Grinding - why not?

cyclonus11

Not all MMOs are the same. I'm glad the game focuses on questing and exploration - I have always hated grinding. Grind for XP, grind for faction, grind for random loot, etc., etc. It's just work, not entertainment. It seems like everyone was complaining about too much grinding 15 years ago. Have things changed? Are mindless chores fun now?

I think time spent grinding should be less XP for the same amount of time spent questing. Still an option, but not as viable of an option.

Aeratus

I'm sorry if you can't appreciate the masterpiece in these quests. However please don't call it a "mindless click fest of dialogue trees", because that is nowhere close to ESO, that is probably the best description for WoW. If you want to grind you still can. It should never be faster than questing anyway, so that's your choice and a problem. Deal with it.

Hyperbole (although to be fair, in response to another hyperbole).

But personally, I think it's closer to "mindless click fest" than "masterpiece."

cyclonus11

Some of us actually listen to the entire spoken dialogue. It's great!

Nestor

UrQuan wrote: »

and in addition it decays by a significant amount (I want to say 20%, but I'm not sure on that) each time you die.

You also get degradation from earning Exp, not as much as getting hit though. It is probably there to simulate weapon degradation that we don't have for PCs, just Siege Equipment.

I have not really tracked armor damage over time, but it seems to me that dieing does not ding the armor all that much. I have died like 3 times in a row and have gotten a small repair bill. Perhaps dieing in combat does more armor degradation than say jumping off a cliff or getting Slaughtered.

EsORising

I did almost every single quest and cadwell's and only got to v6 so...your going to be grinding. Maybe if you did every single quest in the opposing alliances you might get vr8 but you still need 8-14 which isn't an easy task. So yes you will grind a bit. I really wish the partying system was a bit more conveinent to help us group in dungeons and delves. Making me the leader and letting me try and find people isn't a grouping utility... i could of done that on my own.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Currently, I grind all my Characters, I will not waste quests (unless they are Dailies/repeatables) when the game is not ver 1.6.. when the game goes to 1.6 and I can get CP (Champion Points) then I will do quests.. but not until then..

On my ALT Duplicate I have done the main quest and maybe like 1 quest that I wont get back, I have grinded and done repeatable quests to get him from level 3 to VR14.

I am currently leveling a High Elf Sorc (all magicka build, resto and destro staff), Named Dalamar Blackleaf, and I am grinding him to VR1, currently level 44 and in Coldharbour. He hasn't done any quests, not even the main quest yet.. But he will when he is VR1 and 1.6 drops on live..

UrQuan

Nestor wrote: »

You also get degradation from earning Exp, not as much as getting hit though.

I'm not sure that's true anymore. It definitely used to be true, back when repair bills were way higher (and for certain people affected by a bug, way higher), but over the last few months since crafting writs were introduced I've got 1 character who has been doing a couple of writs almost every single day, and nothing else (aside from crafting some stuff for other characters). Granted, each writ doesn't give much XP, but all told she's earned almost a full level of XP just from them (she started at just barely level 30, and now she's close to level 31), and every time I send her to a merchant to sell something her repair bill is at 0.

I_killed_Vivec

"mindless click fest of dialogue trees" ?

Wot? As against "mindless clickfest of grinding"?

ZOS said that they would balance questing, grinding and PvP so all three would give approximately equal XP. We will have to wait until 1.6 comes out to see how successful they have been.

The other problem is that there will be tons of people who've exhausted the quests grinding out CP in Craglorn with nothing else to do.

I'll be one of them, and while I quite enjoy a mindless blast round Spellscar I don't see it holding my interest until the first DLC comes out - probably around Christmas...

CodexMMO

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Currently, I grind all my Characters, I will not waste quests (unless they are Dailies/repeatables) when the game is not ver 1.6.. when the game goes to 1.6 and I can get CP (Champion Points) then I will do quests.. but not until then..

Hold up.......I did a bunch of quests already.... What does it mean "waste quests"? Am I disadvantaged now when it comes to the Champion Point System???

cyclonus11

EsORising wrote: »

I did almost every single quest and cadwell's and only got to v6 so

Interesting. I'm still on Silver and almost VR5, with a full area to go (not even half way through Alik'r and all of Bangkorai ahead). I never grind.

Nestor

UrQuan wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

You also get degradation from earning Exp, not as much as getting hit though.

I'm not sure that's true anymore. It definitely used to be true, back when repair bills were way higher

I meant exp from Mob Kills.

UrQuan

Nestor wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

You also get degradation from earning Exp, not as much as getting hit though.

I'm not sure that's true anymore. It definitely used to be true, back when repair bills were way higher

I meant exp from Mob Kills.

Oh, I see. So basically, rather than the general "you get degradation from combat" that I said you were breaking it down to specify that as part of that combat degradation you get some just from earning combat XP, and somewhat more degradation when you actually get hit in combat. OK, that makes sense. I actually didn't realize that - I thought it was probably the same as long as you were in combat, regardless of whether you were getting hit.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

CodexMMO wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Currently, I grind all my Characters, I will not waste quests (unless they are Dailies/repeatables) when the game is not ver 1.6.. when the game goes to 1.6 and I can get CP (Champion Points) then I will do quests.. but not until then..

Hold up.......I did a bunch of quests already.... What does it mean "waste quests"? Am I disadvantaged now when it comes to the Champion Point System???

Yup, when you do quests (this includes cadwell's silver and gold) that are non repeatable, you will not be able to go back and do them again when 1.6 drops, meaning, all the XP you get from quests now will not count toward Champion points, that is why I made my ALT Duplicate, and retired my old Kotaro (he is available I just use him for crafting and such, gathering from time to time) because he did almost all of the quests the game has to offer and will only really be able to do repeatable quests and grind to get Champion Points..

I will not do quests on any character until 1.6 and the Champion System is on the live servers..

RazielSR

This game is about grinding. There is no immersion,nor enjoyable quest. So, the best way to play this game is by grinding. The new champion system is a major grind too.

Problem is that zos forgot this game was about TES universe,so it is a failure.

I_killed_Vivec

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

CodexMMO wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Currently, I grind all my Characters, I will not waste quests (unless they are Dailies/repeatables) when the game is not ver 1.6.. when the game goes to 1.6 and I can get CP (Champion Points) then I will do quests.. but not until then..

Hold up.......I did a bunch of quests already.... What does it mean "waste quests"? Am I disadvantaged now when it comes to the Champion Point System???

Yup, when you do quests (this includes cadwell's silver and gold) that are non repeatable, you will not be able to go back and do them again when 1.6 drops, meaning, all the XP you get from quests now will not count toward Champion points, that is why I made my ALT Duplicate, and retired my old Kotaro (he is available I just use him for crafting and such, gathering from time to time) because he did almost all of the quests the game has to offer and will only really be able to do repeatable quests and grind to get Champion Points..

I will not do quests on any character until 1.6 and the Champion System is on the live servers..

That's not quite right. Yes, you will not be able to repeat quests, but the XP that you gain now will be converted to CP. Now we don't know the exact rate of XP to CP conversion when 1.6 finally goes live, but you probably won't lose much (if any) on the conversion.

Besides, if you want to carry on playing the game what are you going to do? If you don't want to PvP then there's only grinding left - you end up grinding now and saving quests when you could have been questing leaving the grinding until later...

The only time when NOT completing quests makes sense is if you are already VR14 with the XP that would take you to VR15 (if it existed). In this particular case XP gained from quests is wasted (not converted to CP) and will be lost to you when the Champion System arrives.

Iluvrien

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Interesting. I'm still on Silver and almost VR5, with a full area to go (not even half way through Alik'r and all of Bangkorai ahead). I never grind.

This is similar to my experience. I reached VR6 a couple of days ago and only just started Silver Alik'r last night... I am going to end up a lot higher than VR8 by the end of Cadwell's Gold.

As for grinding or not, I think my feelings on the matter were summed up pretty well in a previous comment.

The summary from that fairly long comment was as follows:

TL;DR : Yes, have grinding spots for endgame/PvP focussed people. However, keep those spots and those people away from me.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

CodexMMO wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Currently, I grind all my Characters, I will not waste quests (unless they are Dailies/repeatables) when the game is not ver 1.6.. when the game goes to 1.6 and I can get CP (Champion Points) then I will do quests.. but not until then..

Hold up.......I did a bunch of quests already.... What does it mean "waste quests"? Am I disadvantaged now when it comes to the Champion Point System???

Yup, when you do quests (this includes cadwell's silver and gold) that are non repeatable, you will not be able to go back and do them again when 1.6 drops, meaning, all the XP you get from quests now will not count toward Champion points, that is why I made my ALT Duplicate, and retired my old Kotaro (he is available I just use him for crafting and such, gathering from time to time) because he did almost all of the quests the game has to offer and will only really be able to do repeatable quests and grind to get Champion Points..

I will not do quests on any character until 1.6 and the Champion System is on the live servers..

That's not quite right. Yes, you will not be able to repeat quests, but the XP that you gain now will be converted to CP. Now we don't know the exact rate of XP to CP conversion when 1.6 finally goes live, but you probably won't lose much (if any) on the conversion.

Besides, if you want to carry on playing the game what are you going to do? If you don't want to PvP then there's only grinding left - you end up grinding now and saving quests when you could have been questing leaving the grinding until later...

The only time when NOT completing quests makes sense is if you are already VR14 with the XP that would take you to VR15 (if it existed). In this particular case XP gained from quests is wasted (not converted to CP) and will be lost to you when the Champion System arrives.

A person with a VR14 on their acct will only get 70 CP Max, so what is this XP being converted..and Yes ZOS already told us the Conversion rate,

it is right here- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145544/feedback-to-the-champion-system/p1

This is a FACT= Those that have more quests available when 1.6 drops will be able to quest (cadwell's Silver and Gold, amongst the thousand other quests) and get more CP (champion points) than those that do not have them, those that do not have quests to do will have to do dailies, PvP, and grind for CP.

PS- I am a player who already has two VR14's and my original main character, made it way past VR15 in XP (more like VR17 +), so I will not get anymore than 70 CP until 1.6 goes live..

badmojo

Grinding is not against the terms of service, do whatever you want.

I_killed_Vivec

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

A person with a VR14 on their acct will only get 70 CP Max, so what is this XP being converted..and Yes ZOS already told us the Conversion rate,

it is right here- http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145544/feedback-to-the-champion-system/p1

This is a FACT= Those that have more quests available when 1.6 drops will be able to quest (cadwell's Silver and Gold, amongst the thousand other quests) and get more CP (champion points) than those that do not have them, those that do not have quests to do will have to do dailies, PvP, and grind for CP.

PS- I am a player who already has two VR14's and my original main character, made it way past VR15 in XP (more like VR17 +), so I will not get anymore than 70 CP until 1.6 goes live..

If you have a brand new VR1 with no XP counting towards CP then come 1.6 you will get no CP but you will have all quests available to gain XP and so CP.

If you do 1,000,000 XP worth of questing then come 1.6 you will get 5 CP, but will have lost 1,000,000 XP worth of questing.

The conversion rate we don't know, because ZOS are still balancing it, is the XP to CP rate after 1.6 comes in.

But say it's the same as the 200,000 conversion rate.

Then the 1 million XP that come from the quests is worth 5 CP.

Therefore it doesn't matter if you do it now - and get it converted when 1.6 comes in but use up quests - or do it later and convert no CP but have the quests available.

But that assumes a conversion rate of 200,000 XP to 1 CP after 1.6 comes in.

If the rate is not as good then it makes sense to do the questing before conversion. If it is better than it makes sense to leave questing until after 1.6 comes in. ZOS won't tell us...

But if you are VR14 with full XP then save quests (if you have any left) and prepare to grind...

Kragorn

CodexMMO wrote: »

Everywhere I read, the consensus is that you should not grind in ESO. Are we supposed to only run quests? Why is ESO different from other MMO's when it comes to grinding?

Grinding may be the 'norm', that doesn't mean it should exist.

Kragorn

CodexMMO wrote: »

I wasn't saying I want to grind, I was just wondering why people say, "you don't grind in ESO." It makes sense to me now why people say that if the mob spawn farming areas were eliminated, or reduced.

This game really seems to hide a lot of information from those of use who do like to grind:

1. I don't know how much damage I am doing, how much damage I receive, and from what mob.
2. I don't really know how much EXP am I getting from each mob.
3. I don't understand the amount of decay my equipment takes from use just from fighting (without dying) either.
4. It is somewhat cumbersome to collect the loot while 'grinding' too.

1) Not sure how damage numbers relate to grinding

2) Check XP, kill a mob, check XP .. voila, you know how much you got. Given 'grinding' is usually simply killing the same types of mob over-and-over-and-over again and it's reasonable to expect each individual mob of the same type will give you the same XP, what's left to know?

3) As for damage numbers, I don't see what gear decay has to do with grinding

4) In which MMO isn't this an issue? Certainly ZOs' introduction of 0-value white gear no one in their right mind would ever use was a pain but if you're grinding mobs for XP you can simply not loot corpses, that's what I do on the rare occasion I feel like grinding; unless of course one's grinding crafting mats.

Tonnopesce

I used to do quests but then i hitted vr 12 and craglorn.............
They cannot force the Quest but they cannot force the grind (vr 12-14 tru quests? .......meh)

The result is something that no one likes : Grinding quests....... GJ ZOS

Expecially if you want to do an alt is just the most boring thing in the game....
i've already done all the quests in the game (i have all the arcivements for all the zones)... now i dont want to do it again but i have to.
This is not ruining my game experience but is BOOOOOOORING

firstdecan

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

"mindless click fest of dialogue trees" ?

Wot? As against "mindless clickfest of grinding"?

The people who want grinds just want to get into competitive end game content more quickly. They've either done the quests once and don't want to do them again, or find that storylines written to the depth of a graphic novel are not that engaging. The grinds aren't particularly fun, they're simply more exciting and\or quicker than running to random locations and pressing the 'E' key.

The fact that ZOS is looking at making all forms of advancement take an equivalent amount of time is a mistake. If it takes just as long to grind a character up as it does to quest (almost 400 hours of game time to get to VR14), they will lose players. At that rate, it will take most players 6 months to a year to get to VR14 in order to be able to play the content they want. Very few people are going to waste 6 months to a year of their time doing things they don't like just to get to the part in a game they do like.

People who want to quest are welcome to quest. Enjoy the story, no one wants to take that away from you. It's something leisurely to do, and there's nothing wrong with that. But questing is not a competitive experience, it's barely challenging. By disallowing players to get to the content they want, ZOS is simply proving that they don't have a competitive product. They're basically marketing a choose your own adventure story, and one that is far inferior to the single player games in the franchise.

To the original point of the thread - The reason against the grinding is because of the vocal subset of the community that believes the only way to have fun in this game is to read every branch of every dialogue tree. They have no interest in the competitive aspects of this game, and decry as elitist those who do. As such, they are driving competitive players away by forcing those competitive players into content the competitive players do not like. Effectively, ZOS has no interest in making a fun game, they want to target the players who aren't looking for a challenge.

Grinding is just a means to an end, the challenging content. No one really enjoys it, it's simply been quicker than the insane amount of time it takes to get your character ready for the competitive aspects of the game. If ZOS wants to prevent players from engaging in content that's actually challenging, that's their design decision, but the only people who will be left to "play" the game are the RPers who use this as a virtual chat room (I'm not criticizing), and the leisure gaming crowd with no interest in challenges. The RPers would be better served by something like "Zwinky" skinned for adults, and the leisure gaming crowd will be better served by a single player sandbox game. Remove the competitive aspect of an MMO by placing an absurd barrier of entry to the competitive content, and you've basically ruined the MMO.

JungleBoot

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Grinding does not even get you any kind of achievement in this game...

Loot grind :
In PVP you don't get any sets, hopefully skills ? (lol)) and in PVE you get what? new sets that look like nothing but Elder Scrolls...

CP grind :
Now you can grind quest and mobs for more champion points to do... ehhh.. nothing ? (grind those sets that are not worth grinding eeehhh(?)).

To sum it up : grind needs to have a purpose strong enough. And ESO doesn't have it at the moment.

Bad ju ju. I resurrected a thread. However, I wan interested in a google search for "ESO is nothing but grinding". This floated to the surface. I quoted a response that I feel hasn't changed since the introduction of CP points. I have done it both ways. I have quested through the faction zones and I have grinded my way to level 50. But, I strongly feel this game lacks direction. Hell, the beginning has actually become more confusing since the introduction of Morrowind. Go anywhere and do anything is great. But, why the hell am I actually doing anything? Cure Vivec? Regain my soul? Save the Faction because it can't save itself? On top of that, grinding is effin' everywhere: Dolmen Grind, Delve Grind, Undaunted Grind, CP Grind, Raw Material Grind, Loot Grind, Motif Grind, and even Style Material Grind. That's not even a complete list. Oh, yeah, the gold grind. I forgot to mention that.

At some point, gamers are going to have to get over their infatuation with grinding. It is an ancient gaming mechanic that has lived out it's day. RNG crusaders need to go home and allow others to enjoy games and their rewards without having to donate a significant portion of their life just to obtain or achieve something. It's ridiculous.

neverwalk

What grind, i've new toon at level 16 with 720 cp, the only grind for him is getting him to level 50 and then he becomes a maxed out toon. Remember CP is account wide.

JungleBoot

That's not true for new players or even players that need gear. Once you have all that you need it is easy to reply that way. But, how much time did it take you to reach that level? How much did you rely on others to get you your gear and on and on? It's an MMO. I know. But, grinding is an impediment to enjoyment. How fun is it to scramble around a map in search of material nodes and hope that someone hasn't reached it before you and left -- oh, I don't know, worms? That's part of the grind even for high level CP players. And not everyone belongs to a massive guild. There are solo players out there who join random groups to get things done.

Shezzarrine

JungleBoot wrote: »

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Grinding does not even get you any kind of achievement in this game...

Loot grind :
In PVP you don't get any sets, hopefully skills ? (lol)) and in PVE you get what? new sets that look like nothing but Elder Scrolls...

CP grind :
Now you can grind quest and mobs for more champion points to do... ehhh.. nothing ? (grind those sets that are not worth grinding eeehhh(?)).

To sum it up : grind needs to have a purpose strong enough. And ESO doesn't have it at the moment.

Bad ju ju. I resurrected a thread. However, I wan interested in a google search for "ESO is nothing but grinding". This floated to the surface. I quoted a response that I feel hasn't changed since the introduction of CP points. I have done it both ways. I have quested through the faction zones and I have grinded my way to level 50. But, I strongly feel this game lacks direction. Hell, the beginning has actually become more confusing since the introduction of Morrowind. Go anywhere and do anything is great. But, why the hell am I actually doing anything? Cure Vivec? Regain my soul? Save the Faction because it can't save itself? On top of that, grinding is effin' everywhere: Dolmen Grind, Delve Grind, Undaunted Grind, CP Grind, Raw Material Grind, Loot Grind, Motif Grind, and even Style Material Grind. That's not even a complete list. Oh, yeah, the gold grind. I forgot to mention that.

At some point, gamers are going to have to get over their infatuation with grinding. It is an ancient gaming mechanic that has lived out it's day. RNG crusaders need to go home and allow others to enjoy games and their rewards without having to donate a significant portion of their life just to obtain or achieve something. It's ridiculous.

I shouldn't comment on a resurrected thread, but without grind, MMOs are nothing. Think it through. If grinding isn't your thing MMOs are not for you plain and simple.

JungleBoot

I primarily play solo and join groups when needed. This means I am my own raw materials gatherer. My own crafter. It also means it takes me an inordinate amount of time just to get what is needed to max out sets and weapons. That grind detracts from other things I could be doing that are more enjoyable activities. But, I have to be prepared first or people don't want you taggin' along.

TheCyberDruid

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

Lol makes it sound like we need quarantining in non-immersion zones. Stay behind the fenced area's grinders, dont want your infectious mob farming ways reaching the eyes of the innocent unexposed masses! eek.

Well, there are actually daily quests that are a nightmare to finish if you have a 'grinder' running circles in those particular delves (looking at you Parts of the Whole and Free Spirits) and killing everything left and right. I do know that they never got to have the quest so they don't know what they are doing 'wrong', but boy does it suck. It's a problem that ZOS doesn't see and I blame them for it. There should be spots that are meant for grinding and give some rewards that are unique.

Castiel_Boomer

After completing every quest that was currently available to me about 15 times (no exaggeration) I found it tedious to run from quest marker to quest marker, taking on medial tasks, such as finding someone's lost mead for incompetent NPC's. I pick and choose certain quests that I still find rewarding to complete, however the "urge" to actually do questing has LONG since lost its luster for me. So grinding is the ONLY way for me to get through it now. I would suggest that new players go through each quest and enjoy them, but once you have done it so many times that you know precisely where to go and when, then grinding becomes the only answer, LOL. The game changes often, so I am constantly finding the need to make new characters, or change classes, etc. For me, going through these quests again is annoying at best, but I suggest that you don't grind until you have at least experienced it all. That's just my 2 cents on the issue.