I'm sorry

ashlee17

Zos needs people like the op in their PR department. Honest, forthcoming and thoughtful.
Tells it like it is.

Zenimax- take notes.

Glad you can join us in tamriel OP, but I wish it were under better circumstances.

Harleyquincey

@Danikat‌
First of all - thank you for the well-written topic. Honestly, I have rarely seen such a thought-out thread within the last months. Now however to your concerns.

it was not you who made this happen and I also do not see the future as grim as some might do, quite on the contrary. Maybe this is due to having experienced a very good transition of this sort which, apparently, is the exception to the rule. I can not help but tell you that while some of the community may be torn apart by the most recent news it is not all that bad everywhere. I am a member of three wonderful guilds and only very few have considered leaving due to these announcements. This includes a guild consisting of my friends, a very lovely and immensely successful trade guild and my most recent home, a progression guild that actually is not elitist and still performs well. As you can see from this, people are quite diverse in these guilds and still.. the general opinion so far is usually either "let's see what happens" or "I'll stay anyways".

Sure, this is definitely not true for other guilds, I'm well aware. But honestly.. those players will be replaced, just as I would be if I left. There is some humility in realizing one is part of something much larger, of a community. And with that I return to the initial statement: it is not you who made this happen. It is as it is and will be as it will be. Times, they are a changing and the subscription model is surely on its dying breath.

The question remains: how does a company tackle such a delicate situation? Zenimax surely has made mistakes in handling this, but I would never go as far as to say "they lied to us" with the sole exception of the 6-month-subscription-removal-announcement (sorry, at that point it must have been decided and frankly, that was a very bad move and there is something to learn from it for Zenimax). Besides that one issue, things simply have changed over the course of action, the same is true for everyday life as well. I can vow a lot of things today I could have to do nevertheless in a year's course, like "I will never cut my hair" and then boom! Job offer for 300k/yr but only if I shave the mane off.
That's how life is. It's not solid, it's fluid.

So, coming back to the topic again - do not let this deny you the fun this game is. Even those, no, especially those who are so very vocal now do care a great matter for the game, else they would not be so vocal. I may not agree with most of them (and especially not with the angsty feel of entitlement that is so common these days) but me? I do welcome you.

Just go ahead, join the merry lot and don't let the haters get to you. Haters gonna hate, whiners gonna whine and quitters gonna quit. It's all about how you tackle it for you, yourself and yours alone. You will find many fellow players here, most of which are wonderful, some of which are hilarious and few of them which I wish a never-too-early goodbye. Who's who is up to your own definition

wraith808

Gix wrote: »

You asked why some believed they were lied to. They didn't come to knock on my door to personally slap my money across my face but the explanation is simple: because people who spend money expect something of value in return. If you pay for something and you're not satisfied the product and you, then, find out that what you've been paying for will be repackaged for free, you'd be pissed as well.

That's not counting the countless PR that, if you read them now, are completely FALSE... on a 1 year old MMO.

I'm not a doomsayer but I'll side with the devil's advocate on this one:
Worse case scenario is that the money people have been investing in the game has been going into the development of the online store; something that grants ZOS even more money for absolutely no benefit to the current paying customers what-so-ever. How long did it take them to set up this store, I wonder... on a 1 year old MMO.

Where is my money going into?

That is excessively insulting especially considering the wording of the PR.

Your money was going to... the support, maintenance, and improvement on the game. Even after the game is going, there needs to be money spent to do those sorts of things. And they happened. As to them using their money for the transition, well that happens too. That's call re-investing in your property.

In all honesty, none of the people that we're dealing with on a day to day basis have any investment in the company. They're workers for hire. And as such, they formulate tactics within the limitations of the strategy that they're fed. And they're limited by even what they *can* say. From their perspective, it probably was keep going ahead, and make the best subscription game that they can within the constraints given by the people with the money.

But then, something spurred a change at the top. And they marched to the music. What spurred this change? Probably one of the things I outlined. But I'm not so naive that it couldn't have been something else that I don't see. Because we don't have the full picture.

Then they proceeded to march in a different direction. One that was not realized overnight.

I just don't see why we can't take things for what they are, take our payment for service as just that, and then decide- not based on sunk costs, but costs going forward- whether we're going to support them.

I'm in until I'm out, is my saying. And when I'm out... it really depends on when I stop having fun. Could this go bad? Yes, of course. But it also could not go bad. I'm willing to wait and see. And not assume the worst of intentions, nor that they lied to me, nor that it was anything but business, nor that my payment for service entitles me to anything but that... a service.

Things change, and this is evidence of that.

wraith808

MornaBaine wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Galathil923 wrote: »

Dont blame yourself ,some people do want this B2P model, I personally was happy with the sub model.I have more of a problem being lied to by Zos this whole time. I think things would have went a lot smoother had they been honest with what they were working on.

Why do you assume they lied to you the whole time? Other than the last few months- and I'm assuming that the people that interacted with us were kept to confidentiality- I don't think they explicitly knew. There were several factors- many that those that communicate us probably had little control over.

• Subscription numbers
• Console release
• MS and Sony pressure
• The realities of the Console market

It was a business decision, spurred by current market conditions and platform agreements- and I can't get the whole thought process that it was against any group of people personally.

When I look at all the goodies they've already got cooked up for the cash shop, pets, mounts, costumes...I KNOW in my bones those things were created quite some time ago but held back FOR THE CASH SHOP. The fact that we got not a single scrap of "fluff" for nearly a full year tells me they knew darn well where they were going.

They knew it was a possibility. We saw that when they had the mounts for sale. That doesn't mean it was *the plan*, just that it was *a plan*- mitigation for the negotiations, the sales, or whatever risk there was in releasing an MMO for the PC platforms and consoles. In other words... business decisions.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Danikat wrote: »

About the game going buy-to-play. It's my fault.

Well, not me alone obviously, but people like me.

I've been a fan of TES since Morrowind and when I first heard about ESO I was excited. Unsure about some aspects of course, but still excited. I signed up for thecommunitye first chance I got and played every one I had access to. And I did like the game. I wouldn't say it's the best game ever, or even the best MMO or TES game but still very enjoyable.

But I found the business model a major stumbling block. I can afford a subscription but for various reasons I'm not willing to pay one. And I told ZOS that, repeatedly. I think it came up in every single piece of feedback I left. I asked repeatedly for a b2p model instead and left at least one essay on why I think it's better.

Now, a year on, I'm getting exactly what I asked for. And again I'm excited and looking forward to finally playing this game. My husband and several of my friends who did buy the game and then unsubbed shortly after are also planning to come back and we've all been badgering everyone else we think might be interested to join in too.

But at the same time I feel guilty, because me and my friends getting the business model we want comes at the cost of many of you not getting the one you wanted, and had and were happy with. When I heard the news I came straight here to see how the existing fan base was taking it, and the reaction was pretty much what I'd expected. It definitely curbed my own enthusiasm to see so many hurt, angry, disappointed people (regardless of how justified you, or I or anyone else might think those reactions are).

And also because I share many of the same concerns about the introduction of a cash shop being, either overtly or gradually over time, the introduction of pay-to-win (a big part of the reason I advocated b2p over f2p is I think that makes it less likely) and I wanted to see what details had been given so far and what the likely impact would be.

As it is I'm still cautiously optimistic and I look forward to playing with my friends and those of you who are sticking around. I've heard many good things about this community and seen it myself on this forum (no, really), although I hope you'll forgive the influx of noob questions in chat.

But even so, I'm sorry.

It's ok but u and the others who want this will be coming to a dieing game which might not last 6 months. U have what u wanted but not for long. The people who subbed feel lied to and betrayed and will stay for a short while but if it turns into a p2w then they will go and so will the communi

Dave2836

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

About the game going buy-to-play. It's my fault.

Well, not me alone obviously, but people like me.

I've been a fan of TES since Morrowind and when I first heard about ESO I was excited. Unsure about some aspects of course, but still excited. I signed up for thecommunitye first chance I got and played every one I had access to. And I did like the game. I wouldn't say it's the best game ever, or even the best MMO or TES game but still very enjoyable.

But I found the business model a major stumbling block. I can afford a subscription but for various reasons I'm not willing to pay one. And I told ZOS that, repeatedly. I think it came up in every single piece of feedback I left. I asked repeatedly for a b2p model instead and left at least one essay on why I think it's better.

Now, a year on, I'm getting exactly what I asked for. And again I'm excited and looking forward to finally playing this game. My husband and several of my friends who did buy the game and then unsubbed shortly after are also planning to come back and we've all been badgering everyone else we think might be interested to join in too.

But at the same time I feel guilty, because me and my friends getting the business model we want comes at the cost of many of you not getting the one you wanted, and had and were happy with. When I heard the news I came straight here to see how the existing fan base was taking it, and the reaction was pretty much what I'd expected. It definitely curbed my own enthusiasm to see so many hurt, angry, disappointed people (regardless of how justified you, or I or anyone else might think those reactions are).

And also because I share many of the same concerns about the introduction of a cash shop being, either overtly or gradually over time, the introduction of pay-to-win (a big part of the reason I advocated b2p over f2p is I think that makes it less likely) and I wanted to see what details had been given so far and what the likely impact would be.

As it is I'm still cautiously optimistic and I look forward to playing with my friends and those of you who are sticking around. I've heard many good things about this community and seen it myself on this forum (no, really), although I hope you'll forgive the influx of noob questions in chat.

But even so, I'm sorry.

It's ok but u and the others who want this will be coming to a dieing game which might not last 6 months. U have what u wanted but not for long. The people who subbed feel lied to and betrayed and will stay for a short while but if it turns into a p2w then they will go and so will the communi

Funny how I keep bringing up DCUO as an example of F2P does not equal P2W and B2P does not equal dying game. If I had bought ESO two weeks ago, I would already have access to Craglorn as well as all the updated content that came before and after it along with my initial 30 day free trial period. If I bought the game on March 18, the truth still holds. The only differentiation at this point is how many crowns I've accumulated and how far progressed into the story I would be considering each scenario.

Change in the business model is targeting the specific demographic @Danikat represents, primarily for the consoles and not neccessarily for the computer user. I've said so before, I plan to stay, subbed, and play, but AM NOT this game's target audience. Apparently, @alainjbrennanb16_ESO, neither are you.

I_killed_Vivec

wraith808 wrote: »

They knew it was a possibility. We saw that when they had the mounts for sale. That doesn't mean it was *the plan*, just that it was *a plan*- mitigation for the negotiations, the sales, or whatever risk there was in releasing an MMO for the PC platforms and consoles. In other words... business decisions.

Reasonable words, but...

Putting on angry head:

It wasn't meant to be a plan. At least they told us that they'd rather switch off the servers than do it because it was not the way to produce a quality game.

Not only do we know that they lied about that but there are some concerns about how long ago they switched to this new plan, diverting new content we should have had into future DLC they can charge for...

And now putting on the conspiracy theorist's head:

Was it "the" plan all along?

Normally I'd be on the more sane side of the argument, but I've just been watching the final installment of the trailer. One year in the making, ready for the release of TU... it's as if TU is brand new game and ESO never existed!

I prefer not to think about it in such a way, but it really does look as if we have been paying to debug TU...

Having said that, I am excited about 1.6. It's unfortunate that there won't be any new content for a while, but on the plus side I won't have to pay:)

Morshire

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Putting on angry head:

It wasn't meant to be a plan. At least they told us that they'd rather switch off the servers than do it because it was not the way to produce a quality game.

Not only do we know that they lied about that but there are some concerns about how long ago they switched to this new plan, diverting new content we should have had into future DLC they can charge for...

And now putting on the conspiracy theorist's head:

Was it "the" plan all along?

Normally I'd be on the more sane side of the argument, but I've just been watching the final installment of the trailer. One year in the making, ready for the release of TU... it's as if TU is brand new game and ESO never existed!

I prefer not to think about it in such a way, but it really does look as if we have been paying to debug TU...

Having said that, I am excited about 1.6. It's unfortunate that there won't be any new content for a while, but on the plus side I won't have to pay:)

Ahh. Now something I can jump on and have a few laughs. To part one...so does the backpedal on shutting down the servers mean that we can expect not to get the quality content? I mean they did say that the sub based game was the only way they could bring that to us. (You conspiracy nuts have fun with that)

And I have to agree with you about the trailers. I watched a few and you know, unless they produced that stuff in record time, it would appear that this was in the makings for quit some time. TU does appear to be a whole new game.

And for the "crystal ball people" - The future looks like a definite overhaul of what we have grown accustom too. So what are we in for...............

andrew.king141b14_ESO

I remember the surveys after the betas, I always said that I probably wouldn't pay a sub AND pay full game price (60 USD), but either/or would work for me. A couple months after the game came out I actually bought the game (it was on sale for $36 but still) and subbed for a few months..... then I bought a 6 month sub... then I bought a copy for my wife (again, on sale, $40). I actually regret being one of those voices simply because I ended up being a hypocrite. Time will tell if the change leads to the destruction of our very way of life, or if things will just go on as normal.

I'm waiting to see how they handle the store before I pass judgement. I've played GW2 and I've seen how cosmetic stores have worked... it doesn't phase me much but I do believe that some of the ridiculous aspects of those stores really wouldn't work with TES lore. I already hate seeing people in bright pink armor I don't want people running around shooting pop-guns filled with glitter and fireworks at each other.

Naivefanboi

Danikat wrote: »

About the game going buy-to-play. It's my fault.

Well, not me alone obviously, but people like me.

I've been a fan of TES since Morrowind and when I first heard about ESO I was excited. Unsure about some aspects of course, but still excited. I signed up for the betas the first chance I got and played every one I had access to. And I did like the game. I wouldn't say it's the best game ever, or even the best MMO or TES game but still very enjoyable.

But I found the business model a major stumbling block. I can afford a subscription but for various reasons I'm not willing to pay one. And I told ZOS that, repeatedly. I think it came up in every single piece of feedback I left. I asked repeatedly for a b2p model instead and left at least one essay on why I think it's better.

Now, a year on, I'm getting exactly what I asked for. And again I'm excited and looking forward to finally playing this game. My husband and several of my friends who did buy the game and then unsubbed shortly after are also planning to come back and we've all been badgering everyone else we think might be interested to join in too.

But at the same time I feel guilty, because me and my friends getting the business model we want comes at the cost of many of you not getting the one you wanted, and had and were happy with. When I heard the news I came straight here to see how the existing fan base was taking it, and the reaction was pretty much what I'd expected. It definitely curbed my own enthusiasm to see so many hurt, angry, disappointed people (regardless of how justified you, or I or anyone else might think those reactions are).

And also because I share many of the same concerns about the introduction of a cash shop being, either overtly or gradually over time, the introduction of pay-to-win (a big part of the reason I advocated b2p over f2p is I think that makes it less likely) and I wanted to see what details had been given so far and what the likely impact would be.

As it is I'm still cautiously optimistic and I look forward to playing with my friends and those of you who are sticking around. I've heard many good things about this community and seen it myself on this forum (no, really), although I hope you'll forgive the influx of noob questions in chat.

But even so, I'm sorry.

do me a favor and put a disclaimer about this post in your guild ads so i can avoid unknowingly supporting people like you and youre friends.
welcome back!

Morshire

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

About the game going buy-to-play. It's my fault.

Well, not me alone obviously, but people like me.

I've been a fan of TES since Morrowind and when I first heard about ESO I was excited. Unsure about some aspects of course, but still excited. I signed up for the betas the first chance I got and played every one I had access to. And I did like the game. I wouldn't say it's the best game ever, or even the best MMO or TES game but still very enjoyable.

But I found the business model a major stumbling block. I can afford a subscription but for various reasons I'm not willing to pay one. And I told ZOS that, repeatedly. I think it came up in every single piece of feedback I left. I asked repeatedly for a b2p model instead and left at least one essay on why I think it's better.

Now, a year on, I'm getting exactly what I asked for. And again I'm excited and looking forward to finally playing this game. My husband and several of my friends who did buy the game and then unsubbed shortly after are also planning to come back and we've all been badgering everyone else we think might be interested to join in too.

But at the same time I feel guilty, because me and my friends getting the business model we want comes at the cost of many of you not getting the one you wanted, and had and were happy with. When I heard the news I came straight here to see how the existing fan base was taking it, and the reaction was pretty much what I'd expected. It definitely curbed my own enthusiasm to see so many hurt, angry, disappointed people (regardless of how justified you, or I or anyone else might think those reactions are).

And also because I share many of the same concerns about the introduction of a cash shop being, either overtly or gradually over time, the introduction of pay-to-win (a big part of the reason I advocated b2p over f2p is I think that makes it less likely) and I wanted to see what details had been given so far and what the likely impact would be.

As it is I'm still cautiously optimistic and I look forward to playing with my friends and those of you who are sticking around. I've heard many good things about this community and seen it myself on this forum (no, really), although I hope you'll forgive the influx of noob questions in chat.

But even so, I'm sorry.

do me a favor and put a disclaimer about this post in your guild ads so i can avoid unknowingly supporting people like you and youre friends.
welcome back!

ROTFLMFAO - that was the nicest insult I have seen in a while.

Naivefanboi

wraith808 wrote: »

Gix wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Why do you assume they lied to you the whole time? Other than the last few months- and I'm assuming that the people that interacted with us were kept to confidentiality- I don't think they explicitly knew. There were several factors- many that those that communicate us probably had little control over.

• Subscription numbers
• Console release
• MS and Sony pressure
• The realities of the Console market

It was a business decision, spurred by current market conditions and platform agreements- and I can't get the whole thought process that it was against any group of people personally.

I think I can answer on his behalf:

Subscription fees for MMOs are supposed to cover the cost of server maintenance (not a big issue these days) and building future content. We've been playing for practically a year now and the content that we've paid for (and still have no received save for Craglorn) will be available for free on release. That's not counting the countless problems this game had outside of the content.

The reason we kept playing/paying is for them to give us new and better things in the game. We're getting that, sure enough, but we might as well have waited instead. Waited for the undaunted XP change, the champion system, etc. All these things happening back to back leaves a sour taste to those who actually backed the game.

Doing a 180 on a design and marketing choice that was originally set and publicized seems a tad too early for a 1year old MMO. Thus, it feels like we've been paying a Beta test and, while I don't personally believe that, I won't blame anyone who thinks so.

Love it or hate it, subscription numbers are low due to the state of the game. Changing the business model to get more money despite our contribution is a slap to the face. I'm okay with the game as it is but if they really needed more subscribers to keep the subscription model going, they should've done a better/smarter job in their initial design.

That... answers none of what I actually asked. Why do you think it was against *you* personally. There are a variety of reasons that this decision was made... and none of them were *personal*. I think it was because of the reality of the MMO landscape on consoles... and how critical that money is. I also think it's short-sighted, but that will depend on the market for crowns and how they handle it. But no matter what happens, I won't take it personally, which is what a lot of people, including the OP, seem to be doing.

you console mmos guys and youre reality are really interesting.

FF realm reborn good mmo with about 2million SUBSCRIPTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
granted that is across pc/360/ps3/ps4/xbone
but hey guess what else.... all those platforms play together......

welcome to reality stop regurgitating the PR lines.

Naivefanboi

Gix wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

Well it's nice to see this has stayed civil, even when people disagree. That's what I meant about the great community here.

As I said I'm wary of the cash shop too. I've been on the fence about DLC ever since horse armour was added to Oblivion. Although strangely enough I was never as worried about expansions and add-on packs back in ye olde days when they were sold on disks. Maybe I assumed it had to be good to justify the cost and effort of making and shipping the packs, maybe I was a naïve kid (most likely a bit of both).

But I play GW2 and I'm ok with what they've done with the cash shop so far. Yes they sell boosters but the difference they make is so minor I'm sceptical anyone actually buys them. Hopefully it will be the same here.

Although I have no experience with VR levels and champion ranks and things, beyond what I've picked up lurking on the forum so I'm not sure how that might affect it.

I forgot to welcome you to the forums; I sincerely hope you enjoy your stay.

I enjoyed GuildWars 2 and the first experience with "added content" when it was released was awesome. My overall experience was somewhat tainted with the introduction of the smaller living-story chapters and the idea that I much prefer the original GuildWars' business model.

The Gem store honestly annoyed me but, at least, most of it could be ignored. The problem I find isn't necessarily the idea that they could shove a store in my face, but the idea that their budgeting will be severely dampened if they relied too much on it.

The good news for us is that, now, we have a choice:
1) Pay for free and deal with whatever you get.
2) Play for free and buy vanity items from the store.
3) Play for free and use a business model akin to GW1: pay for whatever content you want as they are released.
4) Continue to pay a subscription and get the content like nothing changed.
5) Any combination of #1-to-3.

What I'm worried about is that, due to this change, #3 and #4 are the only reliable revenues for ZOS to develop worthwhile content and a large significant portion of the already subscribed player-base will go for #1 or #2. Sure, they'll get a sizable amount of money from the vanity store but you can't budget game development projects properly with that money.

It's not the end of the world and the game isn't really about to fall dead but the change really wasn't what the players wanted (we throw money so they can fix bugs and add content, that's all we want from ZOS) and the transition (or at least how they shared the information) was sloppy and a slap to the face.

I'm debating whenever or not I'm going with #3 or #4...

#4 is not an actual option.... if i stay subbed then the pace at which i recieve content....goes down........while the income the company makes goes up............................
gee why are people mad?????????????

Dragath

not your fault, op.
business decision from the moment they knew the console versions had to be sub-free to sell. quite a while ago.
ESO goes b2p for different reasons, but none of them has to do with the few players that recommended it.
though i am not sure if you are going to like the new "ESOTU".
the ingame shop will be a big part of it.
if you dont pay for all the upcoming stuff, you wont get anything.
you will see quite some boosters, mounts, armors (cosmetic) and other stuff shop exclusive. if you are the type of players that wants to be able to get everything in game, you wont be happy.
if you are just looking for this (how it is atm) ESO, you might be happy playing it. the community will get worse, but not by much, and you dont even have to deal with other players, if you dont want to.
development of new content will also slow down quite a bit, not only after the console release, and the shop will take part of it, slowing it down even further.
nonetheless, welcome back.

grimjim398

Nice apology, pretty much irrelevant. I suppose you like looking heroic and understanding, so enjoy your halo. I'm still leaving with a very bad taste in my mouth, and you and your friends get to play the game without making any commitment to it. I hope you all find a very cheap copy of the game and enjoy yourselves immensely. I'll find another game to enjoy and life will go on much as before.

Cody

Its ok:) I will kill you shortly.

Breg_Magol

Danikat wrote: »

Well it's nice to see this has stayed civil, even when people disagree. That's what I meant about the great community here.

...

Although I have no experience with VR levels and champion ranks and things, beyond what I've picked up lurking on the forum so I'm not sure how that might affect it.

Civil? Aye I swear by the Lady that I will track you down and rip your heart soul out of your vile carcass. Then I will drink your blood and sup on your fresh liver. You won't see me coming for I am a vampire night blade ... for now that I learn from your confession that you have single handedhanded effected the Great Calamity in my universe ... I'll show no mercy, for you deserve none.
Prepare to meet your doom.

PS ... I would appreciate your assistance though ... could you please provide me with your in game name ... just to make it easier for my brothers and I to track you down.

PSS ... I'm cautiously optimistic actually. If it works like GW2 I'll be happy enough as it doesn't impact adversely in that game as far as I can see.

wraith808

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

you console mmos guys and youre reality are really interesting.

FF realm reborn good mmo with about 2million SUBSCRIPTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
granted that is across pc/360/ps3/ps4/xbone
but hey guess what else.... all those platforms play together......

welcome to reality stop regurgitating the PR lines.

Wow... so now it degenerates. And based on a falsehood at that. I have an Xbox... that I haven't touched for almost a year. The whole year... I've been playing ESO, SWTOR (after a break), EQ2, Neverwinter, Champions Online (suckered with a LT), and LOTRO (don't really regret my LT... just the state of the game right now). In fact, you can see my twitch stream at http://twitch.tv/hachibushu. Been playing on the PC for many moons since I started on my 286.

And you're going to call me a console MMO guy? Even though I've never played an MMO on the console? Instead of rebutting the argument at hand?

You're dead to me.

KhajitFurTrader

Wait a minute... us lowly customers can get the busines model that suits us best just by leaving feedback?

<.<

>.>

How 'bout paying me for playin', then? PC2P, pay the customer to play? No? Aw, but it was worth a try, I guess...

Akhratos

No worries OP, I will get rewarded enough for my continued support to the ZOS developer team by being granted 1100 crowns!! I know you are jealous...

That will most likely allow me to buy a third of a Guar mount (yehaa!), which, along with my other crown income (1500 for a single ESO+ month cough*) I will use to grind you at Cyrodiil since it seems it was our characters eating apples&oats all this time (so my 1/3 Guar will be fast as a lightning bolt!).

If I cant buy the Guar mount before you level up to 50, I will get firecrackers and ruin your immersion everywhere you go while wearing my Court Jester costume.

As a last resort, I have a secret weapon of mass destruction for your interest in this game.

PS: Damn, its not secret anymore!

illusionarythade

Welcome, OP!

kenpachi480

all I am worried about is the quality, can it be maintained now the model has changed, further I welcome everyone who feels like playing this game

Neizir

Are you sure it isn't my fault?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1444401/#Comment_1444401

Read it all, then compare my suggestion to the real business model. They TERRIFYINGLY similar.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Dave2836 wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

About the game going buy-to-play. It's my fault.

Well, not me alone obviously, but people like me.

I've been a fan of TES since Morrowind and when I first heard about ESO I was excited. Unsure about some aspects of course, but still excited. I signed up for thecommunitye first chance I got and played every one I had access to. And I did like the game. I wouldn't say it's the best game ever, or even the best MMO or TES game but still very enjoyable.

But I found the business model a major stumbling block. I can afford a subscription but for various reasons I'm not willing to pay one. And I told ZOS that, repeatedly. I think it came up in every single piece of feedback I left. I asked repeatedly for a b2p model instead and left at least one essay on why I think it's better.

Now, a year on, I'm getting exactly what I asked for. And again I'm excited and looking forward to finally playing this game. My husband and several of my friends who did buy the game and then unsubbed shortly after are also planning to come back and we've all been badgering everyone else we think might be interested to join in too.

But at the same time I feel guilty, because me and my friends getting the business model we want comes at the cost of many of you not getting the one you wanted, and had and were happy with. When I heard the news I came straight here to see how the existing fan base was taking it, and the reaction was pretty much what I'd expected. It definitely curbed my own enthusiasm to see so many hurt, angry, disappointed people (regardless of how justified you, or I or anyone else might think those reactions are).

And also because I share many of the same concerns about the introduction of a cash shop being, either overtly or gradually over time, the introduction of pay-to-win (a big part of the reason I advocated b2p over f2p is I think that makes it less likely) and I wanted to see what details had been given so far and what the likely impact would be.

As it is I'm still cautiously optimistic and I look forward to playing with my friends and those of you who are sticking around. I've heard many good things about this community and seen it myself on this forum (no, really), although I hope you'll forgive the influx of noob questions in chat.

But even so, I'm sorry.

It's ok but u and the others who want this will be coming to a dieing game which might not last 6 months. U have what u wanted but not for long. The people who subbed feel lied to and betrayed and will stay for a short while but if it turns into a p2w then they will go and so will the communi

Funny how I keep bringing up DCUO as an example of F2P does not equal P2W and B2P does not equal dying game. If I had bought ESO two weeks ago, I would already have access to Craglorn as well as all the updated content that came before and after it along with my initial 30 day free trial period. If I bought the game on March 18, the truth still holds. The only differentiation at this point is how many crowns I've accumulated and how far progressed into the story I would be considering each scenario.

Change in the business model is targeting the specific demographic @Danikat represents, primarily for the consoles and not neccessarily for the computer user. I've said so before, I plan to stay, subbed, and play, but AM NOT this game's target audience. Apparently, @alainjbrennanb16_ESO, neither are you.

it would seem so

Aiko

@Danikat‌ I hope you can enjoy the game, like i did before this announcement.

Ah well.. not gonna start to write another book about how much this sucks.
Enjoy.. i hope the sacrifice was worth it

daemonios

Danikat wrote: »

I can afford a subscription but for various reasons I'm not willing to pay one.

Can you state some of the reasons? I don't mean to attack you personally, but I feel that people who support F2P/B2P are essentially free riders - people who expect others to bear the costs of maintaining the game. If you believe the game has some value, why would you not be willing to pay for it in a transparent way, via subscription fee?

JamilaRaj

ashlee17 wrote: »

Zos needs people like the op in their PR department. Honest, forthcoming and thoughtful.

While I agree honest people can be sometimes useful tools, they suffer from bouts of conscience from time to time, usually at inconvenient moment, and therefore PR departments must use them only sparingly and with care. Shameless liars are not as credible, but reliable.

lathbury

Harleyquincey wrote: »

@Danikat‌


The question remains: how does a company tackle such a delicate situation? Zenimax surely has made mistakes in handling this, but I would never go as far as to say "they lied to us" with the sole exception of the 6-month-subscription-removal-announcement (sorry, at that point it must have been decided and frankly, that was a very bad move and there is something to learn from it for Zenimax). Besides that one issue, things simply have changed over the course of action, the same is true for everyday life as well. I can vow a lot of things today I could have to do nevertheless in a year's course, like "I will never cut my hair" and then boom! Job offer for 300k/yr but only if I shave the mane off.
That's how life is. It's not solid, it's fluid.

so they did lie to us then and timed it so that ppl who had taken out 2 6 month subs ie either most dedicated or naive got stiffed the hardest. in fact if you look at the timing if you had been regularly subbing since launch it was timed in such a way that the 6 month subs had renewed as had the 3 month and even the 1 month they wrung every last penny they could.

lathbury

shadowmilb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm getting off this ship before it sinks.

this is how I feel mate
movieclips.com/tTvuG-titanic-movie-this-ship-cant-sink/

Dave2836

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Well that sure was a lot of editing... This thread is starting to remind me of the good old Battle.net chat. Glad to see the somethings never change.

On the other hand:

1 - how is OP absence from the game going to improve or degrade the current community?

2 - Just because its going B2P doesn't mean the game is going to die.

3 - Doesn't your post prove that the community is currently slightly below average with your presence?

4 - What's to stop you from playing after the B2P transition? One would like to think you had made some friends, maybe joined a guild, maybe interacted with some body somewhere in this game.

5 - Unless you are a sociopath which your post currently suggests as there is a slight hint of "what's in it for me?" mentality along with projecting your fears as the fault of others rather than your own insecurity of being able to find enjoyment in any given environment.