Vicious Serpent Set - Is it too strong?

xMovingTarget

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Medakon wrote: »

since you don't have any stamina issues(Atleast for Nightblades).

i like how you pointed that out! Got 5 pieces vicious now btw. Lucky drop yesterday. yeehaa!

Natjur

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Crafting sets should never be as good as end game dropped sets.

To fix crafting, they don't need to improve the crafting sets, but allow the crafters to do more changes to the dropped sets.

At the moment, all crafters can do is upgrade dropped sets.
If at Skill 40 crafters could change the trait stone on an item piece
If at Skill 50 crafters could change the armor type (light to heavy etc)

Then is might give crafters something to do, but most players have a maxed crafter or two. Crafting is super common and therefore worthless anyway.

Xsorus

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Well right now this set comes from a raid type setting where this set is actually used to progress. You don't need this set to complete any other content in the game and it doesnt have crit resist so it won't ever be used in pvp except by morons. So I don't think its unbalanced.

Blud

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

How did we get raiding in our Elder Scrolls?

SRIBES

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

In my opinion, no. Although it could be slightly slanted as one of my AD sorcs is stamina/crit surge carve based that uses Vicious Serpent + Masters greatsword+Warlock build. I think this set is great as it adds more room for stamina/magika DPS hybrid builds. I am an AoE Stamina DPS but magika single target DPS. Awesome set, is strong but for a good reason. Zos had an approach where they want to buff other skills/sets instead of nerf current things. So we may over time see other sets become more viable. I think a great aproach to make the light/heavy pieces more viable would be to also make it so they give resources back when killing for example light could get 150 magika back when killing blos. Heavy could get 150 magika/stamina/and health whenever they drop under 30% for that resource with a 10 second cooldown for each making heavy actully viable in more situations.

Khivas_Carrick

Truth be told, I don't think it's that OP, but I will say that I believe crafted sets should be able to compete or at least be on par with dropped sets, especially since "raiding" in this game isn't actually raiding in the traditional sense, but rather just doing a large dungeon time and again with limited lives, in which case the dropped gear is either on par with or slightly better than the crafted gear.

To that end, an idea I proposed long ago would be to have crafting and raiding together be the key to unlocking the best gear to use. To clarify, imagine crafting an amazing set, Hunding's Rage for example, or obtaining a dropped set, Vicious Ophidian for another example, and you either went through hell to craft it or you ran and ran to get it via raiding.

But neither are the best, both are equal to each other depending on you, the player. How do you obtain the best?

Well with classic old school/asian mmo gaming tropes, of course.

You take that super badass armor you earned one way or another and you go out and raid or pvp or explore or whatever it is your happy arse off, and then by some rare chance or extremely hard fought reward, obtain a unique crafting item, something you add to the armor set to make it change slightly but noticeably in appearance, but add some sort of massive, new and powerful effect, something to unlock only when a crafter of the highest possible skill applies it with said unique reward item.

Crafters get what they want, high end raiders get what they want, and everybody gets the end game gear chase that we're all so fond of.

Yay or Nay?

abigfishy

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

I think the exact balance is really important.

There needs to be end game gear that is worth looking for that is unique in some way and cool that people will want to get and you cannot get through crafting.

It should not be so insanely OP that is makes all the crafted sets look like rubbish and anyone that doesn't have it feel like a loser.

Good = Different. Cool. Slightly better in some ways.

Bad = Totally OP and a must have for EVERY character that uses that sort of equipment making all the other 100+ choices worthless.

Balance.

xMovingTarget

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well right now this set comes from a raid type setting where this set is actually used to progress. You don't need this set to complete any other content in the game and it doesnt have crit resist so it won't ever be used in pvp except by morons. So I don't think its unbalanced.

you can get every single piece with impen, so actually its great for pvp

Gyudan

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Except crafted weapons do have higher base damage and crafted armor does have higher base armor, which falls in line with exactly what was said.

Adding to that, even if you do have a specific drop set that you want and build around it is generally supplemented with a crafted set.

Yes you're right, crafted sets are great at filling the gaps left by the absence of specific pieces of dropped sets. What a great role indeed. If dropped sets had precise VR14 weapons I think they'd disappear altogether.

When you complete your item build, are you more:
- A: "Wow, Twilight is great, I'll definitely add it into my build."
- B: "Oh man, I hate that there's no wise mage staff, I'll have to use Twilight."
- C: "Whatever looks the best." (oh wait, that's dropped gear too)

As updates continue to be released and the item grind moves forward, new dropped sets will appear, eventually covering those gaps and ending crafted sets.

Imagine for a second that the situation was reversed: the dropped sets (warlock, footman, aether, vicious) become crafted sets and the crafted sets (hunding's, hist bark, twilight) become dropped sets. Which ones would you use? Which ones are undoubtedly "the best" sets?

Also, if you consider the crafted Seducer set to be a real option, consider this one:

Shinra

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

The dropped sets are the strongest sets you can get.

But isn't it fine that way? What reason would anybody have for going into sanctum if the best sets wheren't waiting for you there? Same with archive and Hel Ra. (Not really the same for vet dungeons anymore cause you go there for undaunted pledges as well)

but isn't it fine that way? I mean, you can get some good sets you wouldn't be able to craft from PvP as well. (Although I would add some new cool sets to PvP by now)

And by the way, the strength of crafted sets where never their superior bonuses, but the fact that you can do whatever you want with them. You want some more mana with your heavy armor tank? No problem, let me make you a heavy seducer set.

But actually, I don't like Vicious Serpent. It's more like a standard set. Weapon Crit, Weapon power, reduced stamina cost and the like. Some unique drops are far more interesting:




^^ps. couldn't find the better stone statue set from the orphidum.

Xsorus

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well right now this set comes from a raid type setting where this set is actually used to progress. You don't need this set to complete any other content in the game and it doesnt have crit resist so it won't ever be used in pvp except by morons. So I don't think its unbalanced.

you can get every single piece with impen, so actually its great for pvp

Is the trait random for that gear?

AlexDougherty

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

kijima wrote: »

Ophidida gear is still for the most part, hard to get. Not seeing a problem here, plus it's bound on pickup.

Problem is it gives players who don't need an advantage a massive advantage. Say we have two players who are equal, one in Ophidia gear, one in crafted gear, the guy in ophidia gear will win every time, no challenge for him. Unless you are going to seperate these players out from the rest, PVP is going to become a matter of who has the most Ophidia gear wearing players.

Yes I get that the end players want special gear, and I can even agree, but not to the extent that they become that overpowered. Even a combination of two sets of crafted gear can't keep up with the bonuses of that one set.

Valencer

Vicious Serpent doesn't seem that much stronger to me. Ignoring the on-kill effects (which honestly have limited usefullness and aren't even that powerful), it gives 8% weapon critical, reduced stamina costs and 22 weapon damage.

Hunding's rage gives 8% weapon critical, more stamina and 28 weapon damage.

Subtle effect: more stamina makes your stamina abilities stronger. whereas cost reduction doesn't have any effect on ability strength

Sure, the on-kill effects are interesting to have, but more movement speed for 3 seconds and some stamina returned isn't that much of a game changer. It does add some flavor to the set, which is good as it gives people a reason to actually want it (instead of just crafting hunding's).

And in any hypothetical 1vs1 in PvP, the on-kill effects have absolutely no use.

Swen_von_Walhallion

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Well from my side od look, i have no reason get this set for my dw stamina nb. Its not better then hunting rage as 5 piece set and 4set bonuses are onli little better then night mother set and eqvual to ashen grip i gues. With 74% wpn crit is worst lost wpn dmg from ashen grip then get another 4% to crit

Gyudan

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well right now this set comes from a raid type setting where this set is actually used to progress. You don't need this set to complete any other content in the game and it doesnt have crit resist so it won't ever be used in pvp except by morons. So I don't think its unbalanced.

you can get every single piece with impen, so actually its great for pvp

Is the trait random for that gear?

Random.

I'm not sure if all traits are possible though. I've only seen divines, infused, reinforced and impenetrable, but those are all that matter.

Drasn

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Gyudan wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Except crafted weapons do have higher base damage and crafted armor does have higher base armor, which falls in line with exactly what was said.

Adding to that, even if you do have a specific drop set that you want and build around it is generally supplemented with a crafted set.

Yes you're right, crafted sets are great at filling the gaps left by the absence of specific pieces of dropped sets. What a great role indeed. If dropped sets had precise VR14 weapons I think they'd disappear altogether.

When you complete your item build, are you more:
- A: "Wow, Twilight is great, I'll definitely add it into my build."
- B: "Oh man, I hate that there's no wise mage staff, I'll have to use Twilight."
- C: "Whatever looks the best." (oh wait, that's dropped gear too)

As updates continue to be released and the item grind moves forward, new dropped sets will appear, eventually covering those gaps and ending crafted sets.

Imagine for a second that the situation was reversed: the dropped sets (warlock, footman, aether, vicious) become crafted sets and the crafted sets (hunding's, hist bark, twilight) become dropped sets. Which ones would you use? Which ones are undoubtedly "the best" sets?

Also, if you consider the crafted Seducer set to be a real option, consider this one:

I think you are missing the point I was making. The point wasn't about Twilight's being better than aether or even crafted being better than dropped. The point was that most builds have at least 1 of each (crafted and dropped) working in tandum. Which, IMO, is how it should be.

I don't want all the best gear to be crafted. If that becomes the case then what is the point of running instances more than once? Have you ever played a game with a new toon that you wanted to run through an instance but couldn't because no one did it anymore?

One and done instances are terrible design ideas for longevity of a game. They become nothing more than wasted resources. That is what you are asking for when you want every piece of gear to be crafted. Which is what will happen if crafted becomes best over everything.

As it stands, you can go into any instance in fully crafted gear(except jewelry) and be competitive to those with all dropped or crafted/dropped mix.

Crafting in this game takes absolutely no effort at all and you should be happy that the gear and set bonuses are as good as they are for the skill/resources required to obtain them.

TehMagnus

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

Ophidida gear is still for the most part, hard to get. Not seeing a problem here, plus it's bound on pickup.

Problem is it gives players who don't need an advantage a massive advantage. Say we have two players who are equal, one in Ophidia gear, one in crafted gear, the guy in ophidia gear will win every time, no challenge for him. Unless you are going to seperate these players out from the rest, PVP is going to become a matter of who has the most Ophidia gear wearing players.

Yes I get that the end players want special gear, and I can even agree, but not to the extent that they become that overpowered. Even a combination of two sets of crafted gear can't keep up with the bonuses of that one set.

Except if the two players are equal they can both clear Sanctum and get their gear. If the PVE player managed to clear Sanctum then he should have a reward that compensates the difficulty of the instance and the money spent (~100 potions for every run) and yes it should be better than the rest.

The only thing Zenimax needs to do to restore balance is allow us to sell the gear we drop in Sanctum. People doing PVP and getting PVP legendary items can sell most of them (at least armor gear). PVE players should be able to do the same, prices would be high at first then lower and we would finally not loose money when raiding. And PVP players who aren't doing sanctum can also get their hands on the loot.

WhiskyBob

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

magnusnet wrote: »

The only thing Zenimax needs to do to restore balance is allow us to sell the gear we drop in Sanctum. People doing PVP and getting PVP legendary items can sell most of them (at least armor gear). PVE players should be able to do the same, prices would be high at first then lower and we would finally not loose money when raiding. And PVP players who aren't doing sanctum can also get their hands on the loot.

Decide on one:
- Nerf Sanctum sets and make them sellable
- Keep current stats on Sanctum sets and make them BoP

Imagine this:
- You are running a daily pledge, your tank has full sanctum set. V14. Awesome. Then he asks you what a "roll dodge" is or "how do i break free" while you are still in your Hist Bark, looking poor, facepalming at the universe.

Potions you have to buy or make is not wasting money, its buying yourself a chance to get some awesome loot. Thats it.

Gyudan

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Decide on one:
- Nerf Sanctum sets and make them sellable
- Keep current stats on Sanctum sets and make them BoP

Imagine this:
- You are running a daily pledge, your tank has full sanctum set. V14. Awesome. Then he asks you what a "roll dodge" is or "how do i break free" while you are still in your Hist Bark, looking poor, facepalming at the universe.

Potions you have to buy or make is not wasting money, its buying yourself a chance to get some awesome loot. Thats it.

Wait ... I thought tanking only required holding block and taunting every 12-15s.
(sorry)

I agree that raiding Sanctum is "costly" given the current price of potions and good flowers. The same applies to all somewhat competitive content though. PVP requires tri-pots and speedrun AA/HR require crafted potions as well. All serious endgame players have to either buy consumables or spend some time harvesting.

AlexDougherty

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

magnusnet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

Ophidida gear is still for the most part, hard to get. Not seeing a problem here, plus it's bound on pickup.

Problem is it gives players who don't need an advantage a massive advantage. Say we have two players who are equal, one in Ophidia gear, one in crafted gear, the guy in ophidia gear will win every time, no challenge for him. Unless you are going to seperate these players out from the rest, PVP is going to become a matter of who has the most Ophidia gear wearing players.

Yes I get that the end players want special gear, and I can even agree, but not to the extent that they become that overpowered. Even a combination of two sets of crafted gear can't keep up with the bonuses of that one set.

Except if the two players are equal they can both clear Sanctum and get their gear. If the PVE player managed to clear Sanctum then he should have a reward that compensates the difficulty of the instance and the money spent (~100 potions for every run) and yes it should be better than the rest.

I actually do agree it needs to be better than regular gear, but for me it's a matter of degrees, this set just feels a bit too powerful. Yes I know a number of them are only active when you defeat another player, but it still feels too good to be balanced.

TehMagnus

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

WhiskyBob wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

The only thing Zenimax needs to do to restore balance is allow us to sell the gear we drop in Sanctum. People doing PVP and getting PVP legendary items can sell most of them (at least armor gear). PVE players should be able to do the same, prices would be high at first then lower and we would finally not loose money when raiding. And PVP players who aren't doing sanctum can also get their hands on the loot.

Decide on one:
- Nerf Sanctum sets and make them sellable
- Keep current stats on Sanctum sets and make them BoP

Imagine this:
- You are running a daily pledge, your tank has full sanctum set. V14. Awesome. Then he asks you what a "roll dodge" is or "how do i break free" while you are still in your Hist Bark, looking poor, facepalming at the universe.

Potions you have to buy or make is not wasting money, its buying yourself a chance to get some awesome loot. Thats it.

As I said, I think it's fair that the people spending hours running the hardest instances can get their hands on good loot. It's thus equally fair that the guy spending hours analyzing the market and earning money can use that money to buy the sets the people who spent hours raiding get. It's time, it's investment and it should be rewarded.

If you're running a daily pledge and your tank with full sanctum set can't break free or roll dodge then even if he has full sanctum legendary set he will still suck compared to the guy in Hist Bark. Really don't see where the problem is. If the guy in Hist Bark wants the sanctum gear (since I suppose you mean he deserves it more), he just has to go get it or buy it and thus work hard for it ^^.

So no nerf on sanctum or anything and make all trial gear BOE . That way everybody is happy! (Except raiders who think that "noobs" shouldn't be allowed to equip the best gear in the game because they didn't loot it by themselves which I can understand but as long as I'm making doe, I don't care).

Xsorus

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Gyudan wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well right now this set comes from a raid type setting where this set is actually used to progress. You don't need this set to complete any other content in the game and it doesnt have crit resist so it won't ever be used in pvp except by morons. So I don't think its unbalanced.

you can get every single piece with impen, so actually its great for pvp

Is the trait random for that gear?

Random.

I'm not sure if all traits are possible though. I've only seen divines, infused, reinforced and impenetrable, but those are all that matter.

If that's the case it's a really good pvp set. Itd be good for Zerg bombing on a dual wielder. 1v1 the fights won't come down to that gear set. It's the best bow nightblade set though. I still prefer Kynes kiss on my dk though for bow

xMovingTarget

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well right now this set comes from a raid type setting where this set is actually used to progress. You don't need this set to complete any other content in the game and it doesnt have crit resist so it won't ever be used in pvp except by morons. So I don't think its unbalanced.

you can get every single piece with impen, so actually its great for pvp

Is the trait random for that gear?

Yes. But for vicious ophidian it seems to only drop either divines or impen. 3 out my 5 pieces have impen so far. rest divines.
It only drops with either of this traits for the others in my guild.

magnusnet wrote: »

The only thing Zenimax needs to do to restore balance is allow us to sell the gear we drop in Sanctum. People doing PVP and getting PVP legendary items can sell most of them (at least armor gear). PVE players should be able to do the same, prices would be high at first then lower and we would finally not loose money when raiding. And PVP players who aren't doing sanctum can also get their hands on the loot.

Pls Magnus. No. The Serpent sets are unique. therefor not tradeable. Otherwise its no challenge at all to get it. ppl will just buy it and they are done. And again dont see a point to do the content. Same happened when regular trailsets were made tradable for a short amount of time. It has to be a reward for ppl that actually do the hard content. Not for the players with the biggest purse.

Gyudan

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well right now this set comes from a raid type setting where this set is actually used to progress. You don't need this set to complete any other content in the game and it doesnt have crit resist so it won't ever be used in pvp except by morons. So I don't think its unbalanced.

you can get every single piece with impen, so actually its great for pvp

Is the trait random for that gear?

Yes. But for vicious ophidian it seems to only drop either divines or impen. 3 out my 5 pieces have impen so far. rest divines.
It only drops with either of this traits for the others in my guild.

Not for me, I've got an infused chest and reinforced boots!

xMovingTarget

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Gyudan wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Well right now this set comes from a raid type setting where this set is actually used to progress. You don't need this set to complete any other content in the game and it doesnt have crit resist so it won't ever be used in pvp except by morons. So I don't think its unbalanced.

you can get every single piece with impen, so actually its great for pvp

Is the trait random for that gear?

Yes. But for vicious ophidian it seems to only drop either divines or impen. 3 out my 5 pieces have impen so far. rest divines.
It only drops with either of this traits for the others in my guild.

Not for me, I've got an infused chest and reinforced boots!

Lucky you. my guildies and me only got impen/divines so far. Out of like 10 clears. Well, more farming sanctum then to get the right traits. good to know to be able to get infused too

Nihil

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Natjur wrote: »

Crafting sets should never be as good as end game dropped sets.

To fix crafting, they don't need to improve the crafting sets, but allow the crafters to do more changes to the dropped sets.

At the moment, all crafters can do is upgrade dropped sets.
If at Skill 40 crafters could change the trait stone on an item piece
If at Skill 50 crafters could change the armor type (light to heavy etc)

Then is might give crafters something to do, but most players have a maxed crafter or two. Crafting is super common and therefore worthless anyway.

I have to "disagree" with your first statement, crafting sets should be as good as dropped sets BUT they should be harder to obtain then they currently are(even needing specific materials to make it as good, or requiring the crafter to go into the dungeon to make the set). Crafting in most games become obsolete fast due to the mentality that it has to be weaker then drop sets. Then the game developers start throwing it as a prerequest to make BoP gear (which I don't agree with) just to try and keep crafting relevant.

And their is currently no one who has a "max" crafter, A crafter is not based on his level in this game but more on how many traits they know. It currently takes ~ 6 months to learn 9 traits in a specific armor type, so it would take a year (so earliest would be in april) that some one would know all the traits on every piece of armor (on one character). That being said, they didn't really promote the learned traits as well as I hoped for the crafting stations. I would like to see some crafted stations that require so many known traits to be able to craft their, and give better synergies to the 8 + trait sets.

Danzy

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

What I think should be changed is the new aether and the new eternal yokeda sets because they are still meh.

Nihil

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

WhiskyBob wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

The only thing Zenimax needs to do to restore balance is allow us to sell the gear we drop in Sanctum. People doing PVP and getting PVP legendary items can sell most of them (at least armor gear). PVE players should be able to do the same, prices would be high at first then lower and we would finally not loose money when raiding. And PVP players who aren't doing sanctum can also get their hands on the loot.

Decide on one:
- Nerf Sanctum sets and make them sellable
- Keep current stats on Sanctum sets and make them BoP

Imagine this:
- You are running a daily pledge, your tank has full sanctum set. V14. Awesome. Then he asks you what a "roll dodge" is or "how do i break free" while you are still in your Hist Bark, looking poor, facepalming at the universe.

Potions you have to buy or make is not wasting money, its buying yourself a chance to get some awesome loot. Thats it.

This mentality confuses me actually. To the best of my knowledge Raiding is the only type of playing style that sports BoP gear, (not sure if all the PVP gear is BoE but I know a lot of it is, will have to check it when I get home).

Creating gear that are BoP will also not stop players who "don't know how to play" from getting the gear. Guides will be written, people will learn dungeons to a point where they won't need the maximum amount of spots to complete the dungeons, then if there is a market for the drops they will sell spots in the raid. (look at Tera and quill farming / farming the raid Kelsaik (spelling?) Nest back when those were important, don't know any more).

The concept of BoP is mostly due to players feeling cheated that their hard work could be bought, but what it also does is limit the market. Honestly I haven't sold or felt the need to even attempt to sell crafted gear (potions or otherwise) cause there is nothing in the market that really is enticing. BoP (imo) should be very limited on how it is implemented, you can have two sets of similar gear and have a weaker version be BoE and still have a slightly better one (slightly higher armor/ slightly better enchants, or a special enchant that isn't drastically better) being BoP, but currently that is not the case.

Jack-0

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Stamina builds need love, this is a tiny bit of love and a step in the right direction, so I answered no.

omy_mkeb17_ESO

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Definetly not overpowered:

I have a very stong stamina build ( ~1.2k sustained dps on trial bosses long fights). I also know other people with strong stamina builds (up to 1.5k sustained dps on trial bosses). WE all came to 1 conclusion: if u have the correct build and know how to play u'r build, as a stamina build, u never run out of stamina, wich makes:

-3 pieces bonus not necessary
-5 pieces bonus (the stamina on kill part) not necessary and completely useless during boss fights.

So the real bonuses for this set are: 8% crit and 22 weapon power. Hunding's rage wins any time.

Ps: I have the set and i'm using it cuz it looks kool, but what i said is viable without this set.