is that you should not grind in ESO. Are we supposed to only run quests? Why is ESO different from other MMO's when it comes to grinding?

Because it's not fun for a lot of people here and in game. And yes, ZOS said before release that they want main progress only through exploration and questing.

lol I haven't quested for primary xp since my first character. It takes far too long. Ill queue for dungeons repeatedly on the way to 50. Only really focus on quests til lvl 10 w hen they unlock. Then I might do the odd quest in between while waiting on queue.

I did something similar a long time ago (before I took my break) but with dolmen. Oddly (hah) I was less than excited about the game so when a glitch occurred where I couldn't get the game to log in any longer (after a patch) and TS/CS couldn't help, I took a break which really didn't bother me much at the time.

Fast forward to my return: Had a level 50 character and no barking clue how to play her. I mean after all, with most dolmen all you need do is dd everything that moves and/or run around spamming heals.

So, had to start anew and work my way through all the game has to offer and boy, was it a vast improvement over "must get to highest level a.s.a.p.). I'm not sure why I tried that to begin with as I am usually a "journey" sort. Having done that a couple of times, I was able to fix the original character.

All that said, whatever floats your boat but missing out on some important stuff (skill points for one) does really need to be given consideration.

Aerius_Sygale

Kind of silly how irked people get over others grinding... It seems the most simple, EASY way to get XP or Gold. Maybe not most effective, but easiest, and pretty damn good when you can find yourself alone or bring just one group member with you, to a really good grind spot. Quick kills, lots of Vendor trash to sell for some quick Gold turnaround.

Tandor

CodexMMO wrote: »

Everywhere I read, the consensus is that you should not grind in ESO. Are we supposed to only run quests? Why is ESO different from other MMO's when it comes to grinding?

It isn't. Grinding is a boring way of missing the whole point of a MMO regardless of whether it's ESO or any other one. MMOs are about the journey rather than the destination, which is why so many players who grind their way to the "endgame" find it so disappointing when they reach it.

Mayrael

Because some quest lines in ESO are simply amazing and playing them is like interactive movie BUT. When you did those quest lines like 2, 3 or more times it can start to be boring so grinding becomes a thing. Nevertheless if you grind you loose some content, skill lines, skill points etc. so in the end, if you are going to stick to your toon you will have to do quests anyway

AlienSlof

Personally, I find grinding to be so mind-numbingly dull - much prefer a bit of questing over grinding. Only grind I really do is fishing, and I can at least watch netflix while doing that!

Ermiq

Why people are against grinding in ESO? Isn't the answer obvious? ESO devs have made an incredibly great job doing quests, every dialogue string has a voice acting, some quests even have a choice, the amount of stories, characters, situations devs have created is huge. ESO is a brilliant in MMO world because ESO has a great storytelling/questing.
If you pull quests out from ESO, what remains? That's right: grind, bugs, poor made PvP - all this things you can get in every single MMO out there. Singleplayer-like quests is not what you could get in other MMOs.

illusiouk

Grinding it boring but some people have the mentality to do it, so fair play to them.

I'll be grinding next event for cp when we get our xp bonus with training gear and using xp potions. Only time.

Asardes

Grinding to 50 then to CP160 if it's your first character is effective, because it opens up the maximum gear level. Grinding past that isn't, since XP gain is quite fast even without it, and time, being a limited resource, is best spent doing more pleasant & useful activities, such as questing, dungeons, PvP etc. Someone who has reached CP160 and has gotten an idea about builds is perfectly adequate for running vanilla veteran dungeons and normal trials in order to get better gear; also veteran Malestrom is marginally doable, though that's more like 300+ CP content, like veteran DLC dungeons and trials. Unfortunately there seem to be a large number of players who have earned CP trough grinding, near or even past the CP cap, who haven't the slightest idea how to actually play. Another downside of grinding is that a character which is speed-leveled will have very little skill points to spend, leading to a weak build. You need at least 100 skill points to make a decent build, and leveling to 50 only offers 64.

Juju_beans

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

I did something similar a long time ago (before I took my break) but with dolmen. Oddly (hah) I was less than excited about the game so when a glitch occurred where I couldn't get the game to log in any longer (after a patch) and TS/CS couldn't help, I took a break which really didn't bother me much at the time.

Fast forward to my return: Had a level 50 character and no barking clue how to play her. I mean after all, with most dolmen all you need do is dd everything that moves and/or run around spamming heals.

So, had to start anew and work my way through all the game has to offer and boy, was it a vast improvement over "must get to highest level a.s.a.p.). I'm not sure why I tried that to begin with as I am usually a "journey" sort. Having done that a couple of times, I was able to fix the original character.

All that said, whatever floats your boat but missing out on some important stuff (skill points for one) does really need to be given consideration.

Funny you mentioned that. I was in a delve the other day and there was another player a bit in front of me.
All they did was spam acid spray at the mobs and then light shots (prob ran out of stamina). No melee whatsoever.
They were CP 300+. I followed them for a while and then veered down a different path to do my own thing.

Is this what you get when you level up via dolmens ?