Two-Handed Axes And Maces Look Small And Dinky

Khivas_Carrick

And as the title suggests, they are otherwise completely unimpressive for what is supposed to be a weapon that takes two hands to use.

Anybody else agree that they should be bigger and more imposing in appearance?

@ZoS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌, if you two would be so kind as to comment with your thoughts on the matter.

Orchish

I feel the same way about shields. I have a big tanky warrior in full heavy steel and he's using a dinner plate as a shield.

TheBull

In general I feel ESO's weapons are spot on, but I do agree 2h maces and 2h axes a little bit on the small side too.

AlexDougherty

Two handed Axes and Hammers were not that much bigger than their one-handed counter parts, because a small increase in size makes double the mass.

Big two-handed Hammers like the Lucern Hammer were variations on Pole-axes, which in turn were modified spears. The hammer part in a Lucern Hammer was actually about the same size as a Mace/Hammer (yes, they were essentially the same thing) but it being on the end of a spear-type shaft made it look bigger.

The problem is Dungeons and Dragons made people think they should be huge, and WoW took it to extremes. The weapons in this game are actually fairly realistic (except they don't shatter or crack).

AshySamurai

Orchish wrote: »

I feel the same way about shields. I have a big tanky warrior in full heavy steel and he's using a dinner plate as a shield.

I have the same feeleing. When you entering Cyro, you can see on loading screen an orc holding shield. Damn, at the beginning I was expected shields like this.

Fafnisbane

Both two-handed weapons and shields are actually about the size they were historically.

Two-handed axes rarely had a haft larger than three feet, or at most four feet. And the head was close to the same size as a modern axe head.

Super-large shields did exist, but as armor developed, shields shrank. In the Middle Ages, by far the most common type of shield was the buckler, which is about 12-15" diameter, or only slightly smaller than the size of Nord-style shields in ESO. For instance: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckler_(Faustschild)#mediaviewer/File:Saint_Michael_and_the_Dragon.jpg

The size of weapons and armor in other games is ridiculously unrealistic. The developers seem to have made an aesthetic choice to keep things more grounded.

Rodario

Orchish wrote: »

I feel the same way about shields. I have a big tanky warrior in full heavy steel and he's using a dinner plate as a shield.

When I first started playing, I kind of expected high level Imperial shields to look like a scutum or parma. Apart from that, I am also disappointed with shield sizes in general.

I know imperial shields in skyrim looked kinda like in ESO and in Oblivion, they were round and small. Imperial armor in ESO, however, is closer to Roman legionaries' than in previous TES games, so I expected the same for their shields.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Fafnisbane wrote: »

The size of weapons and armor in other games is ridiculously unrealistic. The developers seem to have made an aesthetic choice to keep things more grounded.

I love all the two-handed weapon models in ESO. They are realistic for once, as opposed to the ridiculously huge (and totally unwieldable) weapons you see in other MMOs.

Thumbs way up to ZOS for their two-handers.

Some shields could be a little bigger. I'd like to see the Imperials get a read scutum.

AshySamurai

Fafnisbane wrote: »

Both two-handed weapons and shields are actually about the size they were historically.

Two-handed axes rarely had a haft larger than three feet, or at most four feet. And the head was close to the same size as a modern axe head.

Super-large shields did exist, but as armor developed, shields shrank. In the Middle Ages, by far the most common type of shield was the buckler, which is about 12-15" diameter, or only slightly smaller than the size of Nord-style shields in ESO. For instance: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckler_(Faustschild)#mediaviewer/File:Saint_Michael_and_the_Dragon.jpg

The size of weapons and armor in other games is ridiculously unrealistic. The developers seem to have made an aesthetic choice to keep things more grounded.

Well, noone asks unreal size like in other games.


But why not size like this?

Gilvoth

"Two-Handed Axes And Maces Look Small And Dinky"

yes, i do agree with you.
However! (daggers) in morrowind all the daggers were small size and looked correct and i want them to remain that way in eso because eso daggers look correct and perfect in size.
And, in skyrim the weapons were Way Too Large i hated the way they looked in skyrim.

Gilvoth

the Tower shields in morrowind were of perfect size as well.

come to think of it ... morrowind was perfect in every way imaginable. just copy paste morrowind and it will be perfect.
Vvardenfell

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

I like the two-handed weapons size, I like them not to be oversized, the shields on the other hand are on the Tad bit on the smaller side.. but I would rather them be on the smaller side than way big..

bedlom

Yeah shields, one handed swords look small imo.

Khivas_Carrick

I don't want them to be gigantic, but I'd like them to appear more dangerous and fantasy like.

OrphanHelgen

You guys are talking about the two hands being realistic and all.. So a person with tail can do flame damage with the weapon, that is fine.. but OH MY GOD pls don't make it a couple of cm larger then in real life... But portals and stuff.. yeah all fine.. :P :P :P :P :P... (irony here if you didn't noticed)

I have a great sword just because of this issue.. My muscle orc looks like a *** with an 2H axe.

firstdecan

AshySamurai wrote: »

Fafnisbane wrote: »

Both two-handed weapons and shields are actually about the size they were historically.

Two-handed axes rarely had a haft larger than three feet, or at most four feet. And the head was close to the same size as a modern axe head.

Super-large shields did exist, but as armor developed, shields shrank. In the Middle Ages, by far the most common type of shield was the buckler, which is about 12-15" diameter, or only slightly smaller than the size of Nord-style shields in ESO. For instance: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckler_(Faustschild)#mediaviewer/File:Saint_Michael_and_the_Dragon.jpg

The size of weapons and armor in other games is ridiculously unrealistic. The developers seem to have made an aesthetic choice to keep things more grounded.

Well, noone asks unreal size like in other games.


But why not size like this?

Shields the size of the Greek warriors you depicted were typically used to hide behind for ballistic assaults (arrows / spears). Shields that large were heavier and more cumbersome, and generally not as effective for mêlée as a smaller / lighter shield. As a previous poster mentioned, smaller shields were more prevalent for most fighters , at least until metal smithing techniques improved to the point where weapons were long enough and light enough to be used for both offense and defense.

Armor and shields, in and of themselves, never kept a fighter safe. It doesn't take much to aim for somewhere armor doesn't protect or can't protect, like anywhere you have a joint that needs to bend (difficult to hit with an arrow or spear, not difficult to hit with a sword / knife / axe). The armor and shield are used defensively, a fighter actively positions strong parts of the armor against incoming attacks.

As far as the weapon sizes go, they are appropriate. Generally speaking, larger / longer weapons were used in two specific situations:

1 - from a relatively immobile formation where the length of the weapon was the deterrent to infiltration.
2 - where cavalry would need to be dismounted

Outside of those two situations, too large of a weapon is a liability. Once your opponent gets inside your defense, you will be less reactive to threats and have less ability to threaten / counter attack.

Having said all that, this is a fantasy RPG, I really don't see how 'realistic' it needs to be. As long as the aesthetics don't become cartoonish I welcome a variety of shapes and sizes. TES games tend to be on the grittier side of the RPG spectrum of tones, and as long as the aesthetic keeps that tone I say let players look the way they want.

Animal_Mother

They look larger if you play as a bosmer.

WhiskeyDancer

I don't think anyone is playing ESO for the realism. It's all about the aesthetic for weapon size. When I grow dragon wings and leap in the air at my opponent the tiny two handed axe is a bit underwhelming.

dodgehopper_ESO

The way shields are held isn't exactly correct, particularly with respect to a Roman escuto. I'd also like to see polearms/spears and short spears in the game. Its not like its without possibility, as this would give an interesting direction to develop the game. If you were to give an axe or the like greater length then it is though, you'd want something a bit thinner and lighter in build. (Take a look at some of the weapons the Swiss guard have, or the Beefeaters or the like).

Morridune

everything looks large when you're a Bosmer

MadFlower

I AGREE, just the other day I made a Templar that was going to main two handed axes five minutes later I had to get a sword, as much as I love axes in this game two handed axes are small and don't give you the feel that it's heavy and requires two hands to use

Orchish

Fafnisbane wrote: »

Both two-handed weapons and shields are actually about the size they were historically.

Two-handed axes rarely had a haft larger than three feet, or at most four feet. And the head was close to the same size as a modern axe head.

Super-large shields did exist, but as armor developed, shields shrank. In the Middle Ages, by far the most common type of shield was the buckler, which is about 12-15" diameter, or only slightly smaller than the size of Nord-style shields in ESO. For instance: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckler_(Faustschild)#mediaviewer/File:Saint_Michael_and_the_Dragon.jpg

The size of weapons and armor in other games is ridiculously unrealistic. The developers seem to have made an aesthetic choice to keep things more grounded.

We are not asking for the huge axes and shields you see in other games. I simply want the same sized shields and weapons from previous TES games. The shields in Morrowind,Oblivion and Skyrim felt right.

Khivas_Carrick

Alright, let me put it this way for you guys.

1) To the people saying that the maces and axes hold realistic weapon sizes: Look at the Two-Handed Swords. Apart from the Ayeleid and barely Daedric versions, every single 2H sword in this game is gigantic and super fantasy imposed, yet extremely simple and elegant in it's design. It gives that feeling of being an imposing, formidable force of war, yet also retains a sense of realism, that a man could realistically swing this thing around and not pull his back out. In comparison, only the Breton and Barbaric Maces and absolutely none of the Axes (although Ayeleid, Dwemer, and Altmer gets close) has that same effect, none of them make you think that "Man, this is going to hurt!"

Also,

heinsjb14_ESO wrote: »

They look larger if you play as a bosmer.

Have you seen the Bosmer 2H Sword? It's easily the largest of them all. That thing is a BIGGIN`!


2) What I'm asking for isn't for weapons to feel like they're better fitting in WoW or Rift or TERA or any of that crap. No Anime Tropes here please, no no. What I'm asking for is a slight increase to the overall sizes of maces and axes to better match their sword/bladed siblings, because as they sit now they are as a whole, unimpressive, so much to the point that a VR14 Ax or Mace resembles closely a weapon a LV10 or Lv20 would wield, whereas the swords feel as if they match the level they are representing.

I know my Opening Post and following thread have been......less than spectacular in terms of detail and getting my thoughts and feelings across, but I do hope this helps clear things up for a number of people as well as those who must be made aware the most.

Blud

No, I don't agree. I like the size. It is more realistic. The weapons seem to have the right size and weight. Same with shields.

In fact, I went to a medieval fair in Germany recently and found the two handed weapons quite heavy. Have you ever held a Claymore or 2-H axe in real life? Or worn chainmail? I have and that [snip] is heavy.

I can't even imagine wearing a full suit of plate and fighting with a Claymore. Those dudes must have been in seriously good physical condition, if that's how they really fought.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Aeratus

Actually, the 2h maces/axes are already too big to be realistic.

Here's what a historical 2h mace looked like

Khivas_Carrick

Then with that knowledge and logic the Two-Handed swords should be shrunk down as well. Look at those things man, they're massive. Second, think about the world you're in. We have Lizard and Cat Folk running around, let alone multiple types of elves, with magic. Magic.

Magic, man.

It would not kill you or anyone else if the mace and ax size was slightly increased to make them appear more worthy of the hell and/or effort you went through to get them.

Blud

Size doesn't make them seem more worthy, to me. Obviously, that's a matter of perception.

So many games already have over-sized weapons. I'm glad that we have one game with a really awesome art-style and sense of perspective.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Personally I like them how they are, but it's really a moot discussion anyway, becaue there is no way they would be changed at this point. The only thing that could theoretically be done relatively quickly (and even that only assuming the engine makes this easy) would be scaling the entire model up.

Since the proportions of the models don't change by this, the results would be too thick hafts and much clipping, so this solution really isn't desirable. The alternative would be having somebody redo the entire line of models and textures piece by piece. There is absolutely zero chance of this happening at this point, the guys who did the models in the first place probably have been fired already anyway.

TL DR; regardless of how you may think about it, it simply isn't going to happen.

Khivas_Carrick

And you still seem to be stuck on the page of "Oh man, people want giant super weapons, screw those guys!" when it's really more like "2H Swords, all the one handers, bows, and staves scale really well, I wonder why 2H maces and axes don't either..."

Seriously, I do not, repeat,


DO NOT,

want WoW sized or styled weapons. That stuff is art, yes, but it's too artsy, too cartoony. I just want something that actually looks imposing and not something a trainee would use.

EDIT* Oh of course this isn't going to happen anytime soon, but good god it can happen later down the road.

Zeg0ta

2h axes and maces do seem to be bit small. I just really want a flail for my orc.

Darkeus

i think all 2h weps should be bigger and look more brutal.... some axes look like kid toys... rly its 2h wep that should blow your skull in 1 hit