Sorcerer in 1.6.1

OtarTheMad

Sorcerer's will no doubt get a boost when Spellcrafting comes out and we can have more reliable summons, more destruction magic and maybe even some spells more Alteration and Illusion. Then Sorcs will be who they were in past games.

I also agree with @Faulgor on what Sorcs were in the past TES games. You saw a lot of variety in mages, some were light armor... they were fairly easy to kill if they did not utilize spells from alteration and illusion which boosted your armor and gave you spells that would bend your enemies will and have them attack each other. You also had a pretty strong class that was called Battlemage. Typically a battlemage is what he stated above, a mage who wears Heavy Armor but deals Destruction spells. This is something that honestly I am going to be testing as soon as NA server characters are copied again.

Spellcrafting is something that can't happen soon enough. From a TES fan it will bring in spells from past games and make it more TES feel and from an ESO fan it will open up builds. Sorcs won't be just Sorcs... you might have an Illusionist, or an Alteration Master.... maybe a Destruction Mage or how about a Master of Conjuration. Sorcs might also be able to help keep up with Templars with spells from Restoration.

Same goes with other classes as well. NB's become more stealthy with spells like muffle and invisibility (maybe) and Templars become better healers or maybe do more damage... whatever you want.

If you have NEVER played an Elder Scrolls game before... I urge you to check out UESP. A great site that has followed TES since Arena. Then you'll be as excited for Spellcrafting to happen as us TES fans. Update 6 may knock Sorcs down a peg but whenever the f*k spellcrafting comes out... all classes will be even.

Snit

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Sorcerer's will no doubt get a boost when Spellcrafting comes out...

Perhaps. But keep in mind that Spellcrafting is not currently being worked on. ZOS has said exactly that. It's still planned for sometime in the future, but it's not scheduled and nobody's doing anything on it.

OtarTheMad

Snit wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Sorcerer's will no doubt get a boost when Spellcrafting comes out...

Perhaps. But keep in mind that Spellcrafting is not currently being worked on. ZOS has said exactly that. It's still planned for sometime in the future, but it's not scheduled and nobody's doing anything on it.

Well that's too bad and a huge miscalculation by ZOS. A lot of things are probably on hold until this game finally hits console and then they can judge what kind of fan base they have and what plans need to be first and what ones can wait.

Derra

Gyudan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Fayaburn: I´ve been using 5x Necropotence 4x Healer 2x Torugs Pact. All Points into Magica. Mage Mundus.

Did you use the same setup to test DPS without relying on pets or something closer to this?

Exstazik wrote: »

4 martial knowledge+2 adroitness+2 Cyrodil light+3 torug's pact

I have only tested with pets. I can´t see a sorc performing anywhere close to that singletarget without the pets because the class has no access to damage over time abilities that exceed the damage of their spam ability.
Other classes up their dps bc they are able to apply abilities that offer a greater damage per cast (over time) than their standard nuke. Sorcs simply have no access to any abilitys that perform that way except for pets.
The only thing i can imagine is destructive touch with a masters staff (that one now ups the dot so destructive touchs damage exceeds that of crystal fragments on a per cast ratio).

Without pets i would use the above mentioned setup.

Ommamar

I don't have my add-ons working on test so can't give you exact numbers. However I just got a pve achievement on my non pet Sorceror earlier for doing over a million points of damage in a dungeon. Build consists of mostly Sorceror skills, the knockback form destro, the shield magic absorb morph and the rune from mage guild. I didn't even know there was such an achievement until the message popped up.
I haven't tried pvp on test yet which is nothing like live but I will see how it goes later. Kind of thinking it won't go well in a one vs one as I only have 15 points in health so expect to be one shotted a lot.

Kyoma

Ommamar wrote: »

....for doing over a million points of damage in a dungeon.

It's interesting to point out that the "million" hasn't changed so it's the same as getting 100k on live (more or less)

Dymence

Ommamar wrote: »

I don't have my add-ons working on test so can't give you exact numbers. However I just got a pve achievement on my non pet Sorceror earlier for doing over a million points of damage in a dungeon. Build consists of mostly Sorceror skills, the knockback form destro, the shield magic absorb morph and the rune from mage guild. I didn't even know there was such an achievement until the message popped up.
I haven't tried pvp on test yet which is nothing like live but I will see how it goes later. Kind of thinking it won't go well in a one vs one as I only have 15 points in health so expect to be one shotted a lot.

That achievement is for doing a million points of damage total spread over all of your dungeon runs. Not in one single dungeon run.

Ommamar

Dymence wrote: »

Ommamar wrote: »

I don't have my add-ons working on test so can't give you exact numbers. However I just got a pve achievement on my non pet Sorceror earlier for doing over a million points of damage in a dungeon. Build consists of mostly Sorceror skills, the knockback form destro, the shield magic absorb morph and the rune from mage guild. I didn't even know there was such an achievement until the message popped up.
I haven't tried pvp on test yet which is nothing like live but I will see how it goes later. Kind of thinking it won't go well in a one vs one as I only have 15 points in health so expect to be one shotted a lot.

That achievement is for doing a million points of damage total spread over all of your dungeon runs. Not in one single dungeon run.

Well since it was a template on test that was the first character to run a dungeon that means it did over a million points in that damage. The thing is with the new stat system I don't think it has been adjusted so good but not as impressive as if it was on current live.

Fruity_Ninja

Fayaburn wrote: »

@‌Derra
If no changes are made to either Light armor or monster's damage, I'm not sure I would take the risk not to run with a 5L/2H armor setup.

Not a bad idea. My Sorc is currently wearing 5 light, 1 med and 1 heavy- with the aim to train med and heavy to 50 by the next patch. At least it will allow flexibility, especially if I can unlock the undaunted passives it might be worth even keeping a 5/1/1 mix or moving to 5/2.

Derra

Well i have to admit my post on dmg abilities was a little bit oversimplyfied.

Sorc has access to abilities that exceed the potential of their standard nuke. It would look something like:

Destructive Reach (every 8s), Curse (every 4s), CS (filler), Fragments (priority when procced), degeneration (every 20s second bar) inner light is mandatory and the benefit of curse over 8% max magica from bound aegis is debateable.

I don´t think proccs from fragments will be enough to compete with ~3300 dps coming from pets (this was tested in pvp might be a little less in pve def. not much though).

xherics

Derra wrote: »

Well i have to admit my post on dmg abilities was a little bit oversimplyfied.

Sorc has access to abilities that exceed the potential of their standard nuke. It would look something like:

Destructive Reach (every 8s), Curse (every 4s), CS (filler), Fragments (priority when procced), degeneration (every 20s second bar) inner light is mandatory and the benefit of curse over 8% max magica from bound aegis is debateable.

I don´t think proccs from fragments will be enough to compete with ~3300 dps coming from pets (this was tested in pvp might be a little less in pve def. not much though).

Already tested this, no more sust. dps than 8k. I tried every possible combinations on single target, but it was not more than 8k sust. DPS.
It can be like 11k-12k while the atronach or the meteor is used and they make the DoT, but after the ultimate ends, the dps goes down back to 8k.

RoyJade

I can have a 12-13k dps with overload, but without ultimate the sorcerer dps is pretty low…
I hope the 1.6.2 (perhaps tuesday?) will give sorcerer a better dps without unbalanced the pvp.

Danisheraser

Personally I think the problem with sorcs is, that we can only be DPS. We're not good healers and we're not good tanks. Templars, DK's and NB's can do all 3 roles (however templar does it best ). ZOS needs to do something about this imbalance.

ItsRejectz

Danisheraser wrote: »

Personally I think the problem with sorcs is, that we can only be DPS. We're not good healers and we're not good tanks. Templars, DK's and NB's can do all 3 roles (however templar does it best ). ZOS needs to do something about this imbalance.

True... Plus, people will just go sorcs have hardened ward. But if they will have listened to the latest Q&A then they would of heard the devs will be addressing shield stacking soon. Once that comes in sorcs are going to be even squishier ( <-- not sure if that's a real word lol )

Holycannoli

OtarTheMad wrote: »

If you have NEVER played an Elder Scrolls game before... I urge you to check out UESP. A great site that has followed TES since Arena. Then you'll be as excited for Spellcrafting to happen as us TES fans. Update 6 may knock Sorcs down a peg but whenever the f*k spellcrafting comes out... all classes will be even.

UESP has a whole lot of nothing about ESO. I've gone there to look up quests or what a certain dungeon boss drops for loot and there's no info.

It's only good for the single player games.

And spellcrafting may be a year away or more.

Jar_Ek

One additional problem to note is that stamina sorcerer s and hybrids are doomed in 1.6.1 as the stamina morphs do not include any real damage skills or indeed any stamina skills that scale with stamina. So they do not get anywhere near as much benefit from min/maxing... plus crit surge is still pretty RNG reliant and the stamina regeneration potential causes a cc effect.

Derra

Jar_Ek wrote: »

One additional problem to note is that stamina sorcerer s and hybrids are doomed in 1.6.1 as the stamina morphs do not include any real damage skills or indeed any stamina skills that scale with stamina. So they do not get anywhere near as much benefit from min/maxing... plus crit surge is still pretty RNG reliant and the stamina regeneration potential causes a cc effect.

Well and the partially interesting stamina morph of bound armamend is a freaking toggle. Does anybody like toggles in this game? Why do they even exist.

OtarTheMad

Holycannoli wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

If you have NEVER played an Elder Scrolls game before... I urge you to check out UESP. A great site that has followed TES since Arena. Then you'll be as excited for Spellcrafting to happen as us TES fans. Update 6 may knock Sorcs down a peg but whenever the f*k spellcrafting comes out... all classes will be even.

UESP has a whole lot of nothing about ESO. I've gone there to look up quests or what a certain dungeon boss drops for loot and there's no info.

It's only good for the single player games.

And spellcrafting may be a year away or more.

Yes, I agree. I would guess that UESP is still data collecting or something, idk. I was speaking more to those who have never played an Elder Scrolls game before and they could go that website to see what kind of spells were in the other games, which might be coming out when Spellcrafting hits. Unfortunately I said that before I realized that Spellcrafting was on the back burner until after the console release. I guess I was hoping it'd be part of Update 7... guess not.

xherics

Derra wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

One additional problem to note is that stamina sorcerer s and hybrids are doomed in 1.6.1 as the stamina morphs do not include any real damage skills or indeed any stamina skills that scale with stamina. So they do not get anywhere near as much benefit from min/maxing... plus crit surge is still pretty RNG reliant and the stamina regeneration potential causes a cc effect.

Well and the partially interesting stamina morph of bound armamend is a freaking toggle. Does anybody like toggles in this game? Why do they even exist.

Sorcerers "like" toggles as (hell) well, because we have them already few...

Dracane

Snit wrote: »

Perhaps. But keep in mind that Spellcrafting is not currently being worked on. ZOS has said exactly that. It's still planned for sometime in the future, but it's not scheduled and nobody's doing anything on it.

I'm glad to hear that. Spellcrafting can't come late enough. Maybe it will never come (which would make me happy)

Pyatra

'

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Danisheraser wrote: »

Personally I think the problem with sorcs is, that we can only be DPS. We're not good healers and we're not good tanks. Templars, DK's and NB's can do all 3 roles (however templar does it best ). ZOS needs to do something about this imbalance.

True... Plus, people will just go sorcs have hardened ward. But if they will have listened to the latest Q&A then they would of heard the devs will be addressing shield stacking soon. Once that comes in sorcs are going to be even squishier ( <-- not sure if that's a real word lol )

Some Templars are stacking too heavily right now, so it should affect them as well.

SorataArisugawa

Dracane wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Perhaps. But keep in mind that Spellcrafting is not currently being worked on. ZOS has said exactly that. It's still planned for sometime in the future, but it's not scheduled and nobody's doing anything on it.

I'm glad to hear that. Spellcrafting can't come late enough. Maybe it will never come (which would make me happy)

Just why?
I think this is going to be the best part of the game. Hope it hit the life as soon as possible. It will add so much variety to the game. Hope they speed up with Spell crafting after the console verion is out.

Morvul

Dracane wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Perhaps. But keep in mind that Spellcrafting is not currently being worked on. ZOS has said exactly that. It's still planned for sometime in the future, but it's not scheduled and nobody's doing anything on it.

I'm glad to hear that. Spellcrafting can't come late enough. Maybe it will never come (which would make me happy)

not sure if serious
or trying reverse-psychology on ZoS

XEVENEX

Morvul wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Perhaps. But keep in mind that Spellcrafting is not currently being worked on. ZOS has said exactly that. It's still planned for sometime in the future, but it's not scheduled and nobody's doing anything on it.

I'm glad to hear that. Spellcrafting can't come late enough. Maybe it will never come (which would make me happy)

not sure if serious
or trying reverse-psychology on ZoS

Judging by what they had to show us at fanfest (a photoshopped enchanting interface), I doubt we'll ever see spell crafting. It just sounded cool and it was something to pacify us with while they were actually working on the crown store and console stuff.

Derra

I honestly don´t think spellcrafting would do the game any good in the next 6+ months.
It´s simply to much balancing effort.
I´d much rather have them add new weapon sets to the game with a reasonable timeframe to balance them out than add an overly complex spellcrafting system with 5 overpowered spells that everybody uses in the end.

Eg: Conjuration staff (maybe add conjured weapons with their own stamina skilllines here),
1handed without a shield...

Jar_Ek

Back on topic.
Have retested critical surge as a stamina DW sorcerer and it does not provide sufficient and reliable enough healing in its current form for use in melee, esp. against multiple mobs. That is with Thundering presence and the stamina morph of bound armour. The single biggest issue being the reduction in healing vs multiple mobs and the second being the eng nature of the heals... still.

The critical surge version needs to be modified such that the CD is removed as its morph effect... not the base healing % increased unless that base % is scaled with number of foes and calculated off the highest damage source within the last .25 secs.

Holycannoli

Derra wrote: »

I honestly don´t think spellcrafting would do the game any good in the next 6+ months.
It´s simply to much balancing effort.
I´d much rather have them add new weapon sets to the game with a reasonable timeframe to balance them out than add an overly complex spellcrafting system with 5 overpowered spells that everybody uses in the end.

Eg: Conjuration staff (maybe add conjured weapons with their own stamina skilllines here),
1handed without a shield...

But they have no idea how to balance the game anyway so just give us spellcrafting so we can all be overpowered. If we're all overpowered none of us are really overpowered are we?

OtarTheMad

I think that ZOS would really be screwing up by not introducing Spellcrafting honestly. If you remember from Quakecon they had a video of one of the devs using some of them and it looked sweet.

Speaking as a fan of Elder Scrolls I would absolutely love it if my Sorc could use Chain Lightning or Conjure up some atronachs or have an ice cloak or whatever.

I believe they put a lot of this stuff on hold until they see where they are at after console release. It's probably safe to say that all planned new content is on hold until after console basically because they have no idea how people will react. To not release it at all after teasing it at Quakecon would NOT be a good business decision.

EDIT- Not releasing it could just *** off some of the fanbase enough where a lot of people walk away, maybe even me. I know that my Sorcerer is not as powerful offensively as my other characters I played in Oblivion and Skyrim. In ESO Sorcs are basically an annoyance/support class when we are supposed to be dangerous.

Snit

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I think that ZOS would really be screwing up by not introducing Spellcrafting honestly.

Why do you think spellcrafting would be more important for sorcs than any other class? It would almost certainly apply to all class abilities, for every class.

Again, though, they're not even working on it. That's a shame, but it's probably no more likely than player housing or flying mounts to see release this year.

OtarTheMad

Snit wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I think that ZOS would really be screwing up by not introducing Spellcrafting honestly.

Why do you think spellcrafting would be more important for sorcs than any other class? It would almost certainly apply to all class abilities, for every class.

Again, though, they're not even working on it. That's a shame, but it's probably no more likely than player housing or flying mounts to see release this year.

Well it's not, I mean any class can benefit from the Spellcrafting system if it were ever released. DKs with fire spells, Templars with anything from Restoration or even alteration. NBs from Illusion. I just said Sorcs because out of all the classes I think we use our class skills the least and it would be nice to be able to be a "powerful" mage.

It is a real shame because I would feel ripped off if they didn't release it after teasing it at Quakecon. I am holding out hope however due to everything being apparently on hold until after console release... we'll see what they say after that.