Vicious Serpent Set - Is it too strong?

Gyudan

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

timidobserver wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

-To get hunding's rage all you have to do is go on a guild store, buy an item, and click research 6 times over the period of a few weeks.

-To get 5 pieces of vicious ophidian, you have to spend quite a while getting through Sanctum Ophidia and then quite a while longer doing it again and again until you get the pieces you need.

In other words, crafting is easy and the current highest-end raid gear, from content that 98% of the game population probably can't even come close to finishing, should be better than it. There would be no reason to do any endgame content if you could just go and craft better gear.

The perks for crafting are that you can get it when you want it even if you have to buy it from someone, put whatever style you want on it, and whatever trait you want it, no RNG at all. Being better than everything else is not a perk that should apply to crafted gear.

What will be the next item grind then?

When the next content part is released, it will add even better sets to force you to abandon your current OP gear.
Crafted sets will remain exactly the same, as they have been since June. The difference will just keep increasing until crafted gear completely disappears from the "decent" builds.

Eh, compare the amount of people wearing crafted sets versus Sanctum Ophidia sets. At the point that most people are wearing Sanctum Ophidia gear and nobody is wearing crafted gear, we can talk.

Also, the Twice-Born star set was released well after June.

Eh, compare the amount of people wearing Sanctum Ophidia sets versus Twice-Born Star sets. At the point that most people are wearing Twice-Born Star gear and nobody is wearing Sanctum Ophidia gear, we can talk.

You can get TBS for a fraction of what Healer or Footman are selling for. I'm not even going to mention Warlock here. Please tell me again how this set made crafted gear more competitive, nobody's using it.

More and more players will complete sanctum and crafted gear will become more and more useless. The road ahead for crafting is currently heading towards a ditch.

redspecter23

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

I voted yes, it's too strong. But I feel that is only in relation to other stamina options. I think all sets should be close in power level, whether it's crafted, dropped or dropped in hard content.

Stamina builds do need help still, but I don't think it should come in the form of an all powerful set that eclipses and obsoletes everything else.

Making a set rare or hard to get does NOT make it balanced powerwise. It just means you're either overpowered if you have it and underpowered (useless) if you don't. You don't get to average those two options out and call it balanced. It creates a situation where if you're a stamina user, you need this set for endgame or you get the boot, furthering the divide between the haves and the have nots.

I'm not necessarily against the power level of this set IF there are other comparable options, which currently is not the case. On a scale of 1 to 10, this ranks a 15 and Hunding's Rage, the likely next best option is a 4.

Aeratus

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

xMovingTarget wrote: »

I´m at 4/5 vicious Ophidia. When i get the fifth piece i will consider going on stamina with my Main DK. Its that good. And it also looks cool. Best looking Medium Set so far!

Actually, the set's model is the same as the old http://eso-fashion.com/way-of-air/

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

I'm a Stamina heavy hybrid build and I think it's too OP..

Iduyenn

I didn`t Vote, but imho the legendary craftet items should have an upgrade too. (Like 2 times 3 and 5 piece bonus).
And if you think upgrading to legendary is too easy... just implement some additional Upgrade-possibility for crafted items.... dah!

xMovingTarget

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Aeratus wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

I´m at 4/5 vicious Ophidia. When i get the fifth piece i will consider going on stamina with my Main DK. Its that good. And it also looks cool. Best looking Medium Set so far!

Actually, the set's model is the same as the old http://eso-fashion.com/way-of-air/

I know. lazy designers just copy pasterinhoed Yokuda style sets (Light armor looks same as Martial Knowledge and heavy looks same as Fire set. -.-

It still looks awesome. The medium set that is.

Gyudan wrote: »

More and more players will complete sanctum and crafted gear will become more and more useless. The road ahead for crafting is currently heading towards a ditch.

You still need fill ups. and theres the crafting. I dont see a problem with this afterall. Its not new. Standard Aether set is also OP considering what yes voters state here. Nobody complained about that.

Most people probably just say its OP because they dont see a way to get it themselfs. I bet if this would drop in AA Normal mode less ppl would complain. Zenimax wanted to reward us with powerful new sets with Sanctum Ophidia. And they did. except that terrible infallible Aether and new Yokeda. Vicious Ophedia is the only really usefull set you can get there.

By taking this away you just get one thing done, you kill the last motivation for people to clear Sanctum. Most Raiders go raid for gear. If every person can get the best stuff by sitting on their buttocks doing nothing while they wait for a research to complete, many ppl would consider that as a fail.

ESO is still a MMO game. In no way should a crafter be able to craft better gear than you can obtain while doing hard stuff like raids with high difficulty. TBH, i wouldnt want to play a game like that.

Only option would be to drop crafting recipes for that armor. But even then it would need to be bound on pickup, ecen the crafted item. So it wouldnt make a difference. They wanted it to be unique and special for Players that complete Sanctum Ophidia. And i dont see a big deal with that. Even if everybody would be able to finish it right away.

Its still like 5xVicious, 3/4xAshengrip or something. Now everybody wears 5x hundings instead. Doesnt make a difference. Still same kinda setup. Except you can just be lazy and get crafted hundings for way less effort.

Its good as it is. Just the aether and yokeda out of sanctum needs to be looked at by the dev team that is in charge of these items. They are bad compared to standard sets from AA and HR. Nobody would take em on over the "old" sets.

Look what you made me do. This is my longest ever post in my entire Internet History!

GamerzElite

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

It is overpowered, but see how hard to get this. So If someone try hard to get this set, then he is eligible to get this set.

Sord

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

Soon every bonus line will have double bonuses just to keep topping the next set. Kind of redonkulous imo. Sure make it a little better but 2 lines with double bonuses is a little over kill.
Edit: I also want to state that gear like this also really puts a huge gap on the pvp field. It would be one thing if V14 all decked out folks where in a separate battle field but you got people that can be lvl 10 up to V7 or so that have no way to compete against people with gear like that, at that point what is the point. It would be another if people could craft new sets that could match that, plus before the game came out they said we would always be able to craft the best gear in game that hasn't been true for a while, other than making something legendary.

heng14rwb17_ESO

Do not npc the vicious serpent set.
I repeat.

DO NOT NPC any of the gear from the vicious serpent set !!!

xMovingTarget

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Gyudan wrote: »

Only stamina PVPers will still use crafted gear to keep the Impenetrable trait.

I forgot about this. The traits from this sets are random on drop. 3 of my 4 pieces are Impenetrable already. so you can farm full vicious set with impenetrable if you have time and patience and a decent raid group

killedbyping

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

This is actualy the only really good medium armor set in game right now.

Even then, i dont think any1 would use more then 3-4 pieces of that set, because this stamina regen and move speed on kill bonuses is a joke and weapon damage at 5 items are less then Hunding's Rage bonus.

Actualy, this is exactly what i expected from End game Top Raid loot.
Too bad Light Armor version are not nearly as good and actualy looks pretty much useless compared to regular Aether set (cant confirm bcoz i wasnt lucky to loot a single piece yet, but people say that new and old aether doesnt stack which make it even more useless coz you cant even stack 3 + 2 for more spell crit atleast).

Speaking of Enchants.. why you call Vicious Serpent set overpowered ? ANY set which come from Serpent or Weekly have enchants with greater power then any item you can craft.

P.S. Still remember those words "Crafted items will always be better then loot"

xMovingTarget

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

killedbyping wrote: »

P.S. Still remember those words "Crafted items will always be better then loot"

Its still better you cant just craft and then just relax over it.
Would make the game very boring if it would.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

I have a crafter army, wear nothing but what it makes and I voted No. I prefer Hundings Mother for my NBs. Now jewelery is another thing I have not really worked out.

GamerzElite

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

xaraan wrote: »

yes, it does.

I want it.

Then spend time in Sanctum..

Drasn

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

The only things useful on that set for end-game content are the 8% Weapon Crit, the 8% redux, and the 22 Weapon Damage.

By comparison, Hunding's gives the same Weapon Crit, more Weapon Damage, and max stamina over stam redux.

For PVP the 200 stam gain on kill is decent, but not game breaking.

The set is not overpowered, it's just that many other stam dps sets are lackluster.

NadiusMaximus

Some comments here really irk me because they come off as being the only reason to play a mmo is the gear search. Why not make endgame gear completely craftable and let us run content for the story.

I could never understand this, but people complain about the grindyness of games, but in the same breath ask more more grinding.

Every single piece of gear in this game should be craftable, all of it. The best pieces should take 100times the resources and be only available to master craters. The items of course being bound to maker.

s7732425ub17_ESO

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Can someone please post pics of the light armor and heavy armor hard mode Sanctum sets?

Valencer

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Some comments here really irk me because they come off as being the only reason to play a mmo is the gear search. Why not make endgame gear completely craftable and let us run content for the story.

I could never understand this, but people complain about the grindyness of games, but in the same breath ask more more grinding.

Every single piece of gear in this game should be craftable, all of it. The best pieces should take 100times the resources and be only available to master craters. The items of course being bound to maker.

I personally also like running content for the story and experience, but let's not kid ourselves. If very difficult content like Sanctum Ophidia only had the story going for it, not many people would bother putting in the effort.

Hell, why put in any effort to form a raid group for any of the trials if the only purpose is the story? Especially after the first time through it? They'd have to lower the difficulty significantly to encourage people to just experience the story. PUGs wiping over and over just for a story? Not going to happen.

And then we'll also end up with a very stale game, where most of the difficult content gets avoided or only played once by 99.9% of the playerbase, because there's no reward which helps their character in any significant way. For a game with a longer life cycle, like a MMO, that's a death sentence.
Bottom line is that in MMOs, and probably also games in general, difficulty needs to get rewarded, or people will choose the easy way out.

If the best gear in the game can be crafted with the click of a button we'll end up with a very shallow game, considering how ridiculously easy crafting already is. People will play until they can reach the pinnacle of character progression with the click of a button and then they have nothing left to do.

Ideally, crafted gear should be an alternative to what you can loot... maybe slightly weaker than what you can obtain in the hard endgame content. I think a large part of what crafting is missing right now is jewelry. The 3 missing set item slots really hurt.

For the record: I almost exclusively use crafted gear

s7732425ub17_ESO

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Can someone please post pics of the light armor and heavy armor hard mode Sanctum sets?

I'm going to keep bumping this till we get pics!

Drasn

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Some comments here really irk me because they come off as being the only reason to play a mmo is the gear search. Why not make endgame gear completely craftable and let us run content for the story.

I could never understand this, but people complain about the grindyness of games, but in the same breath ask more more grinding.

Every single piece of gear in this game should be craftable, all of it. The best pieces should take 100times the resources and be only available to master craters. The items of course being bound to maker.

Because most players will only go to a dungeon a couple of times(if that) if all they get from it is story. Congrats you just made content with a short expiration date.

On the other hand, players trying to complete high end sets will run the dungeons over and over until they get the set they want.

It's all about artificial extension of time needed to BiS.

And to your comment about master crafters, seriously? It takes a couple hours(or less) to go from 1 to 50 in any of the crafts. Even enchanting($$$).

xMovingTarget

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Can someone please post pics of the light armor and heavy armor hard mode Sanctum sets?

I'm going to keep bumping this till we get pics!

It will be the same as the normal mode ones. just a bit more armor and betters enchantments(glyphs).

Blud

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

OP -- It's meant to get people to farm for gear and keep doing the repeatable content. It's what just about all mmorpgs eventually revolve around at their "endgame." Rest assured, this will only be bis for so long before a new tier comes out. You know how it will go from there.

kijima

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Ophidida gear is still for the most part, hard to get. Not seeing a problem here, plus it's bound on pickup.

Gyudan

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Can someone please post pics of the light armor and heavy armor hard mode Sanctum sets?

I'm going to keep bumping this till we get pics!

Light set: Not particularly good since 5 pieces are needed to reach the second 4% spell critical and heavy attacks aren't really used by mages other than healers. It's still better than crafted stuff though.


Heavy set: Not a huge dealbreaker, just a good improvement of the basic set, especially for the time reduction on the statue phase. At least it can provide some welcome security in case the tank fails to dodge an insta-kill.


The crafting system:


_______________________________________________________________

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

And to your comment about master crafters, seriously? It takes a couple hours(or less) to go from 1 to 50 in any of the crafts. Even enchanting($$$).

Oh, do you mean that ESO's crafting system is lame and needs a complete revamp? Maybe that's something that should be addressed indeed.


Maybe you can remember this transcript where @ZOS_PaulSage answers questions about the crafting system. Yes, this dates back to end of beta.

Q: In end game on ESO, will the Crafting gear be equivalent or better then dungeon drops?

A: Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more… armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments.

Nope. Even without considering the sets, dropped sets get better raw stats (armor, enchantments) than crafted ones.

Q: Is the gear we create on par with the highest level gear we can get from drops?
A: Yes, or better.

Nice one Mr Sage!

Crafting possibilities haven't changed much since game release. Before Craglorn, there were only dungeon and pvp sets, but trials completely changed high level itemization. Back in May I was in a guild that specialized in 8-trait crafts, since it was something valuable at the time. Now 6 months later, almost all those players have left. It's not too hard to guess why ...

@ZOS_GinaBruno: please extend my sincere condoleances to the dev team in charge of the crafting system. It started well but couldn't keep up with item grindfest.

Blud

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

Gyudan wrote: »

Crafting possibilities haven't changed much since game release. Before Craglorn, there were only dungeon and pvp sets, but trials completely changed high level itemization. Back in May I was in a guild that specialized in 8-trait crafts, since it was something valuable at the time. Now 6 months later, almost all those players have left. It's not too hard to guess why ...

@ZOS_GinaBruno: please extend my sincere condoleances to the dev team in charge of the crafting system. It started well but couldn't keep up with item grindfest.

ZOS probably knows that most console players aren't going to be as interested in a deep crafting system. They are banking on the console release (literally), while we PC players are beta-testing the game.

Console players will mostly likely play this game more as a co-op type of Skyrim (probably what ZOS hopes, at least) and so giving them something to do -- farming gear with their friends -- will be the most profitable avenue of development for this game.

Gyudan

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

Blud wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

Crafting possibilities haven't changed much since game release. Before Craglorn, there were only dungeon and pvp sets, but trials completely changed high level itemization. Back in May I was in a guild that specialized in 8-trait crafts, since it was something valuable at the time. Now 6 months later, almost all those players have left. It's not too hard to guess why ...

@ZOS_GinaBruno: please extend my sincere condoleances to the dev team in charge of the crafting system. It started well but couldn't keep up with item grindfest.

ZOS probably knows that most console players aren't going to be as interested in a deep crafting system. They are banking on the console release (literally), while we PC players are beta-testing the game.

Console players will mostly likely play this game more as a co-op type of Skyrim (probably what ZOS hopes, at least) and so giving them something to do -- farming gear with their friends -- will be the most profitable avenue of development for this game.

Wow, this sounds sadly plausible.

KaneK899ub17_ESO

Yes, Vicious Serpent is too strong and should be closer to craftable sets.

Might be worth adding a tier system to crafted sets that progress up to dropped sets. This could allow dropped sets to be crafted using say, a specific mat dropped in the relevant dungeon. Give crafted items 3 tiers besides quality. First tier is entry-level, second tier is a 15% boost overall on the first tier, third tier is slightly below dropped. Each could could be equivalent at legendary to the next tier at purple. So a tier 2 legend set would be equal to a tier 3 purple set, etc. With the removal of VR it seems like a good time to tier the crafted sets differently beyond level/quality. Just an idea.

Drasn

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Gyudan wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Can someone please post pics of the light armor and heavy armor hard mode Sanctum sets?

I'm going to keep bumping this till we get pics!

Light set: Not particularly good since 5 pieces are needed to reach the second 4% spell critical and heavy attacks aren't really used by mages other than healers. It's still better than crafted stuff though.


Heavy set: Not a huge dealbreaker, just a good improvement of the basic set, especially for the time reduction on the statue phase. At least it can provide some welcome security in case the tank fails to dodge an insta-kill.


The crafting system:


_______________________________________________________________

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

And to your comment about master crafters, seriously? It takes a couple hours(or less) to go from 1 to 50 in any of the crafts. Even enchanting($$$).

Oh, do you mean that ESO's crafting system is lame and needs a complete revamp? Maybe that's something that should be addressed indeed.


Maybe you can remember this transcript where @ZOS_PaulSage answers questions about the crafting system. Yes, this dates back to end of beta.

Q: In end game on ESO, will the Crafting gear be equivalent or better then dungeon drops?

A: Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more… armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments.

Nope. Even without considering the sets, dropped sets get better raw stats (armor, enchantments) than crafted ones.

Q: Is the gear we create on par with the highest level gear we can get from drops?
A: Yes, or better.

Nice one Mr Sage!

Crafting possibilities haven't changed much since game release. Before Craglorn, there were only dungeon and pvp sets, but trials completely changed high level itemization. Back in May I was in a guild that specialized in 8-trait crafts, since it was something valuable at the time. Now 6 months later, almost all those players have left. It's not too hard to guess why ...

@ZOS_GinaBruno: please extend my sincere condoleances to the dev team in charge of the crafting system. It started well but couldn't keep up with item grindfest.

Except crafted weapons do have higher base damage and crafted armor does have higher base armor, which falls in line with exactly what was said.

Adding to that, even if you do have a specific drop set that you want and build around it is generally supplemented with a crafted set.

For instance:
Magicka DPS will run 4 piece wise mage(drop) and 4 piece twilights(crafted).

A tank will run 5 piece Footman(Drop) and 5 piece hist bark(crafted)

Healers will run Warlock/Healer(Dropped) and Seducer/Mara/Magnus(crafted)

Melee DPS will run Viper/Archers(Dropped) and Hundings/Ashen(crafted)

Hundings, Ashen, Seducer, Magnus, Willows, Twilights, Nightmother, Mara, and Hist Bark are all popular crafted sets used in tandum with dropped sets.

Personally I think it is better this way, with crafted + dropped being the best setups rather than all of one or the other.

The only changes I would like to see is at least 1 bow oriented crafted set to match some of the bow dropped sets, some crafted sets for stamina managment(like seducer/magnus/mara), and the ability to craft jewelry.

Medakon

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

I don't think its op at all, I been using stamina alot and if I compare that set to houndesrage I woulndt swap it since rage set give more crit and weapon dmg and this set only give you substains wich you don't need at all since you don't have any stamina issues(Atleast for Nightblades).

timidobserver

No, Vicious Serpent is fine and shouldn't be changed.

Yes, the highest-end raid gear in the game should be equal to something you can WTB in zone and get in 5 minutes for 1k-2k gold.