I don't get the change to b2p hubub

stewhead2ub17_ESO · January 2015

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

Breg_Magol · January 2015

I'm think the same way about this.

Ourorboros · January 2015

NOBODY 'knows' jack. Speculation is just that. I agree with OP. In any case, if naysayers are unhappy, they can unsub. I'm subbed til May, guess I'll at least give it that long.
I think the forum anonymity allows disappointed people to express themselves more negatively than they might do otherwise. So many negative threads. ESO is still far from dead, guys.

Drasn · January 2015

Let me help some:

They are selling soulgems in the cash shop. Wait, how is that a bad thing? Soulgems are to come by... for now. Soul gems will disappear from loot tables and merchants after a while and only be available from the cash shop so if you want them better have some crowns.

The xp boost you get from having a sub? They are most likely gonna have a crown pot for that and all the other bonuses you think you have.

The thing about a cash shop is that they have to make money from it, meaning it has to have items in it that people want to buy. If it is just as easy to come by these items in-game then no one would use the cash shop, meaning no new revenue.

They will start with cosmetic and low convenience first and when that doesn't provide acceptable cash flow better items will be added. These items will keep getting better and better to keep the cash coming in.

More resources will be focused on cash shop items instead of actual content because a stagnant cash shop means less money.

ZoS or whoever is pulling their strings has already played their cards and shown than money > customer satisfaction.

tldr: the age of the CC warriors is soon to be upon us.

grimjim398 · January 2015

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

What you really mean is you don't agree that people should be upset about it because they should only be upset about things when you are upset about them, too. I also pay for what I enjoy and I am moving on, as soon as my subscription expires in 12 more days and after I delete the rest of my characters. Good luck to you, too. Try to avoid the dim side of the Force.

stewhead2ub17_ESO · January 2015

grimjim398 wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

What you really mean is you don't agree that people should be upset about it because they should only be upset about things when you are upset about them, too. I also pay for what I enjoy and I am moving on, as soon as my subscription expires in 12 more days and after I delete the rest of my characters. Good luck to you, too. Try to avoid the dim side of the Force.

No what I really mean is what I said. It's pretty simple. You pay for a sub now. If you continue to pay for a sub you are not worse off than you are now. People can get upset all they want.

Timaios · January 2015

If people are really this unhappy with this B2P announcement then quit playing the game and find something else. B2P is not going anywhere, they are not going to change their minds and the fact that the quotes that people are throwing out there contridict the direction ZOS is now taking ESO doesn't change anything. Yes in a way you can say they lied but this B2P does make sense from a Console perspective since it would be unreasonable to make console players pay a game sub on top of PS plus fees and whatever the Xbox equivalent is. If you really think about it you would or should have seen this coming.

Like people have stated if you plan on staying subbed nothing will change for you guys. The raging going on around these forums is just ludicrous, it's like listening to pre teens bitching to their parents that life isn't fair. It's really this simple if you don't like the direction ZOS is going in, take your money elsewhere. There really is no point getting bent out of shape about it, life really is just to short.

AoEnwyr · January 2015

Timaios wrote: »

If people are really this unhappy with this B2P announcement then quit playing the game and find something else. B2P is not going anywhere, they are not going to change their minds and the fact that the quotes that people are throwing out there contridict the direction ZOS is now taking ESO doesn't change anything. Yes in a way you can say they lied but this B2P does make sense from a Console perspective since it would be unreasonable to make console players pay a game sub on top of PS plus fees and whatever the Xbox equivalent is. If you really think about it you would or should have seen this coming.

Like people have stated if you plan on staying subbed nothing will change for you guys. The raging going on around these forums is just ludicrous, it's like listening to pre teens bitching to their parents that life isn't fair. It's really this simple if you don't like the direction ZOS is going in, take your money elsewhere. There really is no point getting bent out of shape about it, life really is just to short.

I agree. Until we see it in action no one actually knows, and even then, if you don't like it, don't play it.

I have seen f2p conversions go quite well. Defiance went f2p, and even with a cash shop the game never went p2w. The cash shop was actually quite unintrusive.

Darlantan · January 2015

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Let me help some:

They are selling soulgems in the cash shop. Wait, how is that a bad thing? Soulgems are to come by... for now. Soul gems will disappear from loot tables and merchants after a while and only be available from the cash shop so if you want them better have some crowns.

The xp boost you get from having a sub? They are most likely gonna have a crown pot for that and all the other bonuses you think you have.

The thing about a cash shop is that they have to make money from it, meaning it has to have items in it that people want to buy. If it is just as easy to come by these items in-game then no one would use the cash shop, meaning no new revenue.

They will start with cosmetic and low convenience first and when that doesn't provide acceptable cash flow better items will be added. These items will keep getting better and better to keep the cash coming in.

More resources will be focused on cash shop items instead of actual content because a stagnant cash shop means less money.

ZoS or whoever is pulling their strings has already played their cards and shown than money > customer satisfaction.

tldr: the age of the CC warriors is soon to be upon us.

got all the from your crystall ball?

xtago · January 2015

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

B2P is really F2P.

F2P really means you have to buy stuff to get anywhere further in the game, once the first lot of "DLC" comes out then people will either buy it or drop the game.

Because if they can't afford the box, and/or can't afford the $15 for the sub then what makes Zenimax and the F2P crowd, think people are going to suddenly afford to buy the DLC?

As for the DLC, it's been the exact same stuff talked about being released, before the game came out, Zenimax was saying they were going to release it, around 1 to 2 months after the game launch.

The exact same DLC/content has been talked about being released in the 2 to 5 updates, yet never happened, as every update was meant to happen every month and was to add a whole new part of the map to play in.

Now we get a console release that includes the update 6 update, so instead of a Feb release date it's been held back for a June 2015 release.

The update 6 is the Championship System points, the justice/Criminal skill lines and that's it for brand new content.

PC users are being begged to play the PTS, so they can sort out all the bugs in the update 6 content, Yet people in the closed beta tests have said Zenimax never fixed up any of the bugs before release, which has caused all the hold ups over the last 10+ months with bug fixes and other minor updates to skills etc.

Also Update 6 which up to December 2014 was a 3 stage content upgrade path, now that's changed to being a console release, and no idea if it's the full changed skill lines or if it's staying as a 3 stage update path, to which console players will have to play through to work out all the altered skill sets for the 3+ months after the console release.

All the "DLC" (old paid sub, free content) has been turned into pay for content, with the exact same videos run over and over, for atleast 12+ months with casual updates about it, the last one was at Quakecon 2014 that was 7 months ago almost 8 months ago in 1 week.

All that content was meant to be released already in the first 6 months, yet never seen the light of day. even though it's been talked about like it going to be out next week.

The current update 6 was slated for a 2nd January 2015 release on PTS, this has been held back and you now see the results of what's been done.

Also for me all the content in this crown store has no point in buying, If you get the Imperial pack add-on you can buy a mount for 1 gold coin in game, then Zenimax want people to pay real money for a skin to put on that horse?

Also the money amounts haven't been talked about 1,500 crowns might not be all that much and you need to keep in mind, if $15 is 1,500 crowns then people might need to drop $15 real money at the minimum to get anything, with or without a sub.

And we all know how many people don't have $15 already.

asteldian · January 2015

1500 will be about $5 based on previous games.
Also, previous games is why people are in uproar about B2P. You do not need to see the future to know what happens, you simply have to look to the past. As they say, time flows like a river and history repeats.
Now, I am not all doom and gloom myself purely because this is different to the previous games that do this. Other games did this after they were dying in an attempt to hold on. If this was PC only then I would have no doubt things go downhill, but with console release and how popular skyrim was, now that there is no sub, the sales potential is huge, and if it goes to plan they have crazy amounts of money coming in and again every DLC, at which point cash shop is just a side bonus and not the only thing keeping the game alive.
If it goes badly though, then pack up coz it will end like every other conversion to B2P or F2P

Valorin · January 2015

It's a game and a community. It's about having fun. Together. Everything else is just narcissism.

Bloodfang · January 2015

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

Agree with everything you've said.

Also players don't understand a few others things:

- ESO is not going F2P
- ESO wont be a 100% B2P either. It will be a hybrid P2P/B2P.
- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this hybrid model is the first in the MMO industry.

- Base game + 6 updates = B2P
- Update 7 and on = P2P

- Cash Shop won't be P2W
- Subbed people will be getting everything from the Cash Shop for "free" eventually anyway -> via crowns (if you'll play long enough).

The only things which is changing for subscribers is getting the vanity stuff for staying subbed (you know like for free).

I just want to say I have nothing against the ESO Plus membership, it will be a much better deal than what we currently have.

However why are things that were added and will be during Update 1-6 not DLCs? Things like:

- Craglorn
- All 3 Trials
- Dragonstar Arena
- Veteran Crypt of Hearts and Veteran City of Ash etc

Iago · January 2015

Bloodfang wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

Agree with everything you've said.

Also players don't understand a few others things:

- ESO is not going F2P
- ESO wont be a 100% B2P either. It will be a hybrid P2P/B2P.
- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this hybrid model is the first in the MMO industry.

- Base game + 6 updates = B2P
- Update 7 and on = P2P

- Cash Shop won't be P2W
- Subbed people will be getting everything from the Cash Shop for "free" eventually anyway -> via crowns (if you'll play long enough).

The only things which is changing for subscribers is getting the vanity stuff for staying subbed (you know like for free).

It's true Zos did say that their cash shop would not be pay to win And they also said They had no plans of ever going by to play or free to play.

Oh wait they lied about the second one So I'm guessing the cash office going to go pay to win too.

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

Bloodfang wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

Agree with everything you've said.

Also players don't understand a few others things:

- ESO is not going F2P
- ESO wont be a 100% B2P either. It will be a hybrid P2P/B2P.
- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this hybrid model is the first in the MMO industry.

- Base game + 6 updates = B2P
- Update 7 and on = P2P

- Cash Shop won't be P2W
- Subbed people will be getting everything from the Cash Shop for "free" eventually anyway -> via crowns (if you'll play long enough).

The only things which is changing for subscribers is getting the vanity stuff for staying subbed (you know like for free).

I just want to say I have nothing against the ESO Plus membership, it will be a much better deal than what we currently have.

However why are things that were added and will be during Update 1-6 not DLCs? Things like:

- Craglorn
- All 3 Trials
- Dragonstar Arena
- Veteran Crypt of Hearts and Veteran City of Ash etc

Your wrong... and right... Many game decided to go this model but ALL got F2P in a few months when they sell the first few months of boxes... Huge spike in revenue and the only way to make money... cash shop...

LoTRO was 100% like this and everyone said it was going to be fine....

Bloodfang · January 2015

.

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

Agree with everything you've said.

Also players don't understand a few others things:

- ESO is not going F2P
- ESO wont be a 100% B2P either. It will be a hybrid P2P/B2P.
- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this hybrid model is the first in the MMO industry.

- Base game + 6 updates = B2P
- Update 7 and on = P2P

- Cash Shop won't be P2W
- Subbed people will be getting everything from the Cash Shop for "free" eventually anyway -> via crowns (if you'll play long enough).

The only things which is changing for subscribers is getting the vanity stuff for staying subbed (you know like for free).

I just want to say I have nothing against the ESO Plus membership, it will be a much better deal than what we currently have.

However why are things that were added and will be during Update 1-6 not DLCs? Things like:

- Craglorn
- All 3 Trials
- Dragonstar Arena
- Veteran Crypt of Hearts and Veteran City of Ash etc

Your wrong... and right... Many game decided to go this model but ALL got F2P in a few months when they sell the first few months of boxes... Huge spike in revenue and the only way to make money... cash shop...

LoTRO was 100% like this and everyone said it was going to be fine....

The first big difference is Lotro never went B2P, meaning Lotro was doomed right from the start othervise they wouldn't go that low to switch right to F2P.

Also Lotro had very early from the launch - quest packs, I mean seriously. You can't even compare how Lotro transition was terrible right from the start.

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

Bloodfang wrote: »

.

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

Agree with everything you've said.

Also players don't understand a few others things:

- ESO is not going F2P
- ESO wont be a 100% B2P either. It will be a hybrid P2P/B2P.
- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this hybrid model is the first in the MMO industry.

- Base game + 6 updates = B2P
- Update 7 and on = P2P

- Cash Shop won't be P2W
- Subbed people will be getting everything from the Cash Shop for "free" eventually anyway -> via crowns (if you'll play long enough).

The only things which is changing for subscribers is getting the vanity stuff for staying subbed (you know like for free).

I just want to say I have nothing against the ESO Plus membership, it will be a much better deal than what we currently have.

However why are things that were added and will be during Update 1-6 not DLCs? Things like:

- Craglorn
- All 3 Trials
- Dragonstar Arena
- Veteran Crypt of Hearts and Veteran City of Ash etc

Your wrong... and right... Many game decided to go this model but ALL got F2P in a few months when they sell the first few months of boxes... Huge spike in revenue and the only way to make money... cash shop...

LoTRO was 100% like this and everyone said it was going to be fine....

The first big difference is Lotro never went B2P, meaning Lotro was doomed right from the start othervise they wouldn't go that low to switch right to F2P.

Also Lotro had very early from the launch - quest packs, I mean seriously. You can't even compare how Lotro transition was terrible right from the start.

It was a P2P model then it went F2P, the only difference between ESO and LoTRO is that ESO wants to pillage the console users of their money by making them by a box. LoTRO was going a lot longer as P2P before they went F2P. Everyone knows that as soon as the B part of B2P is withered out on consoles they will switch to a bigger cash shop and become F2P.

They are not stupid people will still buy the box for a F2P game (at the start).

Bloodfang · January 2015

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

.

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

Agree with everything you've said.

Also players don't understand a few others things:

- ESO is not going F2P
- ESO wont be a 100% B2P either. It will be a hybrid P2P/B2P.
- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this hybrid model is the first in the MMO industry.

- Base game + 6 updates = B2P
- Update 7 and on = P2P

- Cash Shop won't be P2W
- Subbed people will be getting everything from the Cash Shop for "free" eventually anyway -> via crowns (if you'll play long enough).

The only things which is changing for subscribers is getting the vanity stuff for staying subbed (you know like for free).

I just want to say I have nothing against the ESO Plus membership, it will be a much better deal than what we currently have.

However why are things that were added and will be during Update 1-6 not DLCs? Things like:

- Craglorn
- All 3 Trials
- Dragonstar Arena
- Veteran Crypt of Hearts and Veteran City of Ash etc

Your wrong... and right... Many game decided to go this model but ALL got F2P in a few months when they sell the first few months of boxes... Huge spike in revenue and the only way to make money... cash shop...

LoTRO was 100% like this and everyone said it was going to be fine....

The first big difference is Lotro never went B2P, meaning Lotro was doomed right from the start othervise they wouldn't go that low to switch right to F2P.

Also Lotro had very early from the launch - quest packs, I mean seriously. You can't even compare how Lotro transition was terrible right from the start.

It was a P2P model then it went F2P, the only difference between ESO and LoTRO is that ESO wants to pillage the console users of their money by making them by a box. LoTRO was going a lot longer as P2P before they went F2P. Everyone knows that as soon as the B part of B2P is withered out on consoles they will switch to a bigger cash shop and become F2P.

They are not stupid people will still buy the box for a F2P game (at the start).

You might be right or wrong, time will tell.

However atm I'm pretty sure the sub number will stay very high due to DLCs.
It was something common with Skyrim, no idea why it wouldn't work well on consoles again. Also I'm pretty sure people are not that dumb to spend 20-30€ monthly on a DLC, they'll rather sub.

SWTOR has the worst F2P in history, so very limiting. Yet they have 500k subs, so they aren't doing that bad after all. Especially for a F2P game.

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

Bloodfang wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

.

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

I really don't understand all the moaning and blustering. I plan on continuing to sub. I will be no worse off after the transition (actually I'll be a little better with the rewards). Contrary to what many confused individuals think, the game is not going ftp, though that wouldn't affect me either. I pay for what I enjoy. If it's not fun anymore than I move on. Good luck all

Agree with everything you've said.

Also players don't understand a few others things:

- ESO is not going F2P
- ESO wont be a 100% B2P either. It will be a hybrid P2P/B2P.
- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this hybrid model is the first in the MMO industry.

- Base game + 6 updates = B2P
- Update 7 and on = P2P

- Cash Shop won't be P2W
- Subbed people will be getting everything from the Cash Shop for "free" eventually anyway -> via crowns (if you'll play long enough).

The only things which is changing for subscribers is getting the vanity stuff for staying subbed (you know like for free).

I just want to say I have nothing against the ESO Plus membership, it will be a much better deal than what we currently have.

However why are things that were added and will be during Update 1-6 not DLCs? Things like:

- Craglorn
- All 3 Trials
- Dragonstar Arena
- Veteran Crypt of Hearts and Veteran City of Ash etc

Your wrong... and right... Many game decided to go this model but ALL got F2P in a few months when they sell the first few months of boxes... Huge spike in revenue and the only way to make money... cash shop...

LoTRO was 100% like this and everyone said it was going to be fine....

The first big difference is Lotro never went B2P, meaning Lotro was doomed right from the start othervise they wouldn't go that low to switch right to F2P.

Also Lotro had very early from the launch - quest packs, I mean seriously. You can't even compare how Lotro transition was terrible right from the start.

It was a P2P model then it went F2P, the only difference between ESO and LoTRO is that ESO wants to pillage the console users of their money by making them by a box. LoTRO was going a lot longer as P2P before they went F2P. Everyone knows that as soon as the B part of B2P is withered out on consoles they will switch to a bigger cash shop and become F2P.

They are not stupid people will still buy the box for a F2P game (at the start).

You might be right or wrong, time will tell.

However atm I'm pretty sure the sub number will stay very high due to DLCs.
It was something common with Skyrim, no idea why it wouldn't work well on consoles again. Also I'm pretty sure people are not that dumb to spend 20-30€ monthly on a DLC, they'll rather sub.

How much DLC can they bring out? I mean do you think they are going to bring DLC every month? Plus users are going to pay $15 a month say it takes 3 months for DLC that is $45 and because you can buy it with crowns (official FAQs) it is cheaper to just buy the DLC, the 10% bonus and a few extra crowns a month will not cut it for people to sub. This is what happened on LoTRO the first 2 or 3 DLC people subbed then they found ways to get so many "coins" / crowns that they unsub and buy everything.

Its true time will tell but every game who goes this way always end up needing to make money quickly after the initial rush of box buyers.

Also dont get me wrong I'm a huge ESO fan and will be a plus member just like I was in LoRTO, but if they dont bring out DLC fast enough and the game is super buggy I will go F2P and start looking for a new game.

Bloodfang · January 2015

@Amsel_McKay‌

I'm counting on that 4-6 weeks schedule

Seriously though I think they developed hell of a lot content already..Imperial City was for sure finished at least 6 months ago..
Just a matter of time before they start releasing them as a DLC..

Road Ahead should be up in a few days, perhaps they'll tell us how much DLCs will cost. And how often can we expect them.

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

Bloodfang wrote: »

@Amsel_McKay‌

I'm counting on that 4-6 weeks schedule

Seriously though I think they developed hell of a lot content already..Imperial City was for sure finished at least 6 months ago..
Just a matter of time before they start releasing them as a DLC..

Road Ahead should be up in a few days, perhaps they'll tell us how much DLCs will cost. And how often can we expect them.

I guess I have no faith in them bring out content that fast when they have game breaking bugs that take them months to figure out (The bank loss bug, that I never got repaid for) Classes still have broken abilities and even without ant addons need to /reloadui on quests... and the new crafting bugs. 4-6 weeks for REAL content wont happen unless the add 8times the staff they have now... and remember the content now will have to work on PC and consoles.

Wizzo91 · January 2015

You people still don't get it, do you?

At initial release the system seems fair and not p2w. But wait 6-12 months, after most box sales and when they notice that revenue is not high enough? They will slowly start adding more and more p2w items.

In the last months you should of noticed that zos was never honest with us, B2P was in the planning for AT LEAST 3 months. Maybe even since release. They clearly lied to us multiple times. So why trust them on the Cashshop? They will tell you now, it won't be p2w so they can milk you until it changes.

The next point is, that content will come a lot slower. Why do you think 1.6 was so late? Because of the new model and the development for REAL content will continue to slow down, because of the focus on the cashshop.

I just hope most players will not buy EXTRA crowns. Just stay subscribed, spend your crowns and be done with the casshop. If people start dumping money into the cashshop they will start adding more and more bs.

Amsel_McKay · January 2015

Wizzo91 wrote: »

You people still don't get it, do you?

At initial release the system seems fair and not p2w. But wait 6-12 months, after most box sales and when they notice that revenue is not high enough? They will slowly start adding more and more p2w items.

In the last months you should of noticed that zos was never honest with us, B2P was in the planning for AT LEAST 3 months. Maybe even since release. They clearly lied to us multiple times. So why trust them on the Cashshop? They will tell you now, it won't be p2w so they can milk you until it changes.

The next point is, that content will come a lot slower. Why do you think 1.6 was so late? Because of the new model and the development for REAL content will continue to slow down, because of the focus on the cashshop.

I just hope most players will not buy EXTRA crowns. Just stay subscribed, spend your crowns and be done with the casshop. If people start dumping money into the cashshop they will start adding more and more bs.

They have a panther pet and mount... sorry but people are going to spend in the cashshop... The mounts are already better (more capacity, speed etc). Also non-plus members will buy the 10% exp bonus when leveling.

Darlantan · January 2015

Wizzo91 wrote: »

You people still don't get it, do you?

At initial release the system seems fair and not p2w. But wait 6-12 months, after most box sales and when they notice that revenue is not high enough? They will slowly start adding more and more p2w items.

In the last months you should of noticed that zos was never honest with us, B2P was in the planning for AT LEAST 3 months. Maybe even since release. They clearly lied to us multiple times. So why trust them on the Cashshop? They will tell you now, it won't be p2w so they can milk you until it changes.

The next point is, that content will come a lot slower. Why do you think 1.6 was so late? Because of the new model and the development for REAL content will continue to slow down, because of the focus on the cashshop.

I just hope most players will not buy EXTRA crowns. Just stay subscribed, spend your crowns and be done with the casshop. If people start dumping money into the cashshop they will start adding more and more bs.

People where saying the same thing for lots of game like STO and it's still there after 4 years. Neverwinter is still there and expanding to the x-box...

In fact when UO came out people say the game would be dead in a few month.... That was 17 years ago.

Septimus_Magna · January 2015

I dont think the B2P system will change much for the first couple of months for people who play regularly and have reached end game content. You can get some vanity stuff, which you may like or not but in either case it will have no negative influence on the game play itself.

I do see a problem in the long term, subbing ensures for a steady player base because it takes dedication to pay a monthly sub. This dedication will also make the players more skillful and knowledgeable about the game's mechanics. But when this changes there will be more casual players, nothing wrong with them but it will be a lot harder to find a decent group. If you have a bad group end game pve content will probably be too hard and very frustrating. I really dont want end game pve content to become even easier to do because there're so many bad groups.

The thing Im wondering about, what if I stop subbing and want to play a DLC? Can I buy it separately for $10-20 and have unlimited access to the content? If you can buy DLC separately I really think a lot of player (who dont care for vanity stuff) will stop subbing and still enjoy the game the way they used to. Only at lower price per month.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · January 2015

In short:
There are no f2p games that ever gained from the change.
B2p is just a variant of f2p that makes you pay upfront for the right of having access to the cash shop. They still need to make up for the loss of subs.
They iremediably all become shadows of themselves as the devs focus on breaking the game in order to sell fixes on the cash store.

You do not need a crystal ball to know that this is what will happen to ESO too.
All you need is an history book.

The only advantage there is for the devs is a quick cash influx, especially with the console sales, but overtime the game makes less money than a proper subscription MMO.

Flynch · January 2015

Now that my initial knee-jerk reaction is over with, i'm kind of ok with the B2P principle. But the B2P isn't really the issue.

If the cash shop remains cosmetic only (with a few boosters etc which is fine imo)

and

If the development of the game is focussed on playable content rather than content exclusively for the cash-shop

Then things will be ok. But the problem i'm having is simply believing this is the case as it's clear that the word of ZOS isn't exactly trustworthy.

Time will tell I guess.

RSram · January 2015

So here's my conclusion:

1) The frequency of new DLC content will determine whether it is viable to continue a subscription. I'm currently spending $180 a year to play ESO so if the cost per year in buying DLC content is less the $180, then it makes no sense to continue a subscription. Do the math!

2) I doubt that the developers could create more than one DLC every three months. If I am right then that's four DLC's per year. This would mean ZOS would have to charge above $45 dollars per DLC content to make it worthwhile to keep a subscription. That's close to the $60 box price of the game. If the DLC content sells for $15 to $20 as some have suggested than they will start losing subscription IMO.

3) So when ZOS starts to lose subscriptions, they will need to sell items in the cash shop, that every player wants that is B2W items, to make money in between the DLC releases.

facemace · January 2015

Well, those who buy all DLC will always be paying less than subs. It is a skimme fact, if they can't afford a sub they can't afford DLC, do you have to make the DLC cheaper. DDO has had the EXACT same hydrid system for many years, and the only reason they have any subs is because of "trial" players and character slots.

asteldian · January 2015

You are forgetting the key element of consoles. Yes, currently they make $180 a year per person, but in reality there are likely only 300k subs by now. That is $54M a year.
By going B2P they really open up the console market. 11M+ played skyrim, I find it hard to believe none of them will try ESO. Lets say just 2M buy and stick with the game. At $50 a box that is $100M initial sales. Almost double an entire year of current rate.
Lets assume PC numbers go to 500k due to no more sub and assume no one subs.
Total population 2.5M. Lets say 3 DLC a year (a more seensible rate than last year which was too fast). Lets sell them at just $15 each.
$25M per DLC. $117M a year.
That is already over twice the amount more a year with new model and assumes a cheap DLC and very small % of console skyrim players.
That is before you even consider the cash shop which at this point only needs to sell fluff as it is not the primary money maker.
In summary, whether or not B2P ruins the game is all down to console success.

Bloodfang · January 2015

.

asteldian wrote: »

You are forgetting the key element of consoles. Yes, currently they make $180 a year per person, but in reality there are likely only 300k subs by now. That is $54M a year.
By going B2P they really open up the console market. 11M+ played skyrim, I find it hard to believe none of them will try ESO. Lets say just 2M buy and stick with the game. At $50 a box that is $100M initial sales. Almost double an entire year of current rate.
Lets assume PC numbers go to 500k due to no more sub and assume no one subs.
Total population 2.5M. Lets say 3 DLC a year (a more seensible rate than last year which was too fast). Lets sell them at just $15 each.
$25M per DLC. $117M a year.
That is already over twice the amount more a year with new model and assumes a cheap DLC and very small % of console skyrim players.
That is before you even consider the cash shop which at this point only needs to sell fluff as it is not the primary money maker.
In summary, whether or not B2P ruins the game is all down to console success.

Skyrim was sold to:

~18mil players on Consoles
~3mil players on PC