Sorcerer in 1.6.1

Cody · February 2015

Well I watched a LA sorc use never ending amounts of damage shields and be literally impossible to kill for 3-4 of us.....

have yet to see DKs or NBs do that. Only temps have done so along with the sorcs.

so....

yeah:/

Asgari · February 2015

aco5712 wrote: »

Id rather have a class shield then stupid HoTs (NB speaking)

sorc is ridiculously OP in 1.6. Crushing shock builds are wrecking face. They are extremely hard to fight coz the amount of pressure they put on you is absurd.

Shhh less SORCS my Sorc has to fight the better

ToRelax · February 2015

Sorcs complain about no healing, others complain about Damage Shields with maxed out Magicka.

So give Sorcs good healing, and make all damage shields based of max health again.
A bit more resources would be good as well, at least let us gain CP faster. With it's resource pools my template didn't really have an option other than shield stacking, I haven't yet logged in PTS with my main, maybe it's different with her.

Bouvin · February 2015

technohic wrote: »

I'm wondering with Negate being changed, will it remove peoples damage shields when cast now?

That would be awesome.

Bouvin · February 2015

McDoogs wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

The real issue is or was to give Templars a full tree dedicated on healing. That totally destroys the balance of the game.

Give every class the skills to be an equal healer or no class - but to give a class a tree full of great heals and to give the crap to the resto staff is just dumb.

WTF is up with sorcerors crying about templars in every thread?

It's called Templar Envy.

s7732425ub17_ESO · February 2015

Why does everyone say Sorcs need a resto staff to survive? In PVP, I only use Resto staff for Mutagen outside of battles just so I don't have to pop a health potion if I fall down a cliff. I could drop the resto staff and would not lose any power at all.

Tankqull · February 2015

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Wait, Nightblades have an instant self heal? Also didn't other stuff get buffed recently?[/b]

I ask this legitimately, I'm in need of enlightenment on sorc damage

jep the second their enemy dies

~80% heal then instantly.

xherics · February 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs are incredibly overpowered on PTS right now....If anything they need a nerf

Go and WASH your mouth mate!

xherics · February 2015

We asked for buff and you gave us a minor-little buff, and huge nerfed our negate

Why? @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

asteldian · February 2015

Hardened ward is pretty damn powerful, frags heals for 1600 everytime it is used (based on 20k hp). A crushing shock build offers high damage, instant cast frag heals to go with the ward. Sorcs are far from a bad place, add in the bonus from surge for a bit more healing and I would say Sorc is in a much better place than NB for surviving.

As for templars having 'a whole tree' for healing, that would be great if it were not for the fact that just one of those skills in the entire line are actually worth using for heals. So they have a burst heal. DK has a burst heal too which is 30% of lost health, which for personal survivability makes it superior to Templars withtheir dedicated healing tree. Ironically Templars main survival comes from a skill not even in the healing tree.

Sorc has not got a burst heal, but over the course of a fight will likely heal even more than a DK does, along with their ward they are pretty damn hardy

Derra · February 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Sorcs complain about no healing, others complain about Damage Shields with maxed out Magicka.

So give Sorcs good healing, and make all damage shields based of max health again.
A bit more resources would be good as well, at least let us gain CP faster. With it's resource pools my template didn't really have an option other than shield stacking, I haven't yet logged in PTS with my main, maybe it's different with her.

DMG shields on health would be the final nail in the coffin for sorcs. Make it that you can´t use two shields together so only the highest shield gets applied.

Derra · February 2015

xherics wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs are incredibly overpowered on PTS right now....If anything they need a nerf

Go and WASH your mouth mate!

Does sorc still have dps issues in pve? Atleast magica based it is fine for pvp in my opinion.
Can´t comment on pve though. The surge healing seems fine from my perspective but i´m killing a pack of wasps just with mines and degeneration...

Saint_JiubB14_ESO · February 2015

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Anybody who thinks Crit Surge got "buffed" in 1.6.1 with the 0.25 second cooldown needs a reality check. AOE attacks still don't generate NEARLY as much healing per second as they used to:

I'm only seeing 5-10% of DPS returned as HPS, so that means even wasps and random hedge wizards are owning my *ss. My template build is VR14 with all the Aether gear, but of course Spell Crit itself is nerfed in 1.6, so that doesn't help as much as it should.

For comparison, my sorc's average HPS is about 40% of DPS on 1.5.7. ZoS needs to fix this before sorcs just give up and re-roll...

PLEASE get rid of the cooldown that NO ONE asked for!

I feel like this change was mainly a pvp change. A sorc streaking through a zerg would be unkillable if surge was left alone.

With that being said, a reliable self heal for sorcs would be nice.

I think that was their intention, but it is dumb. They have expressly stated they wanted to reduce stacking in PvP. They changed AoE caps, and added a skill that they referred to as a 'zerg buster' during its development. So there should be no concern for ZoS about unkillable sorcs, if players stack, they die. If they spread out, which is the intended result of many changes, no unkillable sorcs. If the changes to PvP have the desired result, then there is no need for any cooldown on Surge, since good PvP will require players to spread out. And if they don't have the desired result, then you'll just have unkillable sorcs and unkillable zergs, so who cares?

Please pass this along to the combat team @ZOS_GinaBruno

Seraphyel · February 2015

McDoogs wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

The real issue is or was to give Templars a full tree dedicated on healing. That totally destroys the balance of the game.

Give every class the skills to be an equal healer or no class - but to give a class a tree full of great heals and to give the crap to the resto staff is just dumb.

WTF is up with sorcerors crying about templars in every thread?

I don't play a Sorc, I am just interested in the discussion. And to deny that Templars are ridiculously OP with 1.6... sorry.

aco5712 wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

The real issue is or was to give Templars a full tree dedicated on healing. That totally destroys the balance of the game.

Give every class the skills to be an equal healer or no class - but to give a class a tree full of great heals and to give the crap to the resto staff is just dumb.

Why would you complain about a templar (who is the "healer" of this game) having a tree dedicated to healing. It does not destroy the balance of the game as they have less options for CC/DPS. And honestly, with the nerf to mending, templars healing is alot worse.

Rune focus + ritual are pretty poor skills anyways.

That's the problem, there shouldn't be "the" healer of the game. That's the issue with it.

Ritual isn't a poor skill. But it doesn't matter, Ceremony outweighs every other heal out there. And it's a Templar skill.

daemonios · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

xherics wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs are incredibly overpowered on PTS right now....If anything they need a nerf

Go and WASH your mouth mate!

Does sorc still have dps issues in pve? Atleast magica based it is fine for pvp in my opinion.
Can´t comment on pve though. The surge healing seems fine from my perspective but i´m killing a pack of wasps just with mines and degeneration...

I haven't tested as much as I'd like (only got my actual character on PTS yesterday) but for the time being, I'm having trouble getting to 6k DPS single-target, which apparently is on the low side. Still have to research alternative builds given the changes from 1.6. One thing I can say is that while I have 57% spell crit on live (without the Aether set), I now can't even reach 40% *with* the Aether set on PTS.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

The real issue is or was to give Templars a full tree dedicated on healing. That totally destroys the balance of the game.

Give every class the skills to be an equal healer or no class - but to give a class a tree full of great heals and to give the crap to the resto staff is just dumb.

WTF is up with sorcerors crying about templars in every thread?

I don't play a Sorc, I am just interested in the discussion. And to deny that Templars are ridiculously OP with 1.6... sorry.

aco5712 wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

The real issue is or was to give Templars a full tree dedicated on healing. That totally destroys the balance of the game.

Give every class the skills to be an equal healer or no class - but to give a class a tree full of great heals and to give the crap to the resto staff is just dumb.

Why would you complain about a templar (who is the "healer" of this game) having a tree dedicated to healing. It does not destroy the balance of the game as they have less options for CC/DPS. And honestly, with the nerf to mending, templars healing is alot worse.

Rune focus + ritual are pretty poor skills anyways.

That's the problem, there shouldn't be "the" healer of the game. That's the issue with it.

GW2 shows the depths an MMO sinks in terms of coherent group content if all classes can do everything .. ESO doesn't need to go down that road any further.

I quite like GW2 but group play is entirely a zerg-fest where the requirement is simply kill the boss before it kills you, the game has no 'taunt' and everyone can do anything so grouping is largely a cluster-xxxx of chaos.

stevepdodson_ESO888 · February 2015

It does seem a bit odd that the one class that is really supposed to be about Magicka (a Sorc) cannot have a spell that heals themselves.

I am not saying they need a heal that works on allies, as that is the reason for the Templar skill tree, so this is not a plea to make them the group's healer.

Let's face it, if Merlin himself couldn't heal with his magic then King Arthur would have been looking for a new magician long before he sat down at his round table for dinner.

Maulkin · February 2015

Here's my 2c, from a PvP standpoint. Sorcs seem very strong 1.6.1

The damage output has had a significant increase especially compared to the reduced player health. If you catch someone off guard or they make a mistake you can burst them down much quicker then you could.

Damage shields compensate for the lack of reliable self healing. They are huge, they are stackable, they prevent ult-generation off you, they prevent crits, they are just awesome.

As for PvE, light-armor tanking via Crit Surge is no longer possible but tbh, I don't see that as problem. Outhealing all damage from 10+ mobs while also dealing huge damage, standing in the middle of it all, was just lazy gameplay. That gameplay has taken a nerf for all classes (look at NB VoB & Sap Essence)

I don't like the nerf to Negate (Absoption Field in particular) but I hated being a Negate-monkey equally. So, I'll shrug and move on. There's some little annoyances like the gcd on overload, or the dark exchange change that means you have to alt/block cancel it instead of just moving, but they are not big issues.

Solo roamers are just so powerful now. The mobility and ranged damage is superb, the survivability excellent. The class is in a good place, pvp-wise.

McDoogs · February 2015

Why do you need heals with hardened ward? I think these crybaby sorcerors need to L2P, because magicka sorcs are incredibly OP in PvP in 1.6.

Pyatra · February 2015

NA player here my Sorc DPS is off the hook. My DPS got a drill and took the hook down and then built me second house. Also I found that the new magicka bomb skill is 1 second longer that Daedric curse, throw an overload slow rolling light attack at distance and Mage's Fury and you have a burst pop that makes me feel just awesome.

Snit · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

DMG shields on health would be the final nail in the coffin for sorcs. Make it that you can´t use two shields together so only the highest shield gets applied.

I think this is the answer.

Joy_Division · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

That's the problem, there shouldn't be "the" healer of the game. That's the issue with it.

Then why do Templars have a skill tree devoted to healing? If that skill tree does not make us better healers, then it is useless.

It is one or the other. Fine, you don't think templars should be the best healer in the game, then replace the Restoring Light Tree.

Snit · February 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

As for PvE, light-armor tanking via Crit Surge is no longer possible but tbh, I don't see that as problem. Outhealing all damage from 10+ mobs while also dealing huge damage, standing in the middle of it all, was just lazy gameplay. That gameplay has taken a nerf for all classes (look at NB VoB & Sap Essence

I am coming around to your POV on this. I hate the loss of crit surge. My live char can solo Craglorn stuff, my test chars have severe difficulties with the same content.

But part of this is just a new playstyle, to which I need to adapt. Spamming Hardened Ward and better offensive use of Streak are the start. Maybe pets are part of the answer, too, but I've never liked pets and hope to avoid that. There is a bit of a L2P issue here.

And part of me likes the Negate nerf. It's garbage now, so I no longer feel obligated to carry it as an ultimate. Meteor, Atronach and Overload are all more fun

Digiman · February 2015

Wonder if that same numbers on damage will be the same when going live?

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

As for PvE, light-armor tanking via Crit Surge is no longer possible but tbh, I don't see that as problem. Outhealing all damage from 10+ mobs while also dealing huge damage, standing in the middle of it all, was just lazy gameplay. That gameplay has taken a nerf for all classes (look at NB VoB & Sap Essence)

Wasn't really lazy but more of a necessity, At most you could maybe hold off 4-5 mobs and standing still taking the damage was a sure fire way to get killed fast if you didn't get out of the rain of arrows or block a heavy hit.

But if what your saying about light armor is true, then the CD shouldn't be necessary on Surge at all. At the very least your going to be trading damage and healing through crits to shield stacking instead.

Seraphyel · February 2015

aco5712 wrote: »

Then why do Templars have a skill tree devoted to healing? If that skill tree does not make us better healers, then it is useless.

It is one or the other. Fine, you don't think templars should be the best healer in the game, then replace the Restoring Light Tree.

You did not understand the issue.

As I said, Zenimax wanted to open every role for every class. But still they dedicate an entire Templar tree for healing - that's against their ambition to make every class competitive in every position.

Sure with a healing tree Templars should be better healers, but exactly that's the problem: there shouldn't be a class-exclusive healing tree in game. And even if, it shouldn't have the only burst heals in the game in it.

McDoogs · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Then why do Templars have a skill tree devoted to healing? If that skill tree does not make us better healers, then it is useless.

It is one or the other. Fine, you don't think templars should be the best healer in the game, then replace the Restoring Light Tree.

You did not understand the issue.

As I said, Zenimax wanted to open every role for every class. But still they dedicate an entire Templar tree for healing - that's against their ambition to make every class competitive in every position.

Sure with a healing tree Templars should be better healers, but exactly that's the problem: there shouldn't be a class-exclusive healing tree in game. And even if, it shouldn't have the only burst heals in the game in it.

By that logic, NBs shouldn't have the shadow tree , Sorcerors shouldnt have the pet tree, dragon knights shouldnt have the earthen heart tree.....

Seraphyel · February 2015

McDoogs wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Then why do Templars have a skill tree devoted to healing? If that skill tree does not make us better healers, then it is useless.

It is one or the other. Fine, you don't think templars should be the best healer in the game, then replace the Restoring Light Tree.

You did not understand the issue.

As I said, Zenimax wanted to open every role for every class. But still they dedicate an entire Templar tree for healing - that's against their ambition to make every class competitive in every position.

Sure with a healing tree Templars should be better healers, but exactly that's the problem: there shouldn't be a class-exclusive healing tree in game. And even if, it shouldn't have the only burst heals in the game in it.

By that logic, NBs shouldn't have the shadow tree , Sorcerors shouldnt have the pet tree, dragon knights shouldnt have the earthen heart tree.....

And you didn't get it either.

It's about the three roles: DPS / Tank / Healer.

Everybody has skills for tanking and for DPS in their class trees, but only the Templar has an entire tree for healing, where other classes have 1 / 2 abilities or NOTHING.

That's the issue here.

Don't say you want to open up every role for every class when there is a huge difference.

ItsRejectz · February 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Sabre you definitely found a sweet spot for sorcs, but most haven't played you two hand style and will need time, if they go that route, on how to not suck doing it. Every sorc feels like zos took there car out for a spin and brought it back but didn't put the seat back where it was. Our builds that we have been playing for months now do not work at all anymore and we have no means to get new gear. But it seems you logged in and play as you always have and bam, you're like damn I'm f'ing beast now, why are all these sorcs complaining.

Edited for autospell.

aco5712 wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Id rather have a class shield then stupid HoTs (NB speaking)

sorc is ridiculously OP in 1.6. Crushing shock builds are wrecking face. They are extremely hard to fight coz the amount of pressure they put on you is absurd.

Crushing shock is not a sorcerer skill.. Any class can use crushing shock.

i said crushing shock builds. Your frag is very powerful when insta cast, which is procced super easy with crushing shock. Vel curse packs a bunch also. You can easy burst for 10-15k in a second if you timed it right.

Regardless, read the other sorcerer topic. The main issue sorcerers have is the necessity to run Resto staff for survivability. All the other classes in the game have extremely good survivability without resto and still have stupidly high dps.

Look at all the PvP 1vX videos of Templars,Dragon knights and nightblades recently. Then try and find a single video of a sorcerer doing it within the last 4 months... None, says it all really

Apart from gankers, nearly every NB runs a resto. Now with vigor, all stam NBs run vigor but before that we had the same problem you have. Most NBs will still run a resto post 1.6 because they might not be stam. You cant honestly thing that swallow soul is enough healing to sustain against more then one person.

You cant say just because people dont upload 1vX videos that sorc 1vX doesnt happen.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eso+pvp+sorcerer+1vX&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

Oh look, 1vX sorc videos from a week ago....

I'm guessing you didn't watch that video?
1vX means fighting more than one player at once. Nearly all the footage in that video is 1v1...

So, my initial post still stands. Find a video from 1.5 or 1.6 where a sorcerer is taking on 2-3-4 players at the same time, just like templar nightblades and dk's can and I'll shut up.
But you won't, because there are none

Tankqull · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

Then why do Templars have a skill tree devoted to healing? If that skill tree does not make us better healers, then it is useless.

It is one or the other. Fine, you don't think templars should be the best healer in the game, then replace the Restoring Light Tree.

You did not understand the issue.

As I said, Zenimax wanted to open every role for every class. But still they dedicate an entire Templar tree for healing - that's against their ambition to make every class competitive in every position.

Sure with a healing tree Templars should be better healers, but exactly that's the problem: there shouldn't be a class-exclusive healing tree in game. And even if, it shouldn't have the only burst heals in the game in it.

By that logic, NBs shouldn't have the shadow tree , Sorcerors shouldnt have the pet tree, dragon knights shouldnt have the earthen heart tree.....

And you didn't get it either.

It's about the three roles: DPS / Tank / Healer.

Everybody has skills for tanking and for DPS in their class trees, but only the Templar has an entire tree for healing, where other classes have 1 / 2 abilities or NOTHING.

That's the issue here.

Don't say you want to open up every role for every class when there is a huge difference.

you should actually look into your so called healing tree.
it contains 3 heals.
1 heal ulti with harsh restrictions
1 usefull heal consuming tons of mana (wich can be easily substituted by healing ward or ward ally wich i prefer in pve)
1 compleatly useless heal thx to its mechanic
and 3 utility skills with a "non" existing healingoutput/increasement since 1.6.

in exchange they have the worst dps, and are now only an average tank.

eliisra · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

It's about the three roles: DPS / Tank / Healer.

Everybody has skills for tanking and for DPS in their class trees, but only the Templar has an entire tree for healing, where other classes have 1 / 2 abilities or NOTHING.

Not really some exclusive templar heal issue. I dont have any of those amazing "skills for tanking" on my sorc either.

Way easier to tank on my DK, because I have actual skills designed for it. Chains to pull all the ranged adds in, Talons to keep them in place and rooted, strong AoE to leech, cc and keep poking, GDB - the only powerful self heal for a tank in the entire game, block passives, passives for stamina return and so on.

Than there's the dps role. Only sorcerer skills that's actually worth slotting on live is Surge and Mage's Fury

But I sort of agree with you. I dont think roles should define classes either. There should rather be unique skills and synergies, that makes classes sought after or stand out. No class should have better qualifications filling certain roles.