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Please fix the overpowered 1h+sh BLOCK
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nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »Did you test it against the very same type of enemy every time?. When I did it to mudcrabs to test just the base numbers IE, no block mitigation or spell resist. My numbers were spot on.
Yes. Three independent tests. Each performed on the same mob type for each test. One was mudcrabs, one was lurchers, and one was gargoyles. My numbers were spot in as well. I was very thorough. then I performed subjective testing through instances and compared dps.
The biggest disparaty I was able to achieve was 17%, and that was on my tank gear.
Edit: Now, this does not mean I am necessarily right, but in all my tests I have not seen the full 22% apply. I'm not trying to advocate for this skill being op or anything, I have just tested something different.
Interesting!! My numbers seemed to be spot on as I said. I only tested it against one enemy mudcrabs. Withing a 2-3% marigin. Just wanted a solid base line to do the calculations.
Now the numbers would obviously be different with light compared to heavy, due to the passives of light armor giving a boost to spell damage and penetration.
Did you try with no armor? Just curious cause i did not. (will be today).
Which I do feel kind of stupid about not trying. As these would be the absolute baseline numbers needed to accurately evaluate the damage reduction.
Regardless as someone else said this is not an OP skill. Everyone seems to forget that a DK has a self heal that will heal them for 33% of their max health with absolutely no drawbacks.
As a nightblade I will say it really sucks having to loose that much damage to be able to maintain resources.2 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »Did you test it against the very same type of enemy every time?. When I did it to mudcrabs to test just the base numbers IE, no block mitigation or spell resist. My numbers were spot on.
Yes. Three independent tests. Each performed on the same mob type for each test. One was mudcrabs, one was lurchers, and one was gargoyles. My numbers were spot in as well. I was very thorough. then I performed subjective testing through instances and compared dps.
The biggest disparaty I was able to achieve was 17%, and that was on my tank gear.
Edit: Now, this does not mean I am necessarily right, but in all my tests I have not seen the full 22% apply. I'm not trying to advocate for this skill being op or anything, I have just tested something different.
Interesting!! My numbers seemed to be spot on as I said. I only tested it against one enemy mudcrabs. Withing a 2-3% marigin. Just wanted a solid base line to do the calculations.
Now the numbers would obviously be different with light compared to heavy, due to the passives of light armor giving a boost to spell damage and penetration.
Did you try with no armor? Just curious cause i did not. (will be today).
Which I do feel kind of stupid about not trying. As these would be the absolute baseline numbers needed to accurately evaluate the damage reduction.
Regardless as someone else said this is not an OP skill. Everyone seems to forget that a DK has a self heal that will heal them for 33% of their max health with absolutely no drawbacks.
As a nightblade I will say it really sucks having to loose that much damage to be able to maintain resources.
I should test with no armor...
I'm having another nightblade help farm up some numbers later today. We will do some more in depth testing then.
Also, I'm using the percent difference equation;
( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100
just so we are on the same page with that.
I was actually getting 6.68% upon testing... with my PvE dps build. Which is why I asked another nighblade to help test numbers, because it just didn't seem quite right.
So, a baseline would be good to establish.
But yea, GDB also gives impressive regens, making it useful even without the heal.
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »Did you test it against the very same type of enemy every time?. When I did it to mudcrabs to test just the base numbers IE, no block mitigation or spell resist. My numbers were spot on.
Yes. Three independent tests. Each performed on the same mob type for each test. One was mudcrabs, one was lurchers, and one was gargoyles. My numbers were spot in as well. I was very thorough. then I performed subjective testing through instances and compared dps.
The biggest disparaty I was able to achieve was 17%, and that was on my tank gear.
Edit: Now, this does not mean I am necessarily right, but in all my tests I have not seen the full 22% apply. I'm not trying to advocate for this skill being op or anything, I have just tested something different.
Interesting!! My numbers seemed to be spot on as I said. I only tested it against one enemy mudcrabs. Withing a 2-3% marigin. Just wanted a solid base line to do the calculations.
Now the numbers would obviously be different with light compared to heavy, due to the passives of light armor giving a boost to spell damage and penetration.
Did you try with no armor? Just curious cause i did not. (will be today).
Which I do feel kind of stupid about not trying. As these would be the absolute baseline numbers needed to accurately evaluate the damage reduction.
Regardless as someone else said this is not an OP skill. Everyone seems to forget that a DK has a self heal that will heal them for 33% of their max health with absolutely no drawbacks.
As a nightblade I will say it really sucks having to loose that much damage to be able to maintain resources.
I should test with no armor...
I'm having another nightblade help farm up some numbers later today. We will do some more in depth testing then.
Also, I'm using the percent difference equation;
( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100
just so we are on the same page with that.
I was actually getting 6.68% upon testing... with my PvE dps build. Which is why I asked another nighblade to help test numbers, because it just didn't seem quite right.
So, a baseline would be good to establish.
But yea, GDB also gives impressive regens, making it useful even without the heal.
OK, we are done testing.
Equation Example;
Value based off of naked funnel health with toggle on/off
off,V1 = 272 and on,V2 = 242
( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100
= ( | 272 - 242 | / ((272 + 242)/2) ) * 100
= ( | 30 | / (514/2) ) * 100
= ( 30 / 257 ) * 100
= 0.116732 * 100
= 11.6732% difference
We tried many variables and combinations. we tested weapon and magic, as well as heals.
We found that the ratio is the same regardless of crit, per ability used.
Naked, there was a 12% avg global penalty to spells.
Naked, there was a 18.4 avg global penalty to weapon damage.
Geared, (~900+ magica) 7% avg global penalty to spells. (the lowest % difference was 6.5% when both toggle on and off were past softcap (135) because softcap reduces the stat separately from SA.
Weapon Damage maintained a roughly 12% penalty with the gear and enchants we had.
Mutagen maintained a 9.5% penalty with the weapon damage we tested with. (If used before toggling SA on, you can keep the higher heal going by reapplying it)
Healing Springs maintained a 8.2% penalty.
We found that these rates applied consistently over the various skills and abilities we used.
So yea, not 22%. Try 6.5% for me
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!3 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thechemicals wrote: »Block casting is abused by
1. Dk;s - a passive that returns stamina per use of any earth skill
2. Night blades- siphoning 10% chance to return stam and magicka.
Its not block casting because everyone runs outa of stamina. However those things mentioned above, allow your to serious milk blocking for a longtime. L2P btw.
Siphoning is OP... just you forgot, the 22% less damage... lolchemicals
It's more like 10%, and you don't have to wory about regen or reduction gear. You can build straight damage and still sit above softcap with it on. It essentially is a toggle for insane burst or insane sustain.
dont tell me you people are going to call siphoning strikes OP...... If you had any idea of the crappy survivablilty of the NB class, you would realize how foolish you sound calling Siphoning strikes OP. its not. trust me. There are worse issues about currently.
I have played Nightblade practically exclusively in my time in ESO. I am well aware of what we are capable of.
I take extreme issue with your rating of Nightblade survivability. The sap and shield build, for example , can keep me up in a fight in PvP for a good long while. I have even outlasted dragonknights in my group.
In pve, I can have softcapped damage, and still maintain great dps (even while tanking) with it on. I can then toggle it off for burst at the beginning and end of the fight. Added benifit of Nightblade tanking is that you don't even care about stamina, so I just throw calthrops everywhere.
If only we all used a shield.
I tried a shield build once, could not get into it:(
Yea, annoying isn't it? I don't like it, but it works.
I prefer an evasive playstyle personally, one that uses distance and positioning to survive. Ofc, this style does not really work in large engagements. But sap spam does.
Thing is, its also easy enough to counter. Just stand out of range for a bit. Which is also a direct address to the OP, spread out, and wear out their stamina so their block drops. Easy enough.
sap spammers are not that difficult, at least in 1v1s/small group battles. I recently beat one in a 1v1. was a good fight, but i got his stamina down eventually.
I also faced a DK who, despite me having hit him at least 30-50 times with light attacks and flurries, COMBINED with shades. still managed to keep their block up.
very frustrating.
Edited by Cody on December 15, 2014 1:41AM3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I also faced a DK who, despite me having hit him at least 30-50 times with light attacks and flurries, COMBINED with shades. still managed to keep their block up.
very frustrating.
I was having some fun in vet3 Greenshade back when my DK was vet3. In heavy armor and using block cost reduction enchants, i would aggro three wasp nests at once, then put up razor armor, drop a cinder storm, and watch them all kill themselves on me while i blocked the whole time. That is some 15+ or so mobs pelting you with fast attacks. Never ran out of stamina
1 -
nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »Did you test it against the very same type of enemy every time?. When I did it to mudcrabs to test just the base numbers IE, no block mitigation or spell resist. My numbers were spot on.
Yes. Three independent tests. Each performed on the same mob type for each test. One was mudcrabs, one was lurchers, and one was gargoyles. My numbers were spot in as well. I was very thorough. then I performed subjective testing through instances and compared dps.
The biggest disparaty I was able to achieve was 17%, and that was on my tank gear.
Edit: Now, this does not mean I am necessarily right, but in all my tests I have not seen the full 22% apply. I'm not trying to advocate for this skill being op or anything, I have just tested something different.
Interesting!! My numbers seemed to be spot on as I said. I only tested it against one enemy mudcrabs. Withing a 2-3% marigin. Just wanted a solid base line to do the calculations.
Now the numbers would obviously be different with light compared to heavy, due to the passives of light armor giving a boost to spell damage and penetration.
Did you try with no armor? Just curious cause i did not. (will be today).
Which I do feel kind of stupid about not trying. As these would be the absolute baseline numbers needed to accurately evaluate the damage reduction.
Regardless as someone else said this is not an OP skill. Everyone seems to forget that a DK has a self heal that will heal them for 33% of their max health with absolutely no drawbacks.
As a nightblade I will say it really sucks having to loose that much damage to be able to maintain resources.
I should test with no armor...
I'm having another nightblade help farm up some numbers later today. We will do some more in depth testing then.
Also, I'm using the percent difference equation;
( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100
just so we are on the same page with that.
I was actually getting 6.68% upon testing... with my PvE dps build. Which is why I asked another nighblade to help test numbers, because it just didn't seem quite right.
So, a baseline would be good to establish.
But yea, GDB also gives impressive regens, making it useful even without the heal.
OK, we are done testing.
Equation Example;
Value based off of naked funnel health with toggle on/off
off,V1 = 272 and on,V2 = 242
( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100
= ( | 272 - 242 | / ((272 + 242)/2) ) * 100
= ( | 30 | / (514/2) ) * 100
= ( 30 / 257 ) * 100
= 0.116732 * 100
= 11.6732% difference
We tried many variables and combinations. we tested weapon and magic, as well as heals.
We found that the ratio is the same regardless of crit, per ability used.
Naked, there was a 12% avg global penalty to spells.
Naked, there was a 18.4 avg global penalty to weapon damage.
Geared, (~900+ magica) 7% avg global penalty to spells. (the lowest % difference was 6.5% when both toggle on and off were past softcap (135) because softcap reduces the stat separately from SA.
Weapon Damage maintained a roughly 12% penalty with the gear and enchants we had.
Mutagen maintained a 9.5% penalty with the weapon damage we tested with. (If used before toggling SA on, you can keep the higher heal going by reapplying it)
Healing Springs maintained a 8.2% penalty.
We found that these rates applied consistently over the various skills and abilities we used.
So yea, not 22%. Try 6.5% for me
Thank you everyone who ran their own tests!!!
The numbers are on the money.
The difference with armor must be due to the passives for each armor set. Also to the passives of the weapons and skill lines.
In retrospect, due to the fact that the passive skills in all trees increase damage among other things, I think, correct me if i am wrong the actual test would have to be done with a new character with no skill points in the passives, and no armor.
And test must be done with the same race. (I would think)
Not arguing with your numbers or logic.
Just wondering if you took the passives into account. Class, Weapon and racial passives.
0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »Did you test it against the very same type of enemy every time?. When I did it to mudcrabs to test just the base numbers IE, no block mitigation or spell resist. My numbers were spot on.
Yes. Three independent tests. Each performed on the same mob type for each test. One was mudcrabs, one was lurchers, and one was gargoyles. My numbers were spot in as well. I was very thorough. then I performed subjective testing through instances and compared dps.
The biggest disparaty I was able to achieve was 17%, and that was on my tank gear.
Edit: Now, this does not mean I am necessarily right, but in all my tests I have not seen the full 22% apply. I'm not trying to advocate for this skill being op or anything, I have just tested something different.
Interesting!! My numbers seemed to be spot on as I said. I only tested it against one enemy mudcrabs. Withing a 2-3% marigin. Just wanted a solid base line to do the calculations.
Now the numbers would obviously be different with light compared to heavy, due to the passives of light armor giving a boost to spell damage and penetration.
Did you try with no armor? Just curious cause i did not. (will be today).
Which I do feel kind of stupid about not trying. As these would be the absolute baseline numbers needed to accurately evaluate the damage reduction.
Regardless as someone else said this is not an OP skill. Everyone seems to forget that a DK has a self heal that will heal them for 33% of their max health with absolutely no drawbacks.
As a nightblade I will say it really sucks having to loose that much damage to be able to maintain resources.
I should test with no armor...
I'm having another nightblade help farm up some numbers later today. We will do some more in depth testing then.
Also, I'm using the percent difference equation;
( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100
just so we are on the same page with that.
I was actually getting 6.68% upon testing... with my PvE dps build. Which is why I asked another nighblade to help test numbers, because it just didn't seem quite right.
So, a baseline would be good to establish.
But yea, GDB also gives impressive regens, making it useful even without the heal.
OK, we are done testing.
Equation Example;
Value based off of naked funnel health with toggle on/off
off,V1 = 272 and on,V2 = 242
( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100
= ( | 272 - 242 | / ((272 + 242)/2) ) * 100
= ( | 30 | / (514/2) ) * 100
= ( 30 / 257 ) * 100
= 0.116732 * 100
= 11.6732% difference
We tried many variables and combinations. we tested weapon and magic, as well as heals.
We found that the ratio is the same regardless of crit, per ability used.
Naked, there was a 12% avg global penalty to spells.
Naked, there was a 18.4 avg global penalty to weapon damage.
Geared, (~900+ magica) 7% avg global penalty to spells. (the lowest % difference was 6.5% when both toggle on and off were past softcap (135) because softcap reduces the stat separately from SA.
Weapon Damage maintained a roughly 12% penalty with the gear and enchants we had.
Mutagen maintained a 9.5% penalty with the weapon damage we tested with. (If used before toggling SA on, you can keep the higher heal going by reapplying it)
Healing Springs maintained a 8.2% penalty.
We found that these rates applied consistently over the various skills and abilities we used.
So yea, not 22%. Try 6.5% for me
Thank you everyone who ran their own tests!!!
The numbers are on the money.
The difference with armor must be due to the passives for each armor set. Also to the passives of the weapons and skill lines.
In retrospect, due to the fact that the passive skills in all trees increase damage among other things, I think, correct me if i am wrong the actual test would have to be done with a new character with no skill points in the passives, and no armor.
And test must be done with the same race. (I would think)
Not arguing with your numbers or logic.
Just wondering if you took the passives into account. Class, Weapon and racial passives.
They were a consideration. We tried to take all variables possible into account, and so we decided to average the results. Despite variations in passives, attribute distribution, and enchantment strength, the % difference was consistent enough (0.3% variation) that we decided to use that as our % error. We did not mix spell damage with medium armor, for example, so we did not get a read on how those passives effected our results. Also, the only softcap we played with was the spell damage softcap. We did not eat food or apply any other buffs except for what was on our PvE equipment.
For a true baseline, a lvl 1 or 'fresh from coldharbor' lvl 3 would be ideal, but they wouldn't have siphoning attacks. I suppose a freshly respec'd Nightblade of high enough level with setless, traitless armor in white enchants would be best in this case, but I'm not respecing. Of course, I could run the numbers to get more exacting variables, but that's a good bit of work. And it would also require testing with sets such as stygian that we don't currently posess, and did not include for the purposes of this test.
Also, I'm sorry for turning this blocking thread into a SA thread for a bit... It was not my intention.
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Man... I use 1HShield with my imperial class Templar and
the ONLY SENSE of it is to block... You can't deal much damage, but block.
That's a shield for....
That some classes misuse combinations can't be that a skilline is nerfed which is alone for itself really not overpowered and good balanced.
It's the misuse of spamming special class skills.
do pvp. you should not tank many ppl because you can block like hell and do dmg while blocking.
@Kypho I have done PVP with 5x Footmans (12% more block mitigation), 5x Hist Bark (18% dodge when blocking) and hard-cap in Amour and Spell Resistance. I died fast every time fast.
Blocking isn't an issue, unless you have strong self heals or a healer with you, both of those can be overcome with skills or target priority.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."2 -
AltusVenifus✭✭✭Thechemicals wrote: »Block casting is abused by
1. Dk;s - a passive that returns stamina per use of any earth skill
2. Night blades- siphoning 10% chance to return stam and magicka.
Its not block casting because everyone runs outa of stamina. However those things mentioned above, allow your to serious milk blocking for a longtime. L2P btw.
Siphoning is OP... just you forgot, the 22% less damage... lolchemicals
It's more like 10%, and you don't have to wory about regen or reduction gear. You can build straight damage and still sit above softcap with it on. It essentially is a toggle for insane burst
I thought siphoning works with light or heavy attacks... therefore impossible to use while block casting...Edited by AltusVenifus on December 17, 2014 4:17AM0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Siphoning and leeching strikes do. Siphoning attacks has a chance to proc on all attacks.AltusVenifus wrote: »I thought siphoning works with light or heavy attacks... therefore impossible to use while block casting...
Look at the new effect.
http://www.esohead.com/skills/36935-siphoning-attacks
It works with skills, abilities, and bash, as well as light and heavy attacks. If the lords of RNG favor you, you never run out of anything.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
JLB✭✭✭✭Yes please ZOS, block is such a problem for me. I can't 2 shot some people in PvP just because of that stupid mechanic called blocking.
Actually, can you just get rid of it please? It would save me knowing how to play my class to beat a blocking build.
Sorry ZOS, you'll have to re-program the whole PvE mechanics as a side effect, but you know, we needs to kill a turtle DK in PvP and something needs to be done.
Oh, and the problem is obviously not the DK, or myself (ha! me?).
No, no, problem is blocking.
Please remove blocking and dumb down anything in game that is not pure DPS. It's only fair, since that's the way I play.2 -
Siluen✭✭✭✭In an attempt to turn a flame-war into something informative: it was already mentioned that block-casting is going to be addressed during the most recent ESO-live. As taken from the ESO-Live transcript from Tamriel Foundry (source)
Q: Is block casting still going to be possible?
"Yeah, block was definitely something we talked about changing, we had a lot of really good ideas for changing it, but there’s so much stuff that went into this it’s something we didn’t have time for. It’s still on our radar and it’s something we plan to address in the future, but we wanted to focus on adding these specific features first."
If this is not the issue the OP was talking about, do correct me, his post was not very long. But the amount of straw man fallacies and "L2P" I see passing by in an attempt to sound witty are kind of laughable. I do not think anyone has issues with blocking as a defensive mechanic, and come on guys, you probably know this already.
0 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just use weapon swing and drain their stamina. Actually having to block eats through stamina, and your stats recharge if you aren't using any skills. If you use siphon skills your health goes up even faster. Wait till they stop pussing around and then lay down the hammer and move on.
Or if you're a sorc like me just tele out and range them down.Edited by Cathexis on December 20, 2014 8:55PMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505262/adventures-in-ultra-ultrawide-an-ongoing-series0 -
JLB✭✭✭✭In an attempt to turn a flame-war into something informative: it was already mentioned that block-casting is going to be addressed during the most recent ESO-live. As taken from the ESO-Live transcript from Tamriel Foundry (source)
Q: Is block casting still going to be possible?
"Yeah, block was definitely something we talked about changing, we had a lot of really good ideas for changing it, but there’s so much stuff that went into this it’s something we didn’t have time for. It’s still on our radar and it’s something we plan to address in the future, but we wanted to focus on adding these specific features first."
If this is not the issue the OP was talking about, do correct me, his post was not very long. But the amount of straw man fallacies and "L2P" I see passing by in an attempt to sound witty are kind of laughable. I do not think anyone has issues with blocking as a defensive mechanic, and come on guys, you probably know this already.
The only issue I see with block casting is certain classes synergies that allow them to have infinite resources to keep blocking forever on top of dealing enough damage to kill other players.
What I don't understand is, why blame the blocking mechanic when it's obvious it's some class synergies that make it overpowered in some cases.1 -
the only issue i see is not blocking its people no knowing how to play. And others like CRYSTALIZED using Bs lag ball bull to win they think they r good. Then cry when someone counters them. Cry me a river exploiting losers.1
-
Vaelen✭✭✭Permablocking is getting nerfed bigtime in 1.6. You'll still be able to permablock everything, but you will never gain any ultimate unless you use light attacks, skills don't count to gain ulti anymore unless its like carve or WW abilities.
Edited by Vaelen on December 23, 2014 12:37PM2 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭S&B is *** in pvp, lets be real. There is a reason so many people flock to it while wearing light armor. Dont even try to lie here either, because the mitigation is just unreal and the bonus from light armor is even greater with the ability to block cast (broken mechanic).
since they want this game to be a rock paper scissors method, we need more ways to drain stamina faster. The solution is simple and will kill two birds one stone. The first bird is infinite blocking and taking laughable damage (unless jumped by 10+ people).
1) Make frost drain stamina and make lightning drain magicka. This adds risk vs reward to BOTH S&B users and staff users.
2) Doing the above will make fire not as appealing as it is since currently it is the go to staff (i use lightning screw fire unless on my fire mage). Maybe it will make it so people use fire and a different element as off weapon.
@ZOS this idea is something you should look into doing seriously. the snare from frost is a joke and the damage reduction from lightning is laughable. Not everyone wants to run caltrops just to drain stamina on perma block casters.
My idea is friendly for everyone.Edited by Gorthax on December 23, 2014 3:02PM3 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭S&B is *** in pvp, lets be real. There is a reason so many people flock to it while wearing light armor. Dont even try to lie here either, because the mitigation is just unreal and the bonus from light armor is even greater with the ability to block cast (broken mechanic).
since they want this game to be a rock paper scissors method, we need more ways to drain stamina faster. The solution is simple and will kill two birds one stone. The first bird is infinite blocking and taking laughable damage (unless jumped by 10+ people).
1) Make frost drain stamina and make lightning drain magicka. This adds risk vs reward to BOTH S&B users and staff users.
2) Doing the above will make fire not as appealing as it is since currently it is the go to staff (i use lightning screw fire unless on my fire mage). Maybe it will make it so people use fire and a different element as off weapon.
@ZOS this idea is something you should look into doing seriously. the snare from frost is a joke and the damage reduction from lightning is laughable. Not everyone wants to run caltrops just to drain stamina on perma block casters.
My idea is friendly for everyone.
Really like the ice/shock idea...Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭S&B is *** in pvp, lets be real. There is a reason so many people flock to it while wearing light armor. Dont even try to lie here either, because the mitigation is just unreal and the bonus from light armor is even greater with the ability to block cast (broken mechanic).
since they want this game to be a rock paper scissors method, we need more ways to drain stamina faster. The solution is simple and will kill two birds one stone. The first bird is infinite blocking and taking laughable damage (unless jumped by 10+ people).
1) Make frost drain stamina and make lightning drain magicka. This adds risk vs reward to BOTH S&B users and staff users.
2) Doing the above will make fire not as appealing as it is since currently it is the go to staff (i use lightning screw fire unless on my fire mage). Maybe it will make it so people use fire and a different element as off weapon.
@ZOS this idea is something you should look into doing seriously. the snare from frost is a joke and the damage reduction from lightning is laughable. Not everyone wants to run caltrops just to drain stamina on perma block casters.
My idea is friendly for everyone.
Really like the ice/shock idea...
Very Elderscrolls.
Me like.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭S&B is *** in pvp, lets be real. There is a reason so many people flock to it while wearing light armor. Dont even try to lie here either, because the mitigation is just unreal and the bonus from light armor is even greater with the ability to block cast (broken mechanic).
since they want this game to be a rock paper scissors method, we need more ways to drain stamina faster. The solution is simple and will kill two birds one stone. The first bird is infinite blocking and taking laughable damage (unless jumped by 10+ people).
1) Make frost drain stamina and make lightning drain magicka. This adds risk vs reward to BOTH S&B users and staff users.
2) Doing the above will make fire not as appealing as it is since currently it is the go to staff (i use lightning screw fire unless on my fire mage). Maybe it will make it so people use fire and a different element as off weapon.
@ZOS this idea is something you should look into doing seriously. the snare from frost is a joke and the damage reduction from lightning is laughable. Not everyone wants to run caltrops just to drain stamina on perma block casters.
My idea is friendly for everyone.
Really like the ice/shock idea...
Very Elderscrolls.
Me like.
Idk why ZOS did not make it that way in the first place; its simply how the elements have worked for quite some time in ES lore...
Fire does tons of damage: Frost drains Stamina, and shock drains magicka: it should have stayed that way in ESO2 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭S&B is *** in pvp, lets be real. There is a reason so many people flock to it while wearing light armor. Dont even try to lie here either, because the mitigation is just unreal and the bonus from light armor is even greater with the ability to block cast (broken mechanic).
since they want this game to be a rock paper scissors method, we need more ways to drain stamina faster. The solution is simple and will kill two birds one stone. The first bird is infinite blocking and taking laughable damage (unless jumped by 10+ people).
1) Make frost drain stamina and make lightning drain magicka. This adds risk vs reward to BOTH S&B users and staff users.
2) Doing the above will make fire not as appealing as it is since currently it is the go to staff (i use lightning screw fire unless on my fire mage). Maybe it will make it so people use fire and a different element as off weapon.
@ZOS this idea is something you should look into doing seriously. the snare from frost is a joke and the damage reduction from lightning is laughable. Not everyone wants to run caltrops just to drain stamina on perma block casters.
My idea is friendly for everyone.
and i dont use caltrops as a stamina drainer; any player that pays attention will simply leave the radius.1 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just read the title and the OP
my response
Please fix players inability to figure out how to use the combat system in this game.
Block is a really great game mechanic. All kinds of players seem to defeat other players, even ones who block a lot.
You would be better off asking for some sort of debuff attack that makes the target drain extra stamina while blocking, (make shield heavy) instead of whining about the design of the entire mechanic.
Edited by Domander on December 24, 2014 1:53PM2 -
Francescolg✭✭✭✭Permablocking is getting nerfed bigtime in 1.6. You'll still be able to permablock everything, but you will never gain any ultimate unless you use light attacks, skills don't count to gain ulti anymore unless its like carve or WW abilities.
So what will happen with a full supporter/healer (Templar) who does not use resto-heals but 1h/shield in 1.6? Does it mean no more ultimates at all (except BoL)?
I mean, already, purging and radiant aura do not regenerate any ultimate points at all but they are "much wanted" skills which have to be spammed sometimes (radiant aura every 6-7 seconds, purge even more often).
What's up with full support classes which mostly spam group buffs and use cleanse/purge? How do they regenerate ultimate points?
Is the full supporter/buffer/debuffer the "looser" when it comes to ultimate regen?
Isn't it a major design flaw to have "real supporters" not regenerate ultimates as fast as most Melee/DD-classes just spamming AoE skills with secondary effects!?
Excuse me if I'm wrong, imo skills like purge should regenerate much more ultimate, or I'll never take it again into my skill bar. We already have stress with it cause nobody wants to skill it --> and one of the reasons seems to be: getting no ultimate points at all for it
Edited by Francescolg on December 24, 2014 3:58PM1 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I just read the title and the OP
my response
Please fix players inability to figure out how to use the combat system in this game.
Block is a really great game mechanic. All kinds of players seem to defeat other players, even ones who block a lot.
You would be better off asking for some sort of debuff attack that makes the target drain extra stamina while blocking, (make shield heavy) instead of whining about the design of the entire mechanic.
the up-coming change to ult generation will likely decrease the use of the annoying perma block playstyle. Let's see how that turns out then make more suggestions.
until then, i will continue to roll out of perma block talon spammers and hope they at some point actually run out of mana:DEdited by Cody on December 24, 2014 6:55PM0 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just read the title and the OP
my response
Please fix players inability to figure out how to use the combat system in this game.
Block is a really great game mechanic. All kinds of players seem to defeat other players, even ones who block a lot.
You would be better off asking for some sort of debuff attack that makes the target drain extra stamina while blocking, (make shield heavy) instead of whining about the design of the entire mechanic.
Why does the community insist on burying their head in the sand and saying these are not the droids your looking for?Legacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South3 -
trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Actually, I'm not sure it's pretty ok in PVE. I could see people just holding their shield during a whole encounter, while casting some class abilities. Such a gameplay is not really exiting.AshySamurai wrote: »And stop thinking only about PvP. It's pretty ok in PvE.
Edited by trimsic_ESO on December 27, 2014 5:23PM0 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just read the title and the OP
my response
Please fix players inability to figure out how to use the combat system in this game.
Block is a really great game mechanic. All kinds of players seem to defeat other players, even ones who block a lot.
You would be better off asking for some sort of debuff attack that makes the target drain extra stamina while blocking, (make shield heavy) instead of whining about the design of the entire mechanic.
No the combat system is easy, here let me explain it: Hold block, proceed to cast skills. Or there is the other method which is the go to in pvp. Get a 1H&S and permablock cast. Game system is easy to figure out.
The issue is that while someone permablocks, even if they are not a tank, the damage reduction vs ways around it is out of control. I do not care what people say, those defending this "mechanic" are simply not wanting to have to make any kind of decision other than what gear they want and what skills work good with block casting.
Argue it all day long
That is what it boils down to. You want to grab a shield and block all day long in pvp thats fine. The risk vs reward aspect should kick in and make it so you cant use skills while blocking. Sadly, ESO supports block casting.
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risen1981✭✭Let's be real this mechanic is not healthy, in every other game i have played with similar mechanic there has always been a blockbreak!
If i remember correctly even in earlier ES games bash had that effect (could remember wrong here)
I blockbreak your block you get stunned 1-2sec, if i blockbreak while you're not blocking i get stunned instead. Would be such an easy fix..
During the latest ESO live i got my question answered about this issue, they said they are working on another block mechanic wich makes me assume this was never their intentions, but however it will not make it into patch 61 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just read the title and the OP
my response
Please fix players inability to figure out how to use the combat system in this game.
Block is a really great game mechanic. All kinds of players seem to defeat other players, even ones who block a lot.
You would be better off asking for some sort of debuff attack that makes the target drain extra stamina while blocking, (make shield heavy) instead of whining about the design of the entire mechanic.
No the combat system is easy, here let me explain it: Hold block, proceed to cast skills. Or there is the other method which is the go to in pvp. Get a 1H&S and permablock cast. Game system is easy to figure out.
The issue is that while someone permablocks, even if they are not a tank, the damage reduction vs ways around it is out of control. I do not care what people say, those defending this "mechanic" are simply not wanting to have to make any kind of decision other than what gear they want and what skills work good with block casting.
Argue it all day long That is what it boils down to. You want to grab a shield and block all day long in pvp thats fine. The risk vs reward aspect should kick in and make it so you cant use skills while blocking. Sadly, ESO supports block casting.
"permablock"
There is this resource in the game called stamina, players run out of it, especially if they're not set up to tank.
Argue that. all day long.
3 -
Beerbill✭✭✭@JLB is easy to claim that fixing block is dumbing down the game when you can't get hit from behind.
I just wanted to see if those block spammers builds would be so successful getting hit fully from behind, because of course that would require true skill to block right not hold a button and absorve everything.
Dumbed down is the current state of blocking right now.
Edited by Beerbill on January 9, 2015 5:51PM1